Amanpour and Company

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> AS A RESULT THE U. S.

>> BUT THE BACKING OF HEZBOLLAH, CAN PEACE COME TO LEBANON?

ISOBEL YEUNG OFFERS A RARE GLIMPSE INTO THE MILITANT GROUP IN A SPECIAL REPORT.

>> YOU'VE SEEN A LOT OF FIGHTERS DIE.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

>> THEN, PROTESTERS AND OFFICIALS DEMAND ACTION AMID CONCERNS ABOUT CONDITIONS INSIDE AN I. C. E. FACILITY.

I SPEAK TO NPR CORRESPONDENT JASMINE GARSD AND AARON REICHLIN- MELNICK FROM THE AMERICAN IMMIGRATION COUNCIL.

> >> ALSO AHEAD -- >> IT'S POSSIBLE THROUGH BOLD INNOVATION AND SCIENTIFIC RISK-TAKING TO REVOLUTIONIZE THE TREATMENT FOR PATIENTS LIVING WITH THESE COMMON AND OFTEN DIFFICULT TO TREAT CANCERS.

>> A MEDICAL BREAKTHROUGH THAT COULD CHANGE THE LIVES OF MILLIONS.

HOW AN EXPERIMENTAL PILL IS OFFERING NEW HOPE AGAINST THE WORLD'S DEADLIEST CANCER.

CEO OF THE COMPANY BEHIND IT DR.

MARK GOLDSMITH JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THE LONG JOURNEY THAT LED TO THIS MOMENT.

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> >> "AMANPOUR & CO. "

IS MADE POSSIBLE BY --THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND CHARLES ROSEMBLUM.

MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

A STEP FORWARD FOR DIPLOMACY FOLLOWED BY AN IMMEDIATE STEP BACK.

JUST HOURS AFTER ISRAEL AND LEBANON AGREED TO A U. S.

-BROKERED CEASEFIRE, THE LEADERS OF HEZBOLLAH SAID THAT THEY REJECT THE DEAL.

THE TERMS INCLUDED A COMPLETE CESSATION OF HEZBOLLAH FIRE AND A REMOVAL OF THEIR OPERATIVES FROM SOUTHERN LEBANON.

BUT THE IRAN-BACKED MILITANT GROUP INSISTS ANY TRUCE MUST HAVE THE ISRAELI FORCES.

WHETHER THIS LATEST DIPLOMATIC PUSH CAN PRODUCE REAL PROGRESS.

IT'S THE FOURTH CEASEFIRE ANNOUNCEMENT IN JUST SEVEN WEEKS, AND THE U. S. SEEKS TO CLEAR A MAJOR HURDLE ON THE PATH TO A BROADER AGREEMENT TO END THE WAR WITH IRAN.

AND FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP, THE PRESSURE IS ON AFTER THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES BACKED A RESOLUTION TO REIN IN HIS WAR POWERS IN IRAN.

SO WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET HEZBOLLAH ON BOARD?

FOR MORE THAN FOUR DECADES, THE GROUP HAS FACED REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO WEAKEN ITS POWER, YET IT REMAINS A POTENT FORCE IN THE REGION.

CORRESPONDENT ISOBEL YEUNG GAINED RARE ACCESS INSIDE LEBANON TO FIND OUT WHY.

HERE'S HER REPORT.

>> Reporter: SO WE'RE HERE IN THE BEKAA VALLEY WHERE HEZBOLLAH STILL HAVE A VERY TIGHT GRIP ON CONTROL.

AFTER MONTHS OF TRYING, WE'VE MANAGED TO PERSUADE A MAN WHO WE BELIEVE IS AN ARMS DEALER PROVIDING THESE WEAPONS TO HEZBOLLAH TO MEET WITH US.

>> IT SEEMS TO BE JUST OFF THIS ROAD.

NOW JUST GOING OFF THE DIRT TRACK.

IT HAS BEEN STRUCK BY AN AIR STRIKE.

LET'S PUT THE CAMERAS DOWN.

>> Reporter: WE WERE ASKED TO PUT OUR CAMERAS DOWN AND NOT REVEAL THIS LOCATION OR THE IDENTITY OF THIS ARMS DEALER.

HE SAYS HE IS A TARGET FOR THE ISRAELI MILITARY AS THEY TRY TO STOP THE FLOW OF WEAPONS ENTERING LEBANON.

WHAT IS THIS .

>> Reporter: IT'S QUITE A LOT OF WEAPONS YOU HAVE HERE.

WHO IS IT YOU'RE SELLING THESE WEAPONS TO?

>> I MEAN, IF YOU'RE SELLING TO PEOPLE IN THE BEKAA VALLEY, COULD BE WORKING FOR HEZBOLLAH, RIGHT?

>> YOU THINK THAT THESE WEAPONS ARE NEEDED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST ISRAEL?

>> AND IT NEVER KEEPS YOU UP AT NIGHT THAT THESE WEAPONS ARE OBVIOUSLY USED TO KILL PEOPLE?

I MEAN, THERE IS OBVIOUSLY A WAR GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

YOU'RE NOT WORRIED THAT THESE WEAPONS ARE HELPING TO FUEL THAT WAR?

>> Reporter: DRIVING MUCH OF THE DEMAND FOR WEBS IS HEZBOLLAH.

THE IRAN-BACKED MILITANT GROUP DESIGNATED A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION BY THE U. S. , UK, CANADA, AND OTHERS.

HEZBOLLAH IS AN INCREDIBLY SECRETIVE GROUP, BUT WE WANTED TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY'RE STILL STANDING AND WHAT THEY'RE FIGHTING FOR.

AFTER MONTHS OF WORKING WITH CONTACTS ON THE GROUND, WE GAINED EXCLUSIVE ACCESS TO KEY PARTS OF THE GROUP.

AND TO THOSE MOST AFFECTED BY THE WAR.

HEZBOLLAH STRUCK ISRAEL IN SOLIDARITY WITH THE HAMAS OCTOBER 7th ATTACK, TRIGGERING A MASSIVE ISRAELI BOMBARDMENT ACROSS LEBANON.

EVEN SINCE THE NOVEMBER 2024 CEASEFIRE, ACCUSING HEZBOLLAH OF FAILING TO WITHDRAW FROM THE BORDER AREAS.

IN MARCH, HEZBOLLAH FIRED ROCKETS ON ISRAEL AFTER ISRAEL AND THE U. S. ATTACKED IRAN.

THIS SPARKED A LARGE-SCALE GROUND INVASION, DISPLACING OVER A MILLION PEOPLE AND KILLING MORE THAN 3,000, ACCORDING TO THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT.

HEZBOLLAH'S FIGHT COULD BE EXISTENTIAL.

UNDER PRESSURE FROM THE U. S. , THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN TRYING TO DISARM THE GROUP, BUT ISRAEL'S OFFENSIVE HAS GIVEN HEZBOLLAH NEW ZEAL, AND IT HAS VOWED TO FIGHT ON, DESPITE HEAVY LOSSES.

>> THANKS.

>> THIS IS MY FRIEND.

HIS NAME SAM.

2007.

THIS HIS SISTER AND THIS SISTER.

THIS IS A GRANDFATHER AND THIS HIS MOTHER.

>> Reporter: YOU KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED HERE.

>> YES.

ANY OTHER FRIEND ZUR.

>> Reporter: WHEN DID HE DIE?

>> FROM THREE YEARS, I THINK.

>> Reporter: WAS HE A FIGHTER?

>> YES, HE WAS A FIGHTER.

>> Reporter: MOHAMMED FROM THE BEKAA VALLEY SAYS HE'S NOT A MEMBER OF HEZBOLLAH, BUT HE AND MANY OTHERS HERE SEE THE GROUP AS THEIR BEST PROTECTION FROM ISRAELI AGGRESSION.

THIS IS YOUR COUSIN?

>> YES.

>> Reporter: AND HE WAS FIGHTING FOR HEZBOLLAH?

>> YES, YES.

BUT HEZBOLLAH DEFENDS US, DEFENDS US AND DEFENDS OF LEBANON.

>> Reporter: DOES EVERYONE HERE SUPPORT HEZBOLLAH?

>> Reporter: PERHAPS HEZBOLLAH'S GREATEST STRENGTH ARE THE THOUSANDS OF FIGHTERS WILLING TO SACRIFICE THEIR LIVES FOR THE GROUP.

THEY RARELY GIVE INTERVIEWS TO WESTERN MEDIA.

WE HAVE MANAGED TO SECURE A MEETING WITH A MEMBER OF HEZBOLLAH WHO'S BEEN FIGHTING IN THE SOUTH OF LEBANON FOR THE LAST FEW MONTHS, AND HE'S AGREED TO MEET US IN A VERY REMOTE LOCATION, WHICH WE'RE HEADING TOWARDS RIGHT NOW.

>> Reporter: WHY DID YOU JOIN HEZBOLLAH?

>> Reporter: YOU'VE SEEN A LOT OF FIGHTERS DIE.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

>> Reporter: DO YOU THINK THAT FIRING TOWARDS ISRAEL AND ISRAELI TROOPS IS GOING TO CREATE A SAFER LEBANON?

I MEAN, SURELY THAT PUTS LEBANESE PEOPLE AT MORE RISK, KNOWING THAT WHAT THE ISRAELIS WILL HIT BACK WITH.

>> Reporter: BUT I GUESS IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THAT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

IT FEELS LIKE HEZBOLLAH IS TRIGGERING AND CREATING MORE WAR THAN PEACE.

>> Reporter: NOT EVERYONE AGREES.

RECENT POLLS SUGGEST THAT WHILE MOST LEBANESE VIEW ISRAEL AS AN ENEMY, EVEN MORE ARE CRITICAL OF IRANIAN INVOLVEMENT IN LEBANON.

AMONG THOSE FORCED TO FLEE THEIR HOME, ISMONA, A SHIA MUSLIM SCHOOL TEACHER FROM THE SOUTHERN CITY OF TEA.

SO MANY DISPLACED PEOPLE ACROSS THE WHOLE OF LEBANON.

IT'S CRAZY.

>> IT'S THE MOST MISERABLE DISPLACEMENT EVER THAT HAPPENED IN LEBANON.

>> Reporter: THIS IS AN ISRAELI DRONE OVERHEAD?

>> I CAN'T SEE IT.

WE HEAR IT.

>> Reporter: YOU CAN HEAR IT.

>> WE COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER WITHOUT GETTING INVOLVED IN THIS WAR.

WHAT THE HELL DID WE HAVE TO DO, PUT OURSELVES IN THE MIDDLE OF HELL.

IN 2024, MY HOUSE WAS ALMOST DEVASTATED.

IT TOOK ME A YEAR TO RECONSTRUCT IT, TO REDO EVERYTHING.

I DN'T EVEN TOOK A DEEP BREATH, THEN ANOTHER WAR.

THIS IS TOO MUCH.

THIS IS TOO MUCH FOR THE PEOPLE OF LEBANON.

>> Reporter: YOU KNOW, ISRAEL ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE DISPLACED PEOPLE, DESTROYED ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOODS, KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

>> WE KNOW THAT ISRAEL IS A VERY HOSTILE AND AGGRESSIVE COUNTRY, AND IT IS HIGHLY AND TECHNOLOGICALLY ARMED.

NOBODY HAS DOUBTS ABOUT THIS.

TAKE THIS EXAMPLE.

THERE IS A FEROCIOUS LION.

I TELL YOU KEEP YOUR HAND AWAY FROM THE LION.

HE MIGHT BITE YOU.

HE WILL BITE YOU, OKAY.

BUT YOU KEEP ON TEASING HIM.

SO HE BITES YOU, AND MORE THAN THAT, YOU RELEASE THE LION AGAINST EVERYONE AROUND YOU, OKAY.

THIS IS WHAT HEZBOLLAH HAS DONE.

LET THE LION STAY IN ITS PLACE.

>> Reporter: WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO THE HEZBOLLAH LEADERS?

>> LET US LIVE IN PEACE.

IF YOU WANT TO FIGHT FOR IRAN, GO TO IRAN, BUT LET US LIVE IN PEACE.

>> Reporter: LEBANON'S GOVERNMENT HAS TRIED TO CONTAIN HEZBOLLAH AND TO STOP IT FROM ATTACKING ISRAEL.

BUT ITS ABILITY TO DO THAT IS LIMITED.

MANY FEARED THAT DIRECT CONFRONTATION WITH HEZBOLLAH RISKS IGNITING SECTARIAN STRIFE AND EVEN CIVIL WAR.

>> Reporter: FOR DECADES, HEZBOLLAH HAS STEPPED IN WHERE THE STATE HAS FAILED, PROVIDING HEALTH CARE, SOCIAL SERVICES, SECURITY.

HEZBOLLAH OFFICIALS LIKE IBRAHIM MASAWI EVEN HOLD SEATS IN PARLIAMENT.

THE U. S. AND ISRAEL WANT HEZBOLLAH DISARMED.

THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT ITSELF ALSO WANTS HEZBOLLAH DISARMED.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT, IF THE LEBANESE MILITARY TRIED TO DO THAT?

>> THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN, I CAN ASSURE YOU.

WE WANT OUR ARMY TO DEFEND OUR COUNTRY.

YOUR ARMY IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH.

>> Reporter: HAS HEZBOLLAH DECIDED TO ENTER THIS WAR ON MARCH 2nd?

YOU KNEW BEFORE STARTING THIS WAR THAT THE ISRAELI RESPONSE WOULD BE HUGE, THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WERE LIKELY TO DIE, WHICH THEY HAVE.

WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE THAT THAT LEVEL OF HUMAN SUFFERING WHICH WE WITNESSED OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS WAS WORTH IT?

>> I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO THE PHILOSOPHY OF LIFE AND DEATH HERE.

THE ISRAELIS CONTINUE TO CARRY AGGRESSION.

SO THERE WAS THE ONE POINT WHEN WE HAVE TO RESPOND TO ALL OF THIS AGGRESSIONS.

WHEN THE ISRAELI-AMERICAN WAR AGAIN, THEY STARTED THE WAR AGAINST IRAN, WE FELT THIS IS A PROPER WINDOW TO RESPOND.

>> Reporter: THEY'VE BEEN TARGETING SOME CIVILIAN AREAS.

THAT HAS TRIGGERED A HUGE ISRAELI RESPONSE, AND WE'VE SEEN THOUSANDS OF LEBANESE PEOPLE KILLED.

WE'VE SEEN OVER A MILLION PEOPLE DISPLACED.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS HAPPENING?

>> Reporter: DO YOU TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY?

I'M GOING TO ASK YOU.

LET ME ASK, LET ME ASK.

DO YOU TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL?

YOUR ACTIONS ON MARCH 2nd TRIGGERING THIS MASSIVE HUMAN SUFFERING?

>> DOES YOUR GOVERNMENT TAKE A RESPONSIBILITY?

DOES THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT TAKE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR UNLEASHING THE ISRAELI FULL MIGHTY POWER OF KILLING AND MAKING GENOCIDE?

DO THEY DO THIS?

WE'RE PROTECTING OURSELVES.

I'M ASKING YOU ABOUT THE RESISTANCE.

>> Reporter: YOU ACTED ON MARCH 2nd.

I'M ASKING IF YOUR ACTIONS ON MARCH 2nd BEAR ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE KILLED, INCLUDING HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY BASED RESPONSIBILITY.

AMERICA BEARS THE RESPONSIBILITY.

WHEN TRUMP IS CAPABLE TO RESTRAIN THE ISRAELIS, THE CRIMINALS, I BELIEVE THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION HOLD THE FIRST RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL OF THE KILLINGS THAT HAPPENED.

>> Reporter: BUT APART FROM APPEASING IRAN, WHAT ELSE HAS THIS WAR ACTUALLY ACHIEVED?

THERE HAVE BEEN HUGE AMOUNTS OF MASS HUMAN SUFFERING.

>> YOU'RE USING THE SAME EQUATION BUT IN JOURNALISTIC TERMS THAT THE ISRAELIS ARE DOING.

WHAT THE ISRAELIS ARE DOING, SIMPLY, THEY ARE, IF YOU CARRY ON AN OPERATION, OR IF YOU DEFEND YOURSELF AGAINST THEIR INCURSION INTO A CERTAIN VILLAGE, THEY'LL DESTROY THE VILLAGE.

TO TELL YOU WHAT?

NEVER THINK TO DEFEND YOURSELF AGAIN.

NEVER THINK TO STAND UP FOR THE ISRAELI MIGHTY FORCE.

I WANT TO BREAK THIS CYCLE.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE PARENTS OF THE HUNDREDS OF KIDS WHO HAVE DIED?

WHAT DID THEY DIE FOR?

>> I BELIEVE THIS QUESTION, YOU SHOULD SAY TO DONALD TRUMP AND TO BENJAMIN NETANYAHU.

WE ARE DEFENDING OUR PEOPLE.

GO BACK TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AT THE FUNERALS AND ASK THEM.

YOU'RE IN LEBANON NOW, AND YOU CAN SEE.

>> Reporter: SINCE MARCH, AROUND 200 CHILDREN HAVE BEEN KILLED IN LEBANON.

JUST ABSOLUTELY HEARTBREAKING.

THE BODY AFTER BODY AFTER BODY, TINY LITTLE BODIES.

THESE ONES HAPPEN TO BE CARRIED ON THE BED BECAUSE THERE IS JUST ONLY PARTS AND REMNANTS AND PIECES OF THEM LEFT.

IN JUST ONE STRIKE IN MARCH, FIVE CHILDREN WERE KILLED.

6-YEAR- OLD YASMINA, 9-YEAR-OLD MALIKA, 11-YEAR-OLD SADDIQ, 12-YEAR- OLD ZARA, AND 13-YEAR-OLD ZAINAB.

>> Reporter: THESE KIDS OBVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN OUT OF SCHOOL SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR.

AND THIS GROUP NOW IS TRYING TO DO SOME ACTIVITIES WITH THEM, TRY TO HAVE SOME SEMBLANCE OF NORMALCY IN THEIR LIVES WHICH HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN COMPLETELY DISRUPTED.

>> Reporter: AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TRIES TO REIN IN BOTH SIDES, THE PEOPLE OF LEBANON ARE TRAPPED BETWEEN A DIE-HARD MILITANT FORCE BACKED BY NEWLY EMBOLDENED IRAN AND THE ISRAELI MILITARY.

WAGING A BRUTAL WAR.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE POWER OVER THIS WAR RIGHT NOW?

>> WITH NO CEASEFIRE IN SIGHT NOW, IT'S ORDINARY LEBANESE CITIZENS WHO ARE PAYING THE HIGHEST PRICE.

SO WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO BRING THE FIGHTING TO AN END?

AND IS THERE ANYTHING THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT CAN DO TO REIN IN HEZBOLLAH'S GRIP ON POWER?

LET'S BRING BACK IN ISOBEL YEUNG JOINING THE SHOW FROM LONDON.

FIRST OF ALL, JUST SUCH AN IMPORTANT AND MOVING PIECE THERE, ISOBEL.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE WORK YOU DID AND FOR TAKING THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH SO MANY THERE ON THE GROUND, THOSE WHO ARE FIGHTING FOR HEZBOLLAH, THOSE WHO ARE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL, AND OF COURSE THE YOUNGEST VICTIMS, OBVIOUSLY THE CHILDREN.

THIS IS, AS WE NOTED, THE FOURTH CEASEFIRE THAT'S BEING DISCUSSED NOW IN SOME SEVEN WEEKS' TIME.

I'M WONDERING, GIVEN ALL OF YOUR TIME THERE SPEAKING WITH THOSE CIVILIANS AND THOSE HEZBOLLAH MEMBERS IS THERE A SENSE THAT THIS TIME COULD BE A FINAL DEAL?

>> I MEAN, I THINK IT'S EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE THIRD TIME IN JUST IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THAT WE'VE SEEN AN ATTEMPTED DEAL BETWEEN THESE TWO COUNTRIES.

BACK IN 2024, EARLIER THIS YEAR, AND OF COURSE NOW.

AND OBVIOUSLY THE STICKING POINT HERE IS HEZBOLLAH.

I MEAN, WE HAVE SEEN THAT FOR THIS DEAL TO ACTUALLY HAPPEN AND FOR A CEASEFIRE TO ACTUALLY BE IMPLEMENTED THAT BOTH SIDES WOULD OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO STOP FIRING AT EACH OTHER.

HEZBOLLAH WOULD HAVE TO WITHDRAW FROM CERTAIN AREAS OF THE SOUTH, AND THEY'D ALSO HAVE TO GIVE UP THEIR ARMS.

AS YOU SAW, WE SPOKE TO VARIOUS MEMBERS OF HEZBOLLAH THROUGHOUT OUR TIME IN LEBANON, AND THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY ADAMANT THAT THAT CANNOT HAPPEN, AND THEY WILL NOT BE DICTATED TO BY THE U. S. YOU GOT TO REMEMBER THAT HEZBOLLAH'S VERY JUSTIFICATION FOR EXISTING IS TO DEFEND LEBANON, AND THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS THE PROTECTORS OF LEBANESE PEOPLE.

AND AS WE'VE SEEN THE ISRAELI MILITARY OCCUPY SOUTHERN LEBANON SINCE MARCH, IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE HEZBOLLAH ACTUALLY LAYING DOWN THEIR ARMS WHILE ISRAELI TROOPS REMAIN IN THEIR COUNTRY.

>> HEZBOLLAH AS AN ORGANIZATION IS DEEMED BY MOST WESTERN COUNTRIES AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

IT IS DEEPLY INGRAINED IN LEBANON IN SOCIETY THERE AND ITS POLITICAL SYSTEM AS WELL.

AND AS YOU NOTE, PER POLLING, IT DOES SEEM THAT SOMETHING HAS CHANGED.

THE TIDE HAS TURNED, ESPECIALLY WITH LEBANON -- WITH HEZBOLLAH'S DECISION TO ENTER THIS WAR NOW BETWEEN ISRAEL, THE UNITED STATES, AND IRAN.

IT WAS FASCINATING TO HEAR THAT SCHOOL TEACHER TELL YOU THAT IF THESE FIGHTERS WANT TO GO FIGHT FOR IRAN, THEY SHOULD GO TO IRAN.

DOES THAT GIVE, IN YOUR VIEW, THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT MORE POWER, MORE OPPORTUNITY TO STAND UP TO HEZBOLLAH AS THEY'VE BEEN CLAIMING THEY HAVE A MANDATE TO DO NOW, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DEARM, AND TO SIGN POTENTIAL CEASEFIRE DEALS WITH ISRAEL.

>> I MEAN, IT'S DIFFICULT TO KNOW.

OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE SEEN HEZBOLLAH TAKE A REAL BATTERING OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS IN 2024, AND OBVIOUSLY AGAIN THIS YEAR, THE ISRAELI MILITARY HAVE GONE AFTER HEZBOLLAH KEY INFRASTRUCTURE.

AS YOU SAW IN OUR PIECE, THEY KILLED MANY FIGHTERS.

THEY'VE ALSO GONE AFTER KEY COMMANDERS.

IN FACT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MEET WITH ONE OF THEM, BUT HEZBOLLAH SO CONCERNED THAT ISRAELIS WOULD FIND OUT THE LOCATION OF SOME OF THEIR FEW REMAINING COMMANDERS, WE WEREN'T ABLE TO.

HEZBOLLAH STILL DOES HAVE SEVERAL STRENGTHS.

THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THESE WEAPONS.

WE KNOW THAT THEY STILL HAVE A STOCKPILE OF WEAPONS.

WE KNOW THAT THEY ARE STILL SMUGGLING WEAPONS OVER THOSE BORDERS AND THAT THEY ARE USING A MANUFACTURING DRONES, FIBEROPTIC DRONES.

THEY'VE BEEN QUITE EFFECTIVELY TO THE SURPRISE OF SOME IN ISRAEL TARGETING THE ISRAELI MILITARY WITH.

DOMESTICALLY, AS YOU SAID, WE HAVE SEEN POLLS THAT SUGGEST THAT THE POPULARITY OF HEZBOLLAH IS QUESTIONABLE.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT AS THIS WAR HAS DRAGGED ON, YOU KNOW, IT STARTED OUT THAT MANY PEOPLE WERE VERY RESENTFUL OF HEZBOLLAH.

FOLK WE HAVE SPOKEN TO WOULD SUGGEST THAT HEZBOLLAH IS NOW STARTING TO AND HAS SUCCESSFULLY STARTED TO REPOSITION THEMSELVES AGAIN AS THE DEFENDERS OF LEBANON.

>> AND THAT MAKES THINGS MORE CHALLENGING, NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF A CEASEFIRE, BUT FOR THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT ITSELF.

ISOBEL YEUNG, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR REPORTING.

> >> NEXT, HELD WITHOUT CONVICTION, FED MAGGOT-INFESTED MEALS WITH LIMITED ACCESS TO MEDICAL CARE, AND WITH NO IDEA WHEN THEY'LL BE FREED.

ACCORDING TO MANY OF THE 60,000 PEOPLE CURRENTLY HELD IN DETENTION ACROSS AMERICA, THIS IS THE REALITY OF DAILY LIFE.

SOME ARE AS YOUNG AS 5 YEARS OLD.

THAT'S WHY HUNDREDS OF DETAINEES AT DELANEY HALL DETENTION CENTER HAVE BEEN ON STRIKE.

OUTSIDE THE PROTESTS ESCALATED WITH I. C. E. OFFICERS USING TEAR GAS AGAINST DEMONSTRATORS REFUSING TO DISPERSE.

NOW REPUBLICANS ARE PUSHING AHEAD WITH A PACKAGE THAT WOULD PROVIDE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN NEW FUNDING FOR IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.

FOR MORE ON THIS, I'M JOINED BY JASMINE GARSD, IMMIGRATION CORRESPONDENT FOR NPR AND AARON REICHLIN-MELNICK, SENIOR FELLOW AT THE AMERICAN IMMIGRATION COUNCIL.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU.

JASMINE, WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT THE CONDITIONS NOW AT DELANEY HALL?

>> I MEAN, WHAT I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT IS WHAT I'VE BEEN HEARING, WHICH IS INSUFFICIENT MEDICAL ATTENTION, FOOD NOT ONLY --IT'S NOTE ENOUGH TO SAY IN BAD STATE.

WE'VE HEARD REPORTS OF FOOD WITH MAGGOTS IN IT.

AND AGAIN, LACK OF ATTENTION TO MEDICAL CONDITIONS.

AND I SHOULD BE CLEAR.

I'VE BEEN REPORTING ON CONDITIONS IN ICE DETENTION SINCE TRUMP TOOK OFFICE.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

THIS IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM DIFFERENT DETENTION CENTERS, YOU KNOW, AND I'VE BEEN HEARING IT FROM CHILDREN AS YOUNG AS 5 YEARS OLD.

AND SO I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY IT IS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THAT I HEAR ABOUT THESE PRETTY HORRIFIC CONDITIONS WHILE IN I. C. E. DETENTION.

>> AND WHAT ARE CONDITIONS LIKE OUTSIDE OF THE FACILITY?

WE'VE BEEN REPORTING ON A NUMBER OF PROTESTS THAT CONTINUE TO ESCALATE.

NEWARK POLICE WERE CONFRONTING PROTESTERS THIS WEEK.

TWO PROTESTERS WERE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY.

HOW MUCH CONCERN IS THERE THAT OUTSIDE OF THIS DETENTION CENTER, THINGS COULD TURN EVEN MORE CHAOTIC?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CRITICISM OVER, YOU KNOW, THE DECISION TO SEND STATE POLICE AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT THIS COULD TURN INTO MINNEAPOLIS 2.

0.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE HEARING ABOUT THESE HORRIFIC CONDITIONS INSIDE AND THERE'S AMPLE CONCERN ABOUT IT.

YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T JUST THE FOOD IS IN BAD STATE.

RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, IN I. C. E. DETENTION FACILITIES, WE HAVE SEEN A HISTORIC NUMBER OF DEATHS.

THERE HAVE BEEN 51 DEATHS IN I. C. E. DETENTION IN THE LAST YEAR ALONE.

AND THAT IS A NUMBER WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

SO THESE CONDITIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

>> AARON, I WANT TO BRING YOU IN HERE BECAUSE NEW YORK'S ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE PRIVATE COMPANY THAT'S OPERATING DELANEY HALL.

THAT IS THE GIO GROUP.

NEW YORK ALSO FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST THIS SAME GROUP.

DOES NEW JERSEY HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT TO INSPECT THIS PRIVATE FACILITY?

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST CONTESTED ASPECTS OF THIS CASE, BECAUSE LEGISLATORS AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET INSIDE DELANEY HALL SINCE IT OPENED LAST YEAR.

THE FACILITY OPENED WITH A NUMBER OF PROBLEMS ALREADY WITHIN ITS FIRST TWO MONTHS, THERE WERE PROTESTS INSIDE THE FACILITY AND A BREAKOUT, ONE OF TELEPHONE FIRST EVER FROM AN I. C. E. DETENTION FACILITY AS PEOPLE PROTESTED AGAINST INADEQUATE FOOD AND MEDICAL CARE JUST LAST YEAR.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS THAT STATE GOVERNMENTS HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO REGULATE I. C. E. DETENTION CENTERS, AND THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF COURT CASES OVER THIS.

SO THIS IS SOMETHING WE'LL HAVE TO SEE PLAY OUT IN COURT.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHETHER OR NOT THIS BECOMES A LEGALLY MIRED QUESTION, WHY DO YOU THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WON'T JUST LET INSPECTORS IN NOW, GIVEN ALL THE HEADLINES AND NEGATIVE PRESS THIS IS GENERATING?

>> WHAT WE'VE SEEN THIS ADMINISTRATION DO IS PREFUSE TO BACK DOWN.

IN A NUMBER OF VERY HIGH PROFILE INCIDENTS, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IS WRONG INSIDE THESE DETENTION CENTER.

THEIR OFFICIAL LINE IS PEOPLE IN I. C. E. DETENTION ARE BEING TREATED BETTER THAN ANY LAWBREAKER IN HUMAN HISTORY, AND THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WILL HOLD UP TO INSPECTIONS, WHICH MAY BE A REASON THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT.

>> .

>> WELL, HERE IS HOW I. C. E. HAS RESPONDED ON X. THE FACTS A AS FOLLOWING.

ALL DETAINEES ARE PROVIDED WITH THREE MEALS A DAY, CLEAN WATER, SOAP AND TOILETRIES.

ILLEGAL ALIENS ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO PHONES TO COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS AND LAWYERS, CERTIFIED DIETITIANS EVALUATE MEALS.

I. C. E. HAS HIGHER STANDARDS THAN MOST U. S. PRISONS THAT HOLD ACTUAL U. S. CITIZENS.

JASMINE, DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THOSE STATEMENTS?

>> SURE.

HERE'S SOME OTHER FACTS.

THE FACTS ALSO ARE THAT THERE ARE AN UNPRECEDENTED NUMBER OF IMMIGRANTS IN DETENTION, AROUND 60,000 CONSISTENTLY.

THE FACTS ALSO ARE THAT AROUND 70% OF THOSE PEOPLE HAVE NO CRIMINAL CONVICTION.

AND IMMIGRATION LAWYERS I'VE SPOKEN TO HAVE TOLD ME THAT THEY BELIEVE THESE CONDITIONS IN I. C. E. DETENTION ARE MEANT TO BREAK PEOPLE INTO OPTING FOR VOLUNTARY LEAVE.

IN OTHER WORDS, THAT THE IMMIGRANT THEMSELVES PAYS TO BE SENT AWAY.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THAT.

WE'VE SEEN A SKYROCKETING OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ESSENTIALLY TAPPING OUT BECAUSE CONDITIONS ARE SO BAD.

AROUND 90,000 PEOPLE HAVE ASKED FOR VOLUNTARY DEPARTURE IN THE LAST --DURING THIS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THAT IS SEVEN TIMES WHAT WE HAVE SEEN DURING THE LAST YEAR OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

SO CONDITIONS ARE SO HORRIFIC IN THESE PLACES THAT I MEAN, I'VE SPOKEN TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE VERY INTENSE FEARS OF GOING BACK HOME, WHO HAVE TOLD ME, YOU KNOW, I THINK I COULD BE KILLED IF I GO BACK HOME, AND WHO HAVE STILL SAID YOU KNOW WHAT?

I CANNOT DO ANOTHER 12 MONTHS OF THIS.

I CANNOT DO IT.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE UNPRECEDENTED STATISTICS HERE AND REALITY, JASMINE.

AARON, I. C. E. DETENTION CENTERS DREW COMPLAINTS UNDER THE OBAMA AND BIDEN ADMINISTRATIONS AS WELL.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE THIS TIME?

>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

AT THE AMERICAN IMMIGRATION COUNCIL, WE HAVE FILED COMPLAINTS ABOUT CONDITIONS INSIDE DETENTION CENTERS FOR MANY YEARS, INCLUDING UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, AND EVEN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

BUT WE ARE SEEING A SCALE AND PACE OF DETENTION THAT IS TOTALLY UNPRECEDENTED.

SINCE TAKING OFFICE, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION EXPANDED DETENTION BY OVER 75%, RISING FROM AN AVERAGE OF 40,000 PEOPLE IN CUSTODY PER DAY ON AVERAGE AT THE START OF HIS TERM TO A PEAK OF OVER 73,000 PEOPLE IN CUSTODY IN EARLY JANUARY DURING THE HEIGHT OF OPERATION METRO SURGE IN MINNEAPOLIS.

AND THE INTERNAL WATCHDOGS AND AGENCIES WHOSE JOB IT IS TO ENSURE THE STANDARDS ARE FOLLOWED HAVE BEEN PUSHED OUT.

THE OFFICE OF IMMIGRATION DETENTION OM BUDSMAN HAS BEEN SLASHED AND ELIMINATED ENTIRELY.

DHS CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES WASH DOG HAS BEEN PUSHED OUT.

A AND THE MESSAGE FROM ON HIGH IS IF THERE ARE ABUSES IN ADMINISTRATION, THE ADMINISTRATION IS GOING TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO IT.

AND THAT HAS LED TO CONDITIONS THAT APPEAR TO BE FAR WORSE THAN ANYTHING WE'VE SEEN BEFORE.

>> AND AS YOU'VE NOTED, JASMINE, THIS EXTENDS BEYOND JUST DELANEY HALL.

YOU VISITED SOME OF THESE OTHER DETENTION CENTERS AS WELL.

CAN YOU GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT YOU SAW AND WHAT YOU HEARD FROM DETAINEES?

>> RIGHT.

I'VE SPOKEN TO DETAINEES.

I'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO DETAINEES AT THESE FACILITIES SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP TOOK OFFICE, AND I CAN TELL YOU THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

I CAN TELL YOU STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE VERY SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITIONS AND WHO HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN MEDICAL ATTENTION.

PROBABLY THE ONE THAT HAS STUCK MOST WITH ME AS A JOURNALIST WAS THE STORY OF A FAMILY I INTERVIEWED WHO SPENT AROUND 320 DAYS AT THE DILLEY DETENTION CENTER IN TEXAS.

AND THAT FAMILY, IT WAS A MOTHER.

IT WAS TWO TEENAGERS, A 9-YEAR-OLD, AND TWO 5- YEAR-OLD TWINS.

AND THE CONDITIONS THEY WERE DESCRIBING WERE QUITE SIMILAR.

A LACK OF MEDICAL ATTENTION, LACK OF NOT JUST LACK OF PROPER NUTRITION.

FOOD WITH WORMS.

AT ONE POINT ONE OF THE KIDS TOLD ME ABOUT FINDING A HUMAN FINGERNAIL IN THEIR FOOD.

LACK OF ACCESS TO EDUCATION.

AND JUST TO PIGGYBACK ON WHAT AARON WAS SAYING JUST NOW, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THIS WHOLE PROCESS OF MASSIVE EXPANSION OF THE DETENTION SYSTEM, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY HAND OVER FIST PROFITS THAT ARE BEING MADE OFF OF THIS.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FACILITY DELANEY IN NEW JERSEY, THAT FACILITY IS OWNED BY ONE OF THE MAJOR CONTRACTORS, WHICH IS GEO GROUP.

BETWEEN 2024 AND 2025, GEO GROUP HAD A 700% PROFIT INCREASE.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS MASSIVE EXPANSION AND THE SYSTEM THAT IS BEING BUILT TO FUNNEL PEOPLE, MOST OF WHOM DO NOT HAVE CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS INTO THESE DETENTION CENTERS, IT IS IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY IS BEING MADE OFF OF THIS.

>> YEAH, AND IT'S ALSO WORTH NOTING THAT I. C. E. ALONE, I. C. E.

'S BUDGET OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS HAS GONE FROM $10 BILLION TO $58 BILLION, AND JUST TODAY THE SENATE IS DEBATING A $70 BILLION FUNDING BILL THAT WOULD FUND I. C. E. AND BORDER PATROL AND DHS AGENCIES, ON TOP OF THE $75 BILLION THAT WAS INCLUDED IN LAST YEAR'S BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL.

JASMINE, AARON, I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE OF YOU IS BEST TO ASK THIS QUESTION, BUT WHERE IS THAT MONEY GOING?

>> WELL, RIGHT NOW WE ARE SEEING A LARGE PORTION OF THIS FUNDING GO TO DETENTION CENTERS.

A AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS REPORTEDLY ALLOCATED ABOUT 75% OF THE $75 BILLION IT GOT ALREADY.

OF THAT MONEY, $45 BILLION IS GOING TO IMMIGRATION DETENTION.

THEY'VE USED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THAT TO INCREASE THE BEDS FROM 40,000 UP TO 70,000, THOUGH RIGHT NOW WE KNOW IT'S CLOSER TO 60,000 AS THEY HAVE QUIETED DOWN A LITTLE BIT IN THE AFTERMATHS OF THE KILLINGS OF RENEE GOOD AND ALEX PRETTI AND OPERATION SURGE.

THEY'VE SPENT $1 BILLION ALREADY IN PURCHASING COMMERCIAL WAREHOUSES THAT THEY FULLY INTEND TO CONVERT INTO MASSIVE DETENTION CENTERS.

AND WHILE THIS PLAN IS GETTING OFF THE GROUND A LITTLE SLOWER THAN THEY EXPECTED, IT SEEMS THE ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO EXPAND TO AS MANY AS 24 WAREHOUSE DETENTION CENTERS, SOME THAT COULD HOLD UPWARDS OF 8,000 PEOPLE, WHICH WOULD EACH MAKE THEM INDIVIDUALLY THE LARGEST FEDERAL PRISONS IN U. S. , IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES SYSTEM, BIGGER THAN ANY FEDERAL PRISON, AND BIGGER THAN, INDEED, ANY STATE OR LOCAL PRISON THAT EXISTS IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

>> AND I. C. E. OFFICIALS CONTINUE TO DESCRIBE THESE DETAINEES AS THOSE THE WORST OF THE WORST, THOSE WHO HAVE COMMITTED HEINOUS CRIMES.

AARON, YOUR ORGANIZATION ACTUALLY TRACKS WHO I. C. E. IS DETAINING.

DOES THAT MATCH UP WITH THEIR DESCRIPTION?

>> IT REALLY DOESN'T.

I. C. E. ACTUALLY PUBLISHES SOME DATA ON WHO IT'S DETAINING, AND IT BREAKS DOWN THE DATA BETWEEN WHO HAS NO CRIMINAL RECORD WHATSOEVER, WHO HAS A PENDING CRIMINAL CHARGE FOR ANY KIND OF OFFENSE, AND WHO HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF ANY OFFENSE, NO MATTER HOW SMALL.

AND WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT ONLY ABOUT 14% OF PEOPLE THAT I. C. E. HAS EVEN ARRESTED HAVE ANY SORT OF SERIOUS VIOLENT OFFENSE.

AND RIGHT NOW THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE BEING HELD IN DETENTION HAVE NO CRIMINAL RECORD AT ALL.

AND INDEED, WHEN WE LOOK BACK DURING THE PEAK OF I. C. E. ARRESTS IN MINNEAPOLIS, 47% OF PEOPLE THAT I. C. E. WAS ARRESTING NATIONWIDE HAD NEVER BEEN ARRESTED FOR ANY OFFENSE, AND THOSE WHO DID HAVE SOME INTERACTION WITH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, THE MOST COMMON OFFENSES WERE LOW LEVEL McDONALD'SS, TRAFFIC OFFENSES, AND THINGS THAT CERTAINLY DON'T MAKE ANYONE, QUOTE, THE WORST OF THE WORST.

>> JASMINE, YOU SPENT TIME OUTSIDE DELANEY HALL.

WE SHOULD NOTE THE UPCOMING WORLD CUP KICK OFF IN JUST DAYS.

YOU ARE A 15-MINUTE DRIVE AT THAT POINT FROM DELANEY HALL FROM WHERE MANY OF THESE MATCHES, INCLUDING THE FINALS WILL BE PLAYED.

HOW MUCH IS THE CONCERN OF THE ROLE I. C. E. WILL HAVE DURING THIS WORLD CUP?

>> YEAH, I MEAN I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW --IT JUST KEPT COMING TO MIND, YOU KNOW, THAT HOW CLOSE DELANEY HALL IS TO WHERE THE WORLD CUP FINAL IS GOING TO BE PLAYED.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ON MY MIND.

NOW I. C. E. OFFICIALS HAVE SAID THAT THESE GAMES ARE NOT GOING TO BE PLACES WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE DOING ROUNDUPS.

THAT'S NOT THE GOAL THAT DHS IS GOING TO HAVE A PRESENCE AS IT WOULD AT ANY OTHER INTERNATIONAL EVENT BEING HELD ON U. S. SOIL.

BUT NEVERTHELESS, I THINK THERE IS -- IT'S NOT THAT I THINK, I KNOW THERE IS A CLIMATE OF FEAR AROUND FANS IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES WHO HAPPEN TO LOVE SOCCER, WHO HAPPEN TO LOVE FOOTBALL, AND WHO --LISTEN, I'VE SPENT THE LAST YEAR OR SO TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE AFRAID TO GO PICK UP THEIR KIDS AT SCHOOL, WHO ARE AFRAID TO THE SUPERMARKET.

AND SO WHY WOULDN'T THEY BE AFRAID TO GOOD TO A SOCCER MATCH OR TO A SOCCER WATCH PARTY.

I THINK IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT THAT THIS WORLD CUP IS HAPPENING SIMULTANEOUSLY AS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SEEING THIS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME, JASMINE GARSD, AND AARON REICHLIN- MELNICK.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> NOW TO A MEDICAL BREAKTHROUGH THAT IS DOUBLING THE SURVIVAL TIME FOR PATIENTS WITH ONE OF THE MOST AGGRESSIVE FORMS OF CANCER.

A NEW PILL TAKEN DAILY TO TREAT PANCREATIC CANCER HAS SHOWN POSITIVE FINDINGS IN A STUDY WITH 500 PATIENTS.

SCIENTISTS FOUND THE DRUG REDUCED THE RISK OF DEATH BY 60% COMPARED TO CHEMOTHERAPY.

DR.

MARK GOLDSMITH, THE CEO OF THE BIOTECH COMPANY WHICH FUNDED THIS DEVELOPMENT, JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THE LANDMARK TREATMENT.

>> BIANNA, THANKS.

DR.

MARK GOLDSMITH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU'RE THE CEO OF REVOLUTION MEDICINES.

IT'S A BIOTECH COMPANY.

ACCORDING TO THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, THE FIVE-YEAR SURVIVAL RATE FOR PEOPLE WITH IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY --PANCREATIC CANCER, IT'S ABOUT 13%.

BEFORE I GET INTO WHAT IS KIND OF INTERESTING AND INTERESTING ABOUT YOUR MEDICINE, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY PANCREATIC CANCER IS SO DIFFICULT TO BEAT.

>> THANK YOU, HARI.

IT'S REALLY A PLEASURE TO BE ON WITH YOU.

THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT FOR PATIENTS WHO ARE LIVING WITH CANCERS CAUSED BY SOMETHING CALLED RAS PROTEINS.

THEY'RE THE MOST COMMON CAUSE OF HUMAN CANCERS.

AND THE RESULTS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY ARE OF SUCH SNUGS THAT SIGNIFICANCE THAT IT'S POSSIBLE THROUGH BOLD INNOVATION AND SCIENTIFIC RISK-TAKING TO REVOLUTIONIZE THE TREATMENT FOR PATIENTS LIVING WITH THESE COMMON AND OFTEN DIFFICULT TO TREAT CANCERS.

PANCREATIC CANCER IS ONE OF THOSE.

MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE DIAGNOSED WITH PANCREATIC CANCER ALREADY HAVE RELATIVELY ADVANCED DISEASE, AND THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO TRY TO UNWIND AND REALLY THE ONLY TREATMENTS FOR THE MOST PART THAT WE'VE HAD FOR MOST PATIENTS WITH PANCREATIC CANCER, PARTICULARLY THOSE WITH METASTATIC PANCREATIC CANCER IS STANDARD CHEMOTHERAPY.

AND IT HAS JUST NOT PERFORMED AT THE LEVEL THAT ANY PATIENT OR THEIR FAMILY OR PHYSICIAN WOULD LIKE.

AND SO THERE'S BEEN AN ENORMOUS PUSH TO TRY TO FIND NEW WAYS TO TACKLE THE UNDERLYING CAUSES OF THE CANCER, NOT JUST TO TRY TO USE CHEMICALS TO KILL TUMORS.

>> SO WHAT DOES THIS PROTEIN DO TO A HEALTHY CELL?

AND I GUESS WHAT DOES YOUR MEDICINE DO TO THAT PROTEIN?

>> YES.

RAS PROTEINS ARE ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL TO EVERY NORMAL CELL IN THE HUMAN BODY.

THEY ACT AS A SWITCH.

THEY CONTROL NORMAL CELL GROWTH.

SO WE'RE HAPPY AND FEELING GOOD WHEN RAS PROTEINS ARE DOING WHAT THEY SHOULD DO.

UNFORTUNATELY, IN 20 TO 30% OF HUMAN CANCERS, THAT SWITCH CAN GET STUCK IN THE ON POSITION, MEANING THAT A GENETIC CHANGE IN THE GENE IN CODING FOR A RAS PROTEIN CAUSES THE RAS PROTEIN TO STAY IN THE ON POSITION AND TO HAVE TROUBLE TOGGLING TO OFF.

AND AS A RESULT, IT'S SENDING SIGNALS WITHIN THE CELL TO GROW AND THEN TO GROW UNCONTROLLABLY, AND THAT CAN LEAD TO A MALL LEGSY.

PANCREATIC CANCER IS ONE DISEASE WHICH IS ALMOST ENTIRELY CAUSED BY RAS PROTEINS.

NEARLY EVERYBODY WHO HAS PANCREATIC CANCER HAS ALTERED RAS PROTEINS WITHIN THE TUMOR, AND THEREFORE TRYING TO TARGET THOSE RAS PROTEINS SEEMS LIKE THE MOST LOGICAL WAY TO GO ABOUT THINGS, BUT THAT'S BEEN DIFFICULT OVER MANY DECADES.

>> OKAY.

SO HOW DID YOUR MEDICINE WORK?

WHAT IS THE -- WHAT IS THE SORT OF KEY HERE?

BECAUSE IF THESE PROTEINS ARE IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US HEALTHY CELLS, HOW DO YOU TARGET THE ONES, JUST THE ONES THAT ARE DEFECTIVE AND KEEP PUSHING THIS ON SWITCH INSTEAD OF GOING ON AND OFF?

>> YES.

THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT AND SUBTLE SCIENTIFIC TOPIC THAT YOU'RE RAISING.

FIRST, IT'S BEEN A CHALLENGE TO BIND A SMALL MOLECULE TO ANY RAS PROTEIN.

AND FOR DECADES, SINCE THE 1980s WHEN RAS PROTEINS WERE IDENTIFIED AS THE FIRST CANCER-CAUSING GENE IN PROTEINS, IT'S BEEN VERY DIFFICULT TO DRUG THESE RAS PROTEINS.

IN THE LAST 10 TO 15 YEARS, WE'VE SEEN SOME PROGRESS IN THAT REGARD.

WE'VE FOUND A WAY STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF MANY OTHERS WHO CAME BEFORE US TO DESIGN MOLECULES THAT CAN ESSENTIALLY GLUE ON TO SORT OF LIKE VELCRO, BIND ON TO THE SURFACE OF A RAS PROTEIN AND ATTACH IT TO ANOTHER PROTEIN THAT SMOTHERS IT AND KEEPS IT FROM FUNCTIONING WITHIN THE CELL.

NOW YOU'VE ASKED ABOUT CAN WE DIRECT THAT SPECIFICALLY ONLY TO THE MUTANT FORM OR THE GENETICALLY ALTERED FORM THAT DRIVES CANCER.

AND IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THAT.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF MOLECULES LIKE THAT IN OUR PIPELINE THAT ARE VERY SPECIFIC FOR THE MUTANT.

THE REASON THAT DARAXONRASIB, THE INVESTIGATIONAL DRUG THAT MIGHT HAVE LED TO THIS DISCUSSION TODAY, THE REASON THAT THAT MOLECULE IS SO DIFFERENT FROM EVERYTHING ELSE IS IT NOT ONLY USES THIS GLUE MECHANISM, BUT IT BINDS TO THE ACTIVE OR ON FORM EFFECTIVELY.

IT DOESN'T BIND TO THE OFF FORM.

IT'S SPECIFICALLY GOING AFTER THE ONCOGENIC FORM FOUND IN THE TUMORS.

IT DOES ATTACK OR BIND OR TARGET ESSENTIALLY ALL FORMS OF RAS, INCLUDING THE NORMAL RAS PROTEINS.

WE NOW KNOW FROM THE RESULT OF THE CLINICAL-BASED TRIAL THAT WERE JUST LED OUT AT ASCO, THIS WAS A GLOBALIZED RANDOM TRIAL OF 500 PATIENTS WHO RECEIVED EITHER DARAXONRASIB OR STANDARD CARE CHEMOTHERAPY, THAT WE SAW SIGNIFICANT UNPRECEDENTED IMPROVEMENTS ACROSS MANY DIFFERENT MEASURES THAT ARE TYPICALLY USED IN STUDIES OF CANCER DRUGS.

THAT INCLUDED A 60% REDUCTION IN THE RISK OF DEATH, WHICH IS OF COURSE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT WE GO AFTER, BUT SIMILAR REDUCTIONS ACROSS A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT MEASURES.

IN FACT, THOSE SAME PATIENTS ACTUALLY REPORTED THAT THEY SAW A STABILIZATION OF THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE AND PRESERVATION OF THAT QUALITY OF LIFE GREATER THAN DID THOSE WHO RECEIVED CHEMOTHERAPY.

SO LONGER LIFE, PRESERVE QUALITY OF LIFE.

IT INDICATES THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THAT.

>> IN A CLINICAL TRIAL WITH ABOUT 500 PATIENTS, YOUR MEDICINE NEARLY DOUBLED THE LIFE SPAN COMPARED TO SOMEONE WHO WAS JUST TAKING CHEMOTHERAPY THAT AVERAGE ABOUT 6.

7 MONTHS AND WITH YOUR MEDICINE IT WENT UP TO ABOUT 13.

2 MONTHS.

IT ALSO REDUCED THE DEATH BY 60% IN PATIENTS TAKING JUST YOUR MEDICINE VERSUS CHEMOTHERAPY.

WHAT IS THAT QUALITY OF LIFE LIKE?

WHAT IS THIS DOING THAT'S ALLOWING THEM, I DON'T KNOW, SOMETHING BETTER THAN WHAT THE STANDARD OF CARE IS TODAY?

>> WELL, TWO LIMITATIONS OF STANDARD OF CARE CHEMOTHERAPY YOU TOUCHED ON.

ONE IS THAT IT'S NOT AS EFFECTIVE AS IT NEEDS TO BE.

>> YEAH.

>> IT OFTEN PROVIDES VERY SHORT INCREMENTS IN SURVIVAL.

AND THE EXPERIENCE OF TAKING CHEMOTHERAPY, GOING TO AN INFUSION CENTER REGULARLY, THE SEVERE SIDE EFFECTS, OFTEN HOSPITALIZATION, AND SOME PATIENTS EVEN DIE WHILE THEY'RE RECEIVING CHEMOTHERAPY.

WE NEED TO ADDRESS BOTH OF THOSE.

AND WE BELIEVE DARAXONRASIB DOES THAT BASED ON THE RESULTS WE JUST REPORTED.

AND WE KNOW THAT PATIENTS RING DARAXONRASIB IN GENERAL HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TAKE THAT DRUG CONTINUOUSLY.

SOMETIMES THEY REQUIRE SHORT BREAKS, SHORT VACATIONS, MANY HOLIDAYS FROM THE DRUG.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART, HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TAKE IT AND CONTINUED BENEFITTING FROM ITS SUPPRESSION OF THE RAS PROTEIN THAT'S CAUSING CANCER.

WE KNOW IN ADDITION TO THAT SURVEY THAT PATIENTS TAKE DURING THE COURSE OF THE 302 TRIAL WE ALSO KNOW ALASKAN NECK DOTE TALLY FROM MANY PATIENTS, FROM PHYSICIANS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED TREATING A PATIENT WITH DARAXONRASIB THAT IT IS NOT UNCOMMON FOR PATIENTS WITHIN A FAIRLY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME TO FEEL BETTER AND FOR THEIR LIFE TO BE IMPROVED TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE LIFE, BE WITH THEIR FAMILY, TAKE CARE OF SOME THINGS THAT THEY WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO TAKE CARE OF WHILE THEY'RE ACTUALLY HAVING A LONGER LIFE.

BUT I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT HERE, HARI.

FOR THE MOST PART, DARAXONRASIB DOESN'T CURE MOST PEOPLE'S CANCERS.

SO WE HAVE MORE WORK TO DO, AND WE CONTINUE TO DESIGN, TO IMPROVE UPON DARAXONRASIB IN A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND TO BRING NEW MOLECULES TO THE CLINIC WITH THE HOPE THAT WE WILL CONVERT PANCREATIC CANCER AND OTHER CANCERS CAUSED BY RAS TO MORE CHRONICALLY MANAGED DISEASES AND EVENTUALLY INTO TRUE CURES.

>> SO DOCTOR, IF THESE RAS MUTATIONS SHOWS UP IN COLORECTAL CANCERS, IN SMALL CELL LUNG CANCERS AND THEY ACCOUNT FOR ALMOST A THIRD OR MORE OF THE DEATHS, CAN THIS MEDICINE BE USED IN THOSE OTHER CANCERS AS WELL?

>> YEAH.

THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

MORE THAN 90% OF PANCREATIC CANCERS CAUSED BY A RAS PROTEIN.

50% OF COLORECTAL CANCER IS CAUSED BY A RAS PROTEIN AND 30% OF SMALL CELL LUNG CANCER.

AND THAT'S JUST THE SHORT LIST OF THE MOST COMMON AND DEADLY CANCERS THAT CAN BE CAUSED BY RAS.

SO YOU'RE RIGHT.

AND WE ARE VERY INTERESTED IN AND VERY ACTIVE IN STUDYING DARAXONRASIB IN PATIENTS WITH THESE OTHER TUMOR TYPES.

IN FACT, WE PUBLISHED --WE HAVE REPORTED DATA ON DARAXONRASIB IN LUNG CANCER IN PATIENTS WITH A RAS CANCER DRIVER ENCOURAGING EARLY DATA, AND WE'RE CURRENTLY RUNNING A GLOBAL PHASE 3 TRIAL IN SMALL CELL LUNG CANCER IN THOSE PATIENTS WHO CARRY A RAS -- CARRY A RAS VARIANTS THAT'S CAUSING THEIR TUMOR.

WE'RE ALSO STUDYING COLORECTAL CANCER.

AND WE HAVE AS I ALLUDED TO EARLIER A DEEP PIPELINE OF MOLECULES BASED ON THIS SAME TECHNOLOGY, BASED ON THIS SAME STRATEGY WHERE WE'VE BENEFITTED FROM A VIRTUOUS CYCLE OF OBSERVATION IN THE CLINIC, SCIENTIFIC INNOVATION IN THE LABORATORY, MORE OBSERVATION IN THE CLINIC, IMPROVED INNOVATION IN THE LABORATORY.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE DEEPLY COMMITTED TO FOR THE LONG- TERM TO CONTINUE TRYING TO ADDRESS THESE TIMES ON BEHALF OF PATIENTS.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DRUG DEVELOPMENT IN GENERAL TAKING ANYWHERE FROM, I DON'T KNOW, LET'S SAY AVERAGE A DOZEN YEARS.

AND MOST PEOPLE, THAT'S PART OF THE HOPELESSNESS THAT THEY FEEL, THAT EVEN IF YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING IN THE LAB TODAY, IT'S GOING TO TAKE FOREVER BY THE TIME IT CAN ACTUALLY IMPACT MY LIFE.

SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THIS IS A VERY TRUNCATED TIMELINE.

HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

>> YEAH.

WE FIRST BROUGHT DARAXONRASIB INTO A CLINICAL STUDY IN 2022.

AND HERE WE ARE IN 2026.

AND WE'VE COMPLETED WHAT SHOULD BE -- APPEARS TO BE THE DEFINITIVE STUDY THAT DEMONSTRATES THIS BENEFIT IN PANCREATIC CANCER.

WE'RE ACTIVELY WORKING TO BRING THE INFORMATION FROM THAT TRIAL TO THE FDA SO THAT THEY CAN REVIEW IT AND MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER IT SHOULD BE MADE MORE WIDELY AVAILABLE THROUGH AN APPROVAL.

THAT'S A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

ONCE THE EARLY RESULTS WERE SEEN IN 2023, PATIENTS WERE CLAMORING TO GET ACCESS TO DARAXONRASIB BECAUSE THEY SMELLED WHAT WE SMELLED, WHICH IS A REAL OPPORTUNITY HERE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

DARAXONRASIB WE HOPE WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE BROADLY THAT WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE REVIEW PROCESS THAT WE NEED TO GO THROUGH WITH THE FDA.

IN THE MEANTIME WE HAVE OPENED AN EXPANDED ACCESS PROGRAM THAT ALLOWS PHYSICIANS WHO ARE CARING FOR PATIENTS WITH PANCREATIC CANCER TO APPLY FOR A DRUG ON BEHALF OF THEIR PATIENTS EVEN BEFORE IT IS APPROVED BY THE FDA AND THE FDA HAS ENDORSED THIS EXPANDED ACCESS PROGRAM.

AND WE'RE NOW SHIPPING DRUG TO DOCTORS ON BEHALF OF THEIR PATIENTS.

SECONDLY, RECEIVING DARAXONRASIB MAY BUY PEOPLE TIME TO ALLOW FOR ADDITIONAL INNOVATION.

AND THAT'S ALREADY BEEN OCCURRING THAT PATIENTS NOW SEE REAL OPPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE THEIR LIVES.

WE HOPE TO HAVE LIVES THAT ARE SATISFYING TO THEM AND TO THEIR FAMILIES.

BUT ALSO HOPE THAT THE NEXT GENERATION OF MOLECULES WILL COME ALONG.

AND WE'RE PUSHING THOSE AS FAST AS WE CAN.

>> WE HAVE A THIS EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S A CLASS AND A CATEGORY OF MEDICINES THAT WILL ACTUALLY REALLY HELPFUL TO A VERY LARGE SWATH OF PEOPLE.

AND THE COST IS A SIGNIFICANT HURDLE.

SO HERE YOU ARE.

YOU'VE SPENT THE TIME AND THE RESOURCES, THE MONEY IN DEVELOPING THIS DRUG, AND YOU WANT TO INCREASE ACCESS.

YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ANYBODY WITH PANCREATIC CANCER OR ANY OF THE OTHER CANCERS IT WORKS ON GETS ACCESS TO IT.

HOW DO YOU BAKE THAT INTO THE PROCESS?

>> WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE TO DEVELOP DRUGS.

WE'VE SPENT EVEN AS A SMALL BIOTECH COMPANY, WE SPENT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ALREADY EVEN BEFORE WE HAD THE KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE WITH THE RASOLUTE 302 TRIAL.

AND WE'RE RUNNING ABOUT TO INITIATIVE NATE ANOTHER SEVEN OF THESE PHASE 3 TRIALS WHICH ARE EXTRAORDINARILY EXPENSIVE.

SO IT DOES COST A LOT OF MONEY TO DO THIS.

THAT'S JUST INHERENT IN PROVIDING GOOD COMPLIANCE, SAFE MANAGEMENT TO PATIENTS DURING THE COURSE OF THE CLINICAL TRIAL, AND IT REQUIRES LARGE TRIALS THAT TAKE SOMETIMES A COUPLE OF YEARS TO DO.

THAT INVESTMENT HAS TO BE RECOUPED SINCE THAT CAPITAL COMES FROM INVESTORS, AND THAT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH PRICING.

I THINK THE OTHER ASPECT OF IT IS THAT DRUGS THAT HAVE GREAT EFFECTS PROBABLY DESERVE TO BE PRICED AT A HIGHER PRICE POINT THAN DRUGS THAT DON'T.

AND THAT'S BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM OF PAIRS, INCLUDING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT USE THE OUTCOMES OF THE CLINICAL TRIALS AS ONE OF THE WAYS IN WHICH THEY DECIDE WHAT IS AN APPROPRIATE PRICE AND AN APPROPRIATE TRADE-OFF.

BUT THE QUESTION YOU'RE ASKING IS A VERY BIG ONE THAT HAS TO DO WITH HOW DO WE PAY FOR HEALTH CARE IN GENERAL.

DRUGS ARE A RELATIVELY SMALL COMPONENT OF THE OVERALL COST OF MEDICAL CARE, HOSPITALIZATIONS, PHYSICIAN TIME, INFUSION CENTERS.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THAT HIGH COST OF MEDICINE, AND WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO DELIVER THE DRUG ON BEHALF OF PATIENTS AND MAKE IT POSSIBLE EVEN FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T AFFORD THROUGH VARIOUS MECHANISMS THAT ARE AVAILABLE.

>> YOU KNOW, I SAW A VIDEO FROM ASCO THAT WAS KIND OF INSPIRING.

YOUR TEAM WAS PRESENTING THE PHASE 3 RESULTS TO THIS HUGE AUDITORIUM FULL OF PEOPLE.

AND YOU JUST SAW A STANDING OVATION.

YOU SAW ALL THESE PEOPLE --SOME OF THEM WERE KIND OF IN TEARS.

BUT TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THAT KIND OF MOMENT HAPPENS.

>> WELL, I WAS IN THAT ROOM.

I WAS SITTING AT THE FRONT OF THE ROOM AND FELT THAT WHEN SOME PEOPLE BEHIND ME STARTED TO CLAP, AND WE HEARD THEM STAND UP.

AND THEN WITHIN A FEW SECONDS, THE ENTIRE ROOM WAS STANDING.

IT WAS VERY MOVING FOR ALL OF US AND VERY EMOTIONAL FOR EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM.

I THINK IT'S BECAUSE PANCREATIC CANCER HAS BEEN SO DIFFICULT.

THERE HAVE BEEN MANY FAILED ATTEMPTS TO DEVELOP NEW MEDICINES THAT WOULD REALLY CHANGE AND IMPROVE PEOPLE'S LIVES.

AND THIS ACHIEVEMENT IS VIEWED BY MANY AS UNPRECEDENTED, AS HIGHLY DIFFERENTIATED.

AND ALSO AS YOU ALLUDED TO EARLIER IN OUR CONVERSATION, IT OPENS UP THE POSSIBILITY OF TREATING OTHER PATIENTS WITH DIFFERENT CANCERS, DIFFERENT CANCERS CAUSED BY RAS WITH SIMILAR --WITH THIS DRUG OR OTHER DRUGS LIKE IT AND REALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

AND WE HEARD FROM MANY PEOPLE DURING THE CONFERENCE ONE-ON-ONE, IN LARGE GROUPS, AND OF COURSE IN THAT AUDITORIUM HOW THEY VIEW THIS AS A WATERSHED MOMENT, AND WE'RE SO PROUD TO BE A PART OF THAT.

>> YEAH.

>> AND AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE A REALLY DEEP RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP INNOVATING ON BEHALF OF PATIENTS.

AND WE'RE UNIQUELY POSITIONED TO DO THAT AT REVMED, AND WE WILL CONTINUE.

>> AS A RESEARCHER, WHEN YOU LOOK OUT AT WHAT'S HAPPENED TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT GRANTS THAT GO TO UNIVERSITIES, HOW DOES THAT AFFECT WHAT YOU DO AND WHAT OTHER PRIVATE COMPANIES DO?

IS SOME OF THE TECHNOLOGY OR THE RESEARCH THAT YOU ARE BUILDING ON SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN ONE OF THOSE EARLY DISCOVERY LABORATORIES THAT WAS GOVERNMENT FUNDED?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

I CAME FROM AN ACADEMIC CAREER IN MEDICINE BEFORE I JOINED THE BIOTECH FIELD WHERE I DID MY WORK BASED ON GRANTS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND I THINK THE IMPACT OF ANY CHANGES IN THAT FUNDING IS SOMETHING THAT WILL BE FELT IN THE FUTURE.

IT DOESN'T ONLY AFFECT THE LIVES OF THOSE WHO ARE ACTUALLY DOING THE RESEARCH AND HAVE A GRANT TRUNCATED, BUT IT REALLY WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT LONG- TERM IMPACT.

AND I HOPE THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO INVEST, TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE WORK THAT WE DO TODAY REALLY DOES BUILD ON THE WORK OF YESTERDAY AND THE DAY BEFORE THAT AND THE DAY BEFORE THAT.

AND I FEAR NOT A POLITICAL COMMENT, BUT I FEAR AS WE HAVE COMPETITION FOR RESOURCES THAT THE ACADEMIC WORK MIGHT HAVE IMPACT FOR GENERATIONS TO COME IF WE DON'T MAKE SURE TO SUPPORT IT.

SO WE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGE SUPPORTING IT.

WE'LL DO WHAT WE CAN.

AT REV MED, WE INVEST HEAVILY IN THE SCIENCE.

WE FIND THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO MAKE THE PRODUCTS FOR PATIENTS.

>> CEO OF REVOLUTION DR.

MARK GOLDSMITH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU, HARI.

> >> AND FINALLY, WE REMEMBER IRANIAN ARTIST AND ACTIVIST MARJAN WHO HAS DIED AT THE AGE OF 56, A POWERFUL VOICE WHO BROUGHT THE STORY OF HER HOMELAND'S STRUGGLES TO A GLOBAL AUDIENCE.

SHE WAS BEST KNOWN FOR HER ACCLAIMED GRAPHIC NOVEL AND FILM SHE WAS A WOMEN'S RIGHT CAMPAIGNER.

SHE LEFT IRAN FOR GOOD IN 1994, BUT REMAINED DEEPLY CONNECTED TO ITS PEOPLE AND CULTURE THROUGHOUT HER LIFE.

IN 2020, SHE WOKE TO CHRISTIANE ABOUT HER OWN EXPERIENCE AS A REFUGEE AND WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE WITH LOSS AND COMPASSION.

>> NOBODY LEAVES THEIR OWN COUNTRY THEY THINK IT'S FUN.

EVERYBODY LOVES THE PLACE THEY ARE BORN, THEY LOVE THE FOOD THEY EAT, THEY LOVE THE GEOGRAPHY.

IF WE GO IT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY CHOICE.

AND WOMEN, THEY HAVE THIS EMPATHY AND COMPASSION TO UNDERSTAND THAT AND SEE IN FRONT OF THEM NOT AN ABSTRACT NOTION OF THE MIGRANT, BUT A HUMAN BEING WHO IS IN NEED OF FREEDOM AND A NEED JUST TO SURVIVE, THEN PROBABLY WE HAVE MADE A STEP FORWARD.

BUT I THINK 2020 IS KIND OF REALLY LATE TO START THINKING ABOUT THIS.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A LONG TIME AGO.

>> MAY SHE REST IN PEACE.

A LIFE LOST WAY TOO SOON.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

> >> "AMANPOUR & CO. "

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