After Action

-In the Native American culture, the warrior tradition often emphasizes courage, bravery, protecting the community, and demonstrating strength, with the concept of a warrior extending beyond just combat.

-Warriors are more than just going off fighting wars.

They're there to keep the peace.

They're there to protect the people, to help those that can't defend themselves.

-I guess you could say, yeah, I'm a veteran, but with a warrior status.

And that meant more to me.

Today I get to announce the first all-female Native American color guard.

Man, all the drums were going, the war cries.

The fact that we were in Obama's inauguration was just amazing.

-What do you think is one of the biggest misconceptions about being a Native American?

-People don't know some of the derogatory stuff they heap on Indians without even thinking about it.

-Mm-hmm.

-Or even if we tell them, they still do it, 'cause it's like... -If they still do it after you tell them, then they're wrong.

-"Everybody else is doing it."

And it's all about socialization, too.

"Well, it was okay where I was at."

We're not where you're at.

We're all in the military.

So we're all different, so let's keep... I said, "How would you like it if I called you paleface?

Would you like it?"

-They think that you can sense the enemy, that you have this... "They're out there.

I know they're over there in that bush."

-We know how to get from point A to point B without a map or a compass.

We're supposed to just be some sort of a superhuman, I guess.

I don't know what it is.

-There's a lot of diversity within the military, and it allows us to get out there and represent our people, and then we can bring it back to our people, what we saw and what we learned.

Regardless of your nationality, we're all veterans.

-Mm-hmm.

-As veterans, we belong to this veteran tribe, if you will.

You know, you got the Air Force tribe, the Army tribe, the Navy.

We're tribal.

And sometimes we forget that.

During World War I, because of our participation, we got U.S.

citizenship.

So, Native Americans never had U.S.

citizenship until 1924.

-I believe that everybody in this country should be born with the same rights.

Indians are people, too.

They love their kids, their mothers and all that, just like anybody else does.

-Hi, I'm Stacy Pearsall, retired Air Force combat photographer.

And today I'm sitting down with Chuck Van Boers, Mitchelene Big Man, and Harold Hatcher, three veterans who uphold the warrior tradition after action.

- There will be light There is a road Marching on Coming home [ Birds chirping ] Major funding for After Action is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina, the proud partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio, and by America's Vet Dogs.

-Chuck, Mitchelene, Buster, thank you for coming to LowCountry Acres to talk about your stories.

I like to start every episode with a little bit of backstory.

And I want to know a little bit about why you chose your branch of service, where you're from originally.

Let's start with you -- with you, Chuck.

Where are you from?

-Fresno, California, is where I was born.

But our tribal affiliation -- I'm Lipan Apache -- we're out of Texas.

Uh, my mom was a WAC, and she eventually became a soldier, and she was actually my recruiter and put me in the Army.

But I come from a long line of people from the Army and as Apache scouts, but we also had people in our family that served in the Navy and the Marines and the Air Force.

In fact, my nephew is in the Air Force right now.

-Well, that's cool.

Can you talk to me a little bit about... You talk about Apache -- Can you break this down for me, for somebody who's unfamiliar with these kind of terms?

-Apache is a nation, if you will.

It's actually a Zuni word which means "enemy."

We call ourselves Nnd or Ndee or Tinde, which means "the people."

But within the Apache nation, you have the Mescalero, the San Carlos, the Jicarilla, the Jumano.

So, I'm Lipan, and that's who I come from.

And then within that, we have our own little bands as well.

So, if you think of it like a European nation, just the Apache would be like maybe Germany.

And then we have little states.

And those would be like the Lipan, the Jicarilla, the Jumano, the Chiricahua.

-Okay.

Very cool.

And so, your mom was a WAC and she recruited you?

-Yes.

She did.

One day she came home, in fact, she said, "I'm no longer a WAC.

I'm a soldier.

And I was like, "What does that mean, Mom?"

Same uniform, same rank.

She's like, "We've now been integrated into the regular Army.

The Women's Army Corps is no more."

And didn't really see a change, but now she was a soldier.

-Nice.

And what was your job in the Army?

-Combat camera.

-Hey, that sounds familiar.

-[ Laughs ] -Very cool.

How long were you in the Army?

-26 years.

-And are you a mentor back amongst your people or...?

-Yes, I am, actually.

I'm our tribal war chief.

That was an honor bestowed upon me during my last tour in Iraq, when I came home.

Caught me off guard.

I thought someone else was more deserving, and we hadn't had a war chief in more than 80 years at that time.

Our last war chief died -- I think it was like 1918, 1917, something like that.

So, I received that title in 2007, I think it was.

So, but I'm involved with veteran organizations as well, and Native veteran organizations in Southern California, and work with them.

We do funerals and powwows and things like that.

-Retired Army veteran and Lipan Apache Nation member Chuck Van Boers enlisted as a photographer and first saw action during Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada.

During his service, Chuck met other Native service members and they bonded over their shared traditions.

He carried his family's military eagle feathers with him during the Battle of Fallujah, and he even participated in a powwow while in Iraq.

Today, Chuck is still active with tribal traditions and veteran organizations.

Mitchelene?

-Yeah.

My name is Mitchelene Big Man.

I'm originally from Montana.

I'm Apsalooke, also known as the Crow Nation.

And I've been asked, is there a difference between nation and tribe?

I said, well, tribe, I was told, was from the white point of view.

Natives, we're considered a nation depending on where you came from.

So I always say Apsalooke nation.

When I joined the military, I lived on and off the reservation.

And then, I didn't... I wasn't too, um... My college studies, I wasn't too balanced with them.

So, after I lost my funding -- okay, what am I going to do now?

And we moved back to the reservation.

And there on our reservation, there's like 90% unemployment because there's no opportunities.

Substance abuse, domestic violence.

And I was in a bad relationship.

So I thought, "I got to get out of here."

And I caught a ride to Billings, and I went straight to the recruiter station, and I was going to join the Marines first, because that's what I wanted to do.

And I took the test, and the recruiter was like, "Well, when do you want to leave?"

And I was like, "Is tomorrow too soon?"

[ Laughter ] So, he's like, "No, it's going to be about a year."

He was looking at his calendar.

I said, "I can't wait a year."

And he kind of got sarcastic.

He goes, "Well, if you want to leave now, join the Army."

I'm like, okay.

So I went right next door.

The recruiter was doing some paperwork.

He didn't see me sitting in front of him.

So I'm just waiting until he looked up, and then he just kind of like... And I said, "How soon can you get me out of here?"

And, um... Three days later, I raised my right hand and I considered, okay, now I'm -- I'm in the Army.

I didn't want to make it a career.

I thought I'm going to get my G.I.

Bill and go back to college and finish my degree.

And then I ended up making it a career.

I was a diesel mechanic in the military.

I mostly work on track vehicles, which is like your big M1s, Bradleys, the howitzers.

So, that's what I worked on.

I was usually on contact teams or MST teams.

I'd be the only female in the battalion because they thought Big Man was a guy and a mechanic, and little old me come up in there, and they're looking at -- And they were, like, disappointed.

I could see the tension.

They didn't want me there.

First of all, I'm, like, a female, minority, and then found out I was Native American.

They thought I was Hispanic.

I don't take offense to that, but I'm like, for some reason you all seem to forget about, you know, Native Americans.

And being in a combat arms unit, you, as a woman, you have to prove yourself three times harder, just to get -- just to show them the worth of just being just a soldier.

Anything beyond that, I mean, you have to work extra hard.

I retired out of Fort Carson in 2009, and I still was working for the Army.

And matter of fact, I ended up being a federal security guard in a small Army installation, and I was back in full battle rattle, they say.

And then after that, I was working there for... I think I worked for the Army for 10 years.

And then I changed over to Department of Defense, and I worked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

-Mitchelene Big Man was raised on and off the Montana Crow Reservation, where she struggled with low employment opportunities before enlisting in the Army as a diesel mechanic.

During her service, she often volunteered for the toughest assignments and deployments, including Iraq twice.

She was often subjected to racism and gender discrimination, which inspired her to create the Native American Women Warriors, a support group for fellow female veterans of Native American identity.

How about you, Buster?

What's your origin story?

-Well, I grew up in a place where it was either white or Black.

Uh... We went to white schools, which, we were not welcomed there, basically.

They, since they integrated the schools, the white... Back in the old days, they had a Black water fountain and a white water fountain and Black bathrooms and white bathrooms.

But when they integrated, if you went to a white school, they didn't have but one water fountain in it, for example.

And we drank... Well, if I drank from the white water fountain, I had a problem, and people would want to fight me for that.

So I learned to basically stand up for myself at an early age.

A lot of it involved fighting.

So I quit school in the ninth grade and I went to Charlotte, North Carolina, to stay with my sister and her husband, who were having trouble paying their bills, and they needed some extra help earning.

And with a ninth-grade education, you kind of had to work at a laborer kind of deal.

My brother was in Vietnam in the Army, and I passed an Army recruiter's office.

I said, "Hell, I'm gonna join the Army."

I didn't know it was a good idea or a bad idea.

So I asked him, "Is it a good idea for me to join the Army?"

And I said, "I have no education, I got nothing.

I'm not smart or any of that stuff."

So, he said, "Well, I've been in there for several years and it's been good for me."

So I signed on the dotted line and went in.

And I went -- again, I went in with a ninth-grade education.

I finished high school in Vietnam by correspondence, and I got a college degree while I was stationed at Fort Bragg, mostly at night.

But every now and then, I would get to go to Army time.

They would let me go for a college class or something on their time.

And I went to infantry training at Fort Polk, went to jump school at Fort Benning, and straight to Vietnam.

And I got shot up in Vietnam and got sent back.

And I couldn't do the infantry stuff anymore, so they cross-trained me into maintenance.

And I retired as a warrant officer.

I got my education and stuff there at Fort Bragg.

I got out with a degree, and basically the best choice I ever made in my life was joining the Army.

-Army veteran Harold "Buster" Hatcher is the chief of the Waccamaw Indian tribe in South Carolina.

Harold joined the Army at the age of 18 and remained in the military for the following 20 years.

During his military career, he served over 11 years with the 82nd Airborne Division, including combat in Vietnam.

Among his over 21 medals, he was awarded the Purple Heart, a Bronze Star with valor, and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry.

Well, you said there's a difference between tribe and nation.

What classification is... Yours is state recognized.

Can you talk to me a little bit about... Is it a tribe or a nation or what classification is it?

-Well, a nation is basically a language group.

-Okay.

-Like Lakota.

People call it -- the Lakota is the nation.

A lot of people call it Siouan.

It's the language.

I don't like the word Siouan, because Siouan is a French corruption of the Dutch word, or the Dutch corruption of a French word for "snake."

Because we didn't fight the way the white folks did.

So, Lakota I think would be the nation.

The Waccamaws are the tribe.

Tribes are -- in a lot of cases, it amounts to a bunch of tribes make a nation.

-Yeah, that's kind of like what I was saying... -Yeah.

-...with the Lipan, Chiricahua, Jicarilla.

Those are all Apache.

So, like, when I meet non-Natives, they'll ask me what I am, and I'm like, "Oh, I'm Apache."

But if I tell them I'm Lipan, they don't understand.

-Yeah.

-But if I'm around other Apaches, "Oh, I'm Lipan," and they'll be like, "Oh, I'm White Mountain, or, "I'm Mescalero."

And it's well-known -- Natives per capita is the largest serving group, even though we're the smallest group.

We don't even make up 1% of the military.

But yet we're the largest.

And part of that goes tied to our culture.

And that cultural belief is we're warriors.

Well, the only way we can be warriors in the modern day is by joining the military.

And then for a lot of folks, getting off the reservation or getting out of the poorer communities, because most of your tribes are located in poor communities.

But over the years, things have changed, as, um... It was during the '70s when we got more self-determination to govern our own nations.

Because we're a sovereign nation within the United States.

A lot of people don't realize that.

So they started getting casinos.

And with the casinos, some of the warrior traditions are kind of dying out a little bit because the younger kids are like, "Why am I joining?"

But some of those traditions are still around, and people join because of a lot of that.

They want to uphold those family traditions.

Most -- in most families, their aunties, their uncles, their grandparents were in World War I, World War II.

During World War I, because of our participation in that, when 1924 rolled around, we got U.S.

citizenship.

So, Native Americans never had U.S.

citizenship until 1924.

-My mother was born in 1913.

Before 1924, as he suggested, they could not own land.

They could not vote.

They couldn't... They couldn't be citizens.

So, she was a teenager when all that was going on.

And people don't really understand what they... You know, I believe that everybody in this country should be born with the same rights, but we don't get to do that.

Somehow they have divided Indians -- state recognized, federally recognized, not recognized.

And you have to find what niche you can get into, because Indians are people, too.

You know, they have -- they love their kids, their mothers and all that, just like anybody else does.

But the freedom of religion, for example, is not... You do not inherit that as an Indian like you would if you were white.

And I say that because in some of our culture, we need the use of an eagle's feather to bury our dead.

And only federal Indians can have an eagle's feather.

So, that puts the federal government in charge of who goes to heaven, and I think that kind of is wrong.

He and I were talking about that a little bit today.

There's things that seem to be universal amongst Native people.

The way we think, the way we act, the way we feel.

And although you might not be a federal Indian, you still got that Native drive or Native blood in you that makes you want to, uh... to be accepted, I guess, by other people.

We didn't fit into it like everybody else.

We lived in Black neighborhoods, we went to white schools, that kind of stuff.

And our attitudes... I don't know where it comes from.

I was telling him earlier, he and I think quite a bit alike, and I think it's a universal thing.

I think it goes across Native communities, period.

-Do you think it's related to generational trauma that goes back to colonialism?

How do you... Or where does this stem from?

-I do believe historical trauma is there as well.

But like, when I was in service... A little bit different skin colors.

So when I was in the Army -- "You're really Native?"

"Yeah."

Every time I fill out my forms -- "Native American, Native American."

So, they didn't believe it until I pulled out my tribal card, and they were like, "Oh, dang, you really are Native."

And then they would start playing into the stereotypes.

What is a Native?

One of the most famous Natives, Iron Eagle Cody, back in the '70s.

He was in the -- had the tear coming down when the trash got thrown on him.

He was in the canoe, and the trash was in the river, and the tear would come down.

Most famous Indian.

That's what an Indian looks like.

-Hm.

-He's Italian.

Full-blooded Italian who emigrated to the United States.

So, that's what an Indian looks like.

We're supposed to look like Italians.

Or we look Hispanic.

-Mm-hmm.

-But Native Americans range from being very white to being very dark.

And you got to look at the history across the board.

And like Chief Ross, the Principal Chief that led his people on the Trail of Tears -- most famous thing they teach in high school -- was only a quarter Cherokee.

His children that were on that trail were only 1/16.

So, this is just history across the board generationally and how we're stereotyped.

So, what can you pass for?

Are you mulatto?

Because, like, my mom was listed as Hispanic.

Some of my relatives were listed as mulatto.

I was listed as white because my dad's Dutch and I could pass.

Some people are listed as, like I said, Hispanic.

So, where do you fit in that?

Um... We hear about the most famous guy -- I'll use Pappy Boyington from "Baa Baa Black Sheep."

Some people may remember him.

He was Italian, everybody thought.

No, he's actually Brule Sioux.

He received the Medal of Honor.

So, again, where do we fit in these blocks?

Who are we?

Where do we fit into the stereotypes?

But where is the real Native?

And then that trauma plays in there.

Do I got to play this part?

Or do I play who I am and who we really are?

-You know, there was 29 Medal of Honor winners in the Native American community.

29.

By percentage, per capita, that's a heavy amount of people with Medals of Honor in the Native community.

And as he said, you know, we serve per capita more in the military than any other ethnic group.

But he says -- He's got his reasons why he thinks that happens.

I don't know why it happens, but I know it is true.

-Where I was going with that, when we were talking about that earlier, is this is our home.

It's not about a flag.

This is our home.

We're gonna defend our home.

We have nowhere else to go.

This is our home.

This is where our people are from.

And it also gives us that warrior culture, like I was talking about.

The bottom line, why we serve?

It's our home.

And it's also our traditions.

And it's not about necessarily going off to war.

It's about keeping peace.

It's about standing up for the little guy or the people that can't defend themselves.

So, it's a larger community, just not in our community, but across the United States.

And then that carries over.

-I think that you're right about that, but I also think it's a drive to be accepted somehow, you know, to be part of the whole, because a lot of us don't feel like we are.

-Yeah.

-Especially if you're born and live in a society that's off reservation, so to speak.

You're not accepted anywhere hardly.

-And it's the U.S.

government that determines who's Indian, who isn't.

And now they're coming along on the new lines of, "How do you identify?"

Your culture's been here forever.

And the government has worked systematically, over generations, if you want to call it generational trauma.

The Chinook Indians -- we know about the Chinook helicopter.

The Chinook Indians -- the government came up with a thing called self-determination.

So your tribe is now self-determined.

What does that mean?

It affects grants.

It affects your ability to put a casino, if you will.

It also takes your sovereignty away.

You're no longer a sovereign nation.

But you're still recognized as a sovereign nation.

So now you have the Chinook Indians that are still a sovereign nation, but they're not federally recognized.

So they don't get those additional fundings that they could get.

And it was because of the Self-Determination Act.

Another act that came out was Relocation.

"Hey, Stacy, I got a deal for you.

Let's sign your ranch away so you're not gonna be raising horses anymore.

And we're gonna send you out to California and get you an education and give you a new house.

You get to keep it -- new house."

And then you get out to California, and you're expecting this new education so you don't have to raise horses anymore, but now you're gonna go work for Mitchelene, who raises horses.

And that was some of the things that happened during Relocation.

My tribe was part of Relocation.

We had our own ranches, farms, and we got sent out to California to go work for the farmers now and pick their fruits.

So, kind of that different level.

Again, it's a form of trauma that affected our families.

-Like you said, we have that divide and conquer.

So, they plant.

I want to say they plant it, in our reservations and amongst our people, 'cause I know I didn't fit in anywhere because I was born in off the reservation, but I lived on and off the reservation.

I wasn't accepted by my people because I didn't know the traditions and the language.

And then I definitely wasn't accepted in the all-white schools because they had a tendency to just -- bully, I guess you could say.

-Oh, yeah.

So, I dealt with that for a long time.

And growing up, I grew up bitter, really bitter.

And I was also -- I attended the boarding schools.

When we attended, it wasn't as -- as bad as when they first started doing that.

I still have that question, you know?

When they took the kids and put them in the boarding schools, I'm like, "Where do you have that right to do that?"

And we're the only ones that had to deal with that.

They stripped the kids from the families, sent them off to a boarding school, and they were abused in any kind of way you could think of.

And a lot of them never made it home.

-Yep, you couldn't speak your language, couldn't practice your religion.

-Nope.

-Couldn't do any of that.

-Can you guys talk to me -- Can you break it down for people who don't know what exactly you're talking about?

What are you talking about?

-They called them the industrial schools.

And the favorite saying during that timeframe was, "Kill the savage, save the man."

-Mm-hmm.

-And that was the concept.

So, what would happen is they would come onto the reservation, take the children, and they would be put in these industrial schools.

And they were throughout the United States.

But when the children came back from the boarding schools, they now had this different level of education.

They lost a little -- They didn't lost a little.

They lost a lot... -Mm-hmm.

-...of their lives and their culture.

So now they come back to these families on the reservation.

And these families are like, "Who is this?"

So they were ostracized in a lot of cases from their own families.

Some weren't, but a lot of them were.

So now they're in between worlds.

"Do I stay on the rez, or do I go out into the urban communities and try to make a way for myself?"

And they had to find something to do.

And that right there is another trauma, if you if you want to look at historical trauma.

We're creating these things.

And so how do we get past that?

-'Cause a lot of tribes already had their own government prior to, I say, the European invasion.

Like, even the Cherokee -- they had their own language and how to write it and they taught their kids.

But like I say, with where their mindset -- And I think with a lot of the residential schools, it had to do a lot with religion.

You had some that were Catholic.

They thought they could make our lives better by bringing religion.

'Cause when I attended boarding school, it was run by Catholics.

And they were very strict.

And the thing of it is, what was hard for me to deal with, is they were so abusive to us, but had the audacity to sit there and say, "God is love."

And I'm like, "If this is how God is, I don't want to know this whoever it is because of the fact that we have to go through this."

And I'm probably like the fifth generation that had to deal with it.

And I'm like -- And then being urban and then going back to the reservation, I was considered an apple Indian.

-They would take these kids in.

They would shave them down.

They would make them wear white folks clothes.

They wouldn't let them speak their language.

They tried to make them into Christians.

The point, I think, that's important here is, why would Indians specifically have to deal with this?

But why would we join the army?

And that's a good question.

I don't know.

But the only thing I can think of is because you don't fit with this, you don't fit with that, you don't fit with that, but the damn army -- you'll be accepted there.

-Mm-hmm.

And you can fight for whatever you believe in.

You know, that's the only thing I can think of that would cause you to be -- -Well, even in the military, I struggled when I joined.

-Yeah.

-How so?

-Because when I joined the military -- Like I say, we're not mainstream America.

We're a classification.

We're a political classification.

And when I joined the military and they first seen my last name, they couldn't figure out, "Where are you from?"

I'm like, "Um, I'm from Montana, but this is our land."

And then you get the criticism.

Still going through the bullying when I was in the military.

But I just learned to -- What I liked about the military is it taught you to have that tough skin.

And I'm one of those -- I was always kind of quiet, but then I learned to be loud.

I'm like -- I defend.

I defend with my words.

And there's a lot of times they talked talk down to me, and I'm like, "First of all, don't talk down to me.

And second of all, like I say, if you want to see tomorrow."

-[ Laughs ] -Yep.

Yep.

-So, it was -- I ended up -- I did a lot of fighting, but it was mostly with words.

And it seemed like, "Man, this is never ending."

You know, from when I grew up, I was doing all of that.

You know, I'm either, you know, trying to represent myself when I'm on the reservation, but they didn't accept me, and then I'm off the reservation and they definitely didn't like me or didn't accept me.

I joined the military, and I'm thinking, "Okay, now I'm doing something good."

And then they don't accept me because of the fact that I'm a woman... -Yeah.

-...I'm a minority, and then I'm Native American.

I have a cousin that was -- She was in the military.

She's not enrolled.

But she looks white.

She made it all the way to command sergeant major, and I had to explain to her -- I said, "They're gonna treat you different than they're gonna treat me.

They don't know that you're Native unless you tell them.

But the thing of it is, when it comes to promotions, and it's me and you, they're gonna give it to you, give you more options than they're gonna give me."

You know, so I -- It's just constant, even today.

And you're just like, "When does it end?"

There's always another thing to sit there and throw on us to where we got to fight and prove ourselves.

-Can you give me an example or two of some of the things that you -- that you faced, maybe routinely, that was more like a routine aggravation?

-Mm.

I remember when I was in Germany, my first duty, when I first was in Germany -- I remember -- I'll never forget his name, Sergeant Antrevaris.

We're sitting at the bus stop, and he started speaking Spanish to me.

And I'm like, "I'm sorry.

Are you speaking to me?"

And he goes, "Um, yeah."

And he started speaking -- I said, "I don't speak Spanish."

"Why don't you speak Spanish?"

"The name doesn't give it away?

I'm Native American."

"Oh, you all still exist?

The Indians still exist?"

I'm like, uh, "Really?"

-Yep.

-And to this day, it's like, "Yeah, we're still here.

You didn't -- You tried to wipe us out in any way, shape, or form.

You planted --" Like, the alcohol was a controlling mechanism.

And then the drugs was a controlling mechanism.

Then sending us to the boarding schools was a controlling mechanism.

But we're the only ones that have to deal with it.

-Mm.

Talk to me a little bit about your reception amongst fellow service members when you joined.

I mean, it's a melting pot in the military.

I know, Mitchelene, you kind of touched on a mis-identity, a lot of people thinking that you're Latina.

-Mm-hmm.

-What about you guys?

I mean, you said you're a bit light-skinned, so you could -- -I had to prove to people that I was Native.

And once I was Native, now all of a sudden the stereotypes came in... -Mm-hmm.

-...that I have these "secret powers."

-[ Chuckles ] Like what?

-Like, land nav.

I can read a map.

I don't need a map.

I know where I'm going.

You just give me the grids, and I'm like -- -You don't need a compass.

Which way's north, Chuck?

-Exactly.

But -- But it comes down to our childhood.

We know the sun rises in the east, sets in the west, so you know where north and south is.

But I still couldn't read a map and I still got lost.

-Mm-hmm.

-So I would play it off.

And I would just kind of like figure it out.

I had a good platoon sergeant that said, "Private Boers, they keep putting you out there to land nav.

Let me show you a secret.

At Fort Stewart, Georgia, on all the corners, the trees are marked with the grid coordinates."

And I was like, "Oh!"

So then he showed me on the map.

Never got lost after that.

-That's hilarious.

-So, everybody thought I was great at land nav.

Little did they realize I was cheating.

-Did they always like, "What footprints are these?"

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-Or they ask me, "What time is it?"

And I'm like, "What time?"

And then I played along with it, pulled out my pen and I threw the pen down and I'm like, "Uh, it's about 14:15."

And then they'd check their watches.

"It's 13 minutes after."

[ Gasps ] "Peyote meeting time because I'm losing my skills."

Just to kind of go along with it.

'Cause normally I wanted to stab them with the pen 'cause I'm like, "Ugh!"

And I'm not supposed to be afraid of anything.

Or, "You know this," and "How do you read this?"

I'm like, "I don't know," 'cause I really wasn't raised with knowing how to be, I guess you could say, traditional.

-Yeah.

And me and Mitchelene were talking about this on the ride over.

They think that you can sense the enemy, that you have this -- "They're out there.

I know they're over there in that bush."

Or, "They're over there in that hill."

So, during when we'd go after what was called OPFOR, the guys playing the bad guys... -Mm-hmm.

-...they would want me to go out and scout with some other folks.

So here I'm out looking around.

And then I'd come back.

And then we'd go that way, and we'd get attacked.

And they're like, "Why didn't you find the enemy?"

I was like, "You know what?

It doesn't work that way."

And they were like, "What do you mean?"

I said, "Well, they're really not the enemy.

They're U.S.

soldiers like us.

So I can't pick up on that sense.

They got to be a real enemy."

-[ Laughs ] -And they would buy it!

And I'm like, "Really?

You're gonna believe this?"

But I was like, "Okay, I'll play it."

-Oh, my God.

-Yeah.

I mean, they put you in some awkward positions.

So I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna embarrass you."

I remember basic training.

We were in the range, we were at the range, and it was close to -- You know how many times we go to the range.

And I was eating, and I guess one of the drill sergeants said, "If it's gonna rain, then we don't have to shoot."

Well, I wasn't there, and here comes most of the girls in the company.

"Big Man, Big Man!"

I'm like, "What?"

Drill sergeant said if it rains, we don't have to fire."

I'm like, "Okay."

Then they said, "Can we do a rain dance?"

I'm like, "Ohh, I'm gonna get you now."

"Yeah, let's do a rain dance."

So I'm like, "Okay, everybody get in a circle."

And I'm in the center, and I'm hitting two canteens together.

And I'm like... I'm like, "I don't even know what I'm doing."

But I was like -- And then I said, "When I stop, you guys got to raise up 'cause you got to make sure the Creator sees it."

[ Laughs ] So I had them -- And I had to hold it in.

And then they stop, and they're like... And I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, I wish somebody could have filmed this."

-Just assuming.

-Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So I'm like -- They did -- I don't know what kind of dance they were doing.

[ Laughing ] You know?

But they looked pretty crazy.

-And we're all supposed to know all the animals by sight.

We know how to get from point A to point B without a map or a compass.

We're supposed to just be some sort of a superhuman, I guess.

I don't know what it is.

But people look at us that way, yeah.

-So, you could land nav through Vietnam without a map, is what you're saying?

You literally landed in country and could figure it out.

-Well, some people will think that.

Because you're Native, they think that you just got this map built into your brain or something.

I never could understand it.

But -- And also there's a... a mis-- I don't know what you'd call it -- a trait of honorability, like, if you're Native, you're very noble.

But not all Natives are noble.

Some of them are just as big of thieves or liars as anybody else.

-Yep.

-And it's all about socialization, too.

-"Well, it was okay where I was at."

We're not where you're at.

We're all in the military, so we're all different.

So let's keep -- I said, "How would you like it if I called you paleface?"

My mom's really good at that.

"Hey, paleface, get over here!"

Would you like it?

No.

I said, you know, different things that I was used to growing up that I don't dare say because it offends somebody.

And some of them, you know, take it to heart.

And then me -- I attend a lot of powwows.

I'm a jingle dress dancer.

And I take it to -- I mean, I really get offensive when somebody says that, you know, "All right, everybody gather around.

We're gonna have a powwow."

And I'm like, "All right."

-Well, what is the purpose of a powwow?

What does it do?

What is -- -It's a social gathering.

-Mm-hmm.

-Okay.

-It's a social gathering.

Yes, there might be some spiritual components to it, but also the big thing about a powwow -- And that's something when I was growing up, that kind of pushed me even more to the military.

When we bring in the colors, it's the veterans bringing in the colors.

-Mm.

-And then we do honor songs and honor dances for our veterans.

And we're not placing our veterans on a pedestal, but we're honoring their sacrifice, their service to the community and what they do and what they stand for.

So, right there, that's part of the powwow.

-And you had a powwow in Iraq, didn't you?

-Yes, we did.

Actually, I had just came out of the Battle of Samarra, and I was told I could have a pass.

"And I was like, "All right."

Because I was getting ready to go into Fallujah.

And I was walking back from the showers after getting back from Samarra.

And I was back at Camp Victory in Baghdad.

And I ran into my cousin, and she's like, "Hey, are you going to that powwow in Fallujah?"

And I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're outside.

What are you talking about?

This is classified."

She's like, "What are you talking about?"

She whips out this little flyer, and it's, "Powwow."

And I'm like, "Oh, my goodness, there's an actual powwow?"

And it fit in the dates that I was gonna take my pass, so I went back to my command and said, "I want to take this pass."

Well, it was a young lady named Debra Mooney.

-Mm-hmm.

-But she was with the Thunderbirds out of Oklahoma.

So, a lot of Natives.

She got with the chaplain, and they organized an actual powwow.

They took a 55-gallon drum, cut it in half, took an old cot, pulled it across.

And then they got broomsticks and socks and 5-- not 550 cord, but 100-mile-an hour tape.

And they made beaters so they could do the drum.

They made the regalia.

We had stickball.

Again, what they did is they took broomsticks and they took hangers and they put them in there.

And then they took 550 cord to make the net.

They made a wooden fish and they put it up on a pole and we played stickball.

We had fry bread.

We had dancing.

We had singing, We had blowgun, tomahawk throw.

Everybody brought something to the table.

And we had the pre-powwow the day before.

Then we had the two days of powwowing.

And the fourth day, we were still powwowing.

And some people would call it a 49er.

-[ Laughs ] -So -- That's the party after the party.

-Yeah.

-But sometimes, the older folks, 49ers can be a little bit tamer.

-Mitchelene, I want to talk to you about the powwow and the color guard, of what really inspired you to that very first all-women's, color guard that you did.

Can you give me that story, how that came about?

-I've been asked that.

I said originally -- I was always one when I -- We call it "the circle."

I always put either my rank or my combat patch on my Indian outfit to express that I was a veteran.

Well, 2010, Denver March, there was three of us -- Toni Eaglefeathers and Cindy Little-- Littlefeather.

I think that's her -- Sorry, Cindy, if I messed it up.

But I made us three jingle dresses, and they were almost identical.

And we had our combat patches, our unit patches or whatever, because we wanted to show that, you know, women are veterans, as well.

But a lady by the name of Camille Claremont, when we wanted to show off our new jingle dresses -- [ Laughs ] I remember it was on a Saturday.

She noticed us when we were getting ready, and she goes, "I noticed your dresses.

What do they mean?"

I said, "We're veterans."

And she assumed we were a color guard.

"So you're a color guard?"

I said, "Oh, no, we're not a color guard."

We don't know nothing about color guarding or anything like that.

So, she had left.

So I said, "We better hurry up.

"Grand entry is about to start."

And -- While we're getting ready to line up, here comes the arena director, Chico Her Many Horses, and he wanted me to write down -- He gave me a pad of paper, and he says, "I need your nation, your rank, you know, branch of service."

And I'm like -- I'm, like, looking.

I'm like, "Okay, they're lining up."

So I'm trying to write this stuff really fast.

And then while I was writing it, he goes, "What's the name of your color guard?"

I'm like, "I'm sorry.

We're not a color guard."

[ Laughs ] And he looked at our dresses.

And I was like, "I don't know.

I just made us some dresses."

And he said, "What campaign was our campaign?"

I said, "Well, I was deployed to Iraq."

And they were mobilized because Toni was reserves and Cindy was Army National Guard.

So they were mobilized during the war.

So our first name, because we were all Army -- He goes, "Well, we'll call you the Army Women's -- Iraqi Women's -- Army Women's Iraqi Freedom Veterans."

So when they put us last, and the emcee, Lawrence Baker -- You know, as they announce the color guards, you know, everybody moves up.

So right -- You know, you lead with your left.

And everybody's like kind of snickering at some of the guys.

And I'm like, "Anyways..." And then it came to us.

And then he kind of paused.

He said -- First, you got that Indian humor.

He goes, "Well, look at what we have here.

This is the most prettiest color guard I've ever seen."

So you're smiling.

And I was embarrassed at the same time.

And then he gave a little spiel about -- At the time, he said, "For 25 years, being an emcee, I've had the honor of announcing, you know, different people that do significant things, had the honor of announcing that."

He goes, "But today I get to announce the first all-female Native American color guard."

Man, all the drums were going.

The war cries, the Lulus, the whistles and everything.

And I'm like... I'm so sensitive.

I'm like -- I looked at the girls.

I'm like, "I'm gonna cry."

[ Laughing ] They were already crying.

I was like, "We didn't expect this."

So everybody wanted us to come to their powwows because we were the first all-female Native American color guard, especially in regalia.

So, that's how it actually started.

And then as time went on, we had a marine that she wanted to join, but we were Army.

And I said, "We need to change the name."

And we changed the name to Native American Women Warriors.

Then, two years later, we took a step and went nonprofit.

And I tell people, "We're all volunteer.

We don't get paid for this."

So, we're well known for our color guard, but we're also a nonprofit, where we try to find the resources for some of our ladies that are having it hard.

And those that join, um... I mean, it's like a different type of camaraderie 'cause we have, like, command sergeant majors that retired.

We have colonels in our organization.

And like I say, that's how it started.

Mm-hmm.

-Wow.

I think that's tremendous, what you accomplished, Mitchelene.

And I think it's incredible.

And you actually had your color guard at a presidential inauguration.

That's pretty phenomenal, as well.

What was that experience like?

-Oh, man, we were so excited.

Obama's inauguration.

And we used our blue dresses.

We had the blue dresses, and I was so nervous.

I was -- We were just shocked that we made it.

And a lot of times when we do a lot of these events, that's the first time we're meeting some of our members, you know?

I made the dresses for them and I'd mail it off to them and first time we meet each other.

And then we're practicing in the parking lot.

But the fact that we were, you know, in Obama's inauguration was just amazing.

-Yep.

-And then with Obama, they said he reads 10 letters a day.

So I was like, "Maybe I can write him."

So I wrote him and I said -- I introduced myself.

And I said, "When you were campaigning on the reservations, you came through my reservation.

And it's my clan and my people that adopted you.

So, in a way, we're brother and sister.

Can I share a story with you?"

And then I gave him that story.

And then I didn't hear from him, so I was like, "Okay, it was probably..." -Well, what was your story?

-The story about how Native American Women Warriors came about.

-Oh.

Cool.

-Yeah, and then explaining the different symbols of -- You know, the first was the white dresses -- that's for purity -- and then the red dresses for the blood that people shed.

And then we had the blue for valor.

So, that's how I put that in there.

And then I also have attachment of pictures.

And then I didn't hear from him, so I'm like, "Oh, well."

And then I got a letter from him.

I got it in a nice frame.

I didn't even go to Walmart.

[ Laughing ] I actually went and got a nice frame.

-That's really phenomenal.

-Yeah.

-That's an awesome story.

-Buster, talk to me a little bit about those final days in Vietnam, one particular that stands out to me, I think.

-Well, I was with the 82nd Airborne Division.

1st and 17th cavalry.

And we were in an area called A.O.

white.

And they graded the area that you were in white, yellow, red, based on what likelihood you had of being attacked in those areas.

And we were in an area called A.O.

white.

And we were in an NDP, night defensive position, for people that don't know what that is.

I played guitar.

We were supposed to be in a pretty good place, you know, like out in your backyard, but -- And I also smoked at that time, and I was smoking on that APC, strumming my guitar.

And I heard bang, bang, bang!

And then I heard the -- [ Imitates whistling ] I knew they were coming in.

So I decided I would get kind of low to the ground and I started to get back into the APC.

And before I did, I got hit.

One hit me in the arm, one hit me here, and one hit me here.

I woke up somewhere on a helicopter.

I was thinking that I was trapped outside the helicopter on some sort of a thing.

And I -- My head was hanging off of it, and all I could see below me were trees and stuff.

And I thought I was falling.

But there was a piece of intestine hanging out right here.

And I knew it wasn't supposed to be out, so I kept trying to poke it in, and they kept telling me to leave it alone.

And I'd pass out and come back and pass out and come back.

And finally I woke up in the operating room and a big old light over my head.

And I recognized that from television 'cause I knew them big old lights was in operating rooms.

And I asked the doctor -- I said, "Can you do something to stop the pain?"

And he says, "Well, I got to know what's hurt first."

And I asked him.

I said, "Well, are you gonna operate on me?"

He says, "Yes."

I said, "Well, are you gonna put me to sleep?"

He says, "Yes."

I said, "Well, do that now 'cause this...hurts," you know?

[ Light laughter ] And I woke up several days later with medals and all that pinned to my bed, which I think they meant that I wasn't going back to my unit.

I was going, from there stateside, which took probably about four months, I guess, to get back to the United States.

And I stayed in hospital about a year total and went back to Fort Bragg, so... So, that's, uh -- I don't know if that's where the PTSD comes from 'cause I never met the guy that shot me.

You know, just one of those things.

-With me, I'm not really dealing with my PTSD like I should be.

Yeah, the VA gives us meds.

Those help.

But then I turn to my Native community, and we have spiritual things that we do.

Have I done a lot of those things that I should?

No, I did partial.

And then I kind of stepped way for a while.

But I need to get back to it.

-Yeah, that's another thing I have to deal with.

It gets tough at some days.

Some days, I don't want to take my meds.

-How did you overcome it?

-I went into a sweat lodge 'cause they seen that it was really -- I was starting to just fall.

So my family put me in a sweat lodge just to overcome that.

-My tribe does a sweat, as well.

Some of our sweats involve peyote.

Some of them don't.

-Mm-hmm.

-Yeah.

-It depends on what you're going in to sweat for.

So, it has a purpose.

It could be all veterans.

It could be all civilians.

It could be mixed.

-Okay.

-And normally men separate -- sweat separate from females.

-Is that right?

-Yeah.

But there are some times that they're co-ed sweats.

And that's kind of a rarity.

-I went to one where it was a co-ed, and I didn't like that one because they were trying to cram all of us in there.

And then the women had to wear skirts.

And I couldn't figure out "Why do I have to wear a skirt?"

And it's just different.

But the ladies that were -- They were older ladies and my mom.

And they just kind of like were in there.

And then you do the praying.

And then when you come out, you just -- not only that.

You feel refreshed, and it seemed like everything that you were dealing with, you just feel like, "Okay, I just dumped it in there."

-And some people will refer to it as they come out of the sweat.

It's a rebirth.

-Mm-hmm.

-Yeah.

You're coming out cleansed.

-Yep.

-You're renewed.

And you sweated all that toxin out and all that negative energy and all that poison out.

And you can take the easy way.

You can have someone do sage and an eagle feather and you kind of get blessed that way and -- They call it smudging.

-Smudging.

-Yep.

So, there's a lot of different things that we have in ceremonies to help cleanse ourselves.

-Well, for Native Americans, depends on -- I mean, depends on access for health care, there are no VA clinics or VA hospitals on reservations.

-Okay -- -Right?

-Yeah, but what has happened now is there's actually a written agreement now between the VA and Indian Health Services.

So, Indian Health Services will provide what the VA will.

And now the VA is starting to integrate Native traditions, as well, where like -- If you go to the La Jolla VA in San Diego, we got a medicine wheel right out front with rocks painted.

And they do sweat lodges.

So, out at Rincon, they do sweat lodges at Indian Health Services.

But the services now talk.

The Indian Health Services and the VA talk.

And they kind of work together.

Like my tradition, usually when someone's smudging you, they put down a blanket.

They smudge this.

All the stuff is supposed to go on the blanket.

So I did that.

The next step is I'm supposed to burn it so all that stuff goes away.

So now all this bad stuff's on the blanket.

And I'm like, "You gotta go burn it."

Why do I want to let this anger go?

That's part of PTSD.

I'm angry.

I don't want to let this go.

I don't want these memories to go away.

I don't want this hurt to go away.

So I need to take the Western world medicine now and our traditional medicine and bring it together and learn to let it go.

And I'm working towards that.

And it's not through the VA, but it's talking with some of my fellow veterans.

It's talking with my Native brothers and sisters that are veterans.

-He said something that I didn't think about before.

The fire purifies.

Or at least, that's the way we think.

We have the fire.

We build a sacred fire.

We build it with seven different types of wood, and certain ceremonies you have to do before you can go in.

Smudging's one of them.

And you take tobacco or wood or sweetgrass or something, and you project your -- your problems into it, I guess.

And then you make the offerings, and you put it on the fire.

And as the fire consumes that, it's supposed to help you consume whatever it is that's bothering you.

But for anybody that's ever been to the fire before and anybody that ever went to that fire again, they become your ancestors or something.

They become people that share whatever hardship you have.

So you kind of expand your suffering through other people, which I guess is supposed to lessen it.

-Well, Chuck, Mitchelene, Buster, I want to thank you so much, not only for coming down, but also for your service.

You guys are warriors, not only for your service, but for each and every one of you for carrying on the traditions of your culture.

And thank you for educating me and educating our nation and for serving your nation, as well.

-Thank you.

-It was an honor.

Thank you.

- There will be light There is a road Marching on Coming home