AfroPoP: The Ultimate Cultural Exchange

(jazzy music begins) (jazzy music continues) (jazzy music continues) (jazzy music ends) (hands clapping) - [Interviewer] How are you doing right now?

How are you feeling?

- Tired.

Traveling thing got me a little under it, but I'm still good.

- [Interviewer] Can you say where we are right now?

- We're in Italy with the Italians.

Very soulful, lots of good food, nice people.

They make you work hard though.

- [Interviewer] And talk to me about just the point in the tour that we're at and how you feel at this point in the tour.

- We're at the end of it and I'm a little worn out from the traveling.

That's about it.

That's what they pay you for really, getting there.

Music part's easy.

(upbeat music) - Roy was an old soul.

I don't think it was Roy's first time on this planet.

I would definitely put him up there on the Mount Rushmore of musicians.

- There are those amazing trumpet players that were like hallmarks in affecting the history and the trajectory of music and jazz in particular.

Roy Hargrove is one of those trumpet players.

- Somehow he was a throwback and a throw forward at the same time.

- The way he knew music, it's like he knew it so well.

He understood it.

He spoke music.

- He hit the bandstand like it was the last time he was gonna hit the bandstand.

When he got on the bandstand, he changed the life condition of everybody that was in that room.

- Roy documented the sound of our time.

Every great musician that we revere, that's what they did.

He truly embraced what we call jazz.

- Musicians and artists.

We really seek that other world, is this world that we are born into.

But this is not the real world.

This is not our world.

Our world is the world that that we get our music from.

That's the world that artists and musicians see.

(upbeat music) - Most of the artists in America are taken for granted.

Unless you're a movie star or something.

You got 30, countdown.

- [Crew] There you go.

And can you do me a favor and look towards Hollywood and then look back towards the camera.

- You finished You just got fired.

- I've known Roy since, I don't know, since I was 17 and he was 20 something like that.

Many, many years.

(upbeat music) - You were just calling me.

- It's a break.

- What the heck is going on?

- Ragman.

It's him.

It's all him.

All this, all that.

He's just stirring up.

He don't like you 'cause you make me more money than he do.

That's his problem.

I figured it out.

He jealous and he's threatened.

He gonna have to get over it.

He's just gonna have to get over it.

I told him that.

I was like, you gonna have to get over.

And you say that I'm allowing that I'm not allowing it.

I keep telling him to stop acting like that.

He's just ignoring me.

- Because he knows he has all the power in the relationship or I mean it feels like it.

- He's mad.

He mad.

- But we could work together if we were friends, we could.

He's gonna be blocking me trying to do my project.

- No he can't, he can't block (muted) 'cause it's me.

(upbeat music) - Hi Roy.

- Hey.

- Good to see you.

- You're gonna have to find a way to make this a little less please.

- [Crew] Okay.

For sure.

- No they can't.

No, no.

- He was a really like a father figure to a lot of us.

He was like a mentor.

Everybody that was in my circle anyway had that very kind of reverent attitude to him.

But at the same time he was somebody that you felt like was like a peer.

- And sat there the whole entire night.

(jazzy music) Yeah, it's gonna be called Rice Krispy Cake.

Hey, what happened to your guys?

They didn't come in.

- [Crew] They're being invisible like you asked.

- What guys?

- Oh, he's already here.

See, that's good work.

I'm proud of you.

We have learned of course.

(crowd cheering) (jazzy music) - I mean the guy could hear paint dry, he could just hear it, all of it and feel it.

When he stepped to the mic and played, you heard it coming from all the way back to the blues and you know the entire history of the music.

- My wife said, Sonny, did you hear that guy?

Boy he's really great.

This young guy.

See why don't you invite him to do Carnegie Hall?

And of course he was a sensation.

(upbeat music) - There's big band Roy, there's trio Roy, there's funk Roy sort of dissonant fusion Roy.

There's hip hop Roy.

- I mean, just think about the way he played ballads.

That's real (muted).

- [Crew] You told me you were a scientist.

- Science of sort.

Well music is a science, you know, I think most, some people say that music is a art form.

I disagree.

I think music is a, what the Sufis called it.

The divine science.

Because one thing about music, you can't actually see it.

You can't touch it, you can't smell it and you can't see it.

The only way it comes to you is through your ears and you know when you feel it.

(jazzy music) - The last part of the bridge.

- In 1988, I helped arrange some gigs in Texas with Winton Marcellus and Winton called over to the performing arts high school in Dallas to ask if he could come over and do an impromptu clinic for the kids.

(crowd cheering) (jazzy music) And he expressed his opinion that this little kid was really gonna be a great talent.

- He was fantastic.

He was playing lead trumpet and he was playing the solos and he played with unbelievable clarity and feeling.

And he was abuliant and diffusive.

(jazzy music) - April of 1987 word had gotten back to Philly that there was this young kid in Dallas that was just, he was gonna be the next dude.

- I met him in the hallway at Arts Magnet High School, 1985.

I was an incoming freshman and I'm sure all the sophomores, juniors and seniors were trying to figure out who was who, what was what.

And he was one of the people who were like, you don't worry about it.

You just, you know, you don't have to go to all the classes.

I was like, oh, that's what we doing, okay.

And then I found out we had a class together and that's when we really kind of figured out we had the same sense of humor.

And that's what bonded us.

Our sense of humor.

Our spirits met first through laughter and the world was a private joke between us and God.

- It was like the spring of 1976.

We always had these like fierce jazz band competitions.

And this trumpet player could've been about what, eight, nine years old that was really playing.

And this is what guy won best trumpet soloist elementary school.

Man we was in like high school.

Look at this little kid, man.

- We got all ones by the way, which is a good thing.

That means perfect.

And I read the comment sheets and they were all going off about my trumpet solo.

And it was only like eight bars.

(jazzy music) - I met Roy back and when I think he was 17 years old, I had a concert in a club in Fort Worth, Texas.

And Larry says, it would be great if you could let him sit in on something.

I'm thinking, wait man, he's a 17-year-old kid.

I've got like pros up here.

I had no idea how amazing he was.

(jazzy music) And it was like lightning.

- He was not afraid to play jazz or what they call jazz, but he played it like someone who is coming from today, someone who's a product of the hip hop generation, R&B generation of the 90s.

- He was only 17, but he played like he was 45.

- I knew of his name and his reputation all throughout my high school career.

You can go back to King Oliver and Armstrong in the beginning of what we know as jazz trumpet at the beginning of apprentices and put Roy at the end.

(crowd cheering) - He had a huge impact on me.

I was young, I was like 18, 19 years old trying to be a cultured adult in New York City, that he was not someone that you could be impartial to when he was present.

(jazzy music) And I'm, you know, we met like saying hello, but I was also kind of like intimidated, you know, because I was like, this dude is real, like the real thing.

And then there was one night at the Blue Note like he played this solo and he went by the side of the stage and just leaned down.

And he stayed that way for a while.

And I remember feeling like there was a lot going on with him as a person.

Like there was a, like all of that fullness of his plan was coming from a very deep place emotionally.

(jazzy music) - You know, Roy was quiet about what he felt inside.

It wasn't until later our conversations later got a lot deeper.

You know?

So I got a lot more insight into him.

(jazzy music) - A lot of jazz musicians just make you seem like you're in like a secret club and you speak the secret language that only if you know the language you can understand it.

And Roy had a way of playing all those things.

He was just as technical as anybody.

But he also knew how to talk to people musically that didn't understand that.

And that's why he was a connection.

He was a bridge.

- 1996.

Ragman wanted me to be with him on this Cresol thing.

And that's when, you know, I first got introduced me to Chicho Valdez and Anga Diaz and Alta Guito.

(jazzy music) And it was, I guess during the Cresol time, that's when we really, really began to bond.

And we talk about a whole lot of things, you know, music, you know.

But mostly we was, we would really be talking spirituality man.

(jazzy music) - In 1995, I went to Cuba for the first time by invitation of Chucho Valdes.

And I remember being just blown away by the amount of virtuosity that was taking place among the musicians that I heard there.

You know, the last person that had been to Cuba that was American was Dizzy Gillespie.

So they kind of brought me there in the shoes of Dizzy.

- The next thing I know where Ragman told us that off the record got nominated for Grammy, we really got flack from the quote Latin community for that record.

I mean because they was trying to say that Roy, how could he have win a Latin Grammy?

He can't even speak Spanish man.

I said, wait a minute man.

I said, you know, if you call yourself Latin then you should be saying e pluribus unum.

You know what I'm saying?

- But you know, they came up with a Latin Grammy after that year, they had a whole thing so that that wouldn't happen again.

(jazzy music) I had a good time, man.

I am not very comfortable really like, you know, talking about these things, you know, I'm doing it for you 'cause you think it's important.

But I don't know, you know, I've been living on dialysis for the past maybe 10, 15 years or so.

Maybe more than that by now.

But yeah, it's not easy.

But you do what you have to do.

Try to survive.

That's it.

- [Interviewer] Why haven't you gotten a kidney transplant?

- Mostly has to do with time, you know?

'Cause it involves having to, basically I have to quit working for maybe six months or so like that.

And I can't afford to do that right now.

But eventually I'll do something.

- [Interviewer] Do you wanna get a kidney transplant?

- I don't know.

Right now, I'm on the fence about it.

Yeah.

Can we talk about something else please?

Please?

(jazzy music) - [Interviewer] Yeah, a couple of the younger musicians that we've interviewed talk about how you come to this, to them to teach them music.

- Well, I mean, if you can sing it pretty much you can play it, you should be able to anyway.

That goes back to what I was saying earlier, you know, having that, that connection with your instrument that it's like all you have to do is start to play it.

And whatever that you hear is coming out.

- Roy had perfect pitch and had incredible understanding of harmony.

- Perfect pitch is basically if you play a key on the piano or any instrument, you could tell what that note is and he was able to to hear what that was.

And he could play several notes on the piano.

He could tell you what it is.

As a musician, you're supposed to be able to hear qualities.

Of course major minor diminish all his musical terminology.

But he could hear all that stuff in between.

- It starts with A and E. And the bridge is G flat to D flat.

A flat in the middle, A flat G the second time.

You cool?

- You know it?

- You don't like it, you don't want to play it.

- No, I don't know it.

- While Roy was never a teacher at a university or at a school, he was one of the greatest jazz educators this music ever saw.

- I know a hundred young musicians that used to go to Smalls just to see Roy play.

- And he always knew how to make it interesting.

He always knew what song to play at the jam session to invite everyone in.

- This cat would play till five, six o'clock in the morning every night.

It's like, dude, go to bed.

(jazzy music) - That's one thing I love about Roy too.

He didn't care who wrote.

He just wants to play, he always just wanted to play.

So he would go to any jam session.

Doesn't matter how good or bad the band is, you know what I mean?

Sometimes make me feel bad 'cause I sit there and be like, I ain't playing with them people.

And then Roy comes from the bathroom where the trumpet like where did you come from?

(jazzy music) - His in person, his presence at jam sessions teaching people tunes, being a part of the lifeblood of the music.

Always being there.

So I think he looms large in that span of time as the advocate for the music, as a player of the music, as somebody who brought different cultures to the music, his own virtuosic playing and the clarity of his playing.

And he has his younger musicians that are disciples and love his playing and are influenced by it, who are gonna be the face of the music for years to come.

- He played music the way I always felt being a young Black musician.

You know, you accept all music, all Black music.

It's all Black music.

- I gotta hear that ride cymbal and some eighth notes.

That's what I believe in, ride cymbal and eighth notes.

Ride cymbal is a spang-a-lang.

Dance, spang-a-lang, spang-a-lang, spang-a-lang.

And every musician has a certain way that they play their eighth notes, which sits in with, with the ride cymbal pattern.

And that's there.

It's kinda like your personality.

I think that's probably why I like Freddie Hubbard 'cause he plays with the drums.

- Playing at New Morning with Roy was definitely one of the highlights of my musical career.

One of my favorite experiences playing music.

And I was watching the video of us playing the first song.

And I'm nervous.

I'm nervous, you know, and during the piano solo, I'm watching myself and I'm like, ah man, I need to relax a little bit.

And then I hear Roy real softly just go spang-a-lang, spang-a-lang, spang-a-lang.

And I immediately start to play what he's, you know, singing to me.

And not many musicians know how to guide you like that.

And immediately the music starts feeling much better.

- I like playing with my band.

It's nice to hear them grow and continue to develop as artists.

I'm actually very, very impressed with our pianist Japanese fellow Tarataka Ono.

He's soaking it up like a sponge.

You know, it's hard to teach cats how to swing, that thing that you can't describe that's in the music that makes people move.

It's hard to describe that to another musician if they don't already know what it is, you know?

But he seems to be catching on well.

I just keep telling him, I'll just be like, man, put that in the pocket.

You know?

And he knows what that means.

Put it in the pocket, man.

It doesn't matter if it's not in the pocket, there's no point in it.

- He'd play some obscure original composition of his that would be quite brainy to some.

And then he'd go right into rock with you and make everybody just be oh, you know?

And it's like a setup.

(jazzy music) - Tyler Taka Uno on the piano.

Amin Salim on the bass.

Evan Sherman out of Italy.

saxophone Alto, Justin Robinson.

Thank you.

We love you.

(Roy speaking in French) - Yeah, I mean he's here every night, you know, just kind of trying to push us in a different way.

Like showing us different tunes.

Sometimes sitting at the piano, sometimes humming the tunes.

Playing the tunes on the trumpet.

He's just very generous with the music.

You know, I feel like one of his things that he says is like, you know, you give to the music, the music will kind of take care of you.

- They have a different type of appreciation for a person who is in the arts in Europe.

- America's a very diverse place, but there's something going on that doesn't make art a priority.

And I don't know, I don't know what that is.

They have a more receptive audience in Europe.

I think in America it's more about like how successful, how popular you are, how much traction do you have in a given moment.

- Getting there can be sometimes very bothersome.

You know, you gotta deal with security people.

And I had this one guy, he put his whole hand in my nut sack and grabbed it, you know, and it's crazy 'cause they tell you they're gonna do it.

He's like, I'm gonna put my whole hand in your nutsack and grab it.

You know?

And you have to be okay with it.

You know what I'm saying?

Sometimes when I go to the airport, I need therapy afterwards.

- [Interviewer] The show's at midnight.

Are you gonna do the sound check at 10: 30?

- I think so.

Though, I don't know if I'm gonna be there.

All right, I'm gonna go change my shirt.

(jazzy music) Well listen to the story about a man named Jed Oil that is Black gold Texas Tea First thing you know, Jed's getting there Kinfolk said Jed move away from there Said California is a place to be Loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly Hills that is Swimming pool with the movie stars.

I'm stopping.

Just need like a quick break.

You know, I don't walk very good.

You guys don't want any ice cream.

That ice cream I had was the good as (muted).

The first time I came out here.

It was 1989, a group called The Generation Sextet.

No, it's still the same.

It hasn't changed at all.

Actually we came one year with the Generations group and Jeff Keser, he knew Miles and he introduced me to him.

So he asked me if I wanted to meet Miles.

And I was like, I didn't believe it, you know, of course I didn't think he really knew him.

But then he called him and was like, hey man, Miles, I want you to introduce you to this trumpet player.

And we went here to the Brufani and knocked on Miles's door and his valet answered and let us in.

He asked if we wanted some tea or something.

And he told the guy to get us some tea.

And he was like, the glasses are dirty.

He said, well go wash 'em.

We had some ice tea, took a picture with him and then we left.

That was my Miles Davis experience.

But you know, I have to say, when I first saw him laying there, you know, my mouth was on the floor.

I was just like, I couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe I was actually seeing him in person.

He had that type of aura, you know, it was like really strong.

I remember the night when I went to see him perform when he came off stage and got in the car and drove away.

You could see about maybe three miles of people following his car as it drove.

That's how strong his thing was.

I mean, everybody wanted to just see him.

He had that type of thing.

- [Interviewer] What did he say to you when he met him?

- Oh, he just said, you know, I heard of you.

You know, I heard you're supposed to be a bad (muted).

They got a, in the middle of all of this, they got like a hip hop story.

I think that's it.

Yeah.

Smooth Kicks.

My father, he was the type of guy that, you know, he would go out and buy these records every weekend and people would come to our house to see what recordings we had so they would know what to get.

You know, he always knew what was gonna be the next big thing.

Yes, I'm celebrity, celebrity here.

Not really.

I need me some celebrity money.

This is the spot though for Perusia where everybody gets their kicks.

Ha-ha.

That was like a pun sort of.

(upbeat music) - And it was interesting to me to see like people starting to dress like Roy.

You know, I saw kids like wanting to cut their hair like Roy and dress like him, or his mannerisms on the bandstand.

- And I'll never forget it changed my life.

Roy came in there and he had on sneakers and some overalls, t-shirt, a hat, you know.

And the whole band was just like that.

I've never seen a jazz band.

First of all, a all Black jazz band.

Young Black dudes dress like the way I dress.

From what I knew, if you play jazz, you gotta wear a suit.

Like jazz comes with a dress code for most people.

And Roy completely, I always call him the Allen Iverson of jazz.

- What Allen Iverson brought to the NBA Roy Hargrove brought to jazz without question.

You know, he was certainly the first person I ever saw in the jazz community wear Air Jordans with a suit.

- This is like the little hip hop joint in the middle of Perusia.

You know, they got stuff like, look behind you.

Look at that.

That what is that thing that's like, wow, is that a grasshopper?

I remember one of the first tour's drummer, Adris Muhammad was there.

(jazzy music) And he had a pinky ring.

Big ass diamond on it.

We were on the train, he was counting his beads, Muslim.

And he told me that at one point he had stopped playing and became a shepherd.

He was out there in mountains with sheep.

Like real.

And I'm like, what?

This is Adris Muhammad, you know, he was the drummer for Hair.

Remember Hair?

Yeah.

He was also Curtis Mayfield's drummer, you know, but he also played jazz too, he's from New Orleans.

And I used to bug out on him 'cause he'd be like, every now and then he'd come out with some stylish, like one time he had some purple leather pants on.

And I said, what?

Hold up.

You caught on purple leather with a diamond pinky ring.

(jazzy music) - 80.

- Really?

What size do you have?

- Me?

10.

- I can bring you the size and we can try.

- Make sure I got the money first.

Hey Elian, you wanna buy me some shoes?

- Which ones?

- They're 80.

- 80?

- That's cheap.

- Yeah.

- I moved a size for you.

- Oh boy!

It's a day in the life, you know, it's what I do.

A lot of times I go into a town, if I have time, I'll go walk around and go shopping and buy something to wear for the gig.

It's kind of exciting.

Bye bye.

I want some more ice cream.

That ice cream was good as - You want more?

- I think so.

- [Interviewer] Let's go to the ice cream store I love that.

(jazzy music) - It's the best ice cream I've ever had in my life.

Besides Bluebell of course.

Which they don't have it in Texas.

You guys okay?

No ice cream for you.

That's okay.

How you guys doing?

Okay, you can stop filming me now for a minute.

Just give it a break.

I was on a tour with my quintet and I started getting this pain in my back, lower back area and it was really, really kind of, you know, minor at first.

And then it started to be kind of heavy, you know?

And I didn't know really what was wrong.

You know, I had this thing where I was going to the bathroom a lot just before that.

And you know, you ignore these type of things when you shouldn't.

Of course I did 'cause I was just trying to do the gig, you know, everything for the gig, trying to make the gig.

You ignore (muted) and then it comes back on you.

You know?

That ice cream was one hell of an experience, strangely enough.

I think it that the music has something to do with it.

- The music in the store?

- No, I think that the fact that it's next to the festival grounds, it's next to the hotel where the musicians stay.

It's kind of in between.

Like on this side you have the Brussario and there's a Rosetta and they're both filled with musicians.

And I think that that vibe is like kind of what makes the ice cream good.

It's wild because there's a pizza place in New York that's right above the Village Vanguard.

And I swear to God, that's the best pizza I've ever had.

And for some reason I think it's because of music is coming up and making the food better.

I don't know.

Music's powerful, man.

It has a lot of great vibes.

And just the fact that all of those artists are right there and over here kind of makes this little in between area nice.

I'm just coming from my gig, you know, and I felt like it was monumental 'cause I was feeling terrible yesterday.

I didn't know if I was gonna make it.

I could barely stand up.

My legs was giving out on me and (muted).

Then when we started playing, something changed.

My body came back.

I was worn out from the traveling here and yesterday I wasn't sure.

I was like, am I gonna make it?

And the music started and everything changed.

Happens a lot to me.

- [Interviewer] Playing makes you feel better.

- Yeah.

I mean, something about the music, you know, it's like magical.

You know?

Once we start and the first note kicks off, I feel like I'm having an out of body experience.

(jazzy music) You never know what kind of musical situation you might be in, where you might have to play anything.

So you have to be able to deal with it, you know?

That means you have to be a complete player.

Especially now that means you can't get into these dividing lines that, you know, people use 'cause they need it, of course.

But as a musician you kinda have to ignore those lines and just go straight for the entire world and attack.

But I have to say, if you're playing jazz, that's pretty much the quickest way to be able to be that complete musician 'cause you have every, you got all the elements there, you know, you got rhythm, you got harmony, even you have style.

(jazzy music) - [Interviewer] So what happened tonight?

- Well, we got rained out, you know, the thunder and the lightning was too much for them.

But I had an idea and I was like, well I know they got a club in town somewhere with some instruments in it, so why don't we just go and play there?

So my quintet and I, we were all sitting there and we decided to go to the club and hit.

(jazzy music) And all of the people that were at the festival that could fit in there showed up and had a great old time.

I mean, it was a little loud and kind of intimate, very close.

And the piano was outta tune.

But, you know, that's all right.

We still had pretty good time.

You know, it's important for me to represent the music no matter what.

And we've traveled all the way here.

We might as well play something.

You know, I believe in that.

I believe in, you know, the people getting a chance to experience the music if we're here, you know, any way we can.

And that's just kind of how it happened.

(jazzy music) - [Interviewer] Tell us about your love life.

- What about it?

Girls, they come and go in my life.

They don't stick around often because my life, my travel thing is not steady.

My daughter's mom stayed for a while.

She was very sweet though I couldn't get along with her 'cause I was a mess.

You know, that's kind of pretty much sums it up.

I find a nice girl and then I'm a mess and they don't stick around.

My life won't allow it.

But someday I will have it and I'll keep her close to me and won't let anybody get involved so they can ruin it for me.

(jazzy music) - There was a point in time where Roy and I kind of lost touch.

Not 'cause anything happened, but just 'cause our careers went separate ways, right around the late 90s when he started The RH Factor.

- The 90s were a moment where there was kind of all this anger that just towards this expression of music was like, I didn't understand at that time.

I still don't understand it.

It's also like a lot of this culpability put on this artistic expression.

It's like the reason that this is bad is because of these Negroes over here talking the way that they do or expressing themselves the way that they do in there.

Roy was not that way.

Roy was like, I'm finding the beauty everywhere.

- I mean, he really started beginning to spread out, you know?

And when during this time I was hang with Roy, I got to meet some people of his, I guess his generation age group that yo dog, I mean like, I just blew up man.

- DeAngelo was in a Noah's Ark position and on his short list was Roy Hargrove.

Now mind you, this is 1996, so we're just, we're talking about voodoo, like voodoo wasn't even a name yet.

So you know, we spent all of 96 just like trying to fill each other's musical IQ out, destroying everything that we've known Black music to be up until that point.

He always spoke of Roy Hargrove.

And in my mind I'm thinking like you're trying to initiate someone in the team that's like suit and tie.

Like really?

- We saw his genius right away.

DeAngelo really didn't give him much direction.

We were just, we all just kind of asked him like, what are you hearing on the song?

- Watching Roy in real time figure, plot and plan and execute.

He did it in such a way that I can't explain.

It was a trance.

He's like looking at the speaker.

Then when the song ended, he's like, okay, so that was, it was 16 at the top and then there's four bars and then another eight and another 16 where, okay, I'm ready.

- And we just fell in love with him soon.

That is like the first note.

- He pretty much did a linear just long seven minute idea.

- He says, all right, I'm gonna harmonize that.

- When his first track goes down, it just sounds like just little scats here and there.

It does, doesn't really sound like anything.

And then once he's finished layering, it's like this, you know, this amazing horn arrangement.

- And that's when I knew that Roy Hargrove was not mere mortal.

- The Voodoo album was a big moment to hear like Roy harmonizing with himself like that, that was a big moment.

I think that Roy was almost immediately like resistant to like whole nostalgia, movement in jazz, you know, revisiting the Halian days.

Him being on a DeAngelo album was like, 'cause what could you say?

It was like, you know, this is music.

You didn't think that it was something that went and would've participated in, certain people in that world.

Just kind of kept this very stiff arm of distance out.

Ultimately it was to their loss.

- You know, I didn't like it.

And your jazz musician is very difficult.

It's not gonna evolve out of hip hop musician.

But we had a deep conversation about it.

I said, man, you know, you can play it.

It's hard to keep faith in playing.

And he said, look man, you know, I like playing for Black people, man.

People are not coming to this form of music.

You know, this is just what this is.

And I can't just be isolated like that.

And I respect it.

(jazzy music) - I'm on one of his albums called Art Groove, RH Factor.

- [Interviewer] And what song are you on on RH Factor?

- Poetry.

That song poetry was monumental to our relationship too.

In fact, I was very intimidated because I can't read music.

I don't even know if I hit the right notes when I sing.

I just know how I feel and I express the way I feel.

Yeah, it's intimidating to play with such a gifted musician.

Even though we were great friends.

And I remember him calling me into the studio.

He said, just freestyle it, just whatever you feel, just be an instrument.

I was petrified.

The lyrics hurt.

I give these tears as an offering for joy in return because tears bring joy.

Try not to sweat the past.

Make the sweetest last.

Cause where moments of joy are hard to find.

Be happy when you can, but sad is necessary.

I know it seems sometimes you're never getting there, but it's okay is fail.

I didn't remember what I said or what I did when I left.

Went to the lounge to lounge a little.

When I came back into the control room, he had listened to it and I was a little nervous and he said, you sang real pretty.

I didn't know my singing was pretty.

- It's gotta go.

I'm tired of it, it's making me sick.

- Me too.

- Yeah, me too.

You're doing it.

So stop doing it.

- When you're finished, let me know.

- Throwing insults around and all of that.

Talking about what already done happened, that got to go.

Now you, you tell me what you need.

What do you need from her?

- So you knew his manager?

- Yeah.

Ragman.

- [Interviewer] Yeah, Ragman, tell me about your experiences?

- You sure?

- Yeah, please.

- Okay.

Okay.

Well, because now since I now, or since I got fired, I can't see.

- I mean, I know how people feel about Larry.

- [Larry] Trying to talk to you is the same as her.

- No it's not.

- Yes it is.

I'm trying to tell you.

I'm trying to tell you> - I'm listening.

- Hi, I'm Larry Clothier, I'm Roy Hargrove's manager.

- And stop interrupting me.

I'm getting (muted) outta here.

And you can go (muted), I'm serious.

There's too much of this I've been doing with her for weeks and I can't take much more of it.

Any little thing in this business that we need needs to be delineated and has to be clear with a contract.

None of this is coming.

- I think I introduced Larry to Roy, but I didn't know, I didn't know Larry.

Larry was not a manager then.

Larry was a road manager, then next time I saw them, Larry was Roy's manager.

So you know, I initially discouraged Roy from that.

- I remember thinking, what high school junior has a manager?

I was taught early to be wary and cynical of all managers.

- We gotta get past is all the lying that's been going on and the (muted).

- Roy made it very clear to me at one point that that was his choice for management and that was his business.

And once he told me basically, this is what it is, step off.

I had to step back.

- Larry was extremely effective, in my opinion at what he did.

He wanted to promote Roy, but as of yet, Roy was perhaps still a little young to really draw.

So he put a group of veteran players around him.

- You stop this too, Roy, just tell me to go (muted) yourself Roy.

- Nah, I'm good on him.

Didn't care for him and how he treated people.

- You wanna hear me?

- You just looking yelling at me, man.

- Well, back up.

Then you stop this.

- I ain't doing (muted) to you.

- Larry was a lot more than a manager for Roy.

I mean, he was a booking agent, a manager.

You know, he helped him start his corporation.

I don't know how much of that is actually Roy's, but I guess he stood in as a lawyer.

He was like, everything, you know, so Larry wore all the hats.

Roy's band was one of the most working bands in the history of the music, you know, especially for my generation.

So Larry did his job in that way.

- At no point ever in Roy's life do I know what they talked about.

I know what I think I saw.

- I know that things have not gone well in the past.

- He just said we're not gonna talk about the past.

- But I wanna see how can we move forward?

- Forward?

I can't imagine.

Give me an idea.

- There were certain things he wasn't capable of handling, you know, to be totally honest, he wasn't good with money.

You know, if Roy had money in his pocket, Roy was gonna have some clothes or a pair of Air Jordans or whatever, you know, everybody has speculations about what was spent.

What was that?

I don't know.

And I've heard so many things, so many people were mad at the management but you're not there.

You don't know what somebody's situation is.

- Okay, I'll put it this way.

I remember when I first hooked up with John Hammond at Columbia Records, I remember a call, he said, you might want to think, think really think hard about being in this profession.

Because he actually told me this profession is about exploitation.

You have to know how to manage your manager.

Everything has to be managed.

Right?

You need a manager.

- But there's a way of doing things to keep people on the hook and keep people just, you know, confused, you know, enough, you know, to get what you want out of him and then leave him, you know, still wondering what the hell happened after.

You know, I had no idea when I'd be coming home sometimes.

And you ask about the money, and every time you ask about money, you go, oh God.

- Larry was like a surrogate father, I think to Roy.

And so he really appeared to watch out for him and to help him.

- In order for me to go, no, no, no, no.

Listen.

- I'm not listening.

I'm not listening, because I want say something.

Look man, all that aggression and (muted) is not cool.

And you wonder why people don't want to (muted) with you.

That's why.

Because what people know, that come to me and ask me for (muted), they asked me like, can you play?

I don't wanna deal with your manager because he's a (muted) (muted).

- Right.

Right.

- I actually got terminated from the band, from the Sextet, you know?

And like Art Blake used to say, man, Mr. Roy Hargrove band, not the post office.

- There was some issues in the band and I was gonna leave anyway, but I was asked to leave a little earlier.

- Everybody knows Ragman.

Here's the thing I want you to understand, sweetheart.

Nobody left Roy's band because of Roy.

- Personally, I got fired because I was trying to express to Roy some of the things that I thought he might've been missing.

But when I told Roy about these things, he went back and told management, hey bro, you can't tell everybody everything.

This is for you.

But, you know, that was the lesson learned, right?

- I'm not a racist, I'm a whole lot other things, but that ain't why you be hard pressed to find anybody that would tell me I'm a racist.

- Please.

Can you guys stop this?

- I don't think so.

- It's just so ugly.

- This is all (muted).

I didn't even talk to you about any of this, I didn't know anything about any of this.

- Larry, it's because you keep bringing up the past.

- [Interviewer] So does he own all of your publishing?

- No, he don't own (muted), I own all my (muted).

Larry's not who you think he is.

He's not one of the (muted) that try to steal from you.

He's a very, very honest guy.

- Really?

- Stand up all the way.

- [Interviewer] I've heard from other musicians that he is like ganging them out and stuff.

- They bull (muted).

They're full of (muted) They're full of (muted).

He's never cheated anyone, he's not like that.

Man, Ragman is one of the most straightest (muted) ever met in my life.

- [Interviewer] Is that why you like him?

- I love him.

He's been like a father to me, you know, serious.

He looks out for me in ways that you cannot believe.

You know, I damn near went to jail.

That (muted) came through for me.

Got me outta that.

You dig?

I was facing it.

Ragman came through, pulled me right outta that.

You dig?

So I don't give a (muted) say what you want.

He might be a asshole, but he's a straight (muted).

- Oh man.

There's so many dirty tricks to get played with creative people across the board, across the world.

A lot of rats riding into the gates of heaven on the backs of the ox.

Pharaoh is always making a plan of some sort.

Him and his counselors.

But he never really wins.

It's not up to him.

Beautiful people will find ways to be beautiful, even in a brutal world.

If all the Pharaoh can do is to be brutal, well then he lost already.

- So you win Larry, you win.

- I didn't win anything.

- You have brought me to my knees.

- I didn't win, I didn't win anything.

- Are you happy about that?

You have the power.

- No, I'm not.

I am not.

This has been a nightmare to me.

- It's sad that I didn't get access, but you know, you can pull BN footage off the internet 'cause they post it every year.

I have Herbie and Roy performing.

- I'm done with this.

- See what I'm saying?

Doesn't talk well.

You know, I don't know what to do with this guy.

He just walks out.

- That was something else, man.

- And it's all on film.

And he let us do it.

- He let us do it.

- And he, you know, he's stupid because he looked like a fool.

- My point is, you being alive, wandering around the earth, playing as if, as if Miles Dave was still alive, wandering around the earth playing or Dizzy Gillespie was still alive.

You know what I mean?

And so like, that's what I'm trying to show people.

Like, he's here right now.

Don't miss him.

You know what I mean?

That's what I'm saying.

What's your perspective as an artist on all these Black artists dying without wills and the position that it puts their families in?

- Yeah, it's a difficult one.

- The way they kind of program you in this industry is like, you take it when you get it, you know, might not come again.

- But it also speaks to this environment that's around art and creativity.

Like this kind of very cold clinical business ecosystem around something that is very nuanced and fluid.

You know, if you are an artist, if you are really an artist, it's not just something you do.

It's who you are.

It's how you live.

Some people are more about giving and other people are more about taking.

So the takers are seem to be very keen on making sure that all of the the T's are crossing the I's are dotted.

Because that's how they get through in life.

And the givers is just kind of like, you know, I have what I need, so I don't need to guard the cave or all of the gold in it.

You know, not because I don't value gold or, but I'm not here for the gold.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm here for something else.

These are things that somebody created kind of a moment between them and the universe.

Now this got all of this like 33%, oh belongs to this person and we signed you to this.

So we get to that, we exploit it, blah, blah, blah.

Because that thing is run by people who, who don't really value the art beyond what they know it produces in the marketplace.

And if it didn't, then people wouldn't even be there at all.

Like at all.

- [Interviewer] Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

It happens so often that there's more to it than just people simply overlooking it.

- Or like, oh, it's these kooky artists.

They're just reckless.

They're irresponsible.

You know, indulgent.

It's something else going on.

You know, because these people are not stupid and it's like people fighting over a dead person's belongings.

It's just kind of, I mean, I get it, but there's a kind, there's a ignobility to it to say the least, you know, it's just a very ignoble act.

You know, we can't figure out what to do with it.

Like give it to a charity, but like to claim it for yourself to, you know, it's just weird.

It's really weird.

- I put it this way, sister.

You asked me that controversial question.

A person like Roy Hargrove in this artistry could have at least passed away.

A guy passed away a transition with, at least with the apartment that he had on the Lower East Side.

At least a little house outside of New York.

I mean, not no big fancy house, ma'am.

A little two three bedroom house to where he got a little basement.

He can work on his music.

And at least, at least a quarter of a million dollars a day.

- [Interviewer] And why do you think he didn't have that when he died?

- Because of the, because of the lack of creativity of management.

In fact, ma'am, you can put all that (muted) in your movie.

I don't give a (muted).

- [Interviewer] Thank you, great.

Do you have anything else to add?

- No, that's about it.

To be honest ma'am, I'm kind of pissed at it.

Okay, cut this camera off.

Don't get too controversial dawg.

To be honest, I'm kind of at it, man.

See what I'm saying?

These are creative ways to deal with a artist.

Man, we ain't, don't get me started, ma'am.

We ain't, we, you know, do more than pick cotton, you know, why does all this artists, you know, work to death.

If anybody else you interview come real like that, I'd be surprised.

Now I'm finished.

- I've always kind of been into the poetic stuff, you know, even besides music, when I was in high school, my English teacher pulled me aside and turned me on to people like Wordsworth, you know, and Henry David Thoreau, cats like that, you know?

So, you know, when I write songs, I'm thinking about this type of poetic nature.

So it all makes sense and it has like a beauty to it.

That cat Emerson, what's his name?

Yeah.

Dope.

Loved his stuff.

The tiger burning bright, you know, that's that thing you keep reaching for, but you can't quite ever get it.

It's in music, you know.

(jazzy music) - [Interviewer] Was it a long travel day to get here?

- [Roy] Yeah.

And then we had to play that night.

- [Interviewer] Do you normally travel and play in the same day?

- [Roy] Sometimes.

Not all the time.

Usually we get, you know, a break.

- [Interviewer] How many times have you had to do dialysis on this tour?

- I don't remember how many, but there's been a few of them every other day.

- [Interviewer] Do you remember what cities you've done it in so far, this tour?

- No.

- I became aware of Roy's health issues shortly after they started to occur.

He was only 30.

- We've seen Roy's physical morphing and we didn't know what to think.

What was it, a habit, like is this Larry?

- I knew there was kidney problems.

He was in and out of the hospital the whole time.

- Man, I just don't feel well.

But I'm getting better.

Sorry.

- He never complained.

That was the thing.

He never complained.

But I knew him and I watched his mannerisms.

I could tell that he was not feeling well.

You know, you always heard a lot of rumors about Roy.

And one thing I will say is like a lot of times people thought Roy was a certain way and he wasn't.

It was like, he just didn't feel like being bothered.

So he would create a space where people would not bother him so he could be at peace.

Very, very smart guy.

- It's not a bad thing.

Just gotta work a little harder for it, you know, you might have to travel a little further to get to it, but once you get there, it's really beautiful.

The oyster comes the pearl thing, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I mean, look at this, this is gorgeous.

- There were times when Roy first got sick, because I was on that tour where Roy would be so sick to me and Sherman Herby just about had to carry him to the stage and to the gig.

- You know, I started telling my manager about the pain I was having.

And of course, you know, he's like, well, you know, I had a lot of problems with drugs and so he figured that it was something to do with that.

Just kind of wrote it off.

Didn't even really think much of it.

And he was telling, you know, doctors that it was coming around, hey, no, he'll be all right.

You know, he just has to let it pass or whatever.

Anyway, his pain got to be so bad that, you know, I told my bass player, I was like, yo, somebody's gotta take me to the hospital because I can't deal with it.

So he threatened Larry.

He told him, he's like, look, if you don't take him to the hospital, I'm gonna kick your (muted) right now.

- You know, Roy had protection, he had protection from us.

At that time, we were not going to let anybody (muted) over Roy or hurt him.

And I knew I wasn't.

- They took me to hospital and checked me out.

Turns out that I had like a, some type of kidney problem.

They decided to send me to a kidney hospital where they had to do an operation on me that involved puncturing both sides.

Both kidneys and letting out all the bad fluid that was in me.

At least to say it was very painful.

And I was screaming, it was a mess.

- He was struggling with like a birth defect.

You know, he had the flap that goes from the bladder into the kidney.

It went both ways on him.

And that ended up hurting his kidneys.

- I stayed there for like a month.

It took that long for all of the bad fluid to come out.

And I don't know, it took maybe about a year before they finally put me on dialysis.

And it was kind of like, you know what they say?

What was that?

Frank Lacey was telling me about this thing called the Saturn returns, where, you know, you have your big test of life.

It was kind of like that for me because it was like, you know, either you live or you die.

- Saturn, at its farthest point, I think 31 years between the age of 26 to like 31, 32, is basically what a human being is really becoming an adult.

If you don't learn the lesson of what you about, what you didn't learn is gonna hurt you in the future.

- I can't imagine what pain he was going through and what that's like to sit in a chair for eight hours where you're getting your blood transfused several times a week.

And again to, to get on stage and perform and transform people's life conditions through your music.

And then to go to a club after that and to be an educator for the next generation of musicians that was, in my opinion, a musical prophet.

- Trying very hard to make my tears here That's quite impossible I'm still in love with you You happen one day Wait, you happen one day And the month will be made for a while I try to smile But can I play the part without my heart Behind the smile Ah, I forgot the last phrase.

You know, it is like, I try to learn all the words to the song because if you know the words and you can play the melody.

True.

You know, so I tell this another thing.

I tell the young players when they learn the standards, it's important to know the lyrics too.

Because then you can really play the melody right.

But it's not easy to find that you gotta do your research.

You know, you gotta go to like the Broadway show where it was written, you know, and find out who was a, some of these songs are really like corny, you know?

That's the one thing, the best thing about people like Miles Davis, you know, they take these corny melodies and they make it their own and make it so slick.

You know, Miles Davis and Nat King Cole, Shirley Horn, she's probably one of my favorite outta the interpreters Shirley Horn and Carmen McRae to really know how to deliver the song, the vehicle.

Shirley Horn.

Something happens to me every time And I can feel when you are near A strange kinda something goes rushing through me I know somehow you have appeared then baby Something happens to me every time And I can feel that you're grooving too I can tell that you have been caught in the spell That I am under We gaze into each other's eyes With breathless wonder to say That when something happens to you it happens to me Or something like that.

Maybe it's backwards.

Yeah.

Some of these songs are so poetic.

Back in the day, our grandfathers great-grandfathers, they had rap.

Everybody know how to talk to the ladies.

Not like now.

Right now.

No, I'm just kidding you cool?

What's up?

- [Interviewer] I'm good.

I love this.

This is beautiful.

This is amazing.

Thank you.

- You all right?

You don't care.

You gonna want something else in 10 minutes?

You gonna be crying?

God, please.

Roy, please.

- [Crew] You think the music's too fast now?

Huh?

You think the rap the music's too fast now when you say that?

- No, I'm just saying.

No, I was just making a comparison to the lyrical content because back in the day, you know, when they wrote songs, the lyrical content was very poetic.

You know, especially with some of the standards, like for instance, like prisoner of love.

Like, you know, he says alone from night to night, you'll find me too weak to break the chains that bind me.

I need no shackles to remind me that I'm just a prisoner of love.

Then let's say for one command, I'll stand and wait now for one who's master of my fate now.

I can't escape for, it's too late now.

Don't let me be a prisoner Someone sharing the love Love with me - The last one, he comes in with the hard joint is you're in my dreams, awake or sleeping down on my knees to you.

I'm creeping.

My very soul is in her keeping.

I'm just a prisoner of love.

(jazzy music) The gypsy.

- [Crew] Just take it right there.

Take it like that.

- I'm playing here.

I'm posting in front of the place where I'm playing tonight.

That's where I'm at.

- [Interviewer] How does it feel to be at the end of the tour?

- Ready to go home.

Tired.

I'm over it.

All right.

Done with Roy?

(jazzy music) - Came full circle back to Marsielle, where, where I kind of started the beginning of my career was like in Aix-en-Provence, right near here.

And then we came here.

So it was like, I was like 17, maybe years old and I had never been out of Texas.

- [Interviewer] it like being in Europe the first time after growing up in Texas?

Like what was that like?

Did it seem like a different world?

- It was like, I don't really know how to describe it.

It was like culture, you know, we were on the train a lot.

I remember back then that's when I used to drink too.

So I was always drinking wine and eating great meals.

Oh my God.

We used to go to this place that had the best seafood think I've ever had in life.

It was in Katonya, Sicily, right next to the volcano, Mount Edna.

I don't feel good.

Can you let me lay down and then you catch me tomorrow fresh with the sun tomorrow.

- [Interviewer] Will you come out to the court?

To the water?

- Yeah.

- Tomorrow?

- Guys can help me score drugs.

- [Interviewer] What kind of drugs do you wanna score?

- The hardest.

- Why not just some gentle weed.

- 'Cause they ain't gonna have it.

It's Marseille.

French connection.

I'm with (bleep) with y'all man.

- He had his problems and as with all of us, eventually they catch up to us.

- [Interviewer] What age were you the first time you tried drugs or drinking?

- Oh my god.

Really?

- [Interviewer] On the road?

I'm just curious.

- I don't know.

I started that (muted) before I went on the road before.

I mean this has been a thing with me since I was probably a young boy.

My father gave me, used to give me the cold duck.

It was like the milk drink with the alcohol in it when I was a kid.

I don't know, it's probably been a part of me since I was a kid.

- A lot of times you talk to Roy, you might be disturbing him and that that's kind of the what he left people with.

You know, people would say to me, yo, what's up with your boy?

I'm like, man, he's cool.

Come to find out later, Roy told me, look, Mark, you know, there's a lot of things about me you didn't know.

- I had that in my family.

You know, my uncle was a alcoholic, a drug addict.

All of our, you know, families, we have a tradition of mental illness, a tradition oof drug abuse.

So I was always sensitive to it because in New Orleans, all the guys in my father's band, except for one died of heroin overdose.

You, Roy and I, you know, we have conversations about that too.

One time I sent him to a rehabilitation clinic, you know, he went and, you know, he struggled with it.

It was a struggle.

- I'm fighting with myself 'cause I really want to go outside and try to find some drugs, but I can't, I can't do that.

I'm gonna stay here by love.

I like drugs.

- Playing music is such a personal thing.

It's not something that lies outside oneself.

That one is doing as a job.

We do this as a commitment, especially if you're playing jazz.

It's challenging to play jazz, every moment.

I mean, to create something new each time is very challenging.

Especially in front of an audience.

And the best way to position yourself in front of an audience is essentially kind of being naked in front of them and presenting your true self, your inner self expressing that, that's so hard to do.

- I should have been more proactive.

You know, he was fighting, he fought against it.

Everybody always thinks that you can just overcome something more.

And I'm saying that to say just it's circumstances and we, everybody's down here for a different reason and it's not for us to, we don't know the reason.

And I think Roy, he gave a lot and he was fighting with stuff and he struggled in his upbringing.

Roy, he didn't have a free ride.

- It's not just musicians, you know, it's artists, it's writers, it's anybody that seeks the creative gene.

We don't feel that we are sort of normal like most people have a wife and a kid and a family or lots of kids but even those people, everyone has some way of escaping.

- Okay, well this is it.

I'm saying goodnight.

- [Interviewer] All right.

Do your thing.

- Oh God.

My whole thing right now is just about trying to be an example and try to keep God in everything I do because as long as he's at the wheel, you can't go wrong.

I call myself a docile collaborator with God 'cause he's the boss.

You know what I'm saying?

Can you dig that?

Docile collaborator.

People get in their own way a lot of times when they just, just let God handle it.

Not to say that you can't handle it too, but sometimes you just gotta let go and let it be, let things happen as the way they should happen, you know?

(jazzy music) - I've been a Buddhist now actually for 47 years.

He chanted with me and he really liked it.

- I find that when I was chanting with Herbie, my rhythmic thing got really broad, you know, it's like, it's so deep because with him, he's so deep with it that sometimes it starts to sound random, but it's not random.

He'll just drop one on you and you'll be like, oh (muted), he's been playing in time that whole time.

- But one thing about Buddhism, it actually kind of gets the dust off of what you have inside.

(jazzy music) - It's almost like a priesthood.

And to a certain degree with the art at a certain point, like it gets like that.

And because a lot of people don't really have anything in their lives that they would focus that type of attention and devotion to, they can't understand it.

They're cynical about it.

They're like, well this person must be crazy.

Or like, just like off, they don't have anything that they're that inspired about.

- And he was a Griart, you know, he was a storyteller.

He was a mystic, you know, and now you know, he's one of the ancestors.

- I always say that even if it's no one, there's nobody in the audience sometimes that, that we have our best gigs like that 'cause the spirits are listening.

You know, maybe there's nobody there, but there's like the invisible people or they're listening and sometimes they give you a lot and the music gets better.

(jazzy music) - [Interviewer] Talk to me about the French and their understanding of jazz and the history of that.

- I think the French are bee boppers because of Ravel, Maurice Ravel, and his concept of harmony.

And plus, back in the 40s, Bird and Miles came over here, but Pal lived in France, so did Johnny Griffin.

So they spread their vibes all over.

Whenever I play in France, I always get like all these encores, they want us to play all night.

I remember when my father passed away and I went to his funeral.

I didn't feel right about that.

I didn't like being there.

And I tried to go and see him one night and I drove to the cemetery, but I didn't get out the car.

I get a feeling if my father had been a musician, he would've been a really good one.

You know, I think it skipped a generation.

I'm pretty sure that my grandfather might have been the one who was the musician of the family.

I don't know much about him.

You know, my grandmother was very tight-lipped about him, but I think he might have been a preacher.

Yeah, I think he might have been a preacher.

- It's beautiful, isn't it?

There was a drummer over there.

I wanted you to see it was like.

- They're all dead.

They're dead people.

- It's just the other side.

- No.

I don't want nothing to do with that yet.

I guess maybe 'cause I'm close to it.

Oh well.

- All right.

- Marie Caruso, but she lived 90 years.

That lady.

- That's a long life.

- Her husband lived 80 something.

That's a good love.

- It is.

I wonder why people always leave flowers.

(jazzy music) - Sure as (muted) he called me, you know.

So I flew to Cincinnati, you know, I looked at Roy, he did not look good.

You know, he was very sick, but he was so happy and I was so happy.

And then we went outside after the soundcheck and we were just talking about life.

- Yeah in set, France.

I got worried that when I saw him at that gig, I thought, oh man, he's looking weak again.

- Talking about old times, bringing up stories.

We were laughing, really.

Stop making me laugh so hard.

I'm like, man, stop making me laugh so hard.

And we talked about the state of these young musicians and where they are and words like, yo canon, man, I'm just trying to help these kids man.

Some focus man.

They don't got no focus.

Trying to just show 'em, man.

That's why I'm out every night now, man.

And that's why I'm hiring young guys, man.

I'm just trying to help 'em, you know, I'm trying to show 'em the way I said, man, you are showing them.

We've always showed 'em the way Roy, you showed me the way you know for a lot of things, man.

(jazzy music) - Questlove texts me that morning and he goes, I guess you heard, I'm thinking, oh, it could have been any other soul choir.

- I'm on the phone with my wife and she says Roy died.

(jazzy music) - He was tired.

I think that's only reason why he would leave anyway.

He was tired.

Tired enough.

- Part of me knows that he had fought for so long with this illness.

I didn't know whether to feel like my brother's finally at peace and he doesn't have to fight this anymore.

Maybe his soul and his body are relieved.

I would've liked to have seen him one last time to tell him that I love him.

- You know, mourn people when they're alive.

Like, you know, I felt like I could, I should have, you always feel like you could have did more, you know, but you didn't.

You did what you did.

- I always saw Roy like this angel of light and his essence was to bring this beauty to the world.

But because it was so powerful and so strong, that negative force had to be around him.

So I always felt like this energy was always trying to contain him.

And he fought it for 49 years and now he's in a better place.

If there is a heaven and there's a jam session going on right now, he's not letting John Coltrane and those cats sleep.

Like, he's just playing, you know, with everybody.

Louis Armstrong on up.

- It was all love for the great Roy Hargrove, you know, he was a really super musician and a good human being.

So it's down in the Akashic record.

- We got a chance to laugh one more time.

You know, I didn't know Roy was gonna pass after that.

And you know, we hugged and... Cut it.

(jazzy music) - [Interviewer] What do you think happens when we die?

- Oh, when we die, I think we go and deal with God.

We're in the spirit world now and we have to face the creator.

I think that when we die, that we go to him, he takes us.

He's taking us home.

At least, that's what I believe anyway.

I've always believed that.

We have fulfilled whatever our purpose is for being on earth.

So yeah, I think that's just God.

We go to see him.

We go to be with him in the land of milk and honey.

- Are you afraid of death?

- If you believe in it.

No, not really.

I don't want it to come prematurely.

But no, I'm not afraid.

I want to see God.

God is great.

He's a master.

He does all of this stuff.

I would miss Earth, but being with God is the best, best place that you can be.

Hey it's Roy, your boy.

I just wanted to say goodbye and say that thank you for everything you did, took care of me and all that stuff and you know, my prayers are with you and your family and you really are the bomb.

And I appreciate what you're doing for me.

And I love you.

Okay.

Bye.

(jazzy music) (Roy laughing) (upbeat music begins) (upbeat music continues)