Here & Now

US Rep. Mark Pocan on Trump's Conduct Toward the War in Iran

Frederica Freyberg:
A terrifying week in global warfare brings cautious relief days later by way of a two-week ceasefire in Iran. Citizens on the sidelines may wonder where their congressional representatives stand and how they are responding to the war. Tonight, we turn to 2nd District Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan. We should note we reached out to Republicans in several districts without reply. Congressman, thanks very much for being here.

Mark Pocan:
Sure. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
So on Tuesday this week, the world was on tenterhooks waiting President Trump’s threat that a whole civilization will die tonight unless Iran opened the Strait of Hormuz and then the announcement of a cease fire. The White House says it was a tough negotiating tactic that worked. What do you say?

Mark Pocan:
You know, this is chaos piled on top of chaos, piled on top of uncertainty, right? I don’t think Donald Trump from day one really had a plan on how to deal with what he was doing going into Iran. And we’re seeing that all unfold right now. And that rhetoric just has been unseen by any world leader previously. And even now, the cease fire is –still has all kinds of uncertainty. We’re not exactly sure what all the standards were. Donald Trump said he knows the ten. He’ll tell you if they’re met. That’s ridiculous. And Iran just I saw today said two conditions aren’t met yet. The stopping of the bombing in Lebanon and releasing some funds to them, which that was the first time I actually had kind of heard that part of whatever was negotiated. So this is just a complete mess. Our gas prices are going up, our respect across the world is going down. And it was a war of choice. There was no imminent threat to the United States.
And that’s the only time the president could initiate this without Congress. So, you know, to call it chaotic is probably an insult to the word chaos.

Frederica Freyberg:
You and others have called to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Donald Trump from office. Now, that would take the vice president and the majority of the cabinet to declare the president unfit. So is this really a rhetorical demand on your and others parts?

Mark Pocan:
Yeah, I think this is a signal to the world that don’t hate America. There are normal people here because what Donald Trump is doing is hurting our place across the globe right now. You know, some of our best trading partners in Japan and South Korea rely on like 70% of their energy coming through the Straits of Hormuz. The fact that now they’re paying the price of Donald Trump’s bad decision. The fact that our best allies were not informed going into this so now they’re not participating, which I totally understand. But Donald Trump doesn’t. We have to express that as a nation, this — we understand this is a bad decision. What he did in a couple of those, those social media posts this week were beyond a bad decision. And I seriously and many others question whether or not he’s able to do this job. But we want others to understand that many of us do question his capability.

Frederica Freyberg:
Wisconsin polling shows that 61% of voters oppose this war, many of them probably in your district. But what levers of power do you and others in Congress have over this? Will Dems continue to push for a war powers resolution?

Mark Pocan:
Yeah, we’ll push for war powers resolution next week when we’re back in Washington. And I’ll tell you, this is one where, you know, we need some of the Republicans from Wisconsin across the country to reach around their backs and feel if they have a bone down the middle called a spine, because it’s necessary for Congress to stand up and stop Donald Trump from this chaotic behavior. It is up to Congress to initiate war. That’s according to the Constitution. And I’ve heard a few Republicans say they’re waiting 90 days and all this other stuff. The Constitution doesn’t say that. The Constitution gives the power to Congress on this. So we have to act and take the responsible role in this. And if we don’t, then unfortunately, we continue to pay higher prices at the gas pumps. We continue to hurt ourselves with other countries across the world. So there’s a lot riding on this. And we need Wisconsin Republicans and others in Congress to stand up and grow a spine.

Frederica Freyberg:
Why should Wisconsinites care about a conflict happening half a world away?

Mark Pocan:
A lot of reasons. I mean, you’re seeing it right now in gas prices. They’re up, what, about $1.20 a gallon right now because of what’s going on. This is going to continue for months. If this ended today, Frederica, we will see gas prices in those increases for months to come yet. So this was a terrible decision that was done by the White House. But you should care because also our trade around the world — as chaotic as Donald Trump’s tariffs have been, it’s important that we have partners across the globe that buy American products that create American jobs. And when we’re hurting ourselves like we are with this right now, we jeopardize our role in being able to do that. So it’s about jobs. It’s about your pay. It’s about what you’re paying for goods because we’re paying too much for everything from groceries and everyday goods because of tariffs to health care and utilities, because of the big ugly law. And now we’re paying too much for gas because of this. There’s a lot of reasons we should pay attention and care.

Frederica Freyberg:
As to rising inflation, I see that consumer sentiment just ranked at the lowest on record in in the U.S. And meanwhile, Trump’s budget calls for $1.5 trillion in defense spending. This would not be, I trust, a priority of yours.

Mark Pocan:
No. In fact, I think what the president said is we don’t have money for things like child care because he wants to put it into the national, the Pentagon’s budget essentially because he’s wasting so many weapons right now while he’s doing this war of choice in Iran. And, you know, I think if you talk to the average person, certainly the average employer, child care is far more important than what he’s doing right now. So the fact that he doesn’t understand, let’s face it, he’s the Epstein class, right? He’s a really, really rich guy who is out of touch with what it is to actually live paycheck to paycheck, to pay a mortgage, to make sure you have health care for your family, can you budget for a vacation. This guy hangs out at Mar-a-Lago and has Twenties, Roaring Twenties style parties. That person doesn’t understand what Americans are going through, and we see it because we’re paying for the increase in prices. So, you know, November, people can see a change. They can change out some of the faces in the House and the Senate, and then we can finally have the ability to stand up and do proper oversight. But right now, you know, it’s tough times. And we get the calls in the office and people are certainly nervous.

Frederica Freyberg:
How do you think the war in Iran informs voters coming into the midterms?

Mark Pocan:
Well, I think it just shows another bad decision, right? The tariffs are a bad decision. We know that. And we’re all paying more for groceries and everyday goods. That big, ugly law where they gave a giant tax break to Elon Musk and people who belong to Mar-a-Lago that took away health care from people and more in November, by the way, all the Medicaid cuts take place at that point. So 15 million people lose health care and we’re all paying more for it. Plus, it made utility rates go up, and now we’re paying more for gas because of the war. So you look at all of this, and I think people are just kind of exhausted from the winning that Donald Trump keeps telling us. I think, you know, most of us have a different definition of winning. It’s being able to, you know, have that little luxury of a snowmobile or a boat or whatever it might be. But it’s not just paying more for goods so that rich people get tax breaks.

Frederica Freyberg:
Speaking of elections, what’s your reaction to liberal Supreme Court candidate Chris Taylor’s 20-point victory this week?

Mark Pocan:
Well, she was an extraordinarily good candidate. I think they fielded an extraordinarily poor candidate by Supreme Court standards. But people also are very frustrated with what’s happening nationally. And I think you saw that translate. I mean, you saw mayors flip from conservative to more progressive across parts of the state that aren’t exactly blue, maybe not even purple, but people are just frustrated with what’s going on. So I think you saw a lot of that. But you know, Chris Taylor is going to be a great Supreme Court justice. She’s very smart, very savvy. I’ve worked with her since my time in the state Legislature. She’s going to help that court. We need that court to probably get a kick in the butt, maybe to get a few more things done. And I think she may just be that catalyst.

Frederica Freyberg:
We leave it there. Congressman Mark Pocan, thanks very much.

Mark Pocan:
Sure. Thank you so much.