Amanpour and Company

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

WITH PEACE TALKS BETWEEN ISRAEL AND LEBANON UNDER WAY, CAN A FRAGILE CEASE-FIRE HOLD?

I SPEAK WITH BUREAU CHIEF BOLOS ON THE GROUND IN BEIRUT.

THEN.

I SPEAK WITH MEXICO'S FORMER MINISTER ABOUT WHAT THE UPCOMING ELECTION COULD MEAN FOR THE REGION AND THE WORLD.

ALSO AHEAD.

>> I FEEL IT.

I FEEL IT.

>> DOCTORS WORKING AROUND THE CLOCK TO CONTAIN AN OUT OF CONTROL EBOLA OUTBREAK.

CLARISSA WARD REPORTS FROM CONGO.

AND A CAVE GROWS IN PARIS.

FAMED FRENCH STREET ARTIST ALSO.

>> STATES COULD CHOOSE TO EXIT THE PROGRAM ENTIRELY, WHICH WOULD LEAVE MILLIONS OF FAMILIES WITHOUT A LIFELINE FOR FOOD.

>> AND WE SPEAK WITH PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERT SARA NAOMI ABOUT MASSIVE CUTS TO FEDERALLY FUNDED FOOD BENEFITS IN THE U.S.

>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE STRAUSS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YEUN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITS, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR LOCAL PBS STATIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

IN WASHINGTON, TALKS BETWEEN ISRAEL AND LEBANON ARE BACK ON TRACK AS REPRESENTATIVES OF BOTH COUNTRIES ARE MEETING AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

NOW BEFORE THE MEETINGS BEGAN, FOUR PEOPLE WERE KILLED ON MONDAY IN AN ISRAELI STRIKE NEAR A HOSPITAL IN SOUTHERN LEBANON.

THE LEBANESE EMBASSY SAYS HEZBOLLAH HAS AGREED TO A U.S.

CEASE-FIRE.

PRESIDENT TRUMP DECLARED THAT ISRAELI FORCES WOULD NOT MOVE ON BEIRUT.

NETANYAHU SAYS THE MILITARY WILL KEEP STRIKING SOUTHERN LEBANON, BUT SAID ISRAEL WOULD NOT IMMEDIATELY ATTACK.

IT'S A VOLATILE SITUATION, BOTH DIPLOMATICALLY AND MILITARILY.

WHERE IS IT HEADED?

OUR MIDDLE EAST BUREAU CHIEF JOINS US NOW FROM BEIRUT.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK ON THE PROGRAM.

IT'S BEEN A WHILE.

I JUST LAID OUT THE SITUATION AS ANNOUNCED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYING THAT A CEASE-FIRE HAS BEEN AGREED TO, BOTH ISRAEL AND HEZBOLLAH SAYING THEY'VE STOPPED OR AGREED TO STOP ATTACKING EACH OTHER.

BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE.

PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SAYING THAT HE WOULD HOLD OFF ON GOING INTO BEIRUT, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT EXCHANGES OF FIRE BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES ARE ONGOING.

SO IS THIS JUST A CEASE-FIRE IN NAME ONLY AT THIS POINT?

>> WELL, YOU COULD ARGUE WE HAVEN'T REALLY HAD A CEASE-FIRE ANYWAY BECAUSE THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT DESPITE THE NAME CEASE-FIRE, NO ONE HAS STOPED SHOOTING.

SINCE APRIL, WE STILL HAVE HEZBOLLAH AND ISRAEL FIGHTING EACH OTHER IN THE SOUTH OF LEBANON.

TIME.

RIGHT?

I MEAN, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WAS THAT BEIRUT WAS NOT BEING TARGETED DIRECTLY.

THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE CHANGED YES, SIR THEY YESTERDAY WITH A NEW EQUATION.

EVEN NOW ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED IS WE'VE RETURNED TO THE APRIL 7th STATUS QUO, TO SAY THERE'S FIGHTING IN THE SOUTH OF LEBANON, BUT THERE'S NO FIGHTING ELSEWHERE.

WE'RE NOT SEEING ATTACKS ON BEIRUT.

HEZBOLLAH HAS BEEN ADHERING TO NOT FIRING ON NORTHERN ISRAEL.

THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THAT REGARD.

>> THINGS HAD BEEN SIMMERING AS RECENTLY AS SUNDAY AS SECRETARY OF STATE RUBIO WAS ON THE PHONE WITH ISRAELI OFFICIALS AND THE PRESIDENT OF LEBANON PROPOSING AN EVEN MORE SIGNIFICANT DEGRADATION NOW AND DEESCALATION IN TERMS OF THE FIGHTING.

AND THEY SAID THAT ALL THE SIDES AGREED IT STARTS WITH HEZBOLLAH STOPPING ITS ATTACKS AND ISRAEL WOULD WITHHOLD GOING THINGS STARTED ESCALATING AND HEATING UP AGAIN COME MONDAY.

WHAT TRANSPIRED IN JUST THOSE FEW HOURS?

>> THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE SAW ISRAEL ACTUALLY ADVANCING.

THIS FORT ACTUALLY, IT'S ABOVE THE LATANI.

IT'S A VITAL WATERWAY IN SOUTH LEBANON THAT HAS BEEN USED TO DEMARCATE A SUPPOSED SECURITY ZONE.

LATANI WAS USED IN A PREVIOUS INVASION OF ISRAEL BACK IN THE '80s TO ALSO DEMARCATE THE SECURITY ZONE.

NOW THE CASTLE LIES ATOP A HILL FROM WHICH YOU CAN SEE THE STRIP.

THE ISRAELIS HAVE MANAGED TO ADVANCE INTO THAT CASTLE OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS, AND THAT WAS SEEN ACTUALLY AS A BIT OF A PR COUPE FOR THE ISRAELI MILITARY.

THE IDEA WAS THIS WAS PRESENTING A MOMENT OF ISRAEL PRESSING ITS ADVANTAGE.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CLAMORING THAT THEY SHOULD GO IN AND THE TENOR OF THE CONVERSATION IS THAT HE HAS NOT GONE FAR ENOUGH, RIGHT?

THEY SHOULD BE GOING, YOU KNOW, DEEPER INTO LEBANON AND CRUSHING HEZBOLLAH ONCE AND FOR ALL.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS AT PLAY.

NAMELY, IT'S VERY HARD TO DO SO IN A MILITARY INVASION.

>> YEAH.

AND IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE EVEN SOME ISRAELI ANALYSTS WERE QUESTIONING THE STRATEGIC VALUE AS OPPOSED TO THE PUSHBACK THAT TYPE OF A SEIZURE AND GIVEN HOW SENSITIVE IT REALLY IS, WHAT THAT WOULD GIVE ISRAEL.

AND IT IS VALID TO SAY THAT ISRAELIS IN THE NORTH HAVE BEEN VERY CONCERNED ABOUT GOING BACK TO THEIR HOMES AND BEING ON THE RECEIVING END OF FIRE FROM HEZBOLLAH.

BUT THE POINT WAS WHAT WAS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF SEIZING THIS SPECIFIC CASTLE?

I WANT TO BRING IRAN INTO THE CONVERSATION HERE BECAUSE IRAN OVER THE WEEKEND SUSPENDED TALKS WITH THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENT TRUMP THEN TELLING CNBC HE DOESN'T CARE, THAT PERHAPS HOLDING OFF ALL TALKS WOULD BE GOOD NOW.

HE COULD CARE LESS.

THEN HE GOT ON THE PHONE WITH PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU, SAID THAT HE HAD SPOKEN WITH REPRESENTATIVES FROM HEZBOLLAH, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN SIGNALED THAT CEASE-FIRE TALKS WERE BACK ON.

AND IRAN IS TACITLY ADMITTING AS MUCH TOO.

IS LEBANON THE LEVERAGE IRAN IS USING OVER THE UNITED STATES HERE TO GET TO THAT MOU AGREEMENT?

>> IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO SAY LEBANON IS BEING USED AS LEVERAGE.

LEBANON HAS ITS OWN ISSUES, AND ITS GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN INSISTING ON NOT LINKING ITS FATE TO IRAN AT ALL.

HEZBOLLAH IS A DIFFERENT FACTOR.

HEZBOLLAH IS AN IRAN-BACKED GROUP AND VERY MUCH RELYING ON IRAN TO HOLD UP AND CHAMPION ITS CASE.

SO THAT IS, INDEED, HAPPENING.

IN TERMS OF THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT ITSELF IS NOT INTO IRAN COULD BE USING LEBANON AS AN MOU OR TO GET THE MOU OVER THE LINE.

BUT IT ALSO HAS HORMUZ, WHICH IS A FAR MORE STRATEGIC ASSET TO HAVE THAN LEBANON AT THIS POINT.

LEBANON HAS BEEN INSISTING ON FORGING ITS OWN PATH IN NEGOTIATIONS.

>> AND WE HEARD FROM SECRETARY OF STATE RUBIO THAT THESE NEGOTIATIONS IN EARNEST, AT LEAST SOME OF THE MORE SPECIFIC TECHNICAL DETAILS COULD GO ON FOR MONTHS AND END IF THE STRAIT CONTINUES TO BE FILLED WITH MINES THAT HAVE BEEN PLANTED THERE BY THE IRANIANS.

THAT CONTINUES TO BE A HUGE ISSUE FOR THE UNITED STATES AND THE WORLD'S ECONOMY IS WHAT TO DO WITH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AND IRAN'S CONTROL OVER IT AT THIS POINT.

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND PRESIDENT TRUMP, WE'VE REPORTED PREVIOUS TIMES OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW YEARS THAT AT TIMES THEY WOULD GET INTO THESE HEATED CONVERSATIONS, PRESIDENT TRUMP EXPRESSING HIS MINISTER, BUT REGIONALLY THIS IS A POLITICAL ISSUE AS WELL.

THERE ARE ELECTIONS COMING UP IN ISRAEL, AS YOU NOTED.

THERE IS FRUSTRATION AMONG ISRAELIS THAT HE HAS NOT DEGRADED HEZBOLLAH ENOUGH, AND YET YOU SEE MANY SAYING THERE'S NO STRATEGY IN THIS PARTICULAR POLICY AS IT RELATES TO HEZBOLLAH NOW.

HOW DO YOU THINK THAT IS IMPACTING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE TWO MEN, TRUMP AND NETANYAHU?

>> IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ME TO SPEAK TO THAT.

I SAY THIS MOSTLY BECAUSE FROM THE REGIONAL POINT OF VIEW, AND I SHOULD SAY FROM THE ARAB POINT OF VIEW, THESE VARIOUS ARAB GOVERNMENTS, WE'VE HEARD TIME AND AGAIN ABOUT REPORTS OF TRUMP OR U.S.

PRESIDENTS HAVING FRICTION WITH NETANYAHU.

AND TIME AND AGAIN, IT HASN'T MATTERED.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS ALTHOUGH THERE MIGHT BE FRICTION, THE THRUST OF THE POLICY REMAINS VERY MUCH IN A PRO-ISRAELI VEIN.

THEREFORE, THE FACT IS WE ARE SEEING EVEN NOW A SENSE OF I SUPPOSE BOLDNESS.

THIS ATTACK YESTERDAY, THERE WAS THE ATTACK ON THE HOSPITAL IN WHICH FOUR PEOPLE WERE KILLED.

DOZENS OF MEDICAL HEALTH WORKERS WERE WOUNDED THERE.

YOU'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT REPEATED ATTACKS ON PARAMEDICS, ETC.

AND JUST TODAY, IN FACT, YOU HAD CIVILIANS ALSO BEING KILLED.

THESE NOTIONS OF RED LINES AND CHANGES TO THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRUMP AND NETANYAHU OR ANY U.S.

PRESIDENT HAVE BEEN, I SUPPOSE, REALLY IGNORED HERE IN THE REGION.

MOSTLY BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD IT TIME AND AGAIN BEFORE AND THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY REAL IMPACT.

NOW THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS HOW WILL THIS AFFECT IRAN NEGOTIATIONS?

THERE HAS BEEN TALK OF THIS HELPING PUSH IT OVER THE LINE.

IT'S ALSO WORTH NOTING THAT THESE CEASE-FIRE, YOU KNOW, TALKS WITH IRAN HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR QUITE A FEW WEEKS NOW.

ALMOST EVERY DAY WE'RE HEARING ABOUT A BREAKTHROUGH HAPPENING AND NOTHING HAPPENS.

THIS TOOK THE TEAM MONTHS TO DO.

AND IT WOULD BE HARD TO ENVISION THE SAME KIND OF RIGOR BEING FOLLOWED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, QUITE FRANKLY.

>> AND IT'S PRETTY CLEAR TRUMP WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR AND FOCUS ON OTHER ISSUES AT THIS POINT.

BUT IRAN HAS A SAY, AS WE KNOW.

I DO WANT TO END BY GETTING YOUR REPORTING AND PERSPECTIVE GIVEN THAT YOU ARE THERE IN BEIRUT.

JUST THE HUMANITARIAN TOLL ONCE AGAIN THAT THIS HAS TAKEN ON THE COMMUNITY.

WE KNOW THAT A MILLION PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DISPLACED.

3,400 HAVE BEEN REPORTED TO BE KILLED.

THERE'S, YOU KNOW, ONGOING BACK AND FORTH.

IS THERE A CEASE-FIRE?

IS THERE NOT?

JUST GIVE US THE MOOD OF THE COUNTRY NOW AND THE CITY OF BEIRUT IN PARTICULAR.

>> SO BEIRUT ITSELF, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE YESTERDAY WAS VERY, VERY TENSE BECAUSE THERE WAS A FEELING WE'LL START SEEING THESE BIG BOMBING CAMPAIGNS IN THE SUBURB WHERE HEZBOLLAH HOLDS SWAY.

OF COURSE YOU'VE HAD ISRAELI DRONES BUZZING OVERHEAD ALL DAY.

STOPPED ONLY AN HOUR AND A HALF AGO.

IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT IT'S STILL AN OUT AND OUT WAR.

IT'S WORTH JUST REMEMBERING THAT TODAY WE'VE HEARD ONE OF THE LARGEST CITIES IN THE SOUTH AND ONE OF THE ECONOMIC ENGINES OF THE SOUTH IS NOW TOTALLY FREE OF INHABITANTS.

IT HAS BEEN COMPLETELY EMPTIED.

THAT'S A TERRIFYING NOTION, JUST THIS IDEA OF THE SOUTH BEING COMPLETELY EMPTY IN VARIOUS PARTS OF IT.

IT REALLY JUST BOGGLES THE MIND.

AND THEN YOU ADD TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS A REAL SENSE OF DESPAIR BECAUSE HEZBOLLAH ALREADY SAID IT WILL NOT ADHERE TO ANY PROCEEDINGS FROM THESE NEGOTIATIONS.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE GOVERNMENT HAS PROVEN UNABLE TO DISARM THE GROUP.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY HAS NOT DISARMED THE GROUP.

YOU NEED A POLITICAL BREAKTHROUGH.

YOU NEED A POLITICAL SOLUTION.

THERE IS NO STRATEGY FOR ISRAEL RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE FACT IS HEZBOLLAH WILL NOT STOP FIGHTING.

THAT'S WHAT WE'VE HEARD TIME AND AGAIN UNTIL THERE IS A INCLUDES THE GROUP, NOT ONE THAT ONLY INCLUDES THE GOVERNMENT.

>> FIGHTING HAS TURNED TO USING DRONES, THE SAME TYPE OF DRONES WE'VE SEEN ON THE BATTLEFIELD IN UKRAINE FOR YEARS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPORTING.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> SURE.

THANK YOU.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO WHERE THE NUMBER OF CONFIRMED EBOLA CASES NOW TOPS 300 WITH ALMOST 50 DEADS.

THE TRUE NUMBER IS LIKELY HIGHER.

WE GAINED ACCESS TO THE RED ZONE IN THE EPICENTER OF THE DEADLY OUTBREAK.

>> Reporter: IT IS A SURREAL BUT NOW ALL-TOO-FAMILIAR RITUAL.

HEALTH CARE WORKERS PAIN STAKINGLY DISINFECT THE COFFIN OF THE LATEST SUSPECTED VICTIM OF THE EBOLA VIRUS AT THE GENERAL HOSPITAL.

FAMILY MEMBERS LOOK ON IN ANGUISH, UNABLE TO GET CLOSE TO TORN APART BY GRIEF AND CONSUMED BY FEAR.

OH, MY FATHER.

WHY, GOD?

THIS WOMAN CRIES.

OH, GOD, THIS IS MY ONLY FATHER.

AS THE DEAD ARE CARRIED OUT, NEW POTENTIAL CASES ARE ARRIVING.

AT THE ENTRANCE TO THE HOSPITAL, EVERYONE'S TEMPERATURE MUST BE TAKEN.

>> SO THIS IS THE ROOM WHERE THEY TAKE PEOPLE WHO ARE FOUND TO HAVE A FEVER.

THERE IS A WOMAN IN THERE NOW, OBVIOUSLY THEY DON'T KNOW IF SHE HAS EBOLA OR NOT.

THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP HER HERE UNTIL THEY DO MORE TESTS AND GET A BETTER SENSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> Reporter: AT A MAKESHIFT COORDINATION CENTER, DR.

RICHARD AND HIS TEAM ARE WORKING ROUND THE CLOCK TO KEEP UP WITH AN OUTBREAK THEY SAY IS OUT OF CONTROL.

THEY AGREED TO SHOW ME AND WHAT THEY'RE UP AGAINST.

>> WE ARE NOW GETTING READY TO GO INTO THE SO-CALLED RED ZONE OF THIS HOSPITAL.

THAT IS THE AREA WHERE ALL SUSPECTED EBOLA PATIENTS ARE PUT.

AND THERE IS A LOT OF PROTECTIVE GEAR, UNSURPRISINGLY, THAT ONE NEEDS TO WEAR TO GO INSIDE.

>> Reporter: THE STRAIN OF THE VIRUS FEW WERE EXPECTING.

THERE IS NO VACCINE AND NO CURE.

THE DOCTORS WRITE OUR NAMES ON OUR BACKS SO THEY CAN RECOGNIZE US.

AND THEN IT'S TIME TO GO IN.

AT THE MOMENT, PATIENTS ARE TREATED IN HASTILY CONSTRUCTED TENTS.

30-YEAR-OLD GLORIAS A LAB TECHNICIAN.

ONE OF DOZENS OF HEALTH CARE WORKERS BELIEVED TO BE INFECTED.

>> [SPEAKING GLOBAL LANGUAGE] >> EARLIER, WE MET HER SISTER WAITING OUTSIDE FOR NEWS.

>> [SPEAKING GLOBAL LANGUAGE] >> LANGUAGE] >> Reporter: DO NOT BE AFRAID, SHE SAYS.

BUT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO BE SCARED.

SOME OF THE PATIENTS HERE ARE IN VERY BAD SHAPE.

>> HOW DO YOU STAY STRONG WHEN YOU'RE SEEING THIS?

>> HUMANITY.

WHEN PEOPLE SUFFER LIKE THIS, I FEEL IT.

I FEEL IT.

>> Reporter: 10-YEAR-OLD MASHACH IS STILL VERY WEAK.

HIS MOUTH RAVAGED WITH BLISTERS FROM THE VIRUS.

HE ASKED THE DOCTORS FOR BANANA, AN ENCOURAGING SIGN.

SLOWLY, SLOWLY THE DOCTOR WARNS HIM.

HIS CONDITION IS IMPROVING, BUT HE HAS A LONG WAY TO GO.

>> HE WANTS TO LAY DOWN?

LET'S HELP HIM LAY DOWN THEN.

>> Reporter: WE LAY HIM DOWN IN THE CORRIDOR WHILE HIS ROOM IS DISINFECTED.

NOTHING ABOUT THIS SITUATION IS OKAY.

BUT THESE DOCTORS ARE DOING EVERYTHING THEY POSSIBLY CAN.

AS WE WALK TO ANOTHER WARD, A FAMILIAR SOUND IN THE DISTANCE.

>> WE CAN HEAR THE CRIES OF A FAMILY WHO ARE CLAIMING THE BODY OF THEIR LOVED ONE.

THIS IS A SCENE THAT'S PLAYING OUT HERE MULTIPLE TIMES EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> Reporter: THIS IS A TEMPORARY WARD FOR SUSPECTED PATIENTS LIE WAITING FOR TEST RESULTS THAT ARE TAKING UP TO A WEEK TO PROCESS.

>> SO THIS IS THE SITUATION THAT HEALTH CARE WORKERS REALLY WANT TO AVOID AND ARE RACING TO PUT A STOP TO.

YOU HAVE FIVE PATIENTS IN THE SAME ROOM, ALL OF THEM SUSPECTED OF HAVING EBOLA.

BUT DOCTORS CAN'T BE SURE.

THEY CAN'T RULE OUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT ONE PERSON IN HERE MAY NOT HAVE EBOLA, AND THEN OF COURSE THERE'S A STRONG CHANCE THEY COULD CONTRACT IT.

>> Reporter: EVERY EXIT FROM THE RED ZONE IS AS CAREFUL AS THE ENTRY.

PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT MUST BE SPRAYED DOWN WITH CHLORINE, METHODICALLY REMOVED.

>> WE WERE IN THERE FOR MAYBE HALF AN HOUR, AND I COULD BARELY STAND UP BY THE END.

IT'S INCREDIBLY TIRING, REALLY HOT.

YOU'RE SWEATING SO MUCH.

YOU'RE THIRSTY.

HELP US UNDERSTAND THE KIND OF STAMINA THAT YOU NEED AS A DOCTOR TO BE GOING IN AND OUT OF THAT RED ZONE MULTIPLE TIMES EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> REALLY HARD.

WE HAVE TO STAY STRONG FOR THOSE PATIENTS.

OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, THE PATIENT WILL BE VERY, VERY BAD.

>> THE 10-YEAR-OLD BOY, THAT'S HARD TO SEE.

>> HE WAS BLEEDING, A LOT OF DIARRHEA AND SHOCK.

GIVING IV FLUIDS IS NOT REALLY EASY.

FOR ME, I SEE A DOCTOR.

WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION LIKE THIS, IT'S VERY HARD TO STOP.

>> Reporter: ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF THE CITY, THE FAMILY WE MET EARLIER IS BURYING THEIR FATHER, 72-YEAR-OLD FARMER PAPA.

THE BURIAL TEAM FORMS A CORDEN AROUND HIS GRAVE.

THE MOURNERS FORCED TO GRIEVE AT A DISTANCE.

THE FINAL CRUELTY OF THIS VICIOUS VIRUS.

>> NOW FAR-RIGHT OUTSIDER CANDIDATE RAN SURPRISINGLY STRONG IN COLOMBIA'S ELECTION.

A SELF-DESCRIBED CONSERVATIVE NATIONALIST RUNNING ON A BOMBASTIC TOUGH ON CRIME PLATFORM.

HE PROMISES TO CARRY ON THE PROGRESSIVE POLICIES OF GUSTAVO PEDRO.

IN ANOTHER POTENTIAL CHANGE, PRESIDENT PEDRO HAS A FRAUGHT RELATIONSHIP WITH WASHINGTON.

MEAN CASTENEDA JOINS ME TO TALK ABOUT IT ALL.

REALLY SEEMED TO COME OUT OF NOWHERE AND RUNNING ON A SECURITY AND EXTORTION CAMPAIGN.

AND HIS RISE IS REALLY IN PART WITH THE REGIONAL RIGHT WING RISE THAT WE'VE SEEN TAKE OVER AS I MENTIONED REGIONALLY.

BUT ONE COULD ARGUE AROUND THE WORLD AS WELL.

IS HE JUST AN OUTSIDER WHO PICKED UP ON AN IMPORTANT POLICY AND ISSUE FOR VOTERS?

OR IS HE PART OF THAT CHANGE?

>> GREAT TO BE BACK WITH YOU.

I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH.

THERE ARE SPECIFICALLY COLOMBIAN ELEMENTS WAY OUTPACING THE OTHER CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE VALENCIA WHO WAS THOUGHT TO AND IN FACT, ENDED UP GETTING ALMOST 35% LESS THAN HE DID ON THIS FIRST ROUND.

THERE WERE SPECIFICALLY COLOMBIAN ISSUES SUCH AS A VERY SERIOUS CRISIS IN THE HEALTH SYSTEM, SUCH AS THE VIOLENCE AND THE PROBLEMS WITH THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENT PEDRO'S BEHAVIOR ON OCCASION.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO BROADER THINGS, VERY CLEARLY ONE OF THE TRENDS WE SEE IN LATIN AMERICA OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS IS THAT SOCIETIES ARE INCREASINGLY NERVOUS AND UPSET ABOUT WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE MUCH GREATER LEVELS OF VIOLENCE, OF CRIME, OF LACK OF SECURITY, ETC.

WE SAW THIS IN ECUADOR.

WE SAW THIS IN CHILE, A LITTLE BIT IN ARGENTINA.

WE MAY SEE IT IN BRAZIL LATER THIS YEAR.

AND CLEARLY, THE SITUATION IN PEDRO'S TOTAL PEACE STRATEGY IS PERCEIVED TO NOT HAVE WORKED.

VIOLENCE IS UP IN MANY AREAS OF THE COUNTRY.

AND THE HARD-LINE APPROACH TO VIOLENCE THROWING A LOT OF PEOPLE IN JAIL WAS EVIDENTLY VERY AGREEABLE TO THE COLOMBIAN ELECTORATE.

HE SEEMS WELL POISED TO WIN IN THE RUN OFF IN THREE WEEKS TIME.

>> YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH COMPARING HIM TO THAT CRACK DOWN HERE.

HE PROMISED IF ELECTED, HE WILL END THE CONFLICT IN 90 DAYS.

VERY TRUMPIAN.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID SPECIFICALLY.

>> IN MY GOVERNMENT, THERE WILL BE NO PEACE PROCESSES.

EMPIRICAL EXPERIENCE HAS TAUGHT US THAT PEACE PROCESSES IN THAT IS NEEDED TO APPLY THE PAX ROMANA.

BANDITS WHO DO NOT SURRENDER WILL BE NEUTRALIZED AS THE LAW DICTATES.

>> IS THAT A POLICY IN YOUR VIEW?

>> IT'S BEEN TRIED BEFORE IN COLOMBIA DURING THE LONG CIVIL WAR WITH THE GUERILL AS.

PRESIDENT SANTOS' PEACE AGREEMENTS WERE FEASIBLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE WERE VERY SIGNIFICANT HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES.

THE SO-CALLED FALSE POSITIVES IN COLOMBIA WHERE THE MILITARY WOULD EXECUTE PEOPLE WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GUERILLAS TO PRESENT THEM AS A BODY COUNT OF DEAD GUERILLAS.

THE HISTORICAL PRECEDENTS ARE NOT PARTICULARLY ENCOURAGING.

IF HE WINS, I THINK HE'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THESE HISTORICAL REALITIES AND THE REALITIES ON THE GROUND THAT TRYING TO NEUTRALIZE, AS HE PUT IT, ALL OF THE GUERILLA GROUPS WILL BE MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN HE SEEMS TO THINK.

>> YEAH.

IT'S QUITE DIFFERENT AND IT'S BEEN NOTED THAT THE ISSUES AND EVEN THE ISSUES RELATED TO CRIME IN EL SALVADOR ARE DIFFERENT IN COLOMBIA.

EL SALVADOR, YOU'VE GOT STREET GANGS.

IN COLOMBIA, YOU ARE DEALING WITH GUERILLAS AND ARMED GROUPS AS WELL.

HE SAID HE WOULD BUILD UP TO 10 WHEN THE ECONOMY IS FRONT AND CENTER FOR VOTERS.

DOES THAT RESONATE HEARING MORE DETENTION CENTERS, MORE PRISONS ARE PROMISED?

>> WELL, I THINK COLOMBIANS IN A FIRST RESPONSE TO THESE VIEWS PROBABLY THINK THAT THEY'RE A GOOD IDEA.

WHY DON'T WE JUST THROW THEM ALL IN JAILS?

AND IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH JAILS, WHY DON'T WE JUST BUILD MORE?

THE PROBLEM IN EL SALVADOR IS FIRST OF ALL, YOU END UP JAILING A LOT OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.

YOUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAS NO WAY TO TRY THEM, GIVE THEM A FAIR TRIAL, DUE PROCESS, ETC.

AND EL SALVADOR IS A VERY SMALL COUNTRY OF SIX, SEVEN MILLION INHABITANTS, EVEN LESS.

WHERE AN ENORMOUS PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS IN JAIL.

THE EQUIVALENT PERCENTAGE IN COLOMBIA WOULD BE SOMEWHERE OVER A MILLION PEOPLE.

THAT'S PROBABLY NOT DOABLE, IN ADDITION TO WHICH COLOMBIA'S GEOGRAPHY, COLOMBIA'S ECONOMY IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM EL SALVADOR.

EL SALVADOR LIVES TO A GREAT EXTENT OFF REMITTANCES.

COLOMBIA HAS RECEIVED GREATER REMITTANCES IN RECENT YEARS.

ITS ECONOMY IS JUST IN SO-SO SHAPE.

>> IF WE DO SEE A VICTORY AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF PRESIDENT TRUMP WEIGHS IN TOO BECAUSE THERE IS THIS ARGUMENT FROM THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT IN THE REGION THAT THIS IS THE UNITED STATES INTERFERING WITH A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY.

SO I'M CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL SAY, IF ANYTHING, ABOUT THIS.

BUT GIVEN THE RIGHT WORD TREND THAT WE ARE SEEING IN A NUMBER OF THESE REGIONAL COUNTRIES, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT IMPACTS WHERE THE U.S.

STANDS WITH CUBA TODAY AND THE PRESSURE THE UNITED STATES CONTINUES TO APPLY TO THAT ISLAND NATION?

>> WELL, CLEARLY IF HE WINS IN COLOMBIA, THAT WOULD BE A FLIP IN THE SENSE THAT PRESIDENT PEDRO HAS BEEN A STRONG SUPPORTER OF THE CUBAN DICTATORSHIP, HAS BEEN A STRONG CRITIC OF THE TRUMP POLICY TOWARD THE CUBAN DICTATORSHIP AND UNTIL JANUARY 3rd , A STRONG SUPPORTER ALBEIT WITH ANNOYANCE ON HIS PART OF NICOLAS MADURO IN VENEZUELA.

THIS FLIP WOULD MEAN THAT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF EUROPE, BRAZIL, AND MEXICO, PRACTICALLY EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN LATIN AMERICA WOULD TEND TO BE ALIGNED WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS POLICIES ON CUBA, ON VENEZUELA, ON NICARAGUA, AND OTHER INTERNATIONAL ISSUES.

THEN HE'D PROBABLY BE A VERY STRONG SUPPORTER OF TRUMP'S HARD LINE ON CUBA AS PEDRO BEING A RELATIVE SUPPORTER MORE RHETORICALLY THAN, IN FACT, BY THE WAY.

>> LET ME MOVE TO YOUR HOME COUNTRY OF MEXICO BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN POLICY CLASHES BETWEEN CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OVER CUBA.

NOW OVER THE WEEKEND, IT WAS INTERESTING TO SEE HER ACCUSE U.S.

AGENCIES, PERHAPS EVEN THE CIA AND BUSINESS INTERESTS OF WORKING TO UNDERLINE HER OWN GOVERNMENT.

SHE PINNED IT ON THE AMERICAN FAR RIGHT COORDINATING WITH HER OWN INTERNAL DOMESTIC OPPONENTS.

HERE'S WHAT SHE SAID.

>> IS IT TRULY A LEGITIMATE INTEREST IN COMBATING ORGANIZED CRIME, OR ARE WE PERHAPS WITNESSING HOW SECTORS OF THE AMERICAN FAR RIGHT ARE USING OUR COUNTRY TO POSITION THEMSELVES AHEAD OF THEIR 2026 ELECTIONS?

OR DO THEY PERHAPS INTEND TO INFLUENCE THE 2027 ELECTION IN OUR COUNTRY?

THESE ARE NOT RHETORICAL QUESTIONS.

MEXICO IS NOT ANYONE'S PINATA.

>> WHAT'S INTERESTING HERE IS SHE'S NOT BLAMING TRUMP DIRECTLY.

SO THIS IS ACTUALLY A DELICATE LINE FOR HER TO WALK DOWN.

CAN SHE RALLY THE COUNTRY AGAINST THE U.S., AGAINST RIGHT WING FORCES IN THE U.S.

AND MEXICO WITHOUT CLASHING FURTHER WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?

>> I TEND TO DOUBT IT BECAUSE PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS CLOSEST AIDS, PARTICULARLY STEVEN MILLER, ARE VERY INTENT ON WHAT IS HAPPENING AND ON WHAT IS SAID IN MEXICO AND VERY SENSITIVE TO THE CRITICISMS OR RHETORIC THAT SEEMS TO BE ANTI- AMERICAN, ANTI-TRUMP, ETC.

I THINK THAT SHE HAS DECIDED THAT GIVEN THE TRUMP DEMANDS THAT SHE HAND OVER A SERIES OF NARCO POLITICIANS AS WE CALL THEM IN MEXICO, PARTICULARLY THE SITTING GOVERNOR WHOSE EXTRADITION HAS BEEN DEMANDED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP, IF SHE DOESN'T HAND HIM OVER, I THINK THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WILL GET VERY UPSET.

CONVERSELY, IF SHE DOES HAND HIM OVER, THE DANGER IS THAT MANY OF THE ACCUSATIONS MADE AGAINST THIS GOVERNOR COULD AFFECT HER DIRECTLY BECAUSE WHAT HE IS ACCUSED OF, AMONG OTHER THINGS, IS OF HAVING MADE A DEAL WITH THE CARTELS TO RECEIVE MONEY FOR HIS CAMPAIGN IN EXCHANGE FOR LETTING THEM OPERATE ONCE HE WAS ELECTED GOVERNOR.

THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN MEXICO WHO BELIEVE THAT MONEY ALSO WENT TO CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM'S CAMPAIGN.

HER PRIMARY CAMPAIGN IN 2023 AND HER PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IN 2024.

AND I'M NOT SHE WANTS HIM IN BROOKLYN IN A COURT TESTIFYING THAT HE KNEW THAT SHE HAD RECEIVED FINANCING FROM THE CARTELS.

SHE WOULD WANT TO AVOID THAT AT ALL COSTS BUT I'M NOT SURE I KNOW HOW PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOING TO REACT TO HER REFUSAL TO HAND HIM AND OTHERS OVER.

>> WELL, WE KNOW HE USUALLY TAKES ISSUES LIKE THIS VERY PERSONALLY.

SO WE'LL WAIT AND SEE HOW HE RESPONDS HERE.

ALSO INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THE U.S.

MCA IS UP FOR RENEWAL BY JULY 1st.

THAT IS BETWEEN OBVIOUSLY TRADE BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES, MEXICO, AND CANADA.

WE'LL SEE HOW THAT RENEGOTIATION PROCESS CONTINUES.

ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> NOW TURNING TO AN ISSUE THAT AFFECTS PEOPLE ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

ACCESS TO FOOD STAMPS.

ASSISTANCE PROGRAM OR SNAP BENEFITS ARE A VITAL LIFELINE FOR MANY LOW-INCOME FAMILIES HELPING THEM GET THE GROCERIES THEY NEED TO FEED THEIR HOUSEHOLDS.

NOW MILLIONS HAVE LOST THAT LIFELINE AND AT A TIME WHERE CONSUMERS ARE STRUGGLING WITH THE RISING PRICE OF NECESSITIES LIKE FOOD AND FUEL.

IT'S JUST THE LATEST CUTBACK RESULTING FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SO-CALLED BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL ACT.

A PROFESSOR AT HARVARD JOINS US TO BREAK DOWN WHAT THIS MEANS.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

JUST RECENTLY, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF HEADLINES ABOUT PEOPLE LOSING SNAP BENEFITS.

I GUESS TO SET THE TABLE FOR OUR AUDIENCE A LITTLE BIT, HOW SIGNIFICANT ARE THE CHANGES, AND HOW DO SNAP BENEFITS WORK IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> YEAH.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

SO THE CHANGES ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT.

MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOSE ACCESS TO SNAP BENEFITS.

AND BEFORE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE CHANGES, JUST WANT TO SET THE TABLE ON HOW IMPORTANT THIS PROGRAM IS.

THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS, IT USED TO BE CALLED FOOD STAMPS, IT'S THE NATION'S LARGEST ANTI-HUNGER PROGRAM.

IT SERVES ABOUT 42 MILLION INDIVIDUALS A MONTH, THAT'S ABOUT ONE IN EIGHT AMERICANS.

NOW 70% OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE CHILDREN, OLDER ADULTS, OR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF FAMILIES THAT PARTICIPATE IN SNAP HAVE INCOMES BELOW THE POVERTY LINE, WHICH IS ABOUT $33,000 FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR.

AND THERE'S TONS OF EVIDENCE WHICH SHOWS THAT SNAP HAS POSITIVE IMPACTS ON THE ECONOMY AND IT HAS POSITIVE IMPACTS ON INDIVIDUALS.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO THE ECONOMY, SNAP HELPS TO STABILIZE IT BECAUSE IT'S DESIGNED TO BE COUNTER- CYCLICAL.

THAT MEANS AS THE ECONOMY WORSENS, ENROLLMENT GOES UP, AND AS THE ECONOMY IMPROVES, ENROLLMENT GOES DOWN.

AND IT'S BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE AT THAT DURING THE GREAT RECESSION, DURING COVID.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT FOR LOCAL ECONOMIES, SNAP IS VERY EFFECTIVE.

SO FOR EVERY DOLLAR IN SNAP BENEFITS THAT GENERATES ABOUT $1.50 TO $1.80 IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

FOR INDIVIDUALS, SNAP DOES A LOT OF REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS.

IT HELPS TO LIFT FAMILIES OUT OF POVERTY BECAUSE IT PROVIDES MONTHLY MONEY FOR FOOD, SO THEN FAMILIES CAN FREE UP SOME OF THEIR INCOME FOR OTHER THINGS THEY NEED LIKE RENT AND UTILITIES.

IT ALSO HELPS TO REDUCE FOOD INSECURITY BY ABOUT 30% AND IMPROVES HEALTH AND WELL BEING.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE ANNUAL MEDICAL COSTS FOR A SNAP PARTICIPANT ARE ABOUT 25% LOWER THAN SOMEONE WHO'S ELIGIBLE FOR THE PROGRAM BUT NOT PARTICIPATING.

>> WHAT ARE THE RATIONALES BEING OFFERED?

THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TEMPORARY, THERE ISN'T ANY INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO GET OFF OF SNAP, START WORKING, BE ON THEIR OWN ANYMORE.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT THINKING?

>> SNAP HAS VERY CLEAR REQUIREMENTS, WHICH IS BASED ON OUR INCOME.

IT'S BASED ON YOUR ASSETS.

FAMILIES QUALIFY BECAUSE THEY FALL INTO A CATEGORY THAT SUGGESTS THEY HAVE NEED FOR IT'S ALSO THE CASE WHILE COVID HAS ENDED IN A LOT OF THE TEMPORARY PROGRAMS THAT WERE IN PLACE DURING COVID HAVE ENDED, FOOD PRICES REMAIN HIGH.

THEY'RE ABOUT 30% HIGHER THAN THEY WERE THREE YEARS AGO.

SO FAMILIES ON THE PROGRAM ARE REALLY STRUGGLING.

IN FACT, THERE WAS A STUDY THAT WAS DONE WHICH FOUND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SNAP BENEFIT, WHICH IS ABOUT $180 PER PERSON PER MONTH, THAT'S ABOUT $6 A DAY.

WHAT THE ANALYSIS SHOWS IS THAT IT IS ONLY SUFFICIENT TO BUY A MODERATELY PRICED MEAL IN 1% OF U.S.

COUNTIES, WHICH MEANS THAT IN 99% OF U.S.

COUNTIES, THE BENEFIT IS NOT ADEQUATE.

>> I WONDER ALSO ABOUT THE COST OF LIVING RIGHT NOW IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, FOOD PRICES ARE UP, AND THAT'S WHAT SNAP TARGETS.

BUT YOU LOOK AT YOUR OVERALL ACCOUNT BECAUSE OF ALL THE OTHER COSTS YOU HAVE, SO IT SEEMS LIKE THIS AMOUNT THAT YOU WOULD GET PER MONTH ISN'T NECESSARILY SOMETHING THAT FLEXES AND SHRINKS RELATIVE TO THE OTHER COSTS THAT MIGHT BE ADDING UP.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT SNAP BENEFITS HAVE BEEN SO SUCCESSFUL IS THAT THEY'RE VERY STEADY.

SO IF YOU'RE RECEIVING THESE BENEFITS, THAT'S FREEING UP YOUR RESOURCES FOR ALL THESE OTHER COSTS THAT ARE INCREASING.

THE OTHER THING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT IT IS NOT THE CASE THAT THE CHARITABLE FOOD SECTOR CAN COME IN AND FIX ALL THIS.

YOU MIGHT REMEMBER DURING COVID THE LONG LINES WE SAW AT FOOD BANKS AND FOOD PANTRIES.

WHILE THEY'RE SO IMPORTANT FOR HELPING FAMILIES, THEY ONLY COVER ABOUT ONE MEAL OUT OF NINE THAT SNAP PROVIDES.

SO AS FAMILIES ARE LOSING ACCESS TO THE PROGRAM BECAUSE OF THE CHANGES THROUGH HR-1, THERE'S NOT AS IF THERE ARE OTHER PARTS OF THE CHARITABLE FOOD SYSTEM THAT CAN STEP IN AND REALLY MAKE FAMILIES WHOLE AGAIN.

>> LET'S GO THROUGH SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT PEOPLE ARE HEARING ABOUT.

I GUESS THE FIRST IS THE REALLY LARGE SCALE, THE $187 BILLION IN FUNDING.

PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE FOR >> YEAH.

SO THE LAW PASSED IN JULY OF 2025, AND IT MAKES MAJOR STRUCTURAL CHANGES, AND THOSE STRUCTURAL CHANGES ARE GOING TO MEAN THAT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LOSE COVERAGE.

YOU MENTIONED THE CUT TO OVERALL, THE OVERALL SIZE OF THE PROGRAM.

SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS, SO BETWEEN NOW AND 2034, IS THAT THE OVERALL SIZE OF THE SNAP PROGRAM WILL GO DOWN BY $187 BILLION.

THAT IS A 20% CUT, AND IT'S THE LARGEST CUT IN THE PROGRAM'S HISTORY.

THAT'S ONE BIG STRUCTURAL CHANGE.

ANOTHER BIG STRUCTURAL CHANGE, THE LAW IS EXPANDING THE NUMBER OF ADULTS THAT ARE SUBJECT TO WHAT ARE CALLED THREE-MONTH TIME LIMITS.

AND THAT MEANS YOU CAN ONLY RECEIVE SNAP FOR THREE MONTHS WITHIN THREE YEARS UNLESS YOU WORK FOR 20 HOURS A WEEK OR 80 HOURS A MONTH.

SO THOSE NEW RULES ARE GOING TO APPLY TO A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT GROUPS.

IT WILL APPLY TO ADULTS THAT ARE AGES 55-64, AND THEY DON'T HAVE DEPENDENTS.

AND IT USED TO BE 18-54, SO IT'S EXPANDED THAT GROUP IT'S GOING TO APPLY TO CAREGIVERS OR PARENTS THAT HAVE CHILDREN THAT ARE AGE 14 OR OLDER.

IT USED TO BE AGE 18.

THEN PREVIOUSLY EXEMPT GROUPS ARE BEING PULLED IN.

VETERANS, PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, AND YOUTH AGING OUT OF FOSTER CARE.

TO MAKE THAT MORE CONCRETE, TAKE A SINGLE MOM.

SHE HAS A 15-YEAR-OLD CHILD AND SHE'S WORKING PART TIME TO TAKE CARE OF HER CHILD AND SHE LOSES HER ELIGIBILITY.

HER FAMILY'S OVERALL MONTHLY SNAP ASSISTANCE WILL GO FROM $546 A MONTH TO $298 A MONTH.

SO THAT'S A HUGE SHIFT FOR A FAMILY.

AND THEN THE THIRD THING THAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A BIG SHIFT IN THE COST OF THE PROGRAM TOWARD THE STATES.

AND SO HISTORICALLY, SNAP AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD SPLIT THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS OF THE PROGRAM.

THAT'S A SMALLER AMOUNT OF THE OVERALL PIE OF THE PROGRAM.

NOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN FISCAL YEAR 2027 OR THIS OCTOBER IS THAT STATES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR 75% OF ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

THAT'S MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT STATES WILL HAVE TO START PAYING.

THE BIGGER CHANGE FOR STATES IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR, FISCAL YEAR '28.

STATES WILL HAVE TO PAY A SHARE OF THE SNAP BENEFITS AND THAT'S GOING TO RANGE FROM 5% TO 15% BASED ON THEIR PAYMENT ERROR RATES.

WHAT PAYMENT ERROR RATES REFER TO IS THE AMOUNT A FAMILY IS UNDER OR OVERPAID FOR THEIR SNAP BENEFIT.

THIS IS WHERE STATES COULD FACE HUGE, HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY.

JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, IF A STATE HAS AN ERROR RATE OVER 10%, THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY 15% OF BENEFITS WHEN THIS GOES INTO EFFECT.

IT'S HUGE.

SO IN FISCAL YEAR '24, NORTH CAROLINA'S ERROR RATE WAS 10.2%.

THE STATE RECEIVED $2.9 IN ANNUAL SNAP BENEFITS FOR PEOPLE IN THE STATE.

BASED ON THIS NEW PENALTY, NORTH CAROLINA WOULD OWE $440 MILLION.

SCRAMBLING TO TRY TO WORK ON THEIR PAYMENT ERROR RATES RIGHT NOW.

>> SO IF YOU SUDDENLY HAVE A NEW PAYMENT, IF YOU'RE A STATE, OF $440 MILLION THAT YOU DIDN'T PLAN FOR, WHAT ARE YOUR OPTIONS?

I MEAN, COULD STATES JUST SAY YOU KNOW WHAT?

HOW ABOUT I JUST TURN SNAP OFF ALL TOGETHER?

>> THEY CAN.

THEY CAN.

AND IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHAT WILL HAPPEN, BUT YES, STATES COULD CHOOSE TO EXIT THE PROGRAM ENTIRELY.

WHICH WOULD LEAVE MILLIONS OF FAMILIES WITHOUT A LIFELINE FOR FOOD.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LARGER TIMELINE HERE, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS HAPPENING AT THIS JUNCTURE NOW?

I MEAN, WERE THERE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS, WERE THERE ANY KINDS OF FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE?

WERE THERE RED FLAGS GOING UP THAT SAID SNAP NEEDS SIGNIFICANT STRUCTURAL REFORM, AND THESE SORTS OF CUTS ARE WHAT'S NECESSARY?

>> YEAH.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE SEPARATE FRAUD FROM PAYMENT ERROR.

SO FRAUD IS INTENTIONALLY TRYING TO REMOVE MONEY FROM THE PROGRAM.

AND ACTUALLY, FRAUD RATES IN SNAP ARE VERY LOW.

THEY'RE EVEN LOW RELATIVE TO OTHER SAFETY NET PROGRAMS THAT THE GOVERNMENT RUNS.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO FRAUD, SNAP IS DOING QUITE WELL.

SO ANOTHER QUESTION, WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH PAYMENT ERROR RATES AND WHY HAVE THEY GONE UP?

THEY HAVE GONE UP IN RECENT YEARS, BUT THE QUESTION IS WHY?

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED DURING COVID IS THAT TEMPORARY MEASURES WERE PUT IN PLACE WITH THE GOAL OF HELPING FAMILIES TO MAINTAIN OR TO CREATE ACCESS TO SNAP BECAUSE THE GOAL WAS WE NEED TO CONTROL FOOD INSECURITY.

IF YOU REMEMBER, I MENTIONED WHEN THE GREAT RECESSION HAPPENED AND THERE WAS A BIG UPSWING OF THE PEOPLE ON SNAP, THERE WAS A BIG UPSWING OF FOOD INSECURITY.

WITH THE INCREASES THAT HAPPENED WITH THE ENROLLMENT INTO SNAP, FOOD INSECURITY WAS KEPT VERY STEADY AT ABOUT 10% DURING COVID, WHICH WAS A HUGE HOW POWERFUL THE PROGRAM COULD BE.

SO BASICALLY, THESE TEMPORARY CHANGES THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WERE DESIGNED TO HELP STATES WITH THIS ENORMOUS CASE LOAD THEY WERE HAVING TO DEAL WITH.

STATES HAD A NUMBER OF OPTIONS.

MOST OF THEM TOOK ADVANTAGE OF ONE OF THE THREE OPTIONS SO THEY COULD WAIVE THE INTERVIEW REQUIREMENTS DURING THE APPLICATION OR RECERTIFICATION, THEY COULD EXTEND THE CERTIFICATION PERIOD, AND YOU CAN EVEN USE TELEPHONE SIGNATURES TO STREAMLINE REMOTE APPLICATION PROCESSING.

ONE THING THAT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW IS THAT THE PAYMENT ERROR RATES ARE REALLY REFLECTING UNINTENTIONAL MISTAKES MADE BY THE STATE AGENCY OR THE APPLICANTS.

THAT COULD INCLUDE YOU MAKE A MISCALCULATION OR THERE'S INCOMPLETE INFORMATION.

AGAIN, THE PRIORITY DURING COVID WAS TO KEEP THE FOOD ASSISTANCE FLOWING.

BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A REAL CHALLENGE FOR STATES TO ACTUALLY REIGN THESE PAYMENT ERROR RATES IN BY FISCAL YEAR 2028 IN PART BECAUSE THERE'S THIS COMPRESSED TIMELINE.

THERE'S BEEN THIS BIG REDUCTION IN FORCE BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, SO THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE IN PLACE TO DO ALL OF THIS ADMINISTRATIVE WORK.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPORTING THESE CHANGES SAY IS IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO DOCUMENT THAT YOU'RE WORKING 20 HOURS A WEEK.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT IDEA?

>> WELL, ONE THING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KNOW IS THERE IS A MISCONCEPTION THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN SNAP ARE NOT WORKING.

WHAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF LITERATURE SHOWS IS PEOPLE WHO CAN WORK, DO WORK.

AND SO WHAT THIS TIME LIMIT REQUIREMENT IS, WHICH AGAIN IS EXPANDING THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO RESPOND TO THIS STRICTER TIME LIMIT, AND IF THEY DON'T, THEY ONLY GET BENEFITS FOR THREE MONTHS OUT OF THREE YEARS.

IT'S REALLY JUST A PAPERWORK REQUIREMENT.

HERE'S WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN IN PRACTICE.

AGAIN, MOST PEOPLE WHO CAN WORK, DO WORK.

NOW YOU'RE SUBJECT TO THIS ADDITIONAL ROLE.

YOU HAVE TO PERSONALLY DOCUMENT YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT IT TO THE STATE AGENCY.

THE STATE AGENCY THEN HAS TO DOCUMENT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE STILL ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE BENEFITS.

SO IT'S CREATING A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF PAPERWORK, AND THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO PROCESS ALL THIS PAPERWORK.

IT'S JUST GOING TO GUM UP THE SYSTEM.

>> WHAT ABOUT A POPULATION THAT MIGHT BE QUALIFYING WHO HAVE MIXED IMMIGRANT HOUSEHOLDS?

SO THE CHILD MIGHT BE BORN IN THE UNITED STATES, U.S.

CITIZEN, BUT MAYBE ONE OF THE PARENTS IS NOT.

I WONDER IF WHAT WE'VE BEEN LIVING THROUGH FOR THE LAST YEAR OR SO, THE INCREASED DEPORTATIONS, THE FOCUS ON I.C.E.

RAIDS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, WHETHER THAT'S AFFECTING WHO WILL BOTHER TO REGISTER AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CHILD WHO'S ELIGIBLE FOR THE BENEFITS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT.

SO IT IS DEFINITELY THE CASE THAT CONFUSION ABOUT WHO WAS ELIGIBLE FOR SNAP RIGHT NOW, PARTICULARLY AMONG MIXED IMMIGRANT HOUSEHOLDS IS VERY, VERY HIGH.

WE'VE SEEN THIS IN THE PAST.

WE'RE DEFINITELY SEEING IT NOW.

IT'S POSSIBLE INDIVIDUALS WHO COULD GET BENEFITS FOR THEIR CHILDREN BUT NOT FOR THEMSELVES ARE OPTING NOT TO APPLY BECAUSE THERE'S FEAR IT WILL IMPACT IMMIGRATION STATUS.

THERE'S CONFUSION FOR WHO AND WHO IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR SNAP BENEFITS.

>> OFTENTIMES WE HEAR FROM TEACHERS IN CLASSROOMS THAT IF A KID'S NOT FED OVERNIGHT OR IF THE SCHOOL IS LITERALLY THE ONLY PLACE THEY'RE GETTING ONE MEAL A DAY AND THERE IS NO SNAP BENEFITS, THERE IS NO FOOD STAMP, ETC.

AT HOME THAT THEY DON'T CONCENTRATE AS WELL, ETC.

WHAT ARE THE OTHER KINDS OF COSTS WE'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT THAT WHEN THESE SNAP BENEFITS DISAPPEAR, THAT WE'RE GOING TO EVENTUALLY COLLECTIVELY PAY FOR IN DIFFERENT WAYS?

>> SO AGAIN, ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS SNAP IS DOING, IT'S PROTECTING FAMILIES FROM FOOD INSECURITY.

IT'S NOT JUST THAT THEY'RE HUNGER.

WE KNOW IF A HOUSEHOLD OR INDIVIDUAL HAS FOOD INSECURITY, THERE ARE NEGATIVE HEALTH OUTCOMES AND ACADEMIC OUTCOMES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.

HEALTH IS DIABETES AND HEART DISEASE AND AN INCREASED OF BIRTH DEFECTS, GREATER RISK FOR COGNITIVE PROBLEMS, AND EVEN MENTAL ILLNESS.

IF YOU'RE A CHILD IN SCHOOL AND YOUR FAMILY RECEIVES SNAP BENEFITS AND THOSE BENEFITS GO AWAY, THEN YOU'RE HUNGRY.

IF YOU'RE HUNGRY, YOU'RE NOT FOCUSED.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT FOOD INSECURITY AND ITS RELATIONSHIP TO HEALTH AND EDUCATION, THAT COSTS THE COUNTRY ABOUT $179 BILLION ANNUALLY.

>> RIGHT NOW, THERE'S THIS POLITICAL IMPETUS TO MAKE YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT REFRAMING THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT FOOD INSECURITY AND BENEFITS, AND I'M WONDERING IS THERE SOME SORT OF POLITICAL PATH HERE WHERE THESE TWO IDEOLOGIES COULD HAVE SOME OVERLAP AND SEE THE BENEFIT IN HAVING PEOPLE FED.

>> YEAH.

SO YOU KNOW, THE PLATFORM, THE MAKE AMERICA HEALTHY AGAIN PLATFORM IS PREMISED ON THE IDEA THAT CHRONIC DISEASE IS HIGH, WHICH IS TRUE.

AND THAT THOSE RATES NEED TO BE BROUGHT DOWN, ESPECIALLY AMONG CHILDREN, WHICH IS ALSO TRUE.

THE PLATFORM MAKES AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF SENSE IN THEORY.

THE CHALLENGE IS THAT THE WAY THE PLATFORM IS BEING IMPLEMENTED IS THAT WE'RE SEEING THESE CHANGES LIKE THESE MASSIVE CUTS TO SNAP, WHICH ARE COMPLETELY UNDERMINING THE ABILITY OF THE MAHA PLATFORM.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY FOR MAHA TO HAVE IMPACT, BUT THE CHANGES WE'RE SEEING AS PART OF THIS ADMINISTRATION ARE REALLY WORKING FOR COUNTER PURPOSES.

>> I'M SPEAKING TO YOU NOW AS A PRESTIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS IN AMERICA, HARVARD, AND I'VE READ IN YOUR PROFILE THAT AS A CHILD GROWING UP IN INNER CITY BALTIMORE THAT YOUR FAMILY BENEFITED FROM SNAP AND WIC.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

SO GROWING UP AND I GREW UP IN INNER CITY BALTIMORE IN A LOW- INCOME WORKING CLASS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND MY PARENTS WERE PUBLIC SCHOOLTEACHERS.

MY MOM STEPPED OUT OF THE WORK FORCE TO TAKE CARE OF US, AND WE RECEIVED SNAP BENEFITS FOR A PERIOD, WIC BENEFITS FOR A PERIOD.

IT WAS A CRITICAL LIFELINE FOR MY FAMILY.

IT'S BEEN A REAL HONOR TO BE ABLE TO WORK ON THESE PROGRAMS PROFESSIONALLY AND TO BE AN ALUMNI OF THESE PROGRAMS BECAUSE I KNOW FIRSTHAND HOW IMPACTFUL THEY CAN BE.

>> WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS WE'RE GOING TO START SEEING THAT YOU KNOW AND IS SUPPORTED BY THE DATA IN TWO YEARS, FIVE YEARS WHEN THESE POPULATIONS OF SNAP SHRINK?

>> ONE THING WE'VE SEEN, THE LAW WAS PASSED, HR-1 WAS PASSED IN JULY OF 2025, SIX MONTHS LATER IN FEBRUARY, SNAP ENROLLMENT HAD GONE DOWN BY 3.5 MILLION OR 9%.

THE REDUCTION OF THE PROGRAM IS HAPPENING, AND IT'S HAPPENING VERY QUICKLY.

IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF SOMEONE LOSES SNAP BENEFITS BECAUSE OF THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING THROUGH HR-1, IT CAN ALSO DISRUPT THEIR ACCESS TO OTHER FEDERAL SAFETY NET PROGRAMS LIKE THE BIG CUTS TO MEDICAID THROUGH HR-1.

YOU LOSE MEDICAID, YOU ALSO LOSE SNAP, AND FAMILIES ARE FACING THIS TIDAL WAVE OF IMPACTS AND THEY WILL NOT HAVE RESOURCES TO DEAL WITH THEM.

A FINAL POINT TO MENTION AS ALL THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING IS WE ARE LOSING OUR ABILITY TO MEASURE THESE IMPACTS BECAUSE THE NATIONAL MONITORING SYSTEM, WHICH WAS THE HOUSEHOLD FOOD SECURITY REPORT, WHICH COMES OUT ANNUALLY, THAT'S BEEN ELIMINATED.

THE LAST DATA CAME OUT IN JANUARY 2025, AND IT WILL NOT BE GOING FORWARD.

AND SO WITHOUT THOSE METRICS TO THESE CHANGES HAVING ON FOOD INSECURITY, WHAT WE'RE LIKELY TO SEE IF WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON PROGRAM COSTS, ON ERROR RATES, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE FOCUSING ON THE THING SNAP IS DESIGNED TO ADDRESS, WHICH IS FOOD INSECURITY.

THAT GIVES ME A GREAT AMOUNT OF CONCERN IN THE COMING FIVE YEARS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> NOW TO PARIS WHERE A CENTURIES OLD LANDMARK IS BEING COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED.

THE CITY'S OLDEST BRIDGE HAS BECOME THE LATEST CANVAS FOR THE ACCLAIMED FRENCH ARTIST JR WHO HAS TURNED IT INTO A GIANT WALKABLE CAVE.

IF IT LOOKS FAMILIAR IT'S BECAUSE IT'S A TRIBUTE TO LATE ARTIST KRISTO AND JEAN CLAUDE.

HERE'S WHAT CRISTO SAID ABOUT THE PROJECT 2018.

>> 1958.

WE DID BEAUTIFUL IN SEPTEMBER, AUTUMN OF 1985.

>> DID YOU GET EASY PERMISSION?

>> NO.

THAT WAS ANOTHER INCREDIBLE.

THE MAYOR OF PARIS WHO WANTED TO BECOME PRESIDENT.

BECAUSE THE BRIDGE IS NATIONAL TREASURE WAS CONTROLLED BY THE STATE OF FRANCE.

THEY DO NOT TALK TO EACH OTHER.

AND WE DID AN ENORMOUS EFFORT TO CONVINCE THEM TO AGREE ON ONE THING.

>> IT'S AMAZING YOU GOT THEM TO AGREE ON THAT.

A CONSERVATIVE MAYOR AND THE SOCIALIST PRESIDENT OF FRANCE.

>> THAT WAS THE REALLY VERY DIFFICULT.

>> FOR JR, IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE BUSY PARISIANS DO SOMETHING UNUSUAL, STOP AND LOOK AROUND.

WE GAINED EXCLUSIVE EARLY ACCESS.

>> Reporter: FOR WEEKS, IT'S IT'S OFTEN SAID THAT PARIS IS JUST AN OPEN AIR MUSEUM.

THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO A NEW LEVEL BY THE FRENCH ARTIST JR AND THIS MONUMENTAL GROTTO.

LET'S HAVE A LOOK INSIDE.

>> THE IDEA ALSO IS THAT WE'RE ALL WRAPPED UP IN ALGORITHMS.

AS YOU WALK THROUGH HERE, AND IT TAKES 15 MINUTES TO GET TO THE END OF THE BRIDGE, EVERYONE WHO WALKS THROUGH HERE IS DOING IT TOGETHER.

THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

>> WE FINISHED TWO WEEKS AGO.

>> THIS HOLDS BECAUSE OF AIR PRESSURE.

>> EXACTLY.

IT'S JUST PRESSURE BEHIND THE WALLS.

>> Reporter: IT WAS IN 1985 IT WAS WRAPPED IN FABRIC BY THE ARTISTS CRISTO AND JEAN CLAUDE.

ANOTHER OF CRISTO'S IDEAS WAS REALIZED IN 2018, AN ARTISTIC LEGACY THAT JR'S CAVE HONORS AND EVOLVES.

>> YOU REALLY FEEL IT AROUND YOU.

>> IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE WALKING THROUGH A CAVE.

THAT'S HOW IT FEELS.

>> LIKE YOU'RE DEEP IN A CAVE.

WE'RE STILL OUTSIDE AND WE'RE STILL ON THE BRIDGE.

>> Reporter: A CHANCE FOR VISITORS TO LOSE THEMSELVES IN SPACE AND TIME IN ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS PLACES ON EARTH.

>> INCREDIBLE.

OUR THANKS TO MELISSA BELLE IN PARIS FOR THAT REPORT.

>>> AND FINALLY, A HISTORY- WITH AN ALL UKRAINIAN QUARTER FINAL MATCH.

TODAY IN PARIS, SETOLINO WILL HEAD TO HEAD WITH CATUCK.

CASTUC IS HEADING TO THE SEMI- FINAL, THE FIRST TENNIS PLAYER FROM HER COUNTRY TO DO SO.

THE HISTORIC SINGLES MATCH WAS MADE EVEN MORE POIGNANT WITH THE EVER-PRESENT REMINDER OF WAR RAGING BACK IN THE ATHLETE'S HOME.

HE GOT A HUGE CHEER FROM THE CROWD DURING HER COURTSIDE INTERVIEW WHEN SHE DEDICATED HER WIN TO THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AND THEIR RESILIENCE.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING ON THE SHOW, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.