Amanpour and Company

WE TURN TO ANOTHER ONE, A STORY OF RESILIENCE, A NETFLIX SHOW BASED ON STEPHANIE LAND'S MEMOIR, "MAID" HARD WORK, LOW PAY AND A MOTHER'S WILL TO SURVIVE. THE SERIES EXPOSSES THE HARSH REALITY OF LIVING BELOW THE POVERTY LINE IN AMERICA AS IT FOLLOWS THE YOUNG MOTHER'S FIGHT TOES KEEP AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP AND HERE IS STEPHANIE LAND SPEAKING WITH MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT HER JOURNEY. >> THANKS, CHRISTIANE. STEPHANIE LAND, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. THIS IS REALLY INCREDIBLE. >> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT. HOW DO YOU WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THIS? A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO YOU WERE CLEANING OUT FOLKS' DIRTY DISHES AND WORSE, AND NOW, GOSH, YOU'RE THE SOURCE MATERIAL AND YOU PROVIDED THE SOURCE MATERIAL FOR A HIT SERIES THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL THAT NETFLIX HAS EVER PUT ON. HOW DO YOU WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THAT? THE AMOUNT OF GOOD RECEPTION THAT THE SERIES HAS RECEIVED HAS BEEN REALLY SURPRISING TO ME, HONESTLY. NOT ONLY A HUGE RELIEF AND IT'S INCREDIBLE TO SEE HOW MANY OTHER STORIES HOW MANY OTHER STORIES ARE COMING OUT AND HOW PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES. THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SHELTER AND I'M ALEX. I'M TRYING TO PIECE TOGETHER HOW I GOT HERE. >> MY MOM IS UNDIAGNOSED BIPOLAR AND SHE'S MIA RIGHT NOW. I GOT INTO COLLEGE. I WANTED TO BE A WRITER, BUT I GOT PREGNANT. NOW I'M A SINGLE MOM. >> DO YOU HAVE A BACKGROUND CHECK? >> I'M STARTING TODAY. >> THAT'S GOOD NEWS, AIN'T IT, BROKE GIRL? >> WE COMPOST. CAN YOU READ OR SHOULD I SHOW YOU? >> I CAN READ. >> ONE THING THAT THE BOOK MAKES CLEAR AND THAT THE TV SERIES MAKES VERY CLEAR FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED THIS IS JUST HOW CLOSE TO THE EDGE YOU CAN BE AND JUST HOW EVERY FINANCIAL DECISION CAN HAVE A CONSEQUENCE. EVERY FINANCIAL DECISION HAS TO BE SO CAREFULLY THOUGHT THROUGH. LIKE WHEN YOU'RE POOR, YOU CAN NEVER MAKE A MISTAKE, RIGHT? I JUST WONDER IF YOU CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT OR HOW YOU NAVIGATED THAT? >> IT ALWAYS STRUCK ME THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT POOR PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN HOW TO BUDGET BECAUSE I WAS CONSTANTLY BUDGETING IN MY HEAD. HOW THE SERIES DID THE LITTLE NUMBERS GOING DOWN THE SIDE. THAT WAS VERY ACCURATE. >> SO YOU'VES 25 BUCKS COMES OUT OF YOUR FIRST CHECK. >> I REMEMBER STANDING IN THE GROCERY STORE AND DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT I COULD AFFORD A $2 SPONGE, AND I WAS GOING THROUGH NOT JUST MY BANK ACCOUNT, BUT, LIKE, THE TWO CREDIT CARDS THAT I HAD. WHEN IS THE PAYMENT GOING TO POST? DO I HAVE ANYTHING LEFT IN THERE AND IT'S FOR A SPONGE, AND I DIDN'T GET IT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I REMEMBERED THAT I NEEDED TAMPONS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND WHEN YOU'RE THAT CLOSE ALL THE TIME EVERY DECISION IS HUGE. YOU KNOW, NOT EVEN -- LIKE YOUR CAR NOT STARTING OR A FLAT TIRE COULD MEAN THAT YOU DON'T PAY RENT THAT MONTH, AND IT'S SUCH A PRECARIOUSNESS, AND IT'S STRESSFUL. I MEAN, IT'S -- I THINK THAT IQ IS LOWERED COGNITIVELY BY 20 POINTS JUST FROM BEING IN POVERTY AND PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT THAT VERY OFTEN, I DON'T THINK, ANYMORE. WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT AS MUCH. HOW MUCH STRESS CAN AFFECT A PERSON AND WHEN YOU'RE CONSTANTLY IN SURVIVAL MODE. WHEN YOU'RE SITTING UP AT NIGHT, SUDDENLY WONDERING, OH, MY GOODNESS, AM I GOING HAVE ENOUGH TO PAY THE ELECTRIC BILL AND IT'S THE MIDDLE OF WINTER AND WHAT AM I GOING TO DO BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN JUST GO GET MONEY FROM SOMEWHERE AND IN MY CASE, I COULDN'T BORROW MONEY FROM PEOPLE. I COULDN'T ASK MY FAMILY FOR MONEY EVEN IF IT WAS TEN BUCKS. >> THE BOOK IS ABOUT SO MANY THINGS. HONESTLY, WE CAN JUST TALK FOR HOURS ABOUT ALL THE THREADS THAT YOU TIED TOGETHER. YOU WERE IN A RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE. COULD YOU JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT OF THE RELATIONSHIP WAS AND WHAT THE -- WHAT RESULTED AFTER YOU LEFT? LIKE, WHAT HAPPENED AFTER YOU LEFT IT? >> THE THING THAT CAUGHT ME THE MOST OFF GUARD WAS STANDING IN COURT AND THE JUDGE WAS GOING TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO GRANT MY NO-CONTACT ORDER OR ORDER OF PROTECTION, AND HE LOOKED AT MY STATEMENT WHICH INCLUDED ALL OF THE THREATS, YOU KNOW, THE PUNCHING OUT AND THE GLASS AND THE DOOR. IT INCLUDED A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DIDN'T PUT IN THE BOOK AND HE SAID A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD NOT FEEL THREATENED AND SO I WAS CALLED UNREASONABLE IN COURT AND THEN HE WENT ON TO CALL MY ABUSER THE MORE STABLE PARENT BECAUSE HE HAD THE FULL-TIME JOB AND HE HAD THE HOUSE THAT I HAD JUST LEFT AND HE HAD THE ABILITY TO TAKE CARE OF MY KID, AND I WAS HOMELESS AND DIDN'T HAVE A JOB. HADN'T HAD A JOB IN A YEAR BECAUSE I WAS RAISING MY BABY SO SUDDENLY IT WAS LIKE I WAS THE BAD PERSON FOR REMOVING MY CHILD FROM A DANGEROUS SITUATION. THAT STUCK WITH ME FOR A LONG TIME. I MEAN, EVEN ON I DIDN'T FOCUS EMOTIONAL ABUSE BECAUSE MY KID WAS GOING TO READ IT AND I DIDN'T THINK HE DESERVED SPACE ON THE PAGE, BUT SINCE THE SERIES HAS COME OUT AND THAT WAS SUCH A FOCUS OF THE SERIES I'VE BEEN FOCUSING ON THAT A LOT MORE MP. >> I DO EVERYTHING FOR YOU. >> IT'S BEEN 15 YEARS AND I DON'T REALLY THINK ABOUT HIM AT ALL, BUT SINCE I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT A LOT AND THE ABUSE THAT I EXPERIENCED, A LOT HAS COME UP FOR ME JUST IN HOW IT MAKES ME FEEL AND JUST KIND OF WATCHING MY BODY KIND OF REMEMBER A LOT OF WHAT HAPPENED. >> ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND THAT WAS SO PROFOUND, FRANKLY, ABOUT IT IS THAT THIS IS SO -- I THINK THAT IT'S SO PROFOUND THAT YOU'RE DOING THE VERY THING THAT SOCIETY IS TELLING YOU TO DO WHICH IS TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILD AND THEN AS A CONSEQUENCE OF TAKING CARE OF YOUR CHILD YOU ARE TOLD THAT YOU ARE WORTHLESS OR NOT STABLE. SO WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO? >> I HEARD ALL THINGS. I HEARD THAT I SHOULD HAVE STAYED TO MAKE IT WORK BECAUSE IT'S BETTER FOR KIDS TO HAVE TWO PARENTS AROUND. OF COURSE, THAT I SHOULDN'T HAVE CHOSEN THAT PERSON. I SHOULDN'T HAVE CHOSEN AN ABUSIVE PERSON IN THE FIRST PLACE. LIKE I KNEW THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO THAT, AND SO -- IT WAS ALWAYS MY FAULT. NO ONE EVER SAID, MAN, THAT GUY WAS A REALLY BAD GUY. I'M SORRY. IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT I DID TO BRING IT ON MYSELF. >> THE BOOK IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS ON THE ONE HAND AND HOW FRAUGHT RELATIONSHIPS, ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS COULD JUST BRING A PERSON DOWN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY REALLY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE AT THE BOTTOM, AND IT'S ALSO ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE AT THEIR LOWEST AND WHY THEY DON'T. SO LET'S JUST START WITH CHILD CARE. A LOT OF THE JOBS THAT YOU BEING GET. WHY DIDN'T THE CHILD CARE GRANTS WORK FOR YOU? >> A LOT OF THE DID I CARES DON'T ACCEPT THEM BECAUSE THE GRANT ONLY PAYS -- I'M NOT SURE WHAT EXACTLY IT IS, BUT SOMETHING LIKE 80% OF THE TOTAL BILL, AND SO A LOT OF TIMES I WOULD EITHER BE LEFT WITH A BIG CO-PAY AND THEY WOULDN'T ACCEPT THE GRANT, BUT THE THING THAT THEY DO IS YOU HAVE TO ALREADY BE ESTABLISHED AT A JOB IN ORDER TO GET THE GRANT, AND SO HOW I GOT AROUND THAT WAS I STARTED LANDSCAPING FOR A FRIEND OF MINE, AND TRADED OFF. I TOOK THE MORNINGS AND MY FRIEND TOOK THE AFTERNOONS OR ANOTHER SINGLE MOM IN TOWN AND SO DID I THAT FOR TWO OR THREE WEEKS AND WAS ABLE TO SHOW AND HAVE SOME KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT I WAS ACTUALLY WORKING AND THAT WAS WHEN THEY GAVE ME A PART-TIME VOUCHER FOR CHILD CARE. THAT WAS ONLY IN THE AFTERNOONS, AND DIDN'T COVER SCHOOL HOURS THAT I WAS PLANNING TO DO BECAUSE, OF COURSE, THAT ISN'T COVERED AND IT WAS MY BIGGEST HEADACHE, ALSO MY BIGGEST FEAR OF LOSING BECAUSE IF I SUDDENLY DIDN'T HAVE CHILD CARE THEN I COULDN'T WORK AND WE FACED NOT HAVING A HOME VERY FAST. AND THEN WHAT ABOUT FOOD STAMPS? >> YEAH. SO THE THING ABOUT FOOD STAMPS IS IF YOU GET EVEN A 25 CENT AN HOUR RAISE THAT COULD MEAN THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLY LOSE YOUR FOOD STAMPS BECAUSE YOU HAVE GONE OVER THE LIMIT FOR INCOME OR GETTING THAT RAISE COULD MEAN YOU LOSE $150 A MONTH IN YOUR FOOD STAMP AMOUNT, AND THE WAY THAT THEY DO THE MEANS TESTING, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED -- MOST STATES YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE 2500 OR $3,000 IN ASSETS AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR CAR SOMETIMES AND THE WAY THAT THEY GO ABOUT ASKING QUESTIONS ON THE FORMS IS -- THEY ASKED ME IF I HAD A BURIAL PLOT SOMEWHERE OR HOW MANY ITEMS IN MY HOUSE WERE WORTH MORE THAN $500 AND IT'S JUST REALLY DEMEANING AND DEGRADING JUST RIGHT OFF THE BAT, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT YOU'RE WORKING ALL THE TIME. >> TALKING ABOUT FOOD STAMPS, THERE ARE SOME SCENES IN THE BOOK THAT REALLY ARE JUST SICKENING WHERE PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE PAYING WITH FOOD STAMPS PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY CAN HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE BUYING. >> YEAH. THERE'S ONE SCENE IN THE BOOK WHERE I AM USING WIC CHECKS AND IT'S CALLED A WOMEN INFANTS AND CHILDREN PROGRAM. YOU GET A LOT OF MILK AND CHEESE AND SOME PEANUT BUTTER AND GRAPE JUICE AND SOME CEREAL. IT'S NOT MUCH, BUT IT REALLY HELPS, AND I HAD A VOUCHER THAT WAS FOR ORGANIC MILK AND THEY HADN'T -- THEY HAD UPDATED THEIR SYSTEM IN THE CASH REGISTER, BUT IT WASN'T THE END OF THE MONTH YET AND SO I DECIDED TO REALLY FIGHT FOR THIS ORGANIC MILK THAT I HAD A COUPON FOR. THE MANAGER HAD TO GET INVOLVED. IT WAS KIND OF A SCENE, AND AS I WAS LEAVING, AS I WAS PULLING MY CART OUT OF THE AISLE OR THE CASHIER STATION THE MAN BEHIND ME IN LINE SAID "YOU'RE WELCOME." IT ALWAYS SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE THAT THE PERSON IN LINE BEHIND ME FELT LIKE THEY WERE PERSONALLY BUYING MY GROCERIES WITH THEIR TAX MONEY WHEN REALLY, THE FOOD STAMP BUDGET IS SOMETHING LIKE 1.5% OF THE NATIONAL BUDGET. >> AND THEN YOU TALK ABOUT JUST THE WAY IT MAKES YOU FEEL, AND THAT KIND OF TIES INTO THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU TIE IN THE BOOK AND THE RELATIONSHIPS AND FEELING SO SORT OF BEATEN DOWN THAT YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE, IN A WAY. WHY IS THAT? >> FIRST, AMERICA IS VERY WORK FOCUSED, AND WE ARE ESPECIALLY WORK FOCUSED ON THE PEOPLE THAT WE TELL THEM, PULL YOURSELF UP BY THE BOOTSTRAPS AND TELL THEM IF YOU WORK HARD ENOUGH THEN YOU WILL HAVE SOME SUCCESS IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT THE OTHER HAND OF THAT IS IF THEY'RE NOT HAVING SOME SUCCESS THEN THEY'RE JUST NOT WORKING HARD ENOUGH AND WE PUT SO MUCH OF OUR DIGNITY AS HUMAN BEINGS IN THE WORK THAT WE DO, AND I REALLY FELT LIKE I ONLY HAD WORTH OR VALUE WHEN I WAS WORKING, AND THE TYPE OF JOBS THAT I CAN FIND DIDN'T PAY ME ENOUGH TO LIVE, BUT I WAS TOLD YOU'RE JUST NOT DOING ENOUGH. YOU JUST NEED TO WORK HARDER, AND IT WAS JUST SUCH A BACKWARDS STATEMENT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T REALIZE THAT, NO, I WASN'T GETTING PAID ENOUGH. I DIDN'T HAVE ANY BENEFITS AT ALL. I COULDN'T EVEN CALL IN SICK MOST DAYS. >> IN FACT, YOU WRITE ABOUT THAT, YOU WRITE ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD PUT AN AD OUT EVERY NOW AND AGAIN, I'M NA PROFESSIONAL CLEANER AND NOT MAKING ENOUGH TO MAKE ENDS MEET. ON ONE HAND, PEOPLE CAN BE SO MEAN AND SO TERRIBLE AND ON THE OTHER HAND YOU WRITE ABOUT THAT, TOO, HOW SOME PEOPLE WOULD STEP UP AND REACH OUT. >> YEAH. THE ONE THAT I THINK YOU'RE THINKING OF IS I DID A MOVEOUT CLEAN AND SHE JUST HANDED ME A HUNDRED BUCKS IN CASH AND IT WAS THE MOST MONEY THAT I'D SEEN IN CASH IN SO LONG, AND IMMEDIATELY TURNED TO MY KID AND ASKED THEM IF THEY WANTED A HAPPY MEAL WHICH WAS A HUGE TREAT. IT WAS -- IT WAS REALLY INCREDIBLE. I THINK NOT ONLY TO HAVE THOSE MOMENTS WHERE I FELT LIKE I WAS ACTUALLY DOING IT, AND I WAS DOING IT ON MY OWN AND I WAS, YOU KNOW, I'M DOING IT. I CAN PAY MY BILLS THIS MONTH, AND IT WAS ALSO JUST THAT SOMEONE TREATED ME LIKE A HUMAN BEING AND SAW ME AS A HUMAN BEING AND WEREN'T UPSET THAT I HAD TO BRING MY KID TO THE WALKTHROUGH AND HAD SOME COMPASSION AND EMPATHY AND THAT WAS REALLY RARE. >> WE'RE IN A SOCIETY NOW WHERE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE MICROAGGRESSIONS AT WORK AND TALK ABOUT EMOTIONAL ABUSE THAT PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE AND TALK ABOUT WORK -- TOXIC WORKPLACES, BUT I WONDER WHY IT IS WHEN IT COMES TO SOMEBODY THAT IS OF LOW INCOME AND DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF MEANS TO SORT OF -- YOU CAN'T QUIT, YOU CAN'T LEAVE THAT THERE DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE ARE FORMS OF HARM THAT DON'T LEAVE BRUISES. >> EVEN THOUGH LOW-WAGE WORKERS AND ESPECIALLY DOMESTIC WORKERS ARE THE FOUNDATION OF EVERY OTHER JOB IN THIS COUNTRY, THEY'RE ALSO THE JOBS THAT NOBODY ELSE WANTS TO DO, AND SO I THINK THAT'S A LOT OF THE REASON WHY GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS KEEP PEOPLE IN POVERTY IS TO KEEP THAT, YOU KNOW, LEVEL OF ECONOMY RUNNING SUCCESSFULLY AND IT'S EASIER TO ASSUME THAT THAT POPULATION -- I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF RACISM WITH GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS AND POVERTY, AND I THINK THAT COMES INTO PLAY A LOT. MY EXPERIENCE IS A VERY PRIVILEGED ONE, AND I, YOU KNOW, I WAS DOING THE JOBS THAT I WAS DOING AND EXPERIENCING THAT LEVEL OF VIOLENCE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I WAS A WHITE PERSON EXPERIENCING THAT AND YOU KNOW, BLACK AND BROWN WOMENOR WOMEN OF COLOR OR IMMIGRANTS HAVE A MUCH WORSE EXPERIENCE THAN I DID, AND I THINK FOR SOME POLITICIANS, THAT'S DONE WITH PURPOSE. >> WHAT DO YOU HOPE YOUR STORY DOES YOU IN THAT IT'S IN THE WORLD IN SO MANY WAYS? >> WELL, I MEAN, BESIDES THE, LIKE, HELPING THE ONE PERSON NOT FEEL ALONE, I HAVE ALWAYS HOPED THAT THE STORY WOULD OPEN DOORS FOR OTHER STORIES ESPECIALLY ONE MORE MARGINALIZED THAN MINE AND ANGRY BECAUSE IT'S A WHIT PERSON TELLING THE STORY AND NOT THE MAJORITY OF DOMESTIC WORKERS ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR, AND I'M ACTUALLY APPRECIATING THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW ANGRY THAT MAKES THEM BECAUSE NORMALLY, NOBODY IS REALLY ALLOWED TO BE ANGRY IF YOU'RE POOR OR A VERY MARGINALIZED PERSON IN THE SOCIETY. SO I JUST -- I REALLY LIKE SEEING ALL OF THE EMOTIONS THAT ARE COMING OUT AND ALL OF THE DISCUSSIONS. A LOT OF SURVIVORS ARE TALKING ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES WHEN BEFORE THAT WAS TOTALLY TABOO. YOU NEVER TALKED ABOUT THAT FOR FEAR THAT YOUR ABUSER WOULD SEE IT AND YOU'D HAVE SOME RETALIATION. D IT SEEMS THAT PEOPLE ARE MORE BRAVE TO TALK ABOUT THEIR LIVES AND THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT I WANTED OR EXPECTED GOING INTO THIS, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I SEE, AND IT'S ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO ME. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME. THIS IS A REALLY GOOD CONVERSATION.