Amanpour and Company

AND BROADWAY ALSO BROUGHT MY NEXT GUEST CENTER STAGE. BILLY PORTER MADE HIS NAME AS LOLA IN "KINKY BOOTS." HE WENT ON TO BECOME THE FIRST OPENLY GAY BLACK MAN TO WIN A EMMY AS A LEAD ACTOR FOR "POSE" AND IS A KEY FIGURE IN THE MOVEMENT TO DEGENDER FASHION. PORTER'S NEW AUTOBIOGRAPHY, "UNPROTECTED," IS A POWERFUL REFLECTION ON RACE, SEXUALITY, ART AND HEALING. HE HERE HE IS TALKING TO MICHELE MARTIN ABOUT FAME AND GRAPPLING WITH THE STRUCTURES AROUND MASCULINITY. >> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. >> YOU HAVE BECOME A FASHION ICON AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, A MULTI-TALENTED PERFORMER. YOU'RE A DIRECTOR AND NOW YOU HAVE WRITTEN THIS BOOK, WHICH I HAVE TO SAY IS RAW AND KIND OF SEARING IN ITS CANDOR ABOUT SOME OF THE MOST TENDER MOMENTS OF YOUR LIFE. REALLY FROM THE FIRST WORDS YOU ARE PUTTING YOUR STORY OUT THERE. YOUR IDENTITY AS AN OUT GAY BLACK MAN. >> YES. >> SO CENTRAL TO YOUR STORY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. HOW DID YOU FIRST KNOW THAT YOU WERE DIFFERENT IN A WAY THAT BOTHERED PEOPLE FOR WHATEVER REASON? >> IT WAS LIKE I WAS 5. YOU KNOW? BUT YOU I WAS IN A HOUSE FULL OF WOMEN AND VERY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. AND YOU ARE BORN GAY. WE'RE BORN THIS WAY. AND I WAS A SISSY. I WAS WHAT TRADITIONALLY IS CALLED A SISSY AND EVERYBODY WAS CONCERNED THAT THAT WAS BECAUSE I WAS HANGING OUT WITH TOO MANY WOMEN AND ALL THEY NEEDED TO DO WAS FIX ME. FIX THAT. A FEMINIST. YOU'RE NOT MASCULINE ENOUGH. THE MASCULINE CONVERSATION AT 5. IT WAS ALREADY HAPPENING WITHOUT ME. IT WAS HAPPENING ABOUT ME AND AROUND ME. WITHOUT ME. NOT HAVING ANY SAY, YOU KNOW. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT FASCINATES ME, ON THE ONE HAND, YOU ARE NOT SHY ABOUT NAMING THE PEOPLE AND THE PLACES AND THE THINGS THAT HAVE HURT YOU. BUT YOU ALSO TALK ABOUT THE GIFTS THAT THESE PEOPLE AND PLACES AND THINGS GAVE YOU, EVEN YOUR STEPFATHER. >> YOU ARE CORRECT. >> HE MOLESTED YOU FROM A VERY EARLY AGE. >> YES. >> IT'S REMARKABLE THAT YOU CAN BE SO CLEAR IN THE WAYS WHICH HE HARMED YOU AND BE SO GENEROUS IN DESCRIBING THE GIFTS HE GAVE YOU. HOW DO YOU SIT WITH THAT? >> WELL, IF IT'S HOLDING SPACE, YOU KNOW, THAT MAN IS MY SISTER'S FATHER. MY SISTER IS THE CLOSEST HUMAN BEING. SHE IS MY BEST FRIEND. WE HAVE TO PROCESS THAT. WE HAVE TO HOLD SPACE FOR ALL OF THAT. WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT. YOU KNOW? WE CAN'T BE SILENT ABOUT IT. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. THE SILENCE IS THE KILLER. WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT SO THAT WE CAN MOVE THROUGH, SO THAT WE CAN HEAL FROM IT, SO THAT THERE CAN BE FORGIVENESS AND WE CAN HEAL AND MOVE ON. MOVE ON TO BE BETTER PEOPLE. >> THIS IS NOT THE SAME ORDER OF MAGNITUDE AT ALL. BUT RECENTLY THERE WAS THIS. AS I MENTIONED, YOU HAVE BECOME LIKE A FASHION ICON. A TRAIL BLAZER FOR WEARING NOT JUST THE FABULOUSNESS, BUT OF EXPLORING KIND OF GENDER NORMS -- >> DE-GENDERING OF FASHION. >> AND RECENTLY THERE WAS THIS KIND OF -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL IT. A DUST UP OVER THE FACT THAT VOGUE PUT HARRY STYLES ON THE COVER WEARING A DRESS. WHAT IS THE CRITIQUE YOU ARE MAKING HERE? >> THE CRITIQUE IS THIS. THERE ARE SYSTEMS OF OPPRESSION AND ERASURE IN OUR CULTURE AND AROUND THE WORLD THAT HAVE PERMEATED AND POISONED EVERYTHING. RIGHT? WHEN PEOPLE OF COLOR CONTRIBUTE AND ARE LEADERS OF SOMETHING, I PERSONALLY AM A LEADER. NOT THE ONLY ONE. LET'S BE CLEAR. AND I NEVER SAID THAT. I'M NOT THE ONLY LEADER OF THIS REVOLUTION. BUT I AM ONE OF THEM. THE PART OF THE STORY THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IS THAT EARLIER IN 2019 I SAT ON A STAGE WITH ANNA WINTOUR IN FRONT OF THE "CONDE NAST" STAFF FOR THEIR YEARLY SUMMIT OR WHATEVER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S CALLED. ONE-ON-ONE, WE HAD A WONDERFUL CONVERSATION. AT THE END OF THE CONVERSATION SHE ASKED, HOW CAN WE DO BETTER? IT WAS THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE THAT I WAS SPEECHLESS. AND I DIDN'T ANSWER HER IN THE WAY THAT I SHOULD HAVE BECAUSE I WAS TOO SCARED. WHAT I SHOULD HAVE SAID TO HER WAS, PUT ME ON THE COVER. PUT ME ON THE COVER. AND LET'S HAVE THIS CONVERSATION. THAT'S WHAT I SHOULD HAVE SAID. OR PUT SOMEBODY ELSE WHO IS A LEADER ON THE COVER AND USE YOUR POWER AS VOGUE TO ELEVATE THESE VOICES AND THIS CONVERSATION. I DIDN'T SAY THAT. FIVE MONTHS LATER, HARRY STYLES IS ON THE COVER OF VOGUE, FIRST MAN IN A DRESS. THE REASON WHY I APOLOGIZED TO HARRY STYLES WAS BECAUSE THE GASLIGHTING AND THE DISTRACTION OF HIS NAME TAKES US AWAY FROM THE REAL CONVERSATION. IT'S NOT ABOUT HIM. IT'S ABOUT THE SYSTEMS OF OPPRESSION THAT MAKE IT THE CHOICE THAT MAKE HIM THE CHOICE. TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, TO PUT HIM IN A POSITION, WHEN VOGUE IS DOING THAT, THEY ARE PUTTING HIM IN A POSITION OF LEADERSHIP FOR THIS MOVE MEANT. HE IS NOT A LEADER IN THIS MOVEMENT. >> WHY DOES THIS MATTER SO MUCH, PARTICULARLY, IF I MAY, THE FASHION PIECE, THE DE-GENDERING FASHION, THE KIND OF -- THE STATEMENTS THAT YOU MAKE THROUGH YOUR APPEARANCES, THROUGH -- I MEAN, APART FROM JUST THE FABULOUSNESS? >> YEAH, I JUST THINK IT'S -- I THINK IT IS -- IT CHALLENGES THE MASCULINITY CONVERSATION. AND THE MASCULINITY CONVERSATION IS THE ONLY CONVERSATION IN OUR WORLD. TO BE MASCULINE IS TO BE THE BEST. TO BE BETTER. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE GOTTEN OVER WOMEN WEARING PANTS. THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WOMEN WEARING PANTS WAS A PROBLEM. WE GOT OVER THAT QUICK BECAUSE A BUSINESS SUIT IS STRONG. A BUSINESS SUIT IS CONSIDERED POWERFUL. PANTS ARE CONSIDERED POWERFUL. DRESSES, FEMININITY, IS NOT. SO, BASICALLY, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND WHAT WE'RE SAYING, CONSCIOUSLY AND UNCONSCIOUSLY, IS TO BE MASCULINE IS BETTER. BETTER THAN BEING FEMININE. BEING FEMININE IS LESS THAN BEING MASCULINE. AND I DON'T CAREFULLY MORE, RIGHT? I LIVED MY WHOLE LIFE NEVER BEING MASCULINE ENOUGH. I FOUGHT OR YEARS TO BE MASCULINE ENOUGH TO BE PERCEIVED AS MASCULINE ENOUGH SO THAT I COULD EAT. AND I NEVER WAS. SO I STOPPED TRYING. AND WHEN I WAS TRYING TO BE MASCULINE, I WAS BROKE AND UNEMPLOYED. BANKRUPT AND UNEMPLOYED. WHEN I LEANED INTO MY TRUTH AND MY AUTHENTICITY, LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. >> WHEN YOU RECEIVED THE EMMY, I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, YOU WON THE 2019 PRIMETIME EMMY AWARD FOR OUTSTANDING ACTOR IN A DRAMA SERIES FOR YOUR PORTRAYAL OF PRAY TELL IN "POSE." YOU WERE THE FIRST OPENLY GAY BLACK MAN TO BE NOMINATED AND WIN ANY LEAD ACTING CATEGORY. HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT MOMENT? HOW DID YOU RECEIVE THAT? >> I AM HUMBLED, YOU KNOW. IT'S THRILLING. AND FOR ME AS A BLACK QUEER OUT MAN, THE AWARDS MATTER. THEY OPEN UP A DIFFERENT KIND OF DOOR FOR ME, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN OPENED BEFORE. THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT I WAS THE FIRST, I BROKE THE GLASS CEILING. THE COMPLICATED NEWS IS, THERE IS STILL A GLASS CEILING ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW. THERE IS STILL A GLASS CEILING. IT'S STILL A CONVERSATION FOR A MAN TO SHOW UP IN A DRESS. THERE IS STILL A CONVERSATION. IT STILL STOPS EVERYTHING COLD WHEN A BOY IS WEARING A DRESS IN PUBLIC. LIKE, OKAY. YOU KNOW? >> I WAS THINKING MORE ABOUT THE BOY YOU WERE GROWING UP IN THE PITTSBURGH AREA THOUGH WHO -- YOU WERE BULLIED FROM THE WORD GO. I MEAN, YOU -- >> YES. >> I HAVE TO SAY, AS A PARENT MYSELF, THOSE PASSAGES WERE SO HARD BECAUSE IT SPEAKS TO THE TITLE OF YOUR BOOK, "UNPROTECTED." YOU WERE SO UNPROTECTED. TALK MORE ABOUT, LIKE, THE ARTS, THOUGH, AS A REFUGE FOR YOU. TELL ME ABOUT HOW YOU FIGURED THAT OUT. >> IT IS THE MOST PROFOUND PART OF THE JOURNEY. SIXTH GRADE I WAS INTRODUCED TO THEATER. AND I WAS JUST CHANGED. I WAS FOREVER CHANGED. I WAS BIT BY THE BUG. THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTOOD ME, WHO RESPECTED ME. I HAD FOUND MY TRIBE. AND I HAD FOUND A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO -- WHOSE MINDS WERE EXPANSIVE, WHICH ALLOWED FOR ME TO EXPAND MY MIND OUTSIDE OF THE RELIGIOUS BUBBLE THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT I KNEW AND THE ONLY THING THAT EVERYBODY AROUND ME KNEW. IT WAS MAGICAL TO FIND THE REFUGE INSIDE OF ALL OF THE TRAUMA THAT I WAS GOING THROUGH. >> BUT HOW DID YOU FACE THE CONSTANT REJECTION? I MEAN, YOU FACED THAT SO OFTEN AS AN ACTOR, AS AN ARTIST. I MEAN, HOW DID YOU -- >> THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO SOUND EGOIC, AND I DON'T LIKE TO SOUND THAT WAY, BUT IT'S JUST THE TRUTH. I'M TALENTED. I KNOW I'M TALENTED. AND I HAVE WORKED AT EVERY PART OF IT. NEVER ONCE HAVE I LEANED BACK ON THOSE TALENTED LAURELS. I WENT TO SCHOOL. I STUDIED EVERY SINGLE BIT OF IT. THERE WAS A PART OF ME THAT ALWAYS KNEW THAT THE REJECTION THAT I WAS RECEIVING DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME OR MY TALENT. >> WHY DO YOU THINK YOU KNEW THAT? >> BECAUSE I'M A BLACK MAN IN AMERICA. YOU'VE GOT TO BE TEN TIMES BETTER THAN YOUR -- YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE -- I SAT AND WATCHED OUT OF MY WHITE COUNTERPARTS BECOME STARS AND WORK ALL THE TIME. IF THEY WEREN'T STARS, THEY WERE WORKING ALL THE TIME AND I WAS UNEMPLOYED AND BANKRUPT FOR YEARS. I STAYED IN IT. I STAYED IT IN. YOU'VE GOT TO STAY IN IT. YOU KNOW? I STAYED IT IN AND MY NUMBER GOT CALLED. >> WHAT ABOUT -- WHAT HAS THAT MADE FOR YOU? IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT PRAY TELL WAS WRITTEN FOR YOU? >> YES. >> WHAT HAS THAT MEANT TO YOU? >> IT'S EVERYTHING. 1995 I WENT AND SAW TONY KUSHNER'S "ANGELS IN AMERICA" ON BROADWAY. FIRST TIME I SAW A GAY CHARACTER PLAYED BY THE BRILLIANT JEFFREY WRIGHT, WHO WASN'T THE BUTT OF THE JOKE, WHO WASN'T REVILED, MO WAS THE MORAL AND SPIRITUAL COMPASS OF THE STORY. CHANGED THE TRAJECTORY OF MY LIFE. I TOOK MYSELF OUT OF THE TRAJECTORY THAT IT WAS AND STARTED DOWN THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED. THAT WAS 1994. I WENT THROUGH A LOT OF STUFF BETWEEN 1994 AND 2010. 2010 I COME BACK AFTER NOT HAVING WORKED FOR TEN YEARS TO THE REVIVAL OF "ANGELS IN AMERICA" OFFBROADWAY. WHEN I WENT THAT PLAY, I SAID THAT IS THE KIND OF ART I WANT TO DO AND NOBODY KNOWS. BY 2010, THEY KNEW. BY 2013, IT WAS "KINKY BOOTS." THEN BY 2016 IT WAS "POSE." AND THAT IS THE CULMINATION AND THE AFFIRMATION OF ME CHOOSING MYSELF, OF ME CHOOSING SERVICE. IF SERVICE IS YOUR INTENTION, EVERYTHING ELSE WILL WORK ITSELF OUT. I ASKED MYSELF, WHAT DID SERVICE LOOK LIKE FOR ME IN AN INDUSTRY AND A WORLD THAT IS INHERENTLY NARCISSISTIC? HIT ME LIKE A TON OF BRICKS. IT'S YOUR QUEERNESS. QUEERNESS WHEN NOBODY ELSE WAS BEING QUEER. QUEERNESS WHEN MY -- WITH ME LEANING INTO MY QUEERNESS -- I WAS UNEMPLOYED AND BANKRUPT. BUT I LEANED INTO IT ANYWAY. AND ALL OF THESE YEARS LATER HERE I SIT. IN THE MIDDLE OF MY SERVICE. IN THE MIDDLE OF MY CALLING. IN THE MIDDLE OF MY MINISTRY. RIGHT IN THE CENTER OF IT. >> EARLIER THIS YEAR YOU DISCLOSED YOU HAVE BEEN LIVING WITH HIV FOR 14 YEARS. WOULD YOU MIND SHARING ABOUT YOUR DECISION TO TALK ABOUT IT? >> YEAH. WELL, LET ME SHARE MY DECISION NOT TO TALK ABOUT IT FIRST. >> OKAY. >> YOU KNOW, 2007 WAS ONE OF THE WORST YEARS OF MY LIFE. FEBRUARY I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH HEREDITARY TYPE 2 DIABETES. MARCH I WAS SIGNING BANKRUPTCY PAPERS. AND BY JUNE, I WAS HIV-POSITIVE. EVERY STATISTIC, I BECAME THE STATISTIC THAT EVERYBODY SAID I WOULD BE. IT ALMOST TOOK ME OUT. THAT ALMOST TOOK ME OUT OF HERE. AND THE ONLY WAY THAT I COULD DEAL WITH IT IN THE MOMENT WAS TO NOT TALK ABOUT IT AND STAY BUSY. I ALSO DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT MY MOTHER TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH YET ANOTHER, YOU KNOW -- SHE WAS VILIFIED BY HER RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY BECAUSE I WAS GAY. AND I WOULDN'T CONFORM TO WHAT THEY THOUGHT THAT I SHOULD CONFORM TO, AND SHE TOOK A LOT OF STUFF FOR THAT. AND I DIDN'T WANT HER TO HAVE TO LIVE THROUGH THE I TOLD YOU SO THAT WOULD COME WITH ME REVEALING THAT DIAGNOSIS. SO I SAT IN THE SHAME AND I SAT IN THE SILENCE AND I WAS DYING A SLOW DEATH FOR 14 YEARS. WHEN I BOOKED PRAY TELL ON "POSE," I KNEW THERE WAS A HEALING COMING. I KNEW THAT WHATEVER THIS CHARACTER WAS, WAS GOING TO STAND IN PROXY FOR A JOURNEY TOWARDS MY OWN HEALING. I KNEW IT WAS GONNA BECAUSE ART HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT FOR ME. SO I ALLOWED MYSELF TO LEAN INTO THAT. >> AND PRAY TELL DOES, THERE IS A STORYLINE IN "POSE" WHERE PRAY TELL IS LIVING THROUGH HIS ILLNESS. >> YES. >> AND IN DESPAIR AT SOME POINT. >> YES. >> SO THE COMMUNITY LET'S HIM KNOW HOW MUCH THEY LOVE AND NEED HIM. AND SO HAS COMMUNITY DONE THAT FOR YOU? >> YES. PRAY TELL DIES. AND I REMEMBER GOING IN ON THE DAY THAT I WAS SHOOTING THAT SCENE AND I SAID, TODAY IS THE DEATH OF PRAY TELL. BUT THE REBIRTH OF BILLY. >> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, BILLY PORTER, FOR TALKING WITH US. >> THANK YOU. IT WAS A DELIGHT.