After Action

-Historically, a large percentage of veterans live and work on farms across the U.S.

Whether that's because of government incentivization programs or the solitude and healing farming brings, these veterans are cultivating their futures through agritherapy.

-After being injured in Afghanistan, it kind of gave me a sense of purpose and mission-driven, and I think a lot of soldiers find that once your one mission ends, you know, this new mission begins.

Farming kind of saved my life, and, like, really, I feel like, grounded me in something bigger than myself.

Especially after we come through war, when you're seeing life being taken, it's really humbling to see something new being born.

I think it really reaches you at the human level that I think a lot of other ways of therapy can.

-For me, I can go out there and spend hours and not feel any sense of judgment whatsoever.

I could go out there feeling like a dark cloud hovering over me and come back feeling like a ray of sunshine.

-And with farming, you can't just have a bad day and say, "Oh, I'm not gonna feed the pigs today."

You have things depending on you.

We've found that that really resonates with transitioning service members and veterans because they want that connection to the Earth, to the soil, to the nation that they've defended.

You know, they want to kind of put their hands in the dirt.

-I'm gonna pop open -- I'll pop open this.

You see that yellow jacket in there, too?

-Yeah.

-All right, so if she stings me, then the pheromone goes off.

Right?

-Aren't defenders male?

-So 99% of the hives are gonna be females.

So the drones are the only males.

-Okay.

-All they do is go hang out at the pickup bar.

-Yep.

[ Laughter ] -Because they're going in and out of the hotel basically on the front side.

-Correct.

And they feel energy.

Like, they feel -- If you're nervous and all that type of stuff, like, they will definitely feel it.

You can feel the hive, you can smell the hive.

You see the hive, you see life.

And by no means am I a scientist or a therapist, but I know physiologically it changed me.

And this ultimate, to me, calmness -- I call it chaos to calmness 'cause these bees are coming out everywhere.

But you don't even notice anything anymore.

And that, to me, was the first time that I took a breath, that I felt like I could actually breathe in 10 years.

-Hi.

I'm Stacy Pearsall, retired Air Force combat photographer.

In this episode, I'm sitting down with Kara Rutter, Davon Goodwin, and Steve Jimenez -- three veterans who share what life is like on the farm... after action.

- There will be light There is a road Marching on Coming home [ Birds chirping ] Major funding for After Action is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina, the proud partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio, and by America's Vet Dogs.

-Steve, Kara, Davon, welcome to LowCountry Acres.

I really appreciate you taking the time to come on down here and chat about farming and veterans and agritherapy and all things getting getting your hands dirty.

I really want to start with talking about your military service.

What brought you to the military in the first place?

'Cause I think that really leads into what you're doing now.

Let's start with you, Davon.

-It's kind of a funny story, but 2007, first-generation college student.

Um, my grandfather, you know, he fought in Vietnam.

Had no inkling to join the military.

And I took a lot of student loan debt, you know, as a first-generation college student.

And so one day, the recruiter was kind of like, um, "You know, we have student loan repayment.

You know, we have a $20,000 enlistment bonus."

And at the time, I felt myself, like, losing discipline, you know?

And so I felt like, "Well, if I can kind of do the military, do something that's gonna be hard and also be able to fund, you know, college, then it'd be a win-win."

And so I joined in December of 2007.

And, um, the Army was just the only recruiter there at the university.

-[ Laughs ] -And so... -So the options were limited.

-There wasn't a lot of options.

I mean, I knew, kind of hearing, like, the Marines was gonna be, like, really hard.

The Air Force is kind of real soft.

-Hey, now.

Mind your manners.

-It was kind of like, "Well, if I do the Army, it's kind of like...

yeah."

And so... -Just right.

-Yeah.

And it was a whirlwind since then.

-Okay.

And did you go active duty?

Guard?

Reserve?

-Yes, I went Reserve.

And so I was in a -- I was put in a non-deployable unit.

Um, and after being, like, two years in, I felt as if I wanted to deploy, so I volunteered to deploy.

And I didn't really think they would call me.

I just felt like, "Well, put your name on the list and they'll call you, maybe they won't."

And then two weeks later, they call.

-That quick, huh?

-Yeah.

And so, yeah.

-Davon Goodwin was balancing combat deployments for the Army Reserves while trying to complete a college degree when he was wounded by an improvised explosive device in Afghanistan.

Ultimately, he persevered, earning a bachelor's degree in biology.

Upon graduation, he purchased 42 acres in North Carolina, naming his place Off the Land Farms, where he now farms sustainably alongside his wife and kids.

Together, they use their farm to connect with their broader community, teach healthy eating, and share regenerative farming.

Kara, you were Army, right?

-I was Army, yes.

-What brought you to the Army?

-Um, I mean, I -- Both my grandfathers had fought in World War II.

I always had a pretty patriotic bent to me, I guess.

Um, I went to college for a few semesters on an ROTC scholarship, and that wasn't really the place for me at that time.

And, uh, so the Army sent me a very nice letter saying that I could, you know, pay back my scholarship money or join the Army for three years.

And I said, "That sounds better."

Um, and so I went down to the recruiter and said, "I think I want food service."

And he said, "That's the worst job in the Army.

You know, you work weekends and holidays.

You're not gonna be cooking for a general.

I mean, like, it's bad."

And I said, "No, I -- That's what I want."

Um, so that's -- that's what I did for 23 years.

so... -Wow.

-Was it just the Army recruiter, like Davon?

-Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I just walked right down to them.

I mean, the -- You know, the Army recruiter was -- I was definitely one of the easy ones 'cause I already knew that I was going into the Army, had this paperwork, and he's like, "Sure, I will take you."

Um, and so then I... I went from Montana to South Carolina -for the first time.

-Yeah?

-...um, and ended up retiring here 23 years later.

So... -Wow.

After a career spent in food services with the Army, Kara Rutter yearned to be on the growing side of production.

Despite having no experience in farming, Kara and her husband purchased land in South Carolina after retiring from the military and named their place Rutter's Ranch.

While earning a PhD in agriculture, Kara learned how to tend livestock, plant gardens, reconnect with her community, heal her heart, grow her mind, and founded Project Victory Gardens -- an agritherapy and education program designed to cultivate resiliency amongst veterans.

So you were in culinary.

-Mm-hmm.

-What was your job, Davon?

-I was an 88-Mike.

So a transportation operator.

-Okay.

So we've got a truck driver, I'm assuming.

-Yeah.

-And a food specialist.

Okay.

What about you, Steve?-Awesome.

Yeah, I went in after 9/11.

So 9/11 was my junior year in high school, and I played varsity sports.

So all my buddies decided to -- to go.

They were seniors, right?

And they were graduating and leaving.

So, you know, I just felt that calling at that point for -- for what had happened to the country and, you know, my buddies and following them, 'cause, you know, they were leaders in my life anyway, playing sports.

Um, I did communications.

So I went to the Marine Corps in '06.

And, uh, my parents told me, "You know, you can't just go to the Marine Corps.

There's a war going on."

So, um, they encouraged me very, um -- a lot of encouragement, we'll put it that way.

Encouraged me to go to college.

-Mm.

-So I went to Texas A&M and graduated from there in '06, and then went to OCC to work for the Marine Corps and became a communications officer.

So I went from OCS, TBS, Comm School, and then went to Miramar as a comm officer.

-Well, what does that entail?

So I know what a truck driver does, and I know what a food specialist does.

-Yeah.

Comms is, uh -- And it's different in the Army than -- than the Marine Corps, as well.

So comms is what we call any kind of communication network.

So anything that bleeps or blurps -- single-channel radio, data, um, wire.

Everything that has anything to do with a communications platform -- That's what we utilize.

-Interesting.

Steve Jimenez spent eight years in the Marine Corps as a commissioned officer.

Despite having a successful post-military career scaling Fortune 500 companies and creating his own consulting firm, he battled with post-traumatic stress.

At his lowest point, Steve was introduced to beekeeping by a fellow veteran, where he experienced the therapeutic benefit of bees and connected with other veterans on their own journeys of healing.

Shortly after, Steve founded the nonprofit Hives for Heroes.

Now, did you see a lot of traveling, the three of you?

Any deployments?

You said you put your name in the hat and they called you two weeks later.

I'm assuming that wasn't to go to Hawaii.

Where did you go?

-No.

Yeah.

So we were -- Our -- Our orders were for Kuwait and Iraq.

-Okay.

-And then about, hmm, three months in, we got pushed into Afghanistan.

And so that was not, you know, the theater of war that we trained for.

You know, we were supposed to just be drawing all the equipment out of Iraq, you know, drawing it down.

And then they wanted to have a HET company, which is a Heavy Equipment Transporter, you know, to haul Abrams tanks.

They wanted that company to go to Afghanistan.

And so we had to -- We picked ourselves and my platoon picked themselves to be deployed to Afghanistan.

-You picked to go to Afghanistan?

-I mean, they just came in the tent and was like, you know, I mean, "Who's gonna go?"

I mean, and everybody was like, "Well, we'll go."

And I just kind of looked around and that was kind of it.

-What about you two?

-So, um, I went to Iraq in the very beginning of the war.

We found out the night before and packed up our trucks and -- and went to the border.

And then after that, after we got back from Iraq, uh, I went, um, to the Pentagon for a few years, and then -- then I spent six years overseas.

My last position was -- was at Army Central.

So I was working with food service for the entire Middle East.

So I spent a lot of time traveling from Afghanistan to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait.

-The Army's big.

-The Army's big.

-Everywhere.

-Yes.

-Well, the Marine Corps' small, but you guys are everywhere, too.

-We're kind of everywhere.

Yeah.

In 2010, we deployed a 15th MEU with, uh, you know, OEF.

And so we did 17 countries, different operations all over the world.

Um, incredible -- incredible opportunity to, one, see the world, but to really see what it's like to employ MAGTF, which is a Marine Air-Ground Task Force, and that's everything that the Marine Corps has to offer.

Just very, very diverse in what a MAGTF can do, what the Marine Corps does and operates.

So it's impressive to see and you learn just so much.

Right?

There's so much going on.

You have to be able to shift on and shift off, right, whether you're talking to a civilian or doing something completely different.

Um, it's a way to almost go through and learn what -- what the entire Marine Corps has to offer as a very small force.

You know, it was impressive to see and be a part of.

-My time and experience overseas changed the course of my life in a way that, um, not only ended my military career -- It changed my occupation.

It changed my physical health, my mental health.

Uh, it changed everything for me.

What kind of impacts did your military career have on -- have on you and your trajectory in life?

Can you talk to me a little bit about that and maybe what your reintegration back into, um, coming home was like?

-Yeah.

So for me, I mean, the military changed my life completely.

So August 31, 2010, my vehicle hit a roadside bomb.

And from there, kind of one life went away and a new life kind of was propped up.

And so the whole time I've been in school, my degree is in biology and botany.

So the goal at the time was to get a PhD in botany.

That was the goal.

When that bomb went off, it changed.

And so when I got back to the United States, I still felt a sense of finishing my degree, but I felt a sense of, like, almost a loss of purpose, you know?

And the whole time I was finishing my degree, I was kind of figuring out, who am I as a person?

And then I kind of fell -- fell in love with agriculture.

And really being in a really rural part of North Carolina, agriculture is all around us.

And I kept thinking to myself, "How can I be a part of something that still could service my community?"

And farming became that new service, you know?

And so 10 years ago, I started farming, and I've been doing it ever since.

And so I feel like without that bomb going off, I would have never been a farmer.

This was not the goal.

You know, the goal was to travel the world, you know, and do botany.

And then when that bomb went off, I feel like it -- it changed for the better, you know.

So I feel like I'm better off for it.

-So you're telling me you didn't identify as a farmer prior to the military?

-No.

So, I mean, I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

[ Laughter ] You know, I was a city kid.

I played in the dirt, you know, my whole life, knew I wanted to, you know, go to school for botany.

Never thought of farming, you know.

I just felt like, um, you know, after being injured, it was a huge calling, you know, and it really grounded me.

And I feel like without farming -- You know, farming kind of saved my life.

You know, it gave me that sense of purpose and, like, really, I feel like, grounded me in something bigger than myself.

And at the time, I definitely needed that.

-What -- What brought you to the farming?

-I met two doctors who had land and they were looking for a farm manager.

At the time, I didn't know nothing about farming, you know, and they were kind of like, "Well, you have leadership experience, you know.

And so we can teach you the farming part."

And so their farm is about 466 acres.

-That's all?

-Yeah.

I mean, when they told -- When they -- I mean, when they offered me the job, they said, "Well, come out to our little farms."

I'm thinking this is probably, like, 10 acres.

And they're like, "Well, we own both sides of the street."

And I'm like, "Whoa."

I mean, so from chickens, pigs, ducks, turkeys, grapes, hay, we kind of had it all.

And so it was kind of a crash course in the farming.

And it was a young farmer's dream.

I mean, we had all the, you know, animals.

I had all the chance to really learn how to farm.

And so from there, you know, I spent about 5 1/2 years there.

And then after that experience, you know, me and my wife, we bought our farm that we have now.

-I cannot imagine not having any experience, and they're like, "Oh, you come from a military background with good management skills.

You got this.

You'll be fine."

[ Clears throat ] Um... -Yeah, it was overwhelming to a certain extent, but it was kind of like, "You can do this.

You know, like, you're prepared for this."

But it was kind of like -- really almost like going back to college, you know, trying to buy every book that you can find on Amazon, watching every YouTube video on how to farm.

And from there, it was kind of, like, um, you know, the farm became, you know, my sense of purpose.

But it really -- I felt like it really saved me because at the time, I really needed something to give me focus.

You know, I think, um, transitioning out of the military, I think we often don't do the best job in transition, you know, and I really needed -- You know, I needed a community more than I thought.

I thought I wanted to be all alone on a farm.

The one thing I learned about the farm is, farming is very isolating, you know?

So one thing is, I had my dream of being a farmer, but I was always alone.

You know, and the farm became, like, almost a compound to a certain extent.

And so it became a gift and a curse, you know.

So as I kind of dived deep into the farming, I kind of needed my community to kind of, you know, be along the journey.

And so that's how we started our pick-your-own-operation, letting the community into my story and really being vulnerable and sharing, you know, my adversities and kind of, um, figuring out how as a community, you know, I can be better.

-How have they embraced you or how have you embraced them?

-Yeah, I mean, I feel like they've been, like, my accountability partner.

You know, I feel like they -- Obviously they honor my service, you know.

And that's a great, you know, feeling coming from a rural community.

You know, and I feel like, you know, having somebody who is willing to, you know, not just share my story with them, but let me listen and hear their story, 'cause I feel like we all have a war story.

We all have something happen in our lives that wasn't supposed to happen.

And it's like, the resiliency of a community -- What's gonna happen after that?

And so I feel like they have really let me share my story with them, but also for them to share their story in how they overcame adversity.

And that kind of helps me, you know, when I face adversity.

-Hmm.

You all have a war story that brought you to farming?

-I mean, I don't know that I have a war story, um, that brought me to farming, but, you know, I was fortunate to kind of see food service.

I've seen it from a lot of different sides throughout my 23 years in the Army, and even before that, um, had always been involved in food and food service.

And so when you're kind of managing food service for 100,000 people deployed halfway around the world, um, you see things from a different perspective, right?

Um, we eat a lot of food in the military.

You know?

The Army moves on its stomach.

And so coordinating how we get that food, because we buy, as much as possible, American.

And then we ship that clear around the world.

Uh, so coordinating to make sure that we have, you know, turkeys at this camp and this camp for Thanksgiving so that Mom and Dad know that their, you know -- their sons and daughters are eating the same Thanksgiving meal that we're eating.

That's a big -- That's a big muscle movement, right, to get the food over there in the first place, and then to all the different places.

We plan for that over a year out.

We don't even know where our troops are gonna be in a year, but we still have to make sure that there's going to be turkey and stuffing and cranberry sauce there on Thanksgiving, wherever our soldiers might be in the world.

And so kind of seeing some of that perspective, I really started paying more attention to kind of the strategic importance of -- of food and looking at some of some of the ways that our very centralized food system, um, is really a detriment to our national security.

And so if you look at -- at a food system that is really focused around four or five companies in meat, four or five companies, you know, in other manufactured goods, when we have a situation like COVID, it really highlights the fragility of that system.

And I think that that's what really brought me to farming.

There's that, and then I went to to Qatar on, um, you know -- on a trip for work and I think I was in London on a layover, and I called Matt on the phone and said, "Hey, what are you doing?"

Matt's like, "Well, we're at Tractor Supply."

I said, "What are you doing at Tractor Supply?"

And he and my daughter were buying -- It was Chick Days at Tractor Supply, so they were buying chickens and ducklings.

And so I got back from a couple of weeks in the Middle East, and there's ducklings floating in my Jacuzzi bathtub and chicks in my laundry room, and he's like, "Surprise.

We're farmers."

[ Laughter ] 'Cause, you know, chickens are the gateway drug to farming.

And so, um, we retired right into COVID.

What else do you do during COVID with a bunch of teenagers around the house but build fence?

So we built about 3 miles of fence line, and once we got the fence built, we had to get animals, right?

So we -- we bought our practice goats and our practice pigs and we have all these birds around.

And it was the same thing, though -- We realized that we missed our community.

And so that's when we kind of shifted our focus more from -- from farming, from growing food, to growing farmers.

And that's what we really focus on now is, um -- You know, we tell people, "We are the world's worst farmers, but we're really good at growing farmers."

Um, and so that's what we like.

Um, and we've found that that really resonates with transitioning service members and veterans because they want that -- they want that connection to the Earth, to the soil, to the nation that they've defended.

You know, they want to kind of put their hands in the dirt, and that's, um -- That's what we've found has been really rewarding in our post-retirement era, is helping them connect with that.

-Did you have farming experience before you started?

-I'm from Montana.

So I would say, you know, when you grow up in Montana, you're kind of ag-adjacent.

-[ Laughs ] Okay.

-Yeah, we always had -- My grandpa always had a big garden.

You know, we always canned.

And some of my fondest childhood memories are of butchering chickens, but, um, we never -- I mean, we never had a farm, per se, but we were always kind of around that.

-Now, Steve, you're a beekeeper.

But what -- what brought you into... -Apiary.

Apiary.

Aspiary?

Apiary?

Herbiary?

I don't know.

What are all the terms?

Help me.

-I had a lot of ranching experience when I was -- when I was young.

We went back and forth from San Antonio and Houston and so we ranched, so... -Your parents or what?

-We did.

My grandparents were farmers and ranchers.

But I took more of a kin to the ranching side, loving animals, being able to do, um -- just be outside, breathe fresh air.

You know, at that time, there wasn't a lot of buildings around.

And now San Antonio has grown so much that even the agricultural area has neighborhoods in it.

So it's kind of taking over a lot of those spaces.

And how does that translate to beekeeping?

Oh, man.

I think it's incredible to be able to empower and give the right tools and processes to people so they can do the work that they enjoy.

And so with Hives for Heroes, our opportunity is creating a platform for them to have access, resources, and funding for their success.

Um, I had a life-changing experience based on an invite from one friend.

So you start sharing these experiences and you realize that you're -- like, me personally, that my story is unique, but the bees work with us the same way.

So they connect us.

So why not utilize the strengths that the bees have, learn from them, and mimic it?

So what is a great thing that they do?

They connect well.

They're disciplined, they work well together.

They know their jobs.

What does that sound like?

Shared purpose.

Shared mission.

Right?

So all these types of things, we just started translating that from the bee side to the military side.

There's this overcoming of fear and anxiety.

Um, you know, the hypervigilance gets to calm down.

But when you go into a hive, as we talked about earlier, um, there's a response action.

There's a disciplinary response action when you're not doing things correctly and it's immediate.

So trusting yourself, your gear, and your buddies; following a known process; finding success and building confidence.

And that translates directly into life.

So we've seen just so many amazing stories all around the country.

Um, and we've been able to be a veteran arm for a lot of organizations throughout the United States and act as an administrative support -- resources, education, and truly community.

Back to that community aspect, where if you lose connection, that's where that isolation comes in.

And I was in that spot, that isolation-depression piece.

And so if we can cut off that isolation and get before that and have that connection back again to each other, connection to nature, which is beautiful, um, that's what we believe actually works.

And as we talked about earlier, you can have the biggest numbers in the world.

That's awesome.

Great.

Our only number is number one.

It takes one person to reach out to another person to prevent one suicide.

That's it.

And that's what we focus on.

-Yeah.

I think, um... I come from a long line of military in my family, but about the time that I got around to actually enlisting myself, I was, um -- came from rural America, and my mom was really into horses.

That's kind of where my heart lives, is on the farm.

But, anyway, I ended up seeing the world.

And then, um, I ended up getting injured in Iraq, medically retired.

I was fixated on all the things the doctors were saying that I couldn't do, including ride my horses anymore.

And I think that really was the biggest thing that put me in a downward spiral in terms of my mental health.

At some point, I finally was just like, "I'm gonna completely disregard everything and -- everything they're telling me and do what is best for me."

And that meant getting back to my horses and farm life.

Honestly, it really -- It was one of the best things that ever happened to me in my life, um, and mentally.

And, listen, I'm a -- I'm the worst gardener.

I probably do all things kind of wrong.

And, um, you've visited my greenhouse.

You've seen my sad excuse for an orchard, but I think it's all about the effort.

But what intrigues me a lot is just getting outside and breathing the air.

Spending that time with my horses, who don't pass judgment on me.

I can go out there with a dark cloud over my head and come back in, not accomplishing anything other than letting it all go and coming back in and being like, "I have nothing to show for my garden."

I could spend all the time in the garden and not have anything to show for it, and be perfectly fine and happy and be like, "I feel okay."

Dirt under my nails, perfectly happy.

There is this phenomena happening nationwide, but this isn't the first trend in it.

Um, I got so intrigued by this that I found out that obviously, historically, the U.S.

recruits -- or had recruited from rural America to the military, um, and that kind of waned, um, for a while.

And then the USDA was like, "Hey, we want to invite military veterans to the farm," and now they're aging out.

Um, I think that the average U.S.

veteran that's farming right now is in their 60s.

-68.

-But they want to bring veterans back to the farm, right?

Can you talk to me a little bit about what makes -- Like Davon, what do you get from farming?

What heals our souls?

Why is this so good for us as veterans?

-Yeah, so, you know, it's been interesting.

As you kind of look at the ebb and flow of, um, farmer age and farm sizes and number of farms in the United States over the years, um, there are -- There are certain crisis, or almost crisis, points.

Um, so right after World War II, it was the same thing.

Farmers were old, we were losing acreage in farmland because all the young men had gone off to war.

Uh, and so after World War II, when those soldiers came back from war, they made a very concerted effort, um, to do farm and agricultural training, opportunities and programs.

And so almost 700,000 returning GIs went into agriculture because of training programs that were offered by the government.

And so then that dropped that age of farmers back down again.

Same thing kind of happened after Korea, Vietnam.

Um, and so, you know, when you look at our generation of farmers, um, farmers are getting older.

Veteran farmers are disproportionately older.

And that's a huge chunk of agriculture.

So nationally, about 9% of farmers are veterans, um, have military service.

Everyone is kind of acknowledging that there is value in -- in attracting veterans to agriculture, that veterans are uniquely suited for agriculture.

So the USDA has some great programs.

Um, the Enhancing Agricultural Opportunities for Military Veterans is the grant that Project Victory Gardens is currently working on.

And we were really excited to be the first recipient of that in South Carolina, um, because there -- there are a lot of transitioning service members and veterans that really want to get into agriculture, but they need that little push.

They need the training program.

A lot of them are first-generation farmers, um, so they don't have family land to necessarily go back to, but they feel that call.

Hopefully we go down the road of really encouraging more veterans to get into agriculture because we're uniquely suited to it.

-And I think for me, it was something that, um -- No other therapy I've ever done has worked as well as farming, you know, and it's something that -- You know, when you're out there, you know, it's time for you to -- you know, to me have that one-on-one.

I come from a spiritual background.

So that's my time to connect with God and, you know, the higher purpose.

I think where farming has just been one of the things that -- I don't think there's another way to do it.

You know, I think that, um -- I meet a lot of veterans who, you know, whether it's, you know, raising animals or doing the horticulture part, you know, it just really gives you a purpose that I think, um, most veterans are trying to find.

And I think, you know, we as a country have to really ask ourselves, you know, "What's the best way to serve veterans?"

You know what I mean?

Some can do it in talk therapy, but others need a different style of therapy.

And I think that for each veteran, you know, each probably has their own story.

And I think that, you know, we have to meet veterans where they are, you know, and I think the best way to do that is to, you know, grow something or see something born.

You know, I think it's really interesting to see new life.

Especially after we come through war, when you're seeing life being taken, it's really humbling to see something new being born.

You know what I mean?

It may be a small seed or a new baby goat, but it's, um -- I think it really reaches you at the -- the human level that I think a lot of other ways of therapy can't.

-It's so crazy that you said that, but I never put that connection together until just this moment.

But, um, here on my farm, we -- we raise Brabants, European Brabant, and they're a very rare draft breed.

And, um, we made a concerted effort in our breeding program and one of the first babies we ever had born on this farm, her name's Opal, and I remember, um, the minute she was born, um, my neighbor Terry was over here, and it was a community thing.

But I thought in that moment that that was all the things that I wanted.

But, Davon, you just put the nail on the head.

So much death surrounded me in everything.

And why -- why am I doing what I do now?

To produce life and to keep life going.

That is so profound.

I never put those two together.

-I do think nature speaks to you, whether we're at the beehives, and they feel that energy, you know?

So it's the energy that we give off, you know, nature has a way of giving it back to us.

You know, people judge, whether they say they're not gonna judge you, or it's your family saying, "Well, we're gonna meet you where you are."

It's not as true as it is with animals.

I think for a lot of veterans, you need that.

You know, you need a space where it's, like, zero judgment.

They're just gonna meet you where you are.

And the energy that you give them, oftentimes, you know, they have a way of giving it to you back in a way that I don't think no other, you know, way of therapy can give you.

-Hmm.

-You know?

-Do you go to your vines and you kind of leave it out there with the grapes?

Like, is that -- Is that where you find your -- your therapy, to leave it out there instead of turning it onto your family?

-Yeah.

I mean, it's -- it's hard because, you know, your family gets the brunt of whatever you're going through, you know, no matter if you try to shield them from it or not.

I mean, they're there around you.

I will often find myself just, you know -- just going out and just walking, you know, whether it's in the vineyard or just walking around the farm, just trying to, you know, let it all out in a safe manner.

And I think, you know, that's been my way of, you know, kind of, um, trying to adjust back to reality as much as I possibly can.

-What about you guys?

-Our farm is sort of loosely organized chaos.

Um, so we have a little bit of everything so that when veterans come to the farm, they can kind of see what speaks to them and what they're interested in.

So we've got Mangalitsa pigs, which are the curly-haired pigs.

Um, super-cool, but really slow-growing.

I mean, he's a big 500-pound -- You know, he looks like a sheep, but he's a pig.

So, uh, that's Fodor.

Um, he's always happy to see you because he knows he's getting fed.

The girl pigs are always, you know, yelling and crying for food.

But Fodor is just like, "Hey, what's going on?

You're gonna feed me?

That's awesome," um, no matter what.

I mean, the hurricane passes through, and they're there, and there's downed trees all in all of our pastures, and Fodor's like, "Oh, hey.

Awesome.

Let's eat," no matter what.

And so that's -- You know, that's a really neat -- Um, no matter what's going on in your life, you can go up and Fodor's exactly the same.

He's gonna greet you at the corner.

He's gonna walk to where the bucket is and just wait till you say "hi" and toss him his food.

So that's -- You know, that's one thing that we really like.

And I think a lot of it is, you know, the consistency of farming.

Farming, especially when you have animals, requires you to be there for them.

And I think that that's something that also appeals to a lot of veterans, um, is that, you know, there is -- There is something that is depending on me, um, this thing needs me and can't -- can't do it without me.

That self-responsibility, um, that you sort of bring into yourself as a farmer is -- is a lot of the reason that a lot of veterans want to get into farming and agriculture, particularly on the animal, the livestock, side of it.

In the military system, that's the way we're structured.

There's always somebody junior to you.

From the time you graduate from basic training, there's somebody junior to you who depends on you for something.

And that's kind of what farming brings, too.

-That's interesting.

Can you explain to me what Project Victory Gardens is?

Like, what was the genesis of that?

-Yeah, so it all kind of goes back to, you know, food is my love language.

Um, and -- and so, you know, my -- my grandpa always had a huge garden, uh, a huge garden in the back.

And, um, so, you know, he would talk kind of about World War II and the victory gardens in World War II.

Um, he would talk about rationing.

He had very strong opinions on margarine not being a real food and the fact that he went... -True.

-[ Laughing ] This is true.

-The fact that he went and fought in the Pacific in World War II so that his granddaughter would not have to eat margarine.

He used more colorful language, but that was the general... -Feel free to use that, if you like.

-That was the general idea.

Um, but, uh, you know, in World War I and World War II, 40% of the national food supply was raised in backyard gardens.

Um, everybody had a garden, chickens, a pig.

Um, and the fact that you could raise 40% of the nation's food supply just by the kids, and, you know, Mom at home putting in some time with a garden and raising the pigs and feeding the scraps to the pigs.

And really a more closed-system food chain than what we have now is very appealing to me.

And so the idea that, you know, we could grow what we needed, um, was kind of the genesis of the idea.

And then we kind of first started focusing on the agritherapy.

But what we realized was that we didn't need to focus on the agritherapy.

That just comes with it.

What we needed to focus on was agricultural education.

And so that's kind of shifted, um, over the course of a couple years.

But we are a 501(c)(3) organization, and we focus primarily on transitioning service members and -- and veterans and getting them into agriculture and then helping them stay in agriculture and become successful.

-So how did Hives for Heroes come about?

Tell me about how you -- That's your brainchild, right?

Like, how did this manifest?

-Yeah, it's a -- It's a collection of people.

I don't think any of us do anything individually.

So we had a handful of people that wanted to spend time with each other and get off the couch and stop drinking.

I mean, that's really -- We'd say, "Get out of the bar and go into the beeyard."

And that was very impactful to us.

I -- A wonderful story that I love sharing is, uh, we had two brothers out there, myself and another person, and we're -- we're doing a rescue-and-removal for an elderly lady.

And her husband happened to be a beekeeper and happened to have passed away, like, two weeks before that.

-Mm.

-So as we were doing the extraction on the wall, which basically took up the entire side of her house, um, but she asked for the honey, and it was an emotional experience for her, that, one, her spouse had just passed; two, these bees, which were her -- or his passion showed up.

For us to be able to remove those, relocate them into a safe environment to keep that spirit alive -- we actually do a lot of memorial hives now, as well, keeping the spirit alive of fallen, uh, veterans -- was super-impactful.

And, uh, I remember one of the guys going like, "Man, you know what I would have been --" And we did three in a row, three back-to-back-to-back days.

He's like, "You know what I would have been doing yesterday?"

I'm like, "No, what's up, man?

"Drinking, on the couch."

-Hm.

-He's like, "You know what I would have done the day before?

Drunk on the couch."

So this -- this piece from just, like, a handful of people, like, one invite, one serving other people, and then continuing to serve other people in the capacity of their needs -- not my need, not our need, but their need -- was extremely rewarding.

There's no way to explain this.

You have scientists that are fighting over explanations of why bees fly and blah, blah, blah.

Don't care.

And that's a beautiful part about Hives for Heroes, is, I don't care.

I just don't want you to take your life.

That's it.

How do we do that?

Through connection, through experiences, through building healthy relationships, and serving our communities.

-I want to talk a little bit about what makes bees so therapeutic for -- for veterans and why someone would be compelled to want to keep them in the first place.

I think of bees and I think of beestings.

-Yeah, absolutely.

-So why are they so special?

-We're human, and the human experience is something that's incredibly beautiful.

And when you're connecting with nature, they don't -- The bees do not care that you are there.

They're there to produce and reproduce.

So one of the things is taking yourself out of importance.

I am not that important, and that's okay.

But I get to steward these creatures that are -- that have lived well before me, and they will live well after me, and they're doing good every second of the day.

But when you're in the hive, you can feel the hive, you can smell the hive.

You see the hive.

You see life.

As one of my friends put it, he put -- He put the frame up and he goes, "I can feel life."

And by no means am I a scientist or a therapist, but I know physiologically it changed me.

They're just doing what they do.

And this ultimate, to me, calmness -- I call it chaos to calmness.

'Cause these bees are coming out everywhere, but you don't even notice anything anymore.

And that, to me, was the first time that I took a breath, that I felt like I could actually breathe in 10 years.

Again, I feel like that is my unique story, but it's not a unique experience.

And once you have that experience, the things that are going on in your brain, which we will start studying right now with this -- this coming up spring with the University of Florida and a neurologist from Georgia, is actually looking at, what does that do to your brain, 'cause we know it makes actual changes.

Now we want to prove it.

How do you prove that that exists?

So if it can change my life and it's changed so many other people's lives, it works.

I can't explain everything because, again, I'm not a scientist.

But the act of staying calm through chaos is something that a lot of us have gone through.

Come out of the military, and I felt at the time when I got out, I left my family to go home.

Wow.

That's weird.

I thought I was going home to my family.

But the people that were my family were the people that I had shared experiences and shared hardships and tough trials and losses, and nobody at home understood that.

You know, you go talk to your parents.

"Oh, we're just glad you're home."

But everything's changed.

That was very difficult for me to transition in that piece.

But those bees, when I can go into those bees and literally understand that I don't control their life, which means I'm not in control... whoa!

That changed -- It, like, blew a piece of my brain.

I'm not in control?

[ Breathes deeply ] I'm not in control, and that's okay.

And then we start caring about each other and moving forward, and that understanding that we're just stewards in this life, oh, it's a beautiful thing.

All the weight comes off your shoulders.

No more pressure.

And I get to do is enjoy this experience of life.

I don't know how you scientifically prove that, but I know it works.

-That's got to be a lot of -- yeah, like you said, a lot of weight off your shoulders.

But you still said a word that almost, um, is a word of responsibility, which is "stewardship."

-Yeah.

-So how do you marry those two?

By relinquishing responsibility, but at the same token, you're responsible for them.

What does that -- What does that mean, exactly?

-Uh, I don't know how to translate it really directly, but my experience would be, like, I am not in control... -Yeah, -...but I get to serve.

We talked about the difference between help and support.

We don't say we help anybody at Hives for Heroes.

They don't need my help.

They need our support.

They are capable.

They are competent.

They've been leaders.

They are able to do these things.

They just need an opportunity and a little encouragement.

I feel responsible for my hives, but ultimately I am not.

They can abscond whenever they want.

-Right?

-Yep.

And typically do.

-And typically do, right?

And if you put yourself into that, what does that cause?

My first loss, I felt like I did something wrong.

But it learns -- You learn to become resilient, get over things, move forward with things, plan better, work harder, whatever that looks like for you.

But that piece was crazy for me.

-That's so crazy that you mentioned that, too, because if there's anything about farming that you learn really quickly is that loss happens almost every day.

-Yeah.

-Wow.

-Yeah.

-I think to Steve's earlier point, I never really thought about it, about the control part.

You know what I mean?

'Cause you think, and as a practitioner and a steward, that I'm in control of everything that's out here, but I've never looked at it in that context of, like, taking yourself out of the equation.

And I feel like, you know -- When he was saying that, I was thinking, you know, "As a farmer, I mean, you control nothing."

You know?

You don't control the market.

You don't control the weather.

You can only control what you can control.

Just like as a veteran, I can only control myself.

I cannot control how people perceive me.

And I think that's something that I think about all the time.

It's like, you know, that judgment part that we talked about earlier, I can't control how you judge me.

And I can tell you my story, and you can take it for how you want to take it.

And I think nature has a way of, um... -Humbling us.

-Oh, yeah.

Because, I mean, you -- The fact that you control nothing, to me, is one of the most humbling experiences.

The fact that you can be the best -- You can be the best beekeeper, have all, you know, the criteria, all the education and the hive swarms, you know, or I have a hurricane that comes in that I can't control, you know.

And so I think that, um, as Steve was talking, I was saying to myself, like, "Wow, I never thought about the control part, of taking yourself out of the equation," 'cause I feel like we always, as veterans, want to control everything around us, you know, 'cause you feel like when you have control, I mean, that's -- It's a really satisfying, you know, feeling.

But when you don't have control, there's a sense of, like, anxiety.

-You know, Davon, you talked about people judging you and stuff like that.

And we talked about how you were in school and we talked about how you turned to farming after your service, but we didn't talk about what happened from that transition.

Can you talk to me a little bit about Afghanistan and what happened during that time, as much as you're willing to share?

-Yeah.

Yeah.

So Afghanistan, it was -- It was wild.

You know, it was a lot different than what we trained for.

You know, being a reservist, you know, you're doing your one weekend a month, two weeks in the summer.

You know, we do have mobilization training, but I don't think we really understood the severity of being in the Helmand Province of Afghanistan.

You know, it was hell on Earth, you know?

I mean, you're talking IEDs everywhere.

And the day I got blown up, it was -- I never thought I would have got blown up.

You know, I never thought in my wildest -- I mean, that it would have been me.

And when that happened, it's like, my whole life just chaotically changed, you know?

And when I got back to the United States, it was that sense of, like, I identified as a college student.

That's all I knew, was, like, I'm supposed to be in college right now.

I'm not supposed to be in a war zone.

And so when I got back... and going through, you know, rehab with the Wounded Warrior Battalion [Sighs] it was that sense of, I was alone, you know.

And that's when those -- those walls start talking, those negative thoughts start creeping in.

And so, you know, my mother, who, you know, was there as a rock, you know, was kind of like, "Well, why don't you get back to school?"

And I think sometimes we need people to believe in our dreams more than we do.

And it was very hard, you know.

I mean, that transition from, you know, the war zone back to the classroom was challenging.

And then, you know, developing narcolepsy was another challenge.

But being in a rural community and being at a smaller institution, I mean, university, I mean, they rolled out the welcome mat.

I mean, anything that I needed, whether it's professors staying after class, working on weekends, I mean, they really made sure that my dream of finishing my education was something that I could obtain, you know.

And I think that goes back to that -- that sense of community that we talked about.

-Mm-hmm.

-You know?

As veterans, we don't walk alone.

And the more I shared my story, it seemed like it wasn't my burden to carry anymore.

And I feel like the community responded and was like, "We're gonna meet you where you are, and we're gonna take you, as you want to be this farmer, we're gonna provide every resource around you to be that farmer that you want to be."

A lot of the elder farmers have been very instrumental.

Like, they see me out there on the tractor trying to put roads in and they're all crooked.

You know, they're like, "Hey."

[ Laughter ] "Like, you can't keep looking back and drive at the same time," you know?

And so it's one of the things that, like, um -- The community has just supported me so much and I wouldn't be the person I am today, or the farmer, you know, without my community being there with me every step.

-And what I hear in that is collaboration.

Like, this, we can't do it alone.

You're not supposed to do it alone.

We're not supposed to walk in life alone anyway.

But this collaboration piece, when we're, like, non-competitive -- What is the goal?

So the goal for us is, don't kill yourself.

-Mm-hmm.

-It can be hard, but you've got to look at the things of, what's the reward and where's the ego, and how does that leave the ego at the door and support that person in the journey for themselves?

I love that story, man.

Those people came together around you and were able to, again, pour into you, and then you become the man that you are.

That's an incredible story.

-And I think, you know [Sighs] the one thing about veteran farmers is the fact that it's like the brotherhood you return back to, you know.

I think, you know, whether it's, you know, bees or, you know, training programs, it's like, you get this camaraderie that you left.

-Well, I got to give credit to my non-veteran farmer friends, who really step up and, um, really hold my hand a lot.

-Yeah.

And I think so.

I mean, you know, it's the farming community way of life.

-Yes.

-It's kind of that rural idyll of America.

Um, you know, when we drive out, if there's a break in the fence and the cows are out, you know, we call up our neighbor and say, "Hey, your cows are out.

We're trying to get them in."

And he would do the same thing if our pigs were out or something.

Um, you know -- A lot of veterans are -- They want to get into farming, but they're like, I can't afford 100 acres or 1,000 acres, or something like that," But it doesn't -- It doesn't take that, right?

-It doesn't take that.

-Unless you're getting into large-scale commodity crops, which I, for one, would not recommend unless you come from a family that has access to the equipment and infrastructure and land you need for large-scale commodity crops.

You can do a ton on an acre or 5 acres.

I mean, you can do a lot on 10 acres.

We really encourage people to find your niche, um, find a specialty crop, um, whatever, you know, whatever your -- your magic bean is in the agricultural community, and then do that really, really, really well.

-But I will say, Hives for Heroes and Heroes Honey would not be able to exist without the civilians.

And think about what we're talking about.

We're talking about a very small percentage of the portion of population that has served this country in that capacity.

-Yeah, yeah.

-Why would you cut out the rest of them when we're actually trying to assimilate back into society?

-Yes.

Thank you.

Isn't it about bringing people together?

-Yes.

-And can't we -- It's about community and bridging that gap and bringing the communities together.

-I believe that the transition can actually be a transformation.

And those are two different words.

We can transition back into society.

That's great.

But are you transforming yourself into a better version of yourself to support and lead others, right?

'Cause at the end of the day, Hives for Heroes plays with bees, we build leaders.

-Yeah.

-I love that.

Well, I want to thank you so much for sharing your stories with me and being so open.

And, um, I think what's really, really beautiful is, no matter whether you choose to raise pigs, goats, plants, uh, grapes, uh, keep the bees, I think there's growth in all of those things and there's peace to be had in everything.

And so I encourage everyone who's listening to get out there and find your peace, no matter what it is.

And so, Steve, Kara, Davon, thank you for being at LowCountry Acres.

I appreciate it.

-Thank you for the opportunity.

- There will be light There is a road Marching on Coming home