Amanpour and Company

>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

WITH ASIA'S ECONOMY CHOKED OFF BY THE CLOSURE OF THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ, THE PHILIPPINES DECLARES A NATIONAL ENERGY EMERGENCY.

WE HEAR FROM THEIR FOREIGN SECRETARY.

> >> THEN, IN IRAN, OUTSIDE OBSERVERS REPORT MORE THAN 1,400 CIVILIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED.

IN LEBANON MORE THAN A MILLION DISPLACED AMIDST ONGOING ISRAELI ATTACKS.

TOM FLETCHER JOINS ME TO DISCUSS THE CIVILIAN TOLL OF THIS WAR.

> >> AND A CHILD OF IRANIAN REFUGEES AND A MEMBER OF CONGRESS.

DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE YASSAMIN ANSARI ON THE COMPLICATED FEELINGS FOR IRANIANS OUTSIDE AND THOSE CAUGHT UNDER THE BOMBS.

> >> PLUS, HARI SREENIVASAN SPEAKS WITH VETERAN MIDDLE EAST CORRESPONDENT KIM GHATTAS ABOUT ISRAEL'S WAR IN LEBANON.

> >> "AMANPOUR & CO. "

IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM THE STRAUSS FAMILY FOUNDATION.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND CHARLES ROSENBLUM MONIQUE SHONE WARSHAW.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

FOUR WEEKS AGO, THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL BEGAN THE IRAN WAR.

NOW THE ECONOMIC FALLOUT IS HITTING COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD, WITH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ BLOCKED, ENERGY-STARVED NATIONS ARE TAKING EXTREME MEASURES TO KEEP THEIR ECONOMIES AFLOAT.

ASIA IS PARTICULARLY HARD-HIT.

JAPAN TAPS INTO NATIONAL OIL RESERVES.

SOUTH KOREA ASKS FOLKS TO TAKE SHORTER SHOWERS TO CONSERVE ELECTRICITY.

AND IN INDIA, NO GAS CREMATIONS AS SUPPLIES ARE BEING RATIONED FOR THE LIVING.

THIS WEEK THE PHILIPPINES BECAME THE FIRST COUNTRY TO DECLARE A STATE OF NATIONAL ENERGY EMERGENCY.

PRESIDENT FERDINAND MARCOS JR.

APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO ENSURE THE AVAILABILITY OF FUEL, FOOD, MEDICINES, AND AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS.

AND A FILIPINO REFINERY RECEIVED A SHIPMENT OF RUSSIAN OIL TODAY AFTER THE U. S. WAIVED SANCTIONS ALLOWING THE PURCHASE OF THAT CRUDE.

MARIA THERESA LAZARO IS THE PHILIPPINES SECRETARY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS, AND SHE JOINED ME FROM MANILA.

FOREIGN SECRETARY, WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> YOU, THE PHILIPPINES, HAVE BECOME THE FIRST COUNTRY TO DECLARE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY BECAUSE OF ALL OF THIS.

HOW BAD IS IT RIGHT NOW?

>> YES, INDEED.

I THINK FOR ASEAN, THE SOUTHEAST ASIAN NATIONS, WE ARE THE FIRST TO DECLARE AN ENERGY EMERGENCY.

NOW HOW BAD IS IT?

WELL, WE ARE LOOKING FROM THE ASPECT OF SUPPLY AND THE PRICES.

IT SEEMS THAT OUR SUPPLY FOR OUR PREMIUM LEADS TO ABOUT 40 TO 40 DAYS.

AND THIS HAS REALLY HAD AN IMPACT, PARTICULARLY WE MAY HAVE THE SUPPLY, BUT THE PRICES REALLY HAVE GONE HIGH.

AND WE ARE REAL DEPRESSED.

PRESENTLY PRESIDENT MARCOS IS LOOKING INTO THE IMPACT TO THE ECONOMY.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE WORST OUTCOME OF ALL OF THIS?

OBVIOUSLY ON THE GRAND SCALE OF THE ECONOMY.

BUT IN INDIVIDUAL SECTORS, WHAT IS THE IMPACT ALREADY?

AND WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU ACTUALLY RUN OUT OF OIL AND FUEL?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S ALREADY TAKING A TOLL ON THE ORDINARY FILIPINO, THE TRANSPORTATION COSTS, THE PRICE OF FOOD BECAUSE IT ALSO AFFECTS THE FERTILIZERS THAT ARE BEING USED FOR OUR FOOD SECURITY.

SO THESE ARE ALL NOW --IT HAS A CASCADING EFFECT FROM ENERGY ISSUES IT GOES DOWN NOW TO OUR FOOD, AGRICULTURAL PARTICULARLY.

>> AND MADAM SECRETARY, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALREADY BEGINNING TO CAUSE SOME DISTRESS AND SOME PROTESTS, AS WE KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN TAXI DRIVERS AND TRANSPORT WORKERS BLOCKING ROADS TODAY AS WE SPEAK TODAY IN THE CAPITAL, MANILA, AND STRIKING OVER WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE COST OF FUEL, THE LACK OF PAYMENTS.

THESE DIESEL AND PETROL PRICES HAVE MORE THAN DOUBLED AS YOU SAID IN THE LAST MONTH.

YOU OFFERED SOME MITIGATION, ABOUT 5,000 PIECE PESOS FOR SOME TRANSPORT WORKERS.

BUT MANY SAY THEY AREN'T GETTING THEM.

LET ME PLAY A SHORT CLIP OF ONE OF THESE WORKERS.

>> Translator: IT'S OVERWHELMING.

IT'S A LOT TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE TOMORROW YOU NEVER KNOW HOW TO ADJUST THE EARNINGS YOU MAKE.

THAT IS THE MOST PAINFUL THING TO US BECAUSE OF THE RISE IN COST OF DIESEL.

>> SO YOU HEAR FROM ONE OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY PEOPLE.

WHAT IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO FOR THEM RIGHT NOW?

AND WHAT IS THE WORST THAT MIGHT HAPPEN IF YOU CAN'T?

>> WELL, RIGHT NOW, THE PRESIDENT HAS COME UP WITH THIS NATIONAL --I MEAN, ENERGY EMERGENCY.

NOW WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

WITH THIS EMERGENCY POWERS, IT WILL NOW GIVE THE LEGAL AUTHORITY FOR THE PRESIDENT AND CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE BUREAUCRACY CONCERN TO REALLY ENSURE ENERGY SUPPLY THAT WILL MITIGATE THE INCREASE OF PRICES AND ENERGY NEEDS, AGAIN, WITH A VIEW OF LOOKING OF HELPING THE ECONOMY.

NOW I THINK THIS IS ACTUALLY A WHOLE OF GOVERNMENT EFFORT.

AND WELL, THIS WAS JUST ANNOUNCED BY THE PRESIDENT.

ONLY I THINK YESTERDAY IT CAN START WITH DECREASING CERTAIN TAXES, PARTICULARLY EXCISE TAXES.

WE'RE ALSO LOOKING INTO THE VNT POSSIBILITY IN THE FUTURE.

NOW THESE ARE VERY IMPORTANT EMERGENCY POWERS GIVEN TO THE PRESIDENT TO MITIGATE THE SITUATION, BECAUSE THIS WILL HELP -- THIS WILL HELP LOWER DOWN THE PRICES.

>> NOW, YOU'VE GOT ABOUT 2.

5 MILLION FILIPINOS LIVING IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND WORKING THERE.

ARE YOU TRYING TO GET THEM OUT?

IS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE SOME OF THEM ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS, YOU KNOW, SORT OF DIMINISHING THE REMITTANCES THAT THEY SEND HOME?

WHAT IS THE CRISIS FOR IN THAT REGARD?

>> WELL, AGAIN, THIS IS ISSUE.

NOW LET ME JUST GET BACK TO THE POINT THAT ONE OF THE PILLARS OF OUR FOREIGN POLICY IS ASSISTANCE TO NATIONALS.

AND THEREFORE SINCE THE SITUATION STARTED IN LATE FEBRUARY, THERE HAS BEEN A NUMBER OF REPATRIATION EFFORTS BY MOST OF THE DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND ANOTHER AGENCY WHICH IS IN CHARGE OF OVERSEAS WORKERS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF MIGRANT WORKERS.

SO FAR THERE HAS BEEN ALMOST 2,000 OF OUR CONTRACT WORKERS THAT HAVE BEEN REPATRIATED.

AND OF COURSE, THAT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT THEY ARE BEING TAKEN CARE OF WHILE HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES.

HOWEVER, THERE IS STILL A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REQUESTING TO BE REPATRIATED, AND ALL EFFORTS ARE THERE.

AND IT'S CONTINUING, AND WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT SITUATIONS.

IF THE AIRSPACE IS CLOSED IN CERTAIN PLACES IN THE MIDDLE EAST, CERTAIN AIRPORTS, THEN OUR EMBASSIES, AS WELL AS CONSULATES TRY TO FIND SOME LAND ROUTES.

AND THEREFORE, WE HAVE STILL FILIPINO LET'S SAY IN IRAN AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEM OUT THROUGH TURKEY.

AND THE SAME THING WITH THE OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE GCC.

>> SO I WANT TO ASK YOU, FOREIGN SECRETARY, YOU ARE A VERY CLOSE ALLY OF THE UNITED STATES.

AS I SAID, ASIA APPEARS TO BE IMPACTED THE WORSE BY THE ENERGY CRISIS RIGHT NOW.

DID YOU GET ANY HEADS UP?

COULD YOU HAVE MADE ANY CONTINGENCY PLANS?

AND WILL THIS SORT OF MAYBE PUSH YOU INTO AN ALLIANCE OF NECESSITY PERHAPS WITH CHINA?

BECAUSE YOUR OWN PRESIDENT HAS SAID THE PHILIPPINES MIGHT EMBRACE JOINT ENERGY EXPLORATION WITH CHINA IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL IN PROVIDING US ALSO SOME ENERGY SOURCES.

I MEAN, ALL THESE DETAILS ARE ACTUALLY WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY.

BUT YES TO YOUR QUESTION.

THE UNITED STATES HAS REACHED OUT.

NOW TO YOUR OTHER QUERY, THERE IS SUCH A POSSIBILITY BECAUSE ALSO THE NEED OF FOR OUR ENERGY SOURCES.

AND I MENTIONED ALSO THE STATEMENT MADE BY THE PRESIDENT, BECAUSE THERE MIGHT JUST BE SOME DISCUSSIONS ON A CERTAIN DISPUTED TERRITORY WHEREBY THERE CAN BE SOME KIND OF DISCUSSIONS AND NEGOTIATIONS.

>> I UNDERSTAND.

REGIONAL SECURITY OF COURSE IS ABOUT A ISSUE.

AS YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THIS ABOUT IRAN AND THE U. S. AND ISRAEL'S REASON FOR WAR IS TO MAKE SURE THAT IRAN NEVER GETS A NUCLEAR BOMB.

BUT JUST IN YOUR HEMISPHERE, IN ASIA, NORTH KOREAN DICTATOR KIM JONG- UN TOLD HIS LAWMAKERS THIS WEEK THAT THE IRAN WAR JUSTIFIES HIS DECISION TO DOUBLE DOWN ON NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> WELL WE HAVE BEEN VERY CONSISTENT IN OUR POSITION AGAINST NORTH KOREA AND ITS AMBITION TOWARDS A MISSILE.

I MEAN, HAVING THIS MISSILE CAPABILITY.

AND WE HAVE BEEN ONE PARTICULARLY WHEN WE HAVE OUR STATEMENTS MADE TOGETHER WITH THE REPUBLIC OF KOREA AND JAPAN THAT WE HAVE BEEN TELLING THEM THAT WE ARE AGAINST THIS SITUATION.

AND THERE HAS BEEN SOME CONTINUOUS DISCUSSIONS, PARTICULARLY THIS IS BEING DISCUSSED IN THE ASEAN SETTING NOW THAT WE'RE THE CHAIR OF ASEAN.

>> WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST CONCERN NOW ABOUT THE WAR ON IRAN AND ALL THE CONSEQUENCES THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PREDICTED?

>> WELL, THE BIGGEST CONCERN IS ACTUALLY WHEN.

UNTIL WHEN WILL THE SITUATION LAST?

BECAUSE, AGAIN, AS WE SAID, WE DO BACK TO THE VERY BASIC ISSUES THAT WE HAVE OUR ENERGY SECURITY AS WELL AS FOOD SECURITY.

AND IT'S THIS UNPREDICTABILITY THAT WE ARE FACING.

BUT WE, OF COURSE, WE ARE NOT SITTING DOWN.

THE PHILIPPINES TOGETHER WITH OUR OTHER ASEAN COUNTRIES ARE TRYING TO LOOK INTO A NUMBER OF POSSIBILITIES.

IN FACT, THERE HAD BEEN MEETINGS OF OUR ASEAN ENERGY MINISTERS.

AND WE, AGAIN, THE POSSIBILITY OF HELPING EACH OTHER BECAUSE SOME OF OUR ASEAN MEMBERS ARE ALSO OIL PRODUCING COUNTRIES.

BUT WE STILL NEED A GOOD NUMBER OF SOURCES.

>> MARIA THERESA LAZARO, FOREIGN SECRETARY OF THE PHILIPPINES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> NOW THE IMMEDIATE TOLL OF THIS WAR IS NOT JUST ECONOMIC, OF COURSE.

DOZENS OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED IN THE GULF COUNTRIES, IN ISRAEL, AND THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK.

IN IRAN, MORE THAN 1,400 CIVILIANS ARE DEAD, INCLUDING OVER 200 CHILDREN, ACCORDING TO THE U. S.

- BASED HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST NEWS AGENCY.

AND IN LEBANON, TARGETING OF INTENSE ISRAELI BOMBARDMENTS IN A GROUND INVASION AGAINST HEZBOLLAH HAVE CAUSED OVER A MILLION PEOPLE TO BE DISPLACED.

AND THE MINISTRY OF PUBLIC HEALTH SAYS MORE THAN A THOUSAND ARE DEAD THERE.

TOM FLETCHER IS UNDER-SECRETARY-GENERAL FOR HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS AT THE UNITED NATIONS, AND HE'S JOINING ME HERE IN THE STUDIO.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

WE DON'T TALK VERY MUCH ABOUT THE HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE THAT'S UNFOLDING.

OBVIOUSLY, EVERYTHING IS BEING VIEWED IN TERMS OF THE BOMBS FALLING, THE ASSASSINATIONS, AND THE ECONOMIC CRISIS AFTER THE CHOKEHOLD.

WHAT IS, IN YOUR VIEW, THE HUMANITARIAN FALLOUT?

>> IT'S MASSIVE, CHRISTIANE.

WE'VE GOT THOUSANDS DEAD, AS YOU DESCRIBED.

WE'VE GOT MILLIONS DISPLACED ACROSS THE REGION.

AND WE'LL BE PAYING FOR THIS WAR FOR YEARS TO COME.

AND PEOPLE ARE ALREADY --THE WORLD IS MAKING CHOICES.

SPENT TENS OF BILLIONS, HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THIS CONFLICT RATHER THAN ON DEALING WITH THE SURVIVORS, SUPPORTING SURVIVORS, AND SUPPORTING THE 300 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ALREADY NEEDED HUMANITARIAN SUPPORT.

SO WE'RE --WE'RE DEEPLY FRUSTRATED WITH THAT.

THAT'S DIPLOMATIC SPEAK FOR SAYING WE'RE FURIOUS, BECAUSE RICH PEOPLE ARE WINNING OUT OF THIS.

THE ARMS DEALERS ARE WINNING, THOSE SPECULATING ON THE STOCK MARKET ARE WINNING.

AND THE PEOPLE I SERVE ARE LOSING.

ABSOLUTELY.

WELL, THE VICTIMS OF THIS CONFLICT ARE THE CIVILIANS.

>> CAN I ASK YOU, THIS IS KIND OF THE FIRST TIME THAT I'VE SORT OF BEEN AWARE OF SOMETHING OF SUCH MAGNITUDE AND MASSIVE IMPORTANCE ALMOST BEING TREATED IN AN UNSERIOUS WAY.

YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT THE SPECULATION.

I JUST TALKED ABOUT THE BETTING, YOU KNOW, ON OIL PRICES AND THINGS AND STOCK PRICES.

CAN YOU REMEMBER A TIME WHEN WE DIDN'T HEAR FROM THE MAJOR LEADERS, WHEN WE DON'T HEAR THE BIG DIPLOMACY AND THE SET PIECES.

IT'S JUST HARD.

>> IT IS HARD.

AND, YOU KNOW, DIPLOMACY IS NOT REALITY TV.

THE WORLD IS NOT A CASINO.

STATECRAFT IS NOT A REAL ESTATE DEAL.

WE'VE GOT GET SERIOUS AGAIN.

INTERNATIONAL LAW IS NOT SEXY.

IT'S NOT EXCITING, BUT IT'S WHAT WE BUILD TO RESTRAIN OURSELVES FROM OUR WORST INSTINCTS.

AND WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO THE TABLE.

WE NEED RATIONAL, SERIOUS, STRATEGIC CONVERSATION AGAIN RATHER THAN THIS DAY TO DAY GAME SHOW APPROACH TO THE WORLD.

>> AND NOT JUST THAT.

IT'S ALMOST AS OH, WELL, IF THEY DON'T COME TO THE PEACE TABLE, WE'LL KEEP BOMBING.

OH, WELL, DROPPING BOMBS IS FUN.

IT'S VERY WEIRD.

I'VE NEVER HEARD THIS KIND OF CYNICISM BEING EXPRESSED FROM THE HIGHEST PODIUMS IN THE WORLD.

AND IN THE MEANTIME, SO TELL ME, WHAT IS THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

LET'S TAKE IRAN FIRST, AND THEN WE'LL GO TO LEBANON.

>> WELL, JUST TO FINISH YOUR POINT, WHAT WE'RE NOT HEARING IS ANYTHING ABOUT PROTECTING CIVILIANS.

YOU KNOW, A YEAR AGO, I WOULDN'T HAVE THOUGHT I'D NEED TO COME ON AND USE THE TALKING POINT ABOUT PROTECTING CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND YET NOW IT SEEMS TO BE OPEN SEASON THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT BOMBING SCHOOLS, BOMBING HOSPITALS, BOMBING BRIDGES.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE WAR CRIMES.

THEY'RE COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

BUT SOMEHOW THAT'S BECOME PART OF THE DAY TO DAY RHETORIC HERE FROM ALL SIDES.

SO THE HUMANITARIAN IMPACT IS MASSIVE IN IRAN.

WE'RE SCALING UP WHAT WE'RE DOING THERE IN RESPONSE.

PARTICULARLY LOOKING AT THE REFUGEE CRISIS WHERE MY COLLEAGUES AT UNHDR ARE LEADING AN EFFORT TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ALREADY DISPLACE READY GETTING THE HELP THEY NEED.

I'LL BE GOING TO LEBANON THE NEXT FEW DAYS, A REAL EPICENTER I THINK OF THE CRISIS NOW.

BUT I FEAR OF THE CRISIS IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS TO COME.

WE CAN'T GET OUR CONVOYS TO THE SOUTH OF LEBANON RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE BRIDGES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED.

>> I'VE HEARD FROM THE FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER WHO I HAD ON THE PROGRAM I THINK IT WAS LAST WEEK WHO SAID THAT EVEN IF THE IRAN WAR DOES DE-ESCALATE AND THEY FIND SOME KIND OF NEGOTIATED END TO THIS, OR WHATEVER, THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER, NETANYAHU, WILL INCREASE AND UP THE TEMPO OF THE ATTACKS IN LEBANON.

SO HOW MANY DEAD, HOW MANY DISPLACED, AND WHERE DO YOU SEE THAT ENDING?

AND ARE THERE THE RESOURCES?

>> WE'VE GOT OVER A MILLION DISPLACED.

IT'S ONE IN FIVE PEOPLE.

IT'S STAGGERING.

AND REMEMBER, MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE ALREADY DISPLACED.

AND OFTEN DISPLACED FROM ONE ETHNIC AREA INTO ANOTHER, WHICH CREATES ALL SORTS OF TENSIONS.

AND FURTHER DANGERS.

YOU'VE ALSO GOT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS MOVING BACK AND FORTH ACROSS THE LEBANON-SYRIA BORDER.

I'LL BE IN DAMASCUS LATER THIS WEEK AS WELL.

SO I DO FEAR THAT WE MIGHT GET TO A POINT IN IRAN WHERE BOTH SIDES CLAIM SOME SORT OF PYRRHIC VICTORY.

BUT THAT CONFLICT IN LEBANON WILL CONTINUE.

AND YOU'RE HEARING SOME PRETTY CHILLING THINGS FROM ISRAELI MINISTERS ABOUT TURNING THE SOUTH OF LEBANON INTO GAZA.

I'VE BEEN TO GAZA TWICE IN THE LAST YEAR THAT IS A TERRIFYING THING TO BE TALKING ABOUT.

>> THERE IS ANOTHER THING.

OH, THEY SAY THAT, AND NOBODY REALLY PAYS ATTENTION OR REACTS.

IT'S VERY WEIRD.

AND YOU TALKED ABOUT POTENTIAL WAR CRIMES.

YOU KNOW, THE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY LAST WEEK, OR EARLIER THIS WEEK, TWEETED AFTER TRUMP SAID YOU BETTER OPEN --TO THE IRANIANS, YOU BETTER OPEN THE STRAITS OF HURRICANE MILTON MUZZ WITHIN 48 HOURS OR WE WILL DESTROY AND TARGET ALL YOUR POWER PLANTS.

AND MURPHY SAYS THAT'S, IN FACT, A WAR CRIME.

>> SOME OF US DO TRY AND SPEAK OUT.

AND THE UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY GENERAL HAS BEEN VERY, VERY FIRM IN ALLING THIS KIND OF LANGUAGE, THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR OUT.

IT'S OUR JOB, ISN'T IT?

YOUR JOB IN THE MEDIA, MY JOB IN THE U. N. TO KEEP FOCUSING ATTENTION ON INTERNATIONAL LAW.

BUT JUST TALKING IN THOSE TERMS WILL GET US A LOAD OF BLOWBACK FROM THOSE WHO DISAGREE, WHO THINK WE SHOULD BE IGNORING THIS AND MOVING ON TO THE NEXT EPISODE OF THE GAME SHOW.

>> LET ME JUST PLAY WHAT THE SECRETARY GENERAL SAID YESTERDAY ABOUT THE CHAOS OF A WIDENING WAR.

>> JUST HOURS INTO THE OUTBREAK OF THE WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST, I WARNED THAT THE FIGHTING RISKED TRIGGERING A CHAIN REACTION THAT KNOW ONE COULD CONTROL.

MORE THAN THREE WEEKS ON, THE WAR IS OUT OF CONTROL.

THE CONFLICT HAS BROKEN PAST THE LIMITS ANY IMAGINABLE.

THE WORLD IS STARING DOWN THE BARREL OF A WEATHER WAR, HUMAN SUFFERING AND A DEEPER GLOBAL ECONOMIC SHOCK.

THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR.

IT'S TIME TO STOP CLIMBING THE ESCALATION LADDER AND START CLIMBING THE DIPLOMATIC LADDER AND RETURN TO FULL RESPECT OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S SERIOUS STUFF.

AND YOU'VE WARNED WE'RE SEEING CONSEQUENCES SPREAD FASTER THAN WE CAN RESPOND.

SO THE WORLD FOOD PROGRAM, ROUGHLY 45 MILOSEVIC MORE PEOPLE COULD BE PUSHED INTO ACUTE HUNGER IF THE CONFLICT CONTINUES.

ON TOP OF THE 318 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ALREADY ARE, AS YOU SAID, VERY VULNERABLE AND SUFFERING, YOU KNOW, FOOD INSECURITY AROUND THE WORLD.

SO AS YOU PICTURE THIS, BECAUSE WE JUST REPORTED BEFORE YOU CAME ON, IT'S EVEN GOING TOWARDS --WELL, VERY MUCH HITTING ASIA RIGHT NOW.

AND IT'S NOT JUST THEY CAN'T FILL UP THEIR CARS.

THEY CAN'T BUY FOOD.

THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN, MANY OF THESE WORKERS.

>> WELL, THE SECRETARY GENERAL HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY CLEAR ON THIS, AND HE IS REALLY MEETING THE MOMENT.

WE ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE SECONDARY AND TERTIARY IMPACTS.

SO YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN AFGHANISTAN, PAKISTAN, LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN IRAQ RIGHT NOW.

AGAIN, BIG POPULATIONS ALREADY DISPLACED, FRAGILE ECONOMIES.

I'M PARTICULARLY WORRIED ABOUT EAST AFRICA AND SUBSAHARAN AFRICA.

IF WE CAN'T GET OUR MARITIME CONVOYS MOVING THROUGH THE STRAITS OF HORMUZ, ACTUALLY MORE PEOPLE WILL BE TICKED INTO FAMINE CONDITIONS.

THAT WORLD PROGRAM STAT IS REALLY, REALLY WORRYING.

45 MILLION PEOPLE COULD BE PUSHED INTO HUNGER.

SO WE'RE NOW HAVING TO ADAPT OUR ROUTES.

WE'RE TAKING MUCH OF THE SUPPLIES FROM DUBAI NOW TO JEDDAH AND ACROSS.

>> SO ALL THE WAY ACROSS SAUDI ARABIA?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> AND CAN YOU USE THE RED SEA?

BECAUSE THERE WAS THE THREATS THAT MAYBE THE HOUTHIS IN SYMPATHY OR WHATEVER WITH IRAN WOULD TRY TO CLOSE THAT AND NOT LET IT COME UP THE SUEZ CANAL.

>> DOING WHAT WE CAN.

BUT THAT'S A REAL FRAGILITY REALLY IN THE SUPPLY CHAIN.

OUR AIR CON WAS DISRUPTED.

SO WE KEEP HAVING TO ADJUST.

THESE CHANGES ALONE COST US FOUR OR FIVE WEEKS.

AND IF YOU'RE ALREADY STARVING, THOSE FOUR OR FIVE WEEKS ARE TERRIBLE.

>> CAN I --THERE ARE OTHER THINGS AS WELL THAT ARE HAPPENING UNDER COVER OF THIS WAR.

LET'S SAY IN THE WEST BANK, THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK, HAARETZ HAS NOW REPORTED THAT A 17-YEAR-OLD WALID AHMAD, WHO WAS ARRESTED FROM THE WEST BANK IN '24, 2024, STARVED TO DEATH INSIDE ISRAEL'S MEGIDDO PRISON.

HE IS THE FIRST PALESTINIAN UNDER 18 TO DIE.

THE AUTOPSY FOUND NO SINGULAR DEFINITIVE CAUSE, BUT SAW THE TEEN SUFFERED FROM EXTREME MALNUTRITION, AND THE JUDGE RULED THAT STARVATION DIDN'T PROVE THE CAUSE OF DEATH --DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THIS.

BUT WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT?

AND THERE HAVE BEEN OTHERS NOT QUITE AS YOUNG.

>> WE WORRY ABOUT THIS CRISIS.

WE ONLY HAVE BANDWIDTH FOR TWO OR THREE STORIES AT A TIME.

AS A RESULT, A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES GET COMPLETELY NEGLECTED, UKRAINE, SOUTH SUDAN, AND THIS RISING SECT OF VIOLENCE IN THE WEST BANK, WHICH LOOKS TO ME TO BE VERY ORGANIZED, VERY TARGETED, AND WHICH IS DRIVING HUGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE FROM THEIR HOMES.

AND THAT, AGAIN, IS STORING UP PROBLEMS FOR THE FUTURE, BECAUSE IT UNDERMINES OF COURSE ANY PROSPECT OF THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION ON WHICH ACTUALLY THE FUTURE PEACE OF THE REGION DEPENDS.

>> IT REALLY DOESN'T SEEM LIKE ANY LEADER ANYWHERE THERE HAS ANY INTENTION OF PURSUING THAT AT THE MOMENT, OR EVER.

WHAT ABOUT USAID CUTS?

BECAUSE THAT HELPED THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, RIGHT?

ALL THE MONEY THAT THEY GAVE, YOU KNOW, IT MAKES UP LESS THAN 1% OF THE FEDERAL U. S. BUDGET, BUT THEY WERE LIFE-SAVING PROGRAMS FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD.

AND NOW GROUPS SUCH AS THE UNHCR AND OTHERS ARE APPEALING FOR DONATIONS.

WHAT --WHAT ACTUAL IMPACT IS THAT HAVING RIGHT NOW?

>> IT HAS A HUGE IMPACT.

OVER YEARS, U. S. AID MONEY SAVED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF LIVES.

SO OF COURSE THE CUTS HAVE A BIG IMPACT.

I'M APPEALING THIS YEAR FOR $23 BILLION GLOBALLY WHICH WHICH WE CAN SAVE 87 MILLION LIVES.

IT'S A STAGGERING NUMBER.

WE SAVE 70 MILLION LIVES IN JANUARY ALONE.

THIS IS EXTRAORDINARY WHEN OUR PEOPLE RA OUT THERE LITERALLY UNDER ATTACK EVERY DAY DELIVERING THAT SUPPORT.

>> AND THEY ARE NOW, RIGHT?

U. N. WORKERS HAVE BEEN KILLED, EVEN IN THIS WAR?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

EVERY WEEK I'M CALLING THE RELATIVES OF U. N. COLLEAGUES AND NGO COLLEAGUES BEING KILLED OUT THERE ON THE FRONT LINES.

NOW SOME U. S. MONEY IS COMING BACK IN.

WE ANNOUNCED AT THE END OF DECEMBER, $2 BILLION COMING BACK INTO THE HUMANITARIAN SYSTEM.

AND CURRENTLY WE'RE ALLOCATING THAT ACROSS 18 DIFFERENT COUNTRY CRISES.

THAT MAKES THE U. S. THE BIGGEST INDIVIDUAL NATIONAL DONOR.

SO WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR THAT, BUT IT'S NOT WHAT IT WAS, OF COURSE.

BUT IT'S NOT JUST THE U.S., CHRISTIANE.

EVERYONE IS CUTTING BUDGETS.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY YOUR OWN COUNTRY, THE UK AS WELL, RIGHT?

>> THE UK HAS CUT TO 0.

3% OF THE GDP.

>> IT SHOULD BE 0.

7.

>> IT WAS BEFORE.

AND A LOT OF THESE COUNTRIES REALLY SCALING BACK.

NOW, WE'VE GOT SOME GREAT LOYAL DONORS, AND I COULD GIVE YOU THE LIST STARTING FROM THE NETHERLANDS AND SWITZERLAND AND OTHERS WHO ARE STAYING THE COURSE, NORWAY, ALL THE ONE I FORGOT NOW, PLEASE FORGIVE ME, THE OTHER COUNTRIES.

SO SOME COUNTRIES ARE STAYING THE COURSE.

BUT OVERALL, THIS HAS GONE FROM A SECTOR THAT WAS PROBABLY SPENDING ABOUT $50 BILLION A YEAR ON AID TO PROBABLY ABOUT $20 BILLION.

>> AND WHEN THE UK ANNOUNCED IT'S CUTTING BACK AND THEN SAID IT WOULD ONLY GIVE TO --THERE WAS SEVERAL LIKE GAZA AND OTHER COMMITMENTS THEY WOULD KEEP, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY, THEY SAID, BECAUSE OF NOW THE PRESSURE TO SPEND MORE ON MILITARY.

SO IT'S LITERALLY GUNS AND BUTTER RIGHT NOW.

>> ALL I'M ASKING FOR $23 BILLION.

IT'S LESS THAN 1% OF WHAT THE WORLD IS SPENDING ON GUNS RIGHT NOW.

AND THAT'S BEFORE THIS LATEST ESCALATION WHERE I UNDERSTAND THEY SPENT THAT IN THE FIRST TWO WEEKS.

THE U. S. ALONE SPENT THAT IN THE FIRST TWO WEEKS OF THE CONFLICT.

SO YOU'VE GOT SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE CUTTING FOR IDEOLOGICAL REASONS, AND OTHERS CUTTING BECAUSE THEY SAY THEY'RE LESS SECURE.

PARTICULARLY THE EUROPEANS.

THEY FEEL LESS SECURE ON THEIR OWN CONTINENT AND SAY WE HAVE TO INVEST MORE IN GUNS AND WEAPONS.

BUT ALSO YOU'RE SEEING THE BRAINPOWER OF THE WORLD SPENDING MORE TIME INVENTING MORE AND MORE DEADLY DRONES.

90% OF ALL DRONE ATTACKS ARE AGAINST CIVILIANS, BY THE WAY, INCLUDING MANY OF OUR HUMANITARIANS.

>> 90%?

>> NINE OUT OF EVERY TEN ATTACKS FROM DRONES ARE HITTING CIVILIANS.

YOU'VE GOT ALL THAT INGENUITY AND CREATIVITY AND TECHNOLOGICAL KNOW HOW GOING INTO WORKING OUT MORE AND MORE DEADLY WAYS OF KILLING EACH OTHER RATHER THAN BACKING UP THE LAWS AND SYSTEMS THAT ARE MEANT TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM OUR WORST INSTINCTS.

>> WELL, WE'RE VERY HAPPY YOU COULD COME IN AND EXPLAIN THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS, AND WE'LL WAIT FOR YOUR NEXT REPORT.

TOM FLETCHER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> ON FEBRUARY 28th, PRESIDENT TRUMP ANNOUNCED MAJOR COMBAT OPERATIONS BEGAN IN IRAN AND ADDED THIS MESSAGE TO THE PEOPLE THERE.

>> TO THE GREAT, PROUD PEOPLE OF IRAN, I IS A SAY TONIGHT THAT THE HOUR OF FREEDOM IS AT YOUR HOME.

STAY SHELTERED.

DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOME.

IT'S VERY DANGEROUS OUTSIDE.

BOMBS WILL BE DROPPING EVERYWHERE.

WHEN WE ARE FINISHED, TAKE OVER YOUR GOVERNMENT.

IT WILL BE YOURS TO TAKE.

THIS WILL BE PROBABLY YOUR ONLY CHANCE FOR GENERATIONS.

>> SINCE THAT CALL, AMERICAN AND ISRAELI BOMBS HAVE KILLED OVER A THOUSAND IRANIANS.

ANNI RGC AND FORCES CONTINUE TO CRACKDOWN ON ANY DOMESTIC PROTEST.

U. S. REPRESENTATIVE YASSAMIN ANSARI IS THE CHILD OF IRANIAN REFUGEES AND IS THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC IRANIAN AMERICAN IN CONGRESS.

SHE SAYS THAT SHE FEELS A WIDE MIX OF EMOTIONS OVER WHAT SHE ARGUES IS AN ILLEGAL WAR.

REPRESENTATIVE ANSARI, WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

CAN I START BY ASKING YOU ABOUT YOUR FAMILY, WHERE YOUR PARENTS, WHERE ARE YOUR EXTENDED FAMILY WHO MIGHT STILL BE IN IRAN, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW THEY ARE?

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

MY PARENTS HAVE A PRETTY CLASSIC STORY AS MANY DO HERE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO ARE PART OF THE DIASPORA.

THEY FLED IRAN.

MY DAD CAME TO THE UNITED STATES BEFORE THE REVOLUTION AND THEN STAYED HERE IN THE U.S., AND MY MOM FLED IN THE MIDST IN THE AFTERMATH, IN THE EARLY 1980s AFTER MY GRANDFATHER WAS IMPRISONED IN IRAN.

SO I HAVE SPENT MY ENTIRE LIFE HEARING ABOUT THE ATROCITIES OF THIS REGIME, HAVE HAD FAMILY MEMBERS IMPACTED AND MURDERED BY THE REGIME.

AS WELL WE HAVE EXTENDED FAMILY, FRIENDS IN IRAN.

MY MOM'S 90-YEAR-OLD GREAT AUNT LIVES IN TEHRAN AND IT'S BEEN AS YOU KNOW LARGELY DIFFICULT TO GET IN TOUCH WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY GIVEN THE INTERNET BLACKOUTS IN THE COUNTRY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I DO KNOW THAT.

IT'S OBVIOUSLY A SOURCE OF GREAT ANXIETY FOR MANY PEOPLE.

NOT ONLY THERE, BUT OUTSIDE.

SO TELL ME, THEN, GIVEN YOUR HISTORY, GIVEN WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID, AND EVEN WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL SAID, WE ARE PREPARING ESSENTIALLY THE GROUNDWORK FOR YOU TO TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR DESTINY.

YOU MUST HAVE SUPPORTED THAT.

>> HERE IS THE ISSUE.

DONALD TRUMP IS A WANNA- BE DICTATOR AND AUTHORITARIAN HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

HE DOESN'T WANT DEMOCRACY FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

AND I HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST 15 MONTHS AS A U. S. CONGRESSWOMAN HIM USING I. C. E. AND TURNING I. C. E. INTO HIS OWN PERSONAL PARAMILITARY FORCE.

HE HAS GONE AFTER THE PRESS.

HE HAS TRIED TO GO AFTER HIS OWN POLITICAL OPPONENTS.

WE HAVE SEEN AN EROSION OF RIGHTS ALL OVER THE MAP HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO IT'S VERY PAINFUL TO SEE THE WAY THAT HIMSELF AND PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU ARE OUTRIGHT LYING AND SELLING A FANTASY TO IRANIAN PEOPLE WHO ARE RIGHTFULLY AND UNDERSTANDABLY DESPERATE FOR REGIME CHANGE, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF THE MASSACRES THAT TOOK PLACE IN JANUARY.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT EVERYTHING DONALD TRUMP HAS SAID, HE'S NOT INTERESTED IN ACTUAL FREEDOM OR DEMOCRACY FOR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE EXACT OBJECTIVE OF THIS WAR IS, BUT I CAN TELL YOU IN BRIEFINGS THAT I HAVE BEEN A PART OF, I'VE DIRECTLY ASKED THIS QUESTION.

IS THERE A PLAN FOR A DEMOCRATIC TRANSITION IN IRAN.

AND IT'S BEEN MADE VERY CLEAR TO ME THAT THAT IS NOT A PART OF THE MISSION.

MEANWHILE, AMERICANS ARE SEEING GAS PRICES GO THROUGH THE ROOF.

THERE ARE AMERICAN TROOPS ON THEIR WAY TO THE MIDDLE EAST.

IT'S LARGELY UNPOPULAR AMONG THE AMERICAN POPULATION, AND WE'RE SEEING DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCES ACROSS THE REGION.

SO IT IS TERRIFYING THAT WE HAVE, REALLY, A MENTALLY DERANGED LEADER HERE IN THE UNITED STATES PUTTING THE REST OF THE WORLD IN SUCH DANGER.

>> CAN I ASK YOU, THEN, GIVEN WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT NO TRANSITION PLAN FOR DEMOCRACY OR FOR PEOPLE'S RIGHTS IN IRAN UNDER THIS, DO YOU THINK THEY'VE ALSO WALKED BACK THEIR STATED GOAL OF CREATING THE CONDITIONS, EVEN IF HE SAID IT'S UP TO YOU, IRANIANS, IF WE DON'T HELP YOU, IT'S UP TO YOU ONCE WE FINISH THE BOMBING.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S BEEN WALKED BACK?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY HAS BEEN.

JUST IN THE LAST 48 HOURS, YOU'VE SEEN THE PRESIDENT AND HIS PRESS SECRETARY KAROLINE LEAVITT SAYING THERE HAS BEEN REGIME CHANGE IN IRAN.

IF THIS IS THEIR DEFINITION OF REGIME CHANGE, THEN WE KNOW, YOU KNOW, ABSOLUTELY THAT THEY -- MAYBE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND IRAN, WHICH I THINK COULD BE VERY PLAUSIBLE THAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY OR THE COUNTRY THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH, THE WAY THE REGIME OPERATORS, THE WAY THE IRGC OPERATES.

BUT YES, I THINK THEY THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE EASY.

I THINK THEY THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE A VENEZUELA- STYLE OPERATION.

YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD KILL THE AYATOLLAH, AND THE NEXT DAY THERE WOULD BE A BIG UPRISING IN THE COUNTRY.

BUT THAT IS NOT REALITY.

THIS IS A COUNTRY OF 90 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH HORRENDOUS MASSACRES.

THEY'RE TERRIFIED OF BOTH THE REGIME AS WELL AS BOMBS FALLING FROM THE SKY.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE ARE NOW IN THIS HORRIFIC SITUATION, THIS COSTLY ILLEGAL WAR.

AND I WORRY THAT THIS IS GOING TO LEAVE THE IRANIAN PEOPLE IN AN EVEN WORSE POSITION AFTER WHENEVER IT BECOMES A DONALD TRUMP DECIDES HE IS TIRED OF THIS OR IT'S TOO POLITICALLY UNPOPULAR FOR HIM AND HE DECLARES SOME SORT OF FAKE VICTORY, AND THEN THE IRANIAN PEOPLE ARE LEFT WITH A REGIME THAT WILL CRACK DOWN EVEN FURTHER, AND THERE WILL BE NO SUPPORT LATER ON.

>> CNN HAS BEEN GATHERING VOICES FROM INSIDE IRAN AND BEEN DOING IT SINCE THE BEGINNING.

AND MANY PEOPLE WERE, AS YOU KNOW, VERY HAPPY TO SEE THIS BOMBING, GOING TO THE ROOFS, SHOUTING THAT THEY WERE HAPPY THAT KHAMENEI AND THE OTHERS WERE KILLED.

NOW IT APPEARS TO BE SOMEWHAT SHIFTING, THE SENTIMENT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO PLAY YOU A SELECTION OF THE LATEST VOICES THAT WE'VE COLLECTED OUT OF TEHRAN.

>> Translator: I'M ANGRY.

I AM SO ANGRY THAT NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

AND THAT MORE LIKELY NOTHING WILL HAPPEN OR CHANGE THAT WILL BENEFIT THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

I HAD THE SAME FEELING LAST TIME IN THE 12-DAY WAR.

WHY DID THIS HAPPEN?

FOR WHAT?

WHY DID THEY FOR 12 DAYS BOMB US, FORCE US OUT OF OUR HOMES, FORCE US TO FLEE?

IT CREATED TERROR AND HORROR FOR OURSELVES, OUR CHILDREN, OUR ANIMALS.

THESE THINGS ARE SERIOUS.

OUR LIVES ARE AT RISK.

>> Translator: MAYBE IF THEY DO TALK, AT THE VERY LEAST, IT CAN IMPROVE THE ECONOMIC SITUATION.

IF THIS WAR CONTINUES, OUR LIVES WILL BE HALTED AND STOPPED, MEANING WE CANNOT MOVE FORWARD.

WHILE THE SITUATION IN IRAN REMAINS UNCLEAR, WE ARE ALL UP IN THE AIR.

WE HAVE BEEN IN THIS LIMBO FOR MONTHS, NEARLY A YEAR.

IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, IT'S JUST GOTTEN WORSE AND WORSE.

>> Translator: I'M PISSED OFF, I'M SCARED, AND IT'S SUFFOCATING, QUITE FRANKLY, THEY IS A SELECTION.

IT'S ABOUT THREE PEOPLE, BUT WE JAMMED THEM ALL TOGETHER.

BUT THEY'RE VERY, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE THIS LEAVES THEM.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO --IN YOUR CLOSED DOOR BRIEFINGS THAT YOU'VE APPARENTLY HAD SEVERAL SINCE THIS WAR BEGAN, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE ADMINISTRATION?

AND WHAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU ABOUT THEIR FINAL AIMS?

>> FIRST OF ALL, IT'S VERY HEARTBREAKING AND DIFFICULT TO LISTEN TO THOSE VOICES.

I THINK THE ULTIMATE TRAGEDY IN ALL OF THIS IS THE IRANIAN PEOPLE WHO WILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE TO SEE TRAGEDY AFTER TRAGEDY IN THEIR COUNTRY.

AND I ONLY WISH THE BEST FOR THEM.

I, YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS NEVER MADE ANY SORT OF CLEAR CASE OR JUSTIFICATION ABOUT WHAT THIS WAR IS ABOUT.

ONE DAY THEY WILL SAY IT'S ABOUT THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM.

THE NEXT THEY'LL SAY IT'S ABOUT THE NAVY OR THE MISSILE PROGRAMS.

THE NEXT DAY YOU'LL SEE TRUMP SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IRANIAN PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT CLEAR AT ALL.

MY HOPE AND MY URGE TO THIS ADMINISTRATION IS TO NOT ABANDON THE IRANIAN PEOPLE IN THE SENSE THAT IF DIPLOMACY IS HAPPENING, OR ANY SORT OF TALKS ARE TO HAPPEN, IT IS VITAL THAT HUMAN RIGHTS ARE PART OF THE CONVERSATION, THAT ANY FUTURE GOVERNMENT IN IRAN DOES NOT --MAKES COMMITMENTS AROUND NOT MASSACRING THEIR OWN PEOPLE, ABOUT RELEASING POLITICAL PRISONERS.

THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE RIGHT NOW TRAPPED INSIDE PLACES LIKE EVIN PRISON, THE NOTORIOUS PRISON IN IRAN, SOME OF THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST IN THE COUNTRY.

THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO BE RELEASED IMMEDIATELY, AND THIS WAR NEEDS TO END.

WE NEED AN OFFRAMP THAT REDUCES AS MUCH HARM AS POSSIBLE.

THIS IS A DEVASTATING SITUATION.

AND I ECHO THE VOICE ABOUT THE ECONOMIC SITUATION.

ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO SUPPORT THE ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES OF IRANIANS WOULD BE GREAT.

>> CAN I JUST ASK YOU VERY QUICKLY, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU'VE SEEN THIS, BUT "THE WASHINGTON POST" IS REPORTING THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS CONSIDERING -- HAS NOTIFIED CONGRESS THAT IT INTENDS TO DIVERT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FUNDING BY NATO COUNTRIES THROUGH A SPECIAL PROGRAM.

THEY'VE ALREADY BOUGHT FROM THE UNITED STATES WEAPONS TO GIVE UKRAINE, RIGHT, UNDER ORDERS FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.

AND THEY PLAN TO TAKE THIS AND USE IT TO RESTOCK THEIR OWN PENTAGON MILITARY SUPPLIES.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

>> IT'S OUTRAGEOUS.

DONALD TRUMP HAS CONTINUED TO ABANDON UKRAINE AND NATO.

THE FACT THAT HE MADE A STATEMENT SAYING NATO SHOULD BE COMING TO OUR DEFENSE RIGHT NOW.

HE CREATES CRISES THAT DIDN'T EXIST AND THEN TRIES TO FORCE OTHER PEOPLE TO GET US OUT OF IT.

THIS HAS BEEN --WE'VE LIFTED SANCTIONS ON RUSSIAN OIL THROUGHOUT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE'RE SEEING GAS PRICES SPIKE HERE AND AMERICANS ARE FURIOUS, CAN'T PAY FOR GAS OR THEIR RENT OR ANYTHING.

AND I JUST --AGAIN, I'VE HEARD FROM UKRAINIANS IN MY COMMUNITY AND FROM PARTNERS IN EUROPE THAT THIS IS --THIS HAS WORLDWIDE CONSEQUENCES.

AND WE'RE SEEING THEM.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN YASSAMIN ANSARI, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FROM WASHINGTON.

AND AS WE SAID EARLIER, THE ISRAEL-LEBANON FRONT IS INTENSIFYING.

THE IDF SAYS A THIRD SOLDIER WAS KILLED IN COMBAT AGAINST HEZBOLLAH IN SOUTHERN LEBANON ON WEDNESDAY.

THIS AS ISRAEL TARGETS BRIDGES OVER THE LITANI RIVER AND OCCUPIES THE AREA IN ORDER TO TRY TO CUT OFF HEZBOLLAH AND ISOLATE ITS STRONGHOLD.

KIM GHATTAS IS A LEBANESE JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR, AND SHE EXPLAINS THE CHANGING FACE OF THE MIDDLE EAST TO HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

KIM GHATTAS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FOR MOST OF OUR AUDIENCE, AS THE CONVERSATION HAS BEEN ABOUT THE WAR, IT'S BEEN ABOUT ISRAEL, IT'S BEEN ABOUT THE UNITED STATES, IT'S BEEN ABOUT IRAN, BUT LEBANON IS FACING A SIGNIFICANT CRISIS RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT HEARING ABOUT IT IN THE NEWS.

I'M HEARING THAT ALMOST A QUARTER OF THE POPULATION IS DISPLACED.

WE'VE GOT MORE THAN A THOUSAND PEOPLE KILLED, 2500 INJURED.

WHAT'S THE SITUATION LIKE IN LEBANON?

>> HARI, GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, AND THANKS FOR FOCUSING ON LEBANON, WHICH IS INDEED THE SECOND BIG WAR FRONT IN THIS REGIONAL CONFLICT.

I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT SINCE THE CEASEFIRE BETWEEN LEBANON AND ISRAEL, OR MORE SPECIFICALLY HEZBOLLAH AND ISRAEL IN NOVEMBER OF 2024, ISRAELI STRIKES AGAINST LEBANON HAVE CONTINUED ON A VERY REGULAR BASIS.

ALMOST 2,000 STRIKES IN JUST OVER A YEAR.

SO THOSE STRIKES DON'T MAKE HEADLINES EITHER BECAUSE THEY'RE SORT OF BAKED INTO THE NORMALITY OF THINGS.

BUT THEY HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFICULT AND PAINFUL FOR LEBANON.

AND NOW THE COUNTRY FINDS ITSELF ENGULFED IN THIS NEW REGIONAL WAR WHERE ISRAEL HAS DIFFERENT OBJECTIVES ON THE REGIONAL FRONT AND IN LEBANON.

FOR LEBANON, AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS IS THE SECOND WAR IN JUST A YEAR AND A HALF.

A QUARTER OF THE POPULATION IS ON THE MOVE.

IT IS A HUGE STRESS ON THE LEBANESE AUTHORITIES, ON THE STATE COFFERS FOR A COUNTRY THAT IS ALREADY IN DIRE ECONOMIC STRAITS.

AND OF COURSE, ALSO, VERY DIFFICULT FOR LEBANESE SOCIETY TO BE ABLE TO ABSORB SO MANY PEOPLE ON THE MOVE.

IT'S CAUSING SOME TENSIONS BETWEEN COMMUNITIES, AND, OF COURSE, THERE IS TENSION AT A NATIONAL LEVEL ABOUT WHAT IS LEBANON'S ROLE IN ALL OF THIS.

>> SO WHAT DO THE PEOPLE FEEL MOST FRUSTRATED AT, I GUESS?

IS IT THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT?

IS IT ISRAEL?

IS IT THE UNITED STATES?

IS IT IRAN?

>> ALL OF THE ABOVE.

THE LEBANESE ARE REALLY FED UP WITH BEING A BATTLEGROUND FOR REGIONAL PROXY WARS OR REGIONAL CONFRONTATIONS.

THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN LEBANON I WOULD SAY A MAJORITY WHO ARE ANGRY AT HEZBOLLAH FOR HAVING LAUNCHED THOSE FIRST ROCKETS AT ISRAEL TO AVENGE THE DEATHS OF A FOREIGN LEADER, AYATOLLAH KHAMENEI, THE SUPREME LEADER OF ISSUE.

THERE ARE EVEN THOSE IN HEZBOLLAH'S OWN COMMUNITY SAYING YOU DID NOT AVENGE ANY OF THE PEOPLE OVER THE LAST YEAR INVOLVED IN THESE ISRAELI STRIKES, BUT YOU LEBANESE PEOPLE, INCLUDING HEZBOLLAH COMBATANTS, AND YOU CHOSE TO AVENGE THE DEATH OF A FOREIGN LEADER.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF ANGER AND TENSION THERE, INCLUDING IN THE SHIA COMMUNITY WHERE HEZBOLLAH DRAWS MOST OF ITS SUPPORT.

THERE IS FRUSTRATION AT THE UNITED STATES FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING THE DETAILS AND THE NUANCES OF LEBANON'S POSITION AND THE DIFFICULTIES THAT IT IS FACING IN LIVING UP TO AND EXPECTATIONS BY THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

BUT I GUESS THERE IS FRUSTRATION AROUND THE WORLD WHEN IT COMES TO PRESIDENT TRUMP'S APPROACH TO THIS WAR.

AND THEN FINALLY THERE IS, OF COURSE, ANGER AT ISRAEL FOR CONTINUING TO BOMB LEBANON, INCLUDING INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND TALKING NOW ABOUT TAKING OVER SOUTHERN LEBANON AND CREATING A BUFFER ZONE THERE, UNINHABITABLE FOR ANYONE, THAT THEY COULD OCCUPY AND CONTROL IN THE LONG-TERM.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING IS ISRAEL HAS TRIED THIS BEFORE, AND IT DID NOT WORK.

IT HAD AN 18-YEAR- LONG OCCUPATION OF SOUTHERN LEBANON UNTIL IT WITHDREW IN 2000.

>> YOU WROTE RECENTLY IN THE FINANCIAL TIMES THIS KIND OF GOES BACK, THIS INTERRELATIONSHIP AND THIS ENTANGLEMENT BACK IN THE '70s AND '80s.

YOU HAD THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION IN '79, ISRAEL INVASION OF LEBANON IN '82.

HOW DID HEZBOLLAH THAT WE KNOW TODAY FORM FROM THOSE TENSIONS?

>> SO IF I MAY JUST ACTUALLY ADD A POINT, THERE IS ALSO FRUSTRATION WITH THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY FOR HAVING NOT DONE ENOUGH, AND THAT EVERYTHING THAT IT IS DOING NOW IS TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE, INCLUDING TRYING TO STAND UP FOR LEBANESE SOVEREIGNTY.

CALLING ON IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS TO LEAF THE COUNTRY, AND NOW CALLING ON THE IRANIAN AMBASSADOR TO LEAVE AS WELL.

AND THE REASON WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO MENTION THIS IS BECAUSE IT TIES INTO THIS QUESTION NOW, HARI, WHICH IS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS, WHICH IS THAT IN THE 1970s AND EARLY '80s, LEBANON WAS A STAGING GROUND FOR ATTACKS AGAINST ISRAEL BY PALESTINIAN GUERRILLAS FROM THE PALESTINIAN LIBERATION ORGANIZATION, LED AT THE TIME BYIAS BY BY YASAR ARAFAT.

FIGHTING WARS BY LEBANON.

AT THE TIME IT WAS SYRIA L THEY PRESS GANGED LEBANON INTO BECOMING THE BATTLEGROUND AND THE STAGING GROUND FOR THESE ATTACKS.

ISRAEL DECIDED TO INVADE LEBANON IN 1982 AND TO, IN THEIR WORDS, GET RID OF THAT PALESTINIAN THREAT ON ITS BORDER.

AND TO SOME EXTENT, THAT WAS A SUCCESSFUL MILITARY OPERATION, ALTHOUGH IT COST THOUSANDS OF LIVES IN LEBANON BECAUSE THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP DID GO INTO EXILE.

BUT TWO DAYS AFTER THE ISRAELI MILITARY OPERATION IN LEBANON STARTED, IRAN SENT REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS, HUNDREDS OF THEM, TO SYRIA AND THEN ON TO LEBANON TO EXPORT THEIR REVOLUTION AND FIGHT WHAT THEY DESCRIBE AS THE ZIONIST ENEMY, PUSH AMERICA 80s OF THE MIDDLE EAST.

AND THAT IS THE BIRTH OF HEZBOLLAH.

SO YOU MAY HAVE TACTICAL VICTORIES, AS WE'RE SEEING TODAY, IN THIS REGIONAL CONFRONTATION, BUT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO THINK STRATEGICALLY LONG-TERM AT WHAT OTHER PROBLEMS YOU MAY BE CREATING.

>> SO HOW HAS HEZBOLLAH KIND OF EVOLVED OVER TIME, IF THAT WAS THEIR ORIGIN STORY?

>> THEIR ORIGIN STORY IS VERY MUCH A CREATION OF THE IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS IN LEBANON, A TOOL OF BOTH THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC AND ALSO AT THE TIME OF SYRIA'S PRESIDENT HAFEZ AL ASSAD TO FIGHT AGAINST ISRAEL.

AND THERE IS A WHOLE DECADE OF ATTACKS, INCLUDING THE BOMBINGS OF THE MARINES IN BEIRUT IN 1983, THE FRENCH PARATROOPERS AS WELL, AND ALSO, OF COURSE, A DECADE OF HOSTAGE-TAKING.

AND I WANT TO MAKE VERY QUICK MENTION HERE OF A SCANDAL KNOWN AS THE IRAN CONTRA SCANDAL IN WHICH AT THE TIME THE U. S. AND ISRAEL ACTUALLY GAVE WEAPONS TO IRAN IN THE 1980s TO TRY TO GAIN THE RELEASE OF HOSTAGES IN LEBANON.

THERE IS ALSO THE LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THERE WHERE ISRAEL AND THE U. S. ACTUALLY IN SOME WAYS --IT'S TOO LONG FOR OUR SHOW NOW --ENABLED THE SURVIVAL OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC.

SO INITIALLY HEZBOLLAH STARTS OUT AS AN EXPORT OF THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION.

IT STARTS OUT AS FIGHTING AMERICA FIRST, AND THEN IT TURNS INTO WHAT MANY PEOPLE IN LEBANON DESCRIBED AS NATIONAL RESISTANCE, A LEGITIMATE RESISTANCE AGAINST ISRAELI OCCUPATION OF SOUTH LEBANON.

THAT IMAGE BEGINS TO CHANGE AFTER 2000 WHEN ISRAEL WITHDRAWS.

AND IT CHANGES DRAMATICALLY AFTER 2005 WHEN HEZBOLLAH FINDS ITSELF INVOLVED IN THE KILLING OF LEBANESE CITIZENS, INCLUDING FORMER LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER RAFIC HARIRI AND OTHER PERSONALITIES IN LEBANON.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE CRITICISM I GUESS IN HEZBOLLAH LIES TODAY IS THEY HAVE TRANSFORMED INTO A GROUP THAT USES VIOLENCE NOT JUST TO LIBERATE OCCUPIED LAND, BUT USES VIOLENCE AGAINST ITS OWN PEOPLE TO HOLD ON TO POWER.

>> SO KIM, IN 2023, HEZBOLLAH JOINED THE CONFLICT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS.

NEARLY A YEAR LATER, ISRAEL CONDUCTED SEVERAL ATTACKS AGAINST HEZBOLLAH, FAMOUSLY, THE COORDINATED PAGER ATTACK THAT KILLED A DOZEN PEOPLE, INJURED MORE THAN 3,000 PEOPLE.

THEN THERE WAS A SERIES OF MILITARY STRIKES THAT EVEN TOOK OUT THE LEADER, HASSAN NASRALLAH.

THE IMPRESSION AT THE TIME WAS HEZBOLLAH WAS SIGNIFICANTLY WEAKENED.

IS THAT TRUE?

>> THAT WAS THE ASSESSMENT OF ISRAEL AT THE TIME, THAT THEY HAD BEEN, YOU KNOW, INCAPACITATED UP TO 70%, AND THAT THE REST OF THE 30% SHOULD BE HANDLED BY THE LEBANESE AUTHORITIES TO MAKE SURE THAT HEZBOLLAH WOULD NO LONGER REPRESENT A THREAT ON ISRAEL'S BORDER.

THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT TODAY IS BEING CRITICIZED FOR NOT HAVING DONE ENOUGH TO MAKE SURE THAT HEZBOLLAH IS NO LONGER --NO LONGER HAS THE CAPACITY TO STRIKE ISRAEL.

BUT WHAT IS BEING ASKED OF THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT AND THE LEBANESE ARMY, WHICH IS TO DISARM --FORCIBLY DISARM HEZBOLLAH I THINK IS WRONG- HEADED, INCLUDING TODAY BECAUSE IT CAN LEAD TO INTERNAL STRIFE AND VIOLENCE.

WE'RE HEARING TODAY FROM HEZBOLLAH OFFICIALS THREATENING THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT FOR ITS CRITICISM OF HEZBOLLAH'S ACTIONS AND FOR ITS CALL FOR THE DEPARTURE OF IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS AND THE IRANIAN AMBASSADOR.

SO THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT IS STUCK BETWEEN NOT EVEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE, BUT A ROCK AND A ROCK BETWEEN ISRAEL'S ACTIONS AND HEZBOLLAH'S THREATS, AND IRAN'S AGENDA IN LEBANON.

CAN IT DO MORE?

CAN THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT DO MORE?

I THINK SO.

BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY SHOULD ASSIST THE LEBANESE AUTHORITIES TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE FOR THE CITIZENS AT THIS VERY DIRE TIME AND OFFER AN ALTERNATIVE TO HEZBOLLAH WHEN IT COMES TO THE SHIA COMMUNITY.

AND ALSO ONE MORE POINT, HARI, THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT HAS OFFERED TO ENTER INTO DIRECT NEGOTIATIONS WITH ISRAEL, WHICH IS A HISTORIC FIRST SINCE THE 1980s.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS DIVISIVE INSIDE LEBANON.

WHY WOULD WE NEGOTIATE WHILE WE'RE BEING BOMBED?

HEZBOLLAH, AS I SAID, IS ATTACKING THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT.

BUT IT IS A STEP THAT IS WORTHWHILE SUPPORTING WHEN IT COMES TO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

>> SO WHY DIDN'T THE CEASEFIRE HOLD THAT FRANCE HELPED NEGOTIATE?

>> FRANCE AND THE U. S. AT THE TIME, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HELPED TO NEGOTIATE THAT CEASEFIRE.

AS I SAID, ISRAEL CONTINUED TO STRIKE LEBANON REPEATEDLY, SOMETIMES ON A DAILY BASIS IN THE SOUTH AND THE BEKAA VALLEY, BUT ALSO A FEW TIMES IN BEIRUT.

SO IT IS ISRAEL THAT IS ACTUALLY IN BREACH OF THE CEASEFIRE FROM DAY ONE.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT JUST EARLIER THIS WEEK.

FINANCE MINISTER SAID THE LITANI RIVER MUST BECOME OUR NEW BORDER WITH THE STATE OF LEBANON.

SO IS THE POINT HERE TO TRY TO INCREASE A GEOGRAPHIC BUFFER FOR THE SAFETY OF ISRAEL?

OR IS THIS A LAND GRAB?

>> IT'S A LAND GRAB.

IT'S A LAND GRAB.

AND THERE ARE DEEP FEARS IN LEBANON THAT ISRAEL'S, YOU KNOW, MILITARISTIC EXPANSIONIST APPROACH TO ITS REGIONAL POLICY IS GOING TO LEAD TO THIS LAND GRAB IN SOUTHERN LEBANON.

AND, AGAIN, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE ISRAEL OCCUPIED SOUTHERN LEBANON BEFORE.

AND IT DID NOT WORK OUT.

IT DID NOT BRING SAFETY TO NORTHERN ISRAEL.

AND THAT'S WHY EVENTUALLY IN 2000, PRIME MINISTER EHUD BARAK AT THE TIME DECIDED TO WITHDRAW.

HE WITHDREW UNILATERALLY, AND I KNOW THAT THE REACTION IN ISRAEL IS WE WITHDREW AND WE LEFT AND WE GAVE YOU BACK YOUR LAND, AND ALL WE GOT WAS ROCKETS.

BUT UNILATERAL WITHDRAWALS ARE NOT A RECIPE FOR LONG-TERM SUSTAINABLE DIPLOMATIC SOLUTIONS.

WHICH IS WHY TODAY IT IS HISTORIC THAT THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT IS OFFERING THESE NEGOTIATIONS.

YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS LAND GRAB, YOU KNOW, 10, 20, 30 KILOMETERS INTO LEBANON IS BELOW THE RANGE OF HEZBOLLAH'S ROCKETS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF THINGS GO TERRIBLY WRONG AND THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT IS NOT ABLE TO ASSERT ITS AUTHORITY ON THE WHOLE OF LEBANON'S TERRITORY, YOU COULD HAVE HEZBOLLAH ROCKETS STILL LANDING IN NORTHERN ISRAEL, EVEN IF THERE IS THIS BUFFER ZONE.

AND, AGAIN, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT FOR THE LONG-TERM, YOU NEED TO HAVE DIPLOMATIC CONVERSATIONS.

AND IT IS A BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL LAW TO OCCUPY AND, YOU KNOW, GRAB LAND LIKE THAT.

WHETHER IT'S FOR YOUR SAFETY OR FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE ISRAELI OFFICIALS ARE MENTIONING.

>> SO IF YOU THINK THAT LEBANON NOW IS FACING ISRAEL, THAT IN SOME WAYS WANTS TO EXPAND THEIR TERRITORY, AND AT THE SAME TIME, IRAN DOES NOT HAVE THEIR EYE ON LEBANON LIKE THEY MIGHT HAVE 25, 30 YEARS AGO, RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY ARE RIGHT NOW IN AN ACT OF CONFLAGRATION WITH THE UNITED STATES AND REALLY A LOT OF THEIR NEIGHBORS.

>> WELL, ACTUALLY, HARI, IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS ARE OPERATING IN LEBANON.

THAT IS LEBANON'S DILEMMA RIGHT NOW.

IT IS STUCK BETWEEN THESE ISRAELI MILITARY AND TERRITORIAL DESIGNS AND AN IRANIAN REGIME THAT CARES VERY LITTLE ABOUT LEBANESE SOVEREIGNTY.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE SEEING THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT PUSH BACK NOT ONLY AGAINST ISRAEL'S DESIGNS, BUT ALSO AGAINST IRAN'S, YOU KNOW, MILITARY OPERATIONS IN LEBANON VIA THESE REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS.

SO WHEN HEZBOLLAH DECIDED TO LAUNCH THESE ROCKETS AT ISRAEL TO AVENGE THE DEATH OF ALI KHAMENEI, IT APPEARS THAT THE DECISION WAS TAKEN BY IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS TO ENTER THIS FIGHT BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY BORDER THAT IRAN IN A WAY CAN SHARE WITH ISRAEL THAT'S VIA LEBANON, RIGHT.

SO THE ASSUMPTION IN LEBANON IS THAT IT WAS AN IRANIAN DECISION TO PUSH HEZBOLLAH TO ENTER INTO THIS WAR.

AND THE ISRAELI STRIKES HAVE ALREADY KILLED SEVERAL IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS IN LEBANON OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

SO IRAN IS VERY MUCH SEEING LEBANON AS PART OF ITS REGIONAL EFFORTS TO PUSH BACK AGAINST AMERICAN INFLUENCE, TO FIGHT ISRAEL, AND TO GAIN LEVERAGE.

WE'RE HEARING A LOT ABOUT AMERICA AND ISRAEL'S MILITARY SUCCESSES, SUCCESSES, TACTICS, ET CETERA.

BUT IRAN IS BUILDING LEVERAGE, INCLUDING THERE THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

>> HAS THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT TAKEN STEPS TO DELEGITIMIZE HEZBOLLAH AND TRY TO DECREASE THE INFLUENCE OF IRAN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AS I MENTIONED, THEY HAVE FIRST OF ALL DECLARED HEZBOLLAH'S MILITARY AND SECURITY ACTIVITIES TO BE OUTSIDE OF THE LAW.

THEY HAVE ARRESTED SEVERAL MEMBERS OF HEZBOLLAH AND PUT THEM THROUGH TRIAL IN A MILITARY TRIBUNAL.

YOU KNOW, FOR SOME IT LOOKS MOSTLY SYMBOLIC, BUT IT IS STILL SOMETHING.

THEY HAVE, AS I SAID, CALLED ON IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

AND NOW THEY HAVE ASKED THE IRANIAN AMBASSADOR TO LEAVE LEBANON AS WELL.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE TWO BIG SHIA PARTIES, HEZBOLLAH, BUT ALSO AMAL, WHICH IS LED BY NABI BARI, SPEAKER OF PARLIAMENT, WHO HAVE COME OUT AND SAID WE REFUSE TO SEE THE IRANIAN AMBASSADOR LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

SO THIS IS NOT JUST A WAR THAT ISRAEL IS WAGING AGAINST LEBANON.

IT IS NOT JUST A WAR THAT IRAN IS CONDUCTING VIA LEBANON.

IT IS ALSO A WAR, A BATTLE FOR LEBANESE SOVEREIGNTY.

AND I HOPE THAT THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT STEP BACK FROM ITS DEMAND THAT THE IRANIAN AMBASSADOR LEAVE THE COUNTRY, BUT I ALSO KNOW THAT HEZBOLLAH COULD DEPLOY VIOLENCE INTERNALLY TO IMPOSE THEIR VISION FOR HOW THIS SHOULD GO FORWARD.

AND THEY'VE DONE THIS BEFORE IN LEBANON USING VIOLENCE AGAINST THE LEBANESE AND THE LEBANESE STATE.

>> JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR KIM GHATTAS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

> >> AND FINALLY, IN A MOVING TRIBUTE, THE DAZZLING LIGHTS OF BROADWAY AND LONDON'S WEST END WERE DIMMED LAST NIGHT IN MEMORY OF ROBERT FOX, ONE OF THE MOST DISTINGUISHED THEATER PRODUCERS OF HIS GENERATION.

AS THE LIGHTS WENT DOWN, THE CHEERING BEGAN AS CROWDS GATHERED TO PAY HIM TRIBUTE IN LONDON.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU >> FAMILY, FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES ALSO SANG "HAPPY BIRTHDAY" TO MARK WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FOX'S 74th BIRTHDAY.

HE DIED LAST WEEK OF CANCER.

HIS WIFE FIONA SHARED THESE WORDS WITH US.

>> HE WAS A GENTLEMAN PRODUCER, AND THIS WAS HIS FAMILY FOR A LONG TIME AND NEW YORK AND BROADWAY.

AND IT'S SO WONDERFUL THAT EVERYONE CAN COME AND PAY AND WHOLE FAMILY ARE HERE.

ALL HIS EIGHT GRANDCHILDREN AND HIS FIVE KIDS, AND THAT THERE IS A COMMUNITY.

AND WE CAN BE PROUD OF WHAT HE'S DONE.

>> HIS AVENUE SHAFTESBURY AVENUE THERE IN LONDON.

FROM THE LADY IN THE VAND AND FROST NIXON, HIS WORKS SPANNED DECADES.

HE COLLABORATED WITH EVERYONE FROM THE GRAND DAMES MAGGIE SMITH AND HELEN MIRREN TO HUGH JACKMAN AND MICHAEL SHEEHAN TO DAVID O'HARA AND DAVID BOWIE.

HIS CALMING PRESENCE AND CREATIVE MIND WILL SURELY BE MISSED BY ALL OF THOSE HE WORKED WITH.

MY HIS SOUL BASK IN THE FOOT LIGHTS FOREVER.

> >> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.