Ask This Old House

Kevin

Today on "Ask This Old House"...

Nathan

I'm heading to Missouri to install some bypass doors for a pantry.

Joel

That's great. That's exactly what we were looking for.

Nathan

I'm glad you like it.

Ross

In "Future House," I'll show you how improvements to roof shingles can save you energy and make you more comfortable.

Richard

An automatic water shutoff valve can stop a flood dead in its tracks. I'll put a few of them to the test.

Kevin

So you really want me to cut it?

Yes. Kevin

Oh!

Richard

So now you can see.

Kevin

It's still flowing.

Richard

Right,

okay. Kevin

Is that expected?

Richard

It takes about 30 seconds to process it, but that 30 seconds is still -- Now, here it goes. Here it is. Here it is. See it?

Kevin

Whoa.

Okay. Kevin

Look at that.

Nathan

Hi, Joel.

Joel

Hi, Nathan. Welcome to Missouri.

Nathan

Thanks for having me. What do you got going on here?

Joel

Well, my wife and I live here with our four kids. And we love this neighborhood. They're large lots. All the houses are about the same, and, in fact, my in-laws live next door, and my parents live down the street, so it's nothing but a family thing, really.

Nice. Joel

But in terms of the house, we got a few projects going on, and we got one in particular we need your help with.

Nathan

Alright. Let's take a look.

Joel

Sure. Well, Nathan, welcome to the house.

Nathan

It looks great. Have you guys done a lot of work here?

Joel

We have. We've been here about seven years. Done a lot of work -- floors, et cetera. And we finally got to the kitchen this year. And then with all projects that start off small -- We had a small apartment-sized refrigerator. All we wanted was a bigger refrigerator, but we had double ovens here, and so that led to everything else.

Nathan

Okay.

Joel

New appliances, new countertops.

Nathan

Oh, beautiful. You guys do granite?

Joel

No, we didn't. This is actually laminate.

Nathan

Oh,

it looks great. Joel

Oh, great. But what we haven't gotten to yet is the pantry.

Nathan

Okay.

Joel

This used to be a laundry room, and we converted it to a pantry, and we've never really gotten a good way to close it off when we have guests.

Nathan

Yeah, you definitely want to do that. You want to close those ingredients off so they're not seeing everything you're cooking with, but with an opening like this, you have a few different options, so the first option, we could do a traditional hinged door that swings out. We could do a set of bifold doors that would have a track, and they would slide out, but I see you have a spice rack here, and I know that you won't be able to open those all the way.

Joel

Right.

Nathan

So maybe a bypass door would work great. There's a track mounted, two doors coming together. You can move them both to the left or the right, you know, have good access to all your ingredients.

Joel

That sounds like a good idea.

Nathan

One thing I noticed is you have lauan doors, and if you want to upgrade, I notice you have panel doors in the kitchen. Would you like to do lauan or maybe a raised panel for your sliding doors?

Joel

Well, we've never really gotten to the doors yet. We do want to update those, so if we're putting something new in, I would like to match what we got here.

Nathan

Alright, I'll get some materials and get started. Alright, these are the materials I picked up for you. I have two six-panel raised hollow-core doors.

They look great. Nathan

Nice doors. And I also have a bypass door kit bought in 6-foot length. But when I was measuring your opening, I noticed one thing.

Joel

What's that?

Nathan

You have a little bit of an irregular-size opening here. This is a 6-foot track. When I go back and forth, you can see you have two inches on one end.

Joel

But why does a two-inch gap matter?

Nathan

When we install bypass doors, we like to have about one inch of overlayment. That way, you can't see through the doors. If I install the track as is, when you push the doors left and right, you would have a two-inch gap right down the middle.

Joel

So how do we solve that?

Nathan

To solve it, I'm gonna add some 5/4 stock to either side of the jamb, and that'll pad it down the two inches we need.

Joel

Are we ready for the track?

Nathan

We're ready for it. Now that we have our jambs padded out, I actually added a little notch up here to receive a piece of trim, and that trim is gonna hide the track and also the top of the doors. Off of that notch, I have a line 7/8 back on either end, and that'll be the front of our track. Why don't you hold it up on that end? And we'll mark the holes. On your line?

Joel

Yep.

Nathan

Alright, let's mark the holes. You want to drill these holes up?

Yeah. Nathan

Alright. Alright, now that we have that tightened up, let's throw a level on it, see how it looks. Alright, so we're a little bit out. I think it's enough that we should loosen that right screw up and shim it a little bit. Good. Alright, now slide these cedar shims in. Now we'll tighten it back up and check it. Alright, that's good. Alright, let's put a few more shims in the center. Let's put a screw in there and check it again. Alright, Joel, take a look at this. These are the rollers that come in the kit. This one's for the front, and this one's for the rear. They'll screw right to the back of the door, and they'll hang up inside. We need to get a door height first, so the best way to do that, just take your front roller, tuck it up inside. And I'll measure from the floor to that slight bend. Alright, 79 1/2. I'll subtract a half inch for clearance underneath. We'll cut our door 79. These are gonna get mounted on an inch and a quarter in on either side. Alright, hook those on the rear fin. You in?

Joel

Yeah.

Nathan

Alright. This is the floor guide that comes in the kit. It's pretty simple. What it's gonna do is get mounted on the floor. The doors are gonna go in between, and it's gonna keep the doors separated so they don't rub on each other but also guide them along and help them stay plumb with the jamb. Now I'm gonna drill a hole with a Forstner bit, and then I'll put in a finger pull, and that'll make it much easier to open up the door. Last but not least, let's put in the trim. Alright, Joel, give it a try.

Joel

Alright. That's great. That's exactly what we were looking for.

Nathan

I'm glad you like it, but a little bit of homework. These come with a coat of primer, so if you putty the holes and add a fresh coat of paint, be good to go.

Joel

Well, thank you. This is exactly what we wanted. Nathan, thanks for coming to Missouri.

Nathan

Thanks for having me.

Kevin

Richard, we're talking water leak detection?

Richard

We are -- automatic water shutoff devices. We've been talking about this story for a long time, chasing it, because water damage is a big story in American homes, you know? And then when these things happen, they seem like they only happen when you're not there.

Kevin

You can have a leak at a toilet, underneath the sink, a bathtub, and, I mean, even the washing machines, when they come with shutoffs, we just don't use them.

Richard

So first generations had these little hockey pucks. And you put them, they would only communicate locally. But nowadays, all of these technology has an app and talks through the Internet, and the only difference between the two major categories is how they sense the leak. In either case, you're gonna have to install -- At the water main, you got to intercede, break that water main, put it in here. Here's one here and one right here.

Kevin

Yep.

Richard

So in this example right here, they have these sensors. Now, you can have more than 20 of these sensors, and you would put them near the washing machine, near the water heater, and the places where you would have some chance of a water leak.

Kevin

And so you have to have actual water, right? There's two little probes. If contact is made, that alarms.

Richard

It's battery-operated. It goes up to the Internet and goes right to this valve and shuts it off. Do you want to test one for me?

Kevin

Test it as in, like, make a leak?

Richard

We have full water pressure on this demo right here.

Kevin

Of course I want to make a leak.

Okay. Kevin

You kidding me?

Richard

I want you to cut this hose, cut the red one.

Kevin

So you really want me to cut it?

Yes. Kevin

You sure? I don't want to hear you, you know, complaining after I cut it. Ready?

Richard

Oh, don't -- Go ahead.

Kevin

Oh!

Richard

So now you can see, it goes down to that sensor.

Beep

Richard

Now it's gonna send a signal.

It's still flowing. Richard

Right, okay.

Kevin

Is that expected?

Richard

It takes about 30 seconds to process it, but that 30 seconds is still --

Beep

Richard

Now here it goes. Here it is. Here it is. See it?

Whoa. Richard

Okay.

Kevin

Look at that.

Richard

So now that is pretty good news if you were away from the building and this hose let go.

Kevin

So, you know, this is discouraging, right? So some people here think, "Well, that's no good," but the reality is, that's 30 seconds.

Richard

Oh,

yeah. Kevin

If this was three hours or three days, this is nothing.

Richard

In the house I grew up in -- I've talked about it before on-camera -- we had a washing-machine hose go on the second floor, and that house was never, ever the same. Water came down for a day.

Kevin

Yeah, I had a buddy whose kitchen sink when he was skiing.

And four days later... Richard

That's right.

Kevin

Yeah, so if this one senses sort of at a point of contact, okay, that's one category. What's the other category?

Richard

Well, this one has no sensors. You're dying to cut it, aren't you? So this one actually learns the building, learns how you use water. You know, it comes through here, and it sees what a typical shower is and it sees what a typical dishwasher is, and it learns the building. It learns the usage pattern in the building. But if it sees an anomaly, if it sees that all of a sudden there's just the equivalent of an open pipe, absolutely, that it's never seen before, it would then shut that water main off without any local sensors.

Kevin

So it's measuring, basically, flow. It gets used to what flow should be, and if flow starts doing something it shouldn't...

Absolutely. Kevin

Ooh, can we test this?

Kevin

You betcha, so let me take a minute. I'll get it set up, and we'll do it. Alright, so I got a new hose for you to cut, and now I've installed this valve back here to replace it. So this guy is literally learning, measuring flow, figuring it out?

Richard

Every second of every day, it sees usage patterns inside the buildings and learns the building and then decides if it sees something. So what I've got here, I've got it in away mode, 'cause it also, if you're gonna be away for a long time, it'll sense if anything is drawn. It'll know that there's a problem, and it'll shut it off. Okay?

Kevin

Alright. So same drill, right?

Richard

Yep.

Kevin

Just gonna snap this guy. And... Whoa! Look at that!

Richard

Okay, so with this, it doesn't have the sensor, so it's gonna take a little bit longer to sense. It could be up to a minute.

Kevin

The brain is measuring flow.

Richard

That's right. Yep.

Kevin

Starting to figure out something's wrong.

Richard

Yep.

Kevin

Still unsettling to see this amount of water

go into your house. Richard

Right.

Kevin

And even though that feels like a long time

and a lot of water... Richard

Yeah.

Kevin

...if this wasn't on here, the sensor, this could just keep going for hours or days.

Richard

Oh,

here it is. Kevin

Oh, look at that.

Richard

Here it is. Okay?

Kevin

Nice!

Richard

So now, phew!

Laughs

Richard

So there's something unnerving about water leaking in.

Kevin

So two different categories, a lot in each category, so many to choose from. Thoughts on picking one?

Richard

Whatever one you pick, good, just get one. Just get one, because it's really -- it's a great saver, and insurance companies love it because water damage is one of the biggest issues in a house.

Kevin

Very cool, Richard. Thank you.

Ross

If you could take a look down on the roofs of commercial buildings like shopping centers, warehouses, and office buildings, you'll probably noticed that most of the roofs are white, and with good reason. Commercial buildings often have white roofs to reduce the cooling load of that building, which makes it cheaper to operate and lowers its carbon footprint. Now take a look at houses. What do you see? Almost every roof has shingles that are black, dark gray, or brown. You'd almost never see a white roof on a house. The truth is, if homeowners were willing to install white shingles, they'd reduce their cooling load, but most people object to those aesthetics. What if there was a way to get the benefits of a white roof while maintaining the look of a traditional roof? I'm headed to an R&D facility that's developing just that. Hey, Todd.

Todd

Hey, welcome,

Ross. Ross

Glad to be here.

Todd

Looking forward to talk about solar-reflective shingles today.

Okay. Todd

And first, we're gonna start with some basics on sunlight. So sunlight is composed of a few forms of radiation, one being ultraviolet, which is a few percent.

Ross

Right, I mean, we all know ultraviolet. It's very destructive, causes skin cancer. It also degrades building materials.

Todd

Correct. Next is visible light, which is less than half.

Ross

Right, the colors that we see in the rainbow.

Todd

Yeah, and then the third is infrared light, which is a little bit more than half but carries a lot of the heat.

Ross

Right, I mean, that heat gets absorbed by those dark shingles, and it gets hot up there.

Todd

A dark roof in sunlight can get up to 180 degrees Fahrenheit, okay? And what we are trying to do is actually reflect some of that infrared light back and not absorb it into the house, and that's what we're trying to do with solar-reflective shingles.

Ross

Gotcha. Can I see some of the shingles?

Todd

Yes, I'll show you how we do it.

Ross

Alright.

Todd

So welcome to the lab, Ross.

Ross

This feels a lot like my college physics lab.

So you're right at home. Ross

Right at home.

Todd

One of the most important properties we're gonna speak about today is solar reflectivity, okay, which is a measure of how much of the sunlight is reflected back to the sky. It can range from zero, being pure black material, to 100%, being a pure white material.

Ross

So 100% would be everything being reflected back.

Gotcha. Todd

Correct. Okay. When you look at a standard shingle, this has a solar reflectivity of around 8% to 10%, okay? Pretty standard for a dark material. A black shingle can have around 3% to 5% solar reflectivity.

Ross

That's really low.

Very low. Ross

Okay.

Todd

When you actually design solar-reflective shingles, right, we designed these to have a solar reflectivity of about 20%.

Ross

So double -- more than double that.

Todd

Yes, more than double, has a dramatic impact on your roof.

Ross

Okay, it looks the same.

Todd

Yes, actually, we're able to get that solar reflectivity while maintaining these dark colors. Then we can take that one step further and actually use a lighter material blend but also a specially formulated granule to take that to a solar reflectivity of 40%.

So double that. Todd

Double that.

Ross

Wow, and definitely visually very different.

Todd

Yes, and again, a dramatic impact on the cooling of the roof.

Ross

Sure, okay. So how is it made?

Todd

Okay, so asphalt shingles are made with a couple of core ingredients, one being asphalt and the second being fiberglass. We actually use the asphalt and fiberglass mat to create this reinforced substrate, which then accepts our granules.

Ross

Gotcha.

Todd

For our granules, we use crushed rock, and we coat the crushed rock with colored pigments

to make colored granules. Ross

Got it.

Todd

We then take those colored granules and blend them together and deposit them on the surface to create our granule surface, which gives us the look of our shingle.

Ross

This process is the same whether you're making a conventional shingle or a solar-reflective one. The difference is, on the solar-reflective shingle, the granules have a reflective coating. This gives you the same overall look from the ground but more than doubles the amount of infrared energy being reflected. In order to boost that solar reflectivity even higher, though, Todd's team had to change the way they manufacture those granules.

Todd

We can actually start with the base rock, put our first white coating onto that base rock, what adds that highly reflective layer onto the rock. On top of that coating, we can add a colored coating with our pigments, right? Any infrared light that passes through the color coating will then reflect off of that white coating to give it that boost in solar reflectivity.

Ross

On a highly solar-reflective shingle, the coating on the granule is infrared-transparent, so infrared energy from the sun will pass through that colored coating, hit the white layer underneath, and reflect much if its energy back to the sky. It's this multilayer coating that allows for significant gains in solar reflectivity. Once they've developed the formula in the lab, it's time to prototype and test.

Todd

So Jen will use the heat gun to heat the asphalt in order to accept the granules hot.. And we do this under a timer in order to get the right heating profile on the asphalt substrate.

Ross

How long is that?

Todd

It's about 48 seconds. Jen will then take the granules and pour them onto the top of the asphalt substrate just to coat it, and then she'll use a weighted roller to roll the granules into the asphalt substrate. Jen will then shake off the excess granules, and then we put this into a press and press it hot under pressure for about a minute to ensure the granules are embedded in the asphalt substrate.

It's pretty precise. Todd

Yes. So now, Ross, we're gonna measure some of our samples to measure the solar reflectivity.

Okay. Todd

Okay? So what we have here is a solar reflectometer, and we'll put this on our first standard shingle. What it does is sends diffused light through the sample and then measures the reflection of that light back.

Ross

Yep,.08.

Todd

8%.

Ross

Alright.

Todd

And then we'll look at a solar-reflective shingle. So about 22%.

Ross

Okay.

Todd

Okay, and then we'll look at a highly reflective shingle. So this is about 44%.

Ross

Got it, and this is one that has the specialized coating?

Correct. Okay. Ross

Got it.

Todd

So this is one test we do, and let me show you some other tests we do, okay. So here in this lab, we actually do accelerated weather testing for building materials. Roofs in particular need to last a long time -- 20 to 30 years on the life-span of a roof under some pretty harsh conditions.

Ross

Yeah, I mean, roofs, you know, you got wind. You got rain. You got snow. You got hail.

Todd

Exactly, so we need to use tools to simulate those conditions to accelerate the testing 'cause it's unrealistic to test over 20 years. So we're gonna have Olivier prepare some samples of shingles. These tools actually have a number of features. This one uses UV lamps to simulate the intensity of the sun, two times the intensity of the sun at noon.

Ross

Oh, yeah, you can see it. Look at the blue light.

Todd

And this actually gives us that high intensity to really look at how UV will age different components of the shingle.

Ross

So the UV is actually degrading the shingle?

Todd

Yes, I mean, it's sunlight generating heat but also degradation over time.

Ross

So how long will a test like this run for?

Todd

With this testing, we're actually putting UV sunlight for about 48 hours on the sample. However, we can do various hours for more -- longer times. We'll do thousand of hours to simulate years of exposure.

Ross

Right, so this test is typically maybe days and potentially a month.

Todd

Yes, exactly,

or longer. Ross

Got it.

Todd

So while the UV lights are on, we're also heating the chamber, and we heat the samples up to about 140 degrees Fahrenheit. Then the lights are gonna come off. We're gonna actually put a mist onto the sample. That mist actually adds moisture to the sample as part of degradation, but also a thermal shock onto these samples they would experience in a natural environment to really get that realistic condition. Then after the spray cycle, the equipment's gonna have a heated water pan to actually put moisture or condensation onto the samples, which simulates similar to having dew onto a sample in the morning, actually, that moisture impact and moisture effect onto the sample.

Ross

Right, so you're adding relative humidity to the chamber.

Todd

Exactly, and after the first UV cycle, we then actually do a soiling test. We take the soiling solution, which consists of your normal pollutants -- dust, clay, and sediments. We actually put this into a pressurized chamber. We pressurize the chamber about to 20 PSI, and then we mist the solution over the sample, which provides that mimicking of the soiling in the natural environment. They go back into the UV chamber for another cycle, and then we can test for the aged solar reflectance

of the shingle. Ross

Gotcha.

Todd

And then beyond this testing, we do other standard tests for shingles, including fire classification, and these shingles are rated to Class A fire rating.

That's great. Todd

Right.

Ross

It's amazing to see the R&D you guys are working on on such a common building material, you know. What is the cost premium like for a technology like that?

Todd

So for basic solar-reflective shingles, it can be about a 10% premium over conventional shingles, but as you increase performance, a high-performance solar-reflective shingle

can be two times the cost. Ross

Got it. I mean, it's interesting because I used to live in Germany. When I worked there, we were studying how to basically absorb as much of the solar radiation as possible 'cause you were heating buildings. We were trying to do solar thermal collectors for hot water, and you guys are doing the exact opposite. You guys are trying to reflect that energy.

Todd

Yeah, in this case, when you think about the U.S., its climate zone and this application, we want to remove as much of that heat as possible from heating the building or heating the home so we're not putting that energy cost into cooling.

Ross

Great. Well, thank you, Todd, so much for the tour.

Todd

Okay,

thanks for coming. Ross

Keep up the great work.

Kevin

Nice piece,

Ross. Tom

Yeah.

Kevin

You know, when I hear 20% to 40% increase in solar reflectivity, that kind of gets my attention. But it's got me wondering, like, how does that translate into actual savings? Do I have to run my air conditioning less? And how much less?

Ross

I mean, well, of course, it depends, right? So if we focus on the highly reflective shingle, the one that looks more white at 40%, if that's used in a heating-dominant climate like where we are here in the Northeast, you're not gonna save that much, right? But down in Arizona and Florida, you're absolutely gonna save, and typically you're gonna save 10% to 15%

on your cooling costs. Kevin

Gotcha.

Ross

And if you go with the middle-tier one, the one that's 20%, you're gonna save a little bit less.

Kevin

Right, the savings goes down accordingly.

Gotcha. Tom

Makes sense, makes sense. But, you know, you always bring us these fancy innovations in building, and, you know, I'm not -- And it always comes with a steep learning curve, and I'm not into that, alright? What I do like about these shingles is it's the same installation process. So my guys installing a shingle like that won't know that that shingle is benefiting the homeowner.

Ross

The process doesn't change.

Tom

Right, but I also like the idea of it's a lighter shingle. I think of that shingle not getting so hot, so it's gonna last longer for the homeowner.

Mm-hmm. Kevin

Those roofs heat up, and they start to degrade quicker, right?

Absolutely. Kevin

Cool. Alright. Well, hey, you sold Pops. Nice job. Alright, well, we'd love to hear from you, so keep those letters and those e-mails coming. So until next time, I'm Kevin O'Connor.

I'm Ross Trethewey. Tom

And I'm Tom Silva.

Kevin

For "Ask This Old House." Next time on "Ask This Old House"...

Jenn

We're gonna split some firewood! Yeah, Tommy. Psh!

Mark

Installing a masonry fire pit can really upgrade your backyard. I'll show you how to do it.

Kevin

How are quartz countertops different from other materials? I'll show you what they are, how they're made, and how to install them.

Nathan

And I'll show you how to hang and display the American flag.