Amanpour and Company

>>> FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS THE PANDEMIC HAS PLACED GREAT STRESSES ON FAMILIES AROUND THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY ON CHILDREN. OUR NEXT GUEST, JOURNALIST JUDITH WARNER WRITES THAT CHILDREN HAVE BEEN SUFFERING WITH INCREASED FEELINGS OF ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION FOR YEARS. SHE SAT DOWN WITH MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS HOW COVID SIMPLY PUT A SPOTLIGHT ON THAT ISSUE. >> THANKS. JUDITH WARNER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US. >> SO GLAD TO BE HERE. THANK YOU. >> SO YOU HAVE BEEN WRITING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND WELLNESS AMONG CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS FOR SOME TIME NOW. YOU WROTE A PIECE RECENTLY FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST" MAGAZINE WHERE YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW IT'S TEMPTING TO THINK THAT THE CHALLENGES THAT WE ARE SEEING, IN FACT WHAT SOME PEOPLE CALL A CRISIS OF MENTAL HEALTH AMONG CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS SO DUE TO THE PANDEMIC. YOU MAKE THE ARGUMENT THIS GOES WELL BEFORE THAT. WHY DO YOU SAY THAT? >> ABSOLUTELY. AS YOU SAY, I HAVE BEEN COVERING THIS FOR A LONG TIME AND THE SURGEON GENERAL IN 1999 WARNED OF A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS AMONG AMERICAN KIDS. SINCE THAT TIME THE NUMBERS HAVE JUST GOTTEN WORSE, RISING LEVELS OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY, RISING RATES OF SUICIDE. YOU KNOW, THIS ABSOLUTELY DID NOT BEGIN WITH THE PANDEMIC IN 2020. >> JUST SOME OF THE NUMBERS THAT CITE THAT. I MEAN, YOU SAID ACCORDING TO THE CDC THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL, IN 2019 ONE OUT OF THREE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS AND ABOUT HALF OF ALL HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS REPORTED PERSISTENT FEELINGS OF SADNESS OR HOPELESSNESS AND ALSO ACCORDING TO THE CDC IN 2019, WHICH IS AGAIN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, ONE OUT OF SIX HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS REVEALED THEY HAD CRAFTED A SUICIDE PLAN IN THE PREVIOUS YEAR. THAT IS REALLY DISTURBING. I MEAN, I AM GUESSING THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT PERHAPS PARENTS AND MAYBE EDUCATORS HAD SEEN BUT PERHAPS MAYBE DIDN'T PUT IT ALL TOGETHER. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? WHY DO THE HEALTH PROFESSIONALS THINK THAT IS? WHAT'S AT THE ROOT OF THIS? >> RAISING THE ISSUE OF PARENTS AND TEACHERS, IT'S VERY HARD TO RECOGNIZE THE SIGNS OF MENTAL ILLNESS IN KIDS IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE EYES TO SEE IT. BECAUSE IT LOOKS SO DIFFERENT FROM ONE KID TO ANOTHER OR FOR ADULTS AND KIDS. A LOT OF PARENTS USE KIDS TO DEVELOP ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION HAVE IT THEMSELVES BUT IT LOOKS SO DIFFERENT. AND KIDS HIDE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THEM. AND TEACHERS OF COURSE HAVE THE SAME ISSUE. THEY CAN SENSE SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT, BUT UNLESS THEY HAVE BEEN SPECIFICALLY TRAINED IN HOW TO SPOT SERIOUS PROBLEMS, YOU JUST DON'T SEE THEM. AND KIDS REALLY DO THEIR BEST TO NOT WORRY THE ADULTS AROUND THEM. >> WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT PEOPLE ARE SO QUICK TO BLAME THE PANDEMIC? IS IT IN PART MAYBE BECAUSE KIDS WERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FACES, OR WERE KIDS MANIFESTING THEIR DISTRESS IN A MORE VISIBLE WAY DURING THE PANDEMIC? WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> ALL OF THAT. AND EXPERTS SAY THAT WHAT THE PANDEMIC DID WAS BASICALLY ADD GASOLINE TO A FIRE THAT HAD BEEN BURNING FOR A VERY LONG TIME. THE PANDEMIC WAS HARD FOR EVERYBODY. EVERYBODY. ADULTS AND KIDS WERE STRESSED, NOT SLEEPING WELL, ANXIOUS, WORRIED, AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, 2020 ALSO INCLUDED ALL OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS PROTESTS, YOU KNOW, THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS, AND THE POLICE RESPONSE TO THOSE PROTESTS, THE VERY MILITARIZED RESPONSE, AND THERE WAS REALLY A BIG FEELING OF UNSAFETY IN THAT PERIOD. THAT THEN WAS HEIGHTENED AFTER JANUARY 6th AS WELL. SO THERE WERE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON AND KIDS WERE SEEING THAT ADULTS WERE FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES ABOUT WHAT THE RIGHT THING WAS TO DO ABOUT COVID. THERE WAS SO MUCH RAGE IN THE AIR. THERE STILL IS. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE TOXIC ELEMENTS FOR A KID TO BE PLUNGED INTO JUST AS IT'S TOXIC FOR ALL OF US. REALLY TOUGH TIMES. SO PARENTS DEFINITELY WERE SEEING IT. IT WAS IN FRONT OF THEIR NOSES. THEN OF COURSE THE SOCIALIZED ELATION ON TOP OF THAT ANXIETY AND STRESS JUST HEIGHTENED WHATEVER WAS GOING ON BEFOREHAND AND THERE WAS A LOT THAT WAS GOING ON BEFOREHAND. >> YOU TELL SOME DISTURBING STORIES IN YOUR PIECE ABOUT SOME THINGS GOING ON BEFOREHAND. FOR EXAMPLE, YOU TELL THE STORY ABOUT A NORTHERN VIRGINIA CHILD PSYCHIATRIST WHO SET UP A COMPLICATE ADD MEDICATION REGIMEN FOR A 14-YEAR-OLD BOY WITH A DIAGNOSIS. HE HAD BIPOLAR DISORDER. BUT HE HAD RETIRED. AND WHEN THE BOY'S PARENTS COULDN'T FIND A REPLACEMENT, HIS PHYSICIANS DIDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE CONTINUING HIS MEDICATION REGIMEN BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT. SO HIS MEDICATION LAPSES AND THEY, YOU KNOW, WERE TRYING TO FIND SOMEBODY ELSE TO KEEP MONITORING HIM, BUT IT WAS, WHAT -- WAS IT MONTHS BEFORE THEY COULD FIND SOMEBODY? THE MEDICATION LAPSES. GETS INTO A DISAGREEMENT WITH SOMEBODY, HE PICKS UP A GUN AND SHOOTS SOMEBODY. THEN HE IS NOW -- SO, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY IS DEAD AND HE IS -- AND I ALSO HAVE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, MORE RECENTLY IN THE NEWS WE ARE SEEING SOME VERY DISTURBING STORIES INVOLVING KIDS. LIKE YOU ARE SEEING ON THE ONE HAND CRIMINAL JUSTICE IMPLICATE STUDIES, A KID WHOSE PARENTS WERE CALLED TO SCHOOL BECAUSE HE WAS SHOWING DISTURBING BEHAVIOR AND IN THE AFTERNOON AFTER THEY REFUSED TO ENGAGE WITH IT HE SHOT PEOPLE AT SCHOOL. AND ALSO IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AFTER YOUR PIECE AIRED THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF STORIES OF YOUNG WOMEN STUDENT ATHLETES TAKING THEIR OWN LIVES. DO YOU SEE THIS ALL AS A PIECE? BECAUSE WE TEND TO TALK ABOUT THIS IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU SEE THIS DIFFERENTLY. >> IT IS ALL OF THE PIECE IN THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COMMON THREAD IN THE STORIES THAT YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT IS LACK OF ACCESS TO CARE. RIGHT? KIDS NOT GETTING CARE. ABOUT HALF OF KIDS WITH DIAGNOSED MENTAL DISORDERS GET SPECIALIZED CARE, ACTUALLY SEE SOMEBODY LIKE A CHILD PSYCHIATRIST, A CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST, A CHILD, YOU KNOW, COUNSELOR WHO IS SPECIFICALLY TRAINED IN ADDRESSING THESE SORTS OF ISSUES. AND THERE ARE LOTS OF REASONS FOR THAT. JUST COMING BACK TO THE STORY THAT YOU TOLD ABOUT THE PERSON IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA, THAT WAS -- IT WAS ACTUALLY A PEDIATRICIAN WHO TOLD ME THAT STORY. THE PSYCHIATRIST -- AND THIS IS JUST ALL TOO TYPICAL HOW FRAGMENTED CARE IS AND HOW DIFFICULT THE RESPONSIBILITIES ARE THAT THEN FALL ON PARENTS. THE PSYCHIATRIST DIDN'T GIVE THE FAMILY ANY REFERRALS. THE FAMILY THEN GOES TO THE PEDIATRIC PRACTICE SAYING CAN YOU HELP US WITH THE MEDICATION? THE PEDIATRICIANS, BECAUSE THE CHILD IS ON THIS REALLY COMPLICATED COCKTAIL OF MEDS, AS SO MANY ARE, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE DIAGNOSED WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER, THEY DIDN'T DO THE DIAGNOSIS, THEY DIDN'T WRITE THE PRESCRIPTIONS AND DIDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE RENEWING THEM. THEY FELT LIKE THE FAMILY NEEDED HELP AND THE KID HAD TO GET CARE. SO THEY ACTUALLY PUT THEIR WHOLE NURSING STAFF ON THE JOB OF FINDING A PSYCHIATRIST FOR THIS KID AND THEY CALLED AROUND FOR DAYS AND DAYS AND FINALLY FOUND ONE WHO DIDN'T HAVE TOO MUCH OF A WAIT, MEANING IT WAS JUST A MONTH AS OPPOSED TO THREE MONTHS OR SIX MONTHS. AND AS YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU TOLD HOW THAT STORY ENDED. THIS DOCTOR TOLD ME THE STORY BECAUSE AFTERWARDS SHE WAS SO HORRIFIED SHE REALLY SET OUT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND SHE WENT AROUND THE STATE AND THEN AROUND THE COUNTRY TO HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON. ALSO IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA AROUND THAT TIME THERE HAD BEEN A KID WHO WAS ON A WAITING LIST FOR ONE OF THE FEW HOSPITALS THAT ACTUALLY HAD A PEDIATRIC PSYCH UNIT. THERE WERE 1,000 KIDS ON THAT LIST, AND, YOU KNOW, WHILE HE WAS ON IT HE DIED BY SUICIDE. SO THIS IS JUST -- THIS IS A HUGE, HUGE PROBLEM. >> WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT ON THE ONE HAND, YES, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE IMPACT OF COVID ON CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS AND ALSO, FRANKLY, ON ADULTS WHO WERE CLEARLY HAVE BEEN IN DISTRESS. BUT THE BROADER PICTURE OF SOME MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES DOESN'T SEEM TO -- I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SHARE THIS -- MY OBSERVATION DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE RISEN TO THE LEVEL OF A COHERENT NATIONAL CONVERSATION. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? IS IT JUST -- IS IT STIGMA THAT PEOPLE -- FAMILIES LIKE THEY ARE DEALING WITH THIS, THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT WITH OTHER FAMILIES? WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THAT? >> A LARGE PART IS STIGMA. ALTHOUGH THE STIGMA SIDE OF IT I THINK HAS DECREASED IN RECENT YEARS. WITH THE EXAMPLES YOU GAVE WITH THE ATHLETES, THEY MUST HAVE BEEN SUFFERING VERSUS THE KIDS ACTING OUT, THERE IS A RACE COMPONENT TO THAT. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, VERY OFTEN THE CASES OF THE KIDS WHO -- A TRAGEDY ARE WHITE KIDS AND THE KIDS WHO ARE SAID TO BE ACTING OUT ARE BLACK KIDS. YOU KNOW, WHO ARE REALLY VIEWED DIFFERENTLY IN SCHOOL. I MEAN, I'M NOT TELLING YOU ANYTHING YOU DON'T KNOW OR HASN'T BEEN REPORTED ALREADY ELSEWHERE THAT YOU DO HAVE A SCHOOL TO PRISON PIPELINE, BASICALLY, OF BLACK BOYS AND INCREASINGLY GIRLS WHO ARE VIEWED AS BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS, YOU KNOW, WHOSE DIFFICULTIES ARE SEEN AS CONDUCT DISORDER WHO, IN FACT, ARE SUFFERING FROM DEPRESSION OR UNDIAGNOSED LEARNING ISSUES, AND WHO DON'T GET TREATMENT AS A RESULT. AND WHO ARE JUST VILIFIED OVER AND OVER AGAIN. THAT IS A VERY LONG STANDING PROBLEM AND ONE THAT CONTINUES TO THIS DAY. >> HOW DOES THE PROFESSION ITSELF, LET'S SAY PSYCHIATRY, ADDRESS THIS? DOES THE -- DOES THIS -- DOES THE PROFESSION ADDRESS THIS IN ANY WAY? >> I THINK THERE IS INCREASINGLY PLENTY OF GOODWILL, BUT YOU ARE UP AGAINST A STRUCTURAL SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE 4% OF PSYCHIATRISTS, ALL PSYCHIATRISTS, NOT JUST CHILD PSYCHIATRISTS, WHO ARE BLACK AND YOU HAVE, OF COURSE, A PATIENT POPULATION WHICH REPRESENTS EVERY GROUP ACROSS THE SOCIOECONOMIC SPECTRUM. BUT WHO IN, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF WHICH YOU HAVE KIDS WHO HAVE BEEN SUBJECT TO RACISM ALL THEIR LIVES AND WHO IN MORE RECENT YEARS HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A TIME WHEN MORE AND MORE GROUPS ARE BEING SINGLED OUT IN VERY DANGEROUS WAYS. SO THE STRESS HAS RISEN. YOU MEAN, YOU KNOW, EXPERIENCING RACISM IS NOW WIDELY RECOGNIZED AS A FORM OF TRAUMA, IN AND OF ITSELF. SO YOU HAVE A REALLY BIG POPULATION OFTIZE -- TRAUMATIZED KIDS. KIDS IN POVERTY. THIS IS A LONG ONGOING PROBLEM THAT HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF ATTENTION IN RECENT YEARS AND THAT ATTENTION I THINK IS SLOWLY TRICKLING OUT INTO THE MAINSTREAM, SORT OF BEYOND PROFESSIONALS, BUT IT'S STILL NOT SOMETHING THAT KIND OF TRIPS OFF THE TONGUE. SO I THINK THAT WE TEND TO BE -- WE JOURNALISTS AND, YOU KNOW, THE SOCIAL CONVERSATION THAT COMES FROM IT, TEND TO BE MORE NARROW IN WHAT AND WHO WE FOCUS ON THAN WE ARE -- WE READILY ADMIT OR EVEN REALIZE. >> YOU CITE IN YOUR PIECE THAT IT TAKES ON AVERAGE EIGHT TO TEN YEARS FROM THE TIME A CHILD FIRST STARTS HAVING SYMPTOMS TO TRIAL STARTING TO RECEIVE TREATMENT. RECENTLY THERE WAS A DISTURBING PIECE IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ABOUT KIDS SLEEPING IN EMERGENCY ROOMS AROUND -- BECAUSE THERE ARE NO BEDS AND APPROPRIATE PSYCHIATRIC PLACEMENTS FOR THEM. LITERALLY SLEEPING IN EMERGENCY ROOMS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. DO YOU AT LEAST FEEL ENCOURAGED PEOPLE ARE PAYING MORE ATTENTION? >> I FEEL ENCOURAGED BY THE FACT THAT IT USED TO BE, OF COURSE, PEOPLE WHO DEALT WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES WERE THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE. NOBODY WANTED TO IDENTIFY WITH THAT GROUP. THERE WAS A LARGE PART OF DENIAL THAT WAS MIXED IN WITH ALL OF THAT. I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY BEEN SOFTENED OVER THE COURSE OF THE PANDEMIC BECAUSE LIFE'S BEEN HARD FOR JUST ABOUT EVERYONE. OF COURSE, NOT TO THE SAME DEGREE, BUT THERE IS SOMETHING OF A SHARED AWARENESS EVEN IF IT HASN'T NECESSARILY LED TO MORE COMPASSION. IT HAS AT LEAST LED TO A GREATER AND MORE UNIVERSAL INVESTMENT IN THE SUBJECT. AND, YOU KNOW, I REALLY, REALLY HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL TUNE INTO THE FACT THAT THERE ARE GOOD SOLUTIONS AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW, THAT AREN'T EXPENSIVE AND CAN BE PUT INTO PLACE VERY QUICKLY AND EASILY. I HOPE THAT THAT WON'T END UP GETTING SO WIDELY POLITICIZED THAT IT BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE. AND I'M TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE TRAINING TEACHERS AND OTHER SCHOOL PERSONNEL TO BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE WHEN KIDS ARE SHOWING SIGNS OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS THAT MAYBE RISES TO THE LEVEL OF BEING MENTAL ILLNESS, SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DIAGNOSED. OR TRAINING PARENTS IN THE SKILLS, TEACH THEIR KIDS TOOLS FOR DEALING WITH THUNDERSHOWER EMOTIONS. TRAINING TEACHERS TO DO THAT. AND TRAINING PEDIATRICIANS TO BE ABLE TO SERVE BASICALLY AS FIRST RESPONDERS WHEN IT COMES TO KIDS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. AND THAT ALSO IS UNDERWAY, ALL OF THAT ALREADY IS LIKE IS READY TO GO. IT JUST HAS TO BE MORE BROADLY PUT INTO PLACE. >> SO CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF A PLACE WHERE THIS IS WORKING, THESE KINDS OF STRATEGIES ARE BEING EMPLOYED? >> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE VERY SUCCESSFULLY TRAINING PEDIATRICIANS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN BEING ABLE TO DIAGNOSIS THE MOST ENTRY, THE MOST COMMON HEALTH CONDITIONS. THERE IS REACH THAT DOES THIS AROUND THE COUNTRY. THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED PROJECT ECHO THAT'S BEING WIDELY USED IN VIRGINIA TO TRAIN PEDIATRICIANS. AND, YOU KNOW, IN THIS WAY THOUSANDS OF PEDIATRICIANS HAVE BEEN TRAINED IN DOING KIND OF BASIC PSYCHIATRIC WORK, AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT CHILD PSYCHIATRISTS, OF WHICH THERE ARE SO FEW, ABOUT 8,000 FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, ARE FREED UP AND IF IT'S MORE WIDESPREAD THEY WOULD BE GREATLY FREED UP TO BE ABLE TO JUST TREAT KIDS WHO HAD THE MORE COMPLEX AND DIFFICULT PROBLEMS LIKE BIPOLAR DISORDER. AND THE MODEL IS MORE OR LESS THE SAME WHEN IT COMES TO TEACHERS OR PARENTS. FOR PARENTS, IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" PIECE WE HAVE A LITTLE BOX THAT SAYS WHERE THEY CAN GO TO PICK UP SOME OF THESE SKILLS. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DEVELOPED PROGRAMS FOR SCHOOL PERSONNEL, FOR TEACHERS, WITH REALLY SHORT LESSON PLANS. ACCOMPANIED SOMETIMES BY VIDEOS. I HAVE SEEN SOME OF THEM THAT ARE REALLY, REALLY GOOD. THEY ARE SIMPLE. THEY ARE SORT OF AT THE -- FOR THE -- THEY ARE MADE FOR KIND OF 10-YEAR-OLDS MORE OR LESS. BUT IN FACT THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO REACH OLDER KIDS AND EVEN YOUNGER ONES. AND IN FIVE MINUTES THOSE VIDEOS CAN DRIVE A POINT HOME THAT TEACHERS CAN THEN ADDRESS IN A 15-MINUTE LESSON AND REINFORCE AND THAT IS STARTING OFF IN A COUPLE OF D.C. SCHOOLS IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW, GET EXPERIENCE AND DATA. IT'S THERE. IT'S DOABLE. >> SO BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, PEOPLE LISTENING TO OUR CONVERSATION, WHAT WOULD YOU -- WHAT SHOULD THEY DO? I MEAN, WHAT ABOUT PARENTS WHO JUST WANT TO SUPPORT -- NOT EVEN PARENTS. PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING I AM RECOGNIZING THIS IS A CRISIS FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND I WANT TO BE HELPFUL. WHAT COULD THEY DO? >> THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO TO ADDRESS WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW, AND THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO PREVENT KIDS FROM BEING SO TRAUMATIZED THAT, YOU KNOW, TRAUMA IS DRIVING A LOT OF THE MOST SERIOUS MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS. AND A LOT OF THAT TRAUMA COMES ABOUT BECAUSE OF POVERTY, BECAUSE OF RACISM, BECAUSE OF SEXUAL ABUSE. YOU KNOW, ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT SEEM LIKE MAYBE THAT SEEM LIKE, YOU KNOW, SUCH LARGE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS THAT WE THROW UP OUR HANDS, BUT THERE IS SO MUCH GOOD SCIENCE BOTH ABOUT THE EFFECTS THAT THESE KINDS OF SOCIAL TRAUMAS HAVE AND ALSO WHAT TO DO ABOUT THEM. WHAT KINDS OF INTERVENTIONS HAVE AN AFFECT AND CAN MAKE THINGS BETTER. AND SO WE REALLY NEED A LOT MORE AIR TIME GOING TO BOTH, YOU KNOW, THE CAUSES OF TRAUMA, THE EFFECT OF TRAUMA, BUT ALSO WHAT WE CAN DO BECAUSE IT'S REALLY NOT TERRIBLY COMPLICATED. AND JUST ADD ON AND SAY TRAUMA ISN'T JUST SOMETHING ALSO THAT EFFECTS LOW-INCOME PEOPLE. THIS IS HAPPENING ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT SEXUAL VIOLENCE OR THE EFFECT OF LIVING IN A HOME WITH A PARENT WITH MENTAL ILLNESS OR SOMEBODY WHO IS STRUGGLING WITH AN ADDICTION THAT ISN'T BEING TREATED. THIS IS ALL OF OUR PROBLEM. AND MAYBE IT'S THE LAST REMAINING STIGMA THAT WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT, BUT WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT IF WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING FOR THE KIDS. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE.