Amanpour and Company

YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE IDEA OF LEADERSHIP IS ALMOST A MISNOMER, MISUNDERSTOOD, AND POTENTIALLY EVEN DANGEROUS. WHY DO YOU SAY THAT ABOUT AMERICA? >> FIRST I THINK YOU HAVE TO DEFINE THE WORD LEADERSHIP. IT JUST DOESN'T MEAN MOTHERHOOD AND APPLE PIE. IT MEANS BEING IN CHARGE. JOE BIDEN SAID HIMSELF, IT MEANS BEING AT THE HEAD OF THE TABLE. I THINK THE UNITED STATES NEEDS TO BE AT THE TABLE BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE HEAD OF IT. THE UNITED STATES DOESN'T HAVE NEARLY THE POWER THAT WE DID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE COLD WAR. BACK THEN, OUR GDP WAS ABOUT HALF THE WORLD'S GDP. IT IS NOW WITH 1/7. CHINA ALREADY HAS LARGER GDP AND IT IS LIKELY TO GROW. SO SECONDLY, IT IS NOT WHAT MOST AMERICANS WANT. IT REFLECTS A REAL GAP BETWEEN THE AMERICAN ELITE AND THE PEOPLE. POLL AFTER POLL SHOWS AMERICANS WANT AMERICA TO BE ENGAGED IN THE WORLD BUT A SHARED PARTNERSHIP. THEY SPECIFICALLY REJECT THE NOTION OF AMERICAN LEADERSHIP IN FAVOR OF PARTNERSHIP. AND FINALLY WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES, AS MANAGER'S HARD QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER WE'VE EARNED THE MORAL RIGHT TO CLAIM THAT WE ARE LEADERS. WE'RE THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT LEFT THE PARIS CLIMATE CHANGE AGREEMENT. WE LEFT THE W.H.O. IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC. WE HAVE, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS WRECKED THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION. AND EVEN BEFORE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, OUR POST 9/11 WARS CREATED BY ONE ESTIMATE, 37 MILLION REFUGEES. I THINK WE NEED A LITTLE BIT OF HUMILITY. >> SO THAT IS A LOT THERE. AND I WANT TO ASK YOU, KORI SCHAKE, HAVING BEEN IN THE ROOMS WHERE IT HAPPENED, SO TO SPEAK, IN THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT, THE STATE DEPARTMENT, ADVISING CANDIDATES ON A MORE TRADITIONALIST FOREIGN POLICY, SHOULD AMERICA BE AT THE TABLE AND NOT AT THE HEAD OF THE TABLE? WHAT KIND OF DIFFERENCE WOULD THAT MAKE? >> IT WOULD MAKE AN ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE. BECAUSE BEING AT THE TABLE, BEING JUST ONE OF MANY, IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO SUSTAIN THE EXISTING ORDER AGAINST THE CHALLENGE THAT'S ARE BEING PUSHED FORWARD BY CHINA AND BY OTHERS. THERE'S A REASON THAT THE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE THE POLICIES THAT PETER WAS TALKING ABOUT FOR THE UNITED STATES, THOSE ARE THE VERY COUNTRIES THAT DESPERATELY WANT A RETURN TO AMERICAN LEADERSHIP. BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT UNLESS THE UNITED STATES GATHERS AROUND US, LIKE MINDED COUNTRIES TO ESTABLISH AND ENFORCE THE RULES, SOMEBODY ELSE WILL AND YOU WILL LIKE THOSE RULES A LOT LESS THAN YOU WILL LIKE THE RULES THAT THE UNITED STATES AND ITS FRIENDS CREATED OUT OF ASHES OF WORLD WAR II.