Zac Schultz:
For the opposing viewpoint, we are now joined by Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan. Thanks for being here.

Mark Pocan:
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Zac Schultz:
So how long would you encourage Senate Democrats to hold out on passage of this continuing resolution?

Mark Pocan:
I think we need to make sure that people understand what’s at stake, and I think people will by November 1st. You have to have the rate increases for the Affordable Care Act for almost everyone’s group plans. And I think that will show what we’ve been talking about all along, which is 15 million people are going to ultimately lose their health insurance because of the big ugly law. And right now, I had an employer told me just a couple of weeks ago that their new increase for next year’s insurance is 41%, and that’s because of the uncompensated care created by the Affordable Care Act. So I think they just need to make sure that Republicans I know are getting the calls like we are when it comes to this, and it’s going to only intensify by November 1st when people do get those rates. So, you know, I would just say, hold tight, federal workers who are really being heroes in all this right now, going without paychecks, understand what this fight is about. But we’ve got to make sure that people don’t lose one of the most important economic, you know, legs to a stool that they have.

Zac Schultz:
So the Trump administration doesn’t seem to mind the shutdown. They’re trying to lay off thousands of federal employees. Trump’s building his White House ballroom right now, not worried about any fiscal situation. What is their incentive to negotiate even after November 1st?

Mark Pocan:
By next week, I think we’re going to be about two and a half weeks out from the original seven weeks they had anyway. We’ve kind of got to get together and do something because the time will have run out for even their original kind of arbitrary deadline they did without negotiating to begin with, with us. So I think that’s what’s going to happen. But, you know, as you pointed out, I mean, Donald Trump, you know, he’s using this as an excuse to fire people, but he’s already fired 200,000 people either through riffs or outright firings since he’s been president, which he doesn’t have the authority. There’s been all kinds of lawsuits, but this has already been happening. That’s part of the problem. If you can’t actually have an agreement like we used to in Congress, and that somehow the executive branch is going to steal the funds that we’ve agreed to in a bipartisan way, then you don’t really have an agreement and that’s unfortunately the place where we’re at right now. So, you know, this is really right now about protecting people’s health care. And by the way, all of us are going to pay more for health care because of that law, because of that uncompensated care. And it will help everyone in having this fight.

Zac Schultz:
So how long can the government function in shutdown mode? At what point do things just — they don’t — they can’t function at all and they shut down?

Mark Pocan:
Yeah. Places like Wisconsin, you feel it less, right? I think I was doing a town hall in Derrick Van Orden’s district last week and I asked about 50 people. I said, “Who’s feeling the impact directly?” And one person raised their hand out of 50 people. But that’s because we’re in Wisconsin. But, you know, if you’re trying to get ahold of Social Security, you want to go to a national park. But now, if you’re eligible for SNAP benefits, right, you’re going to start feeling it. So you’re going to see more of those things now happen. I just think by the time next week I’m going to go back to Washington, even if the House Republicans aren’t. I’m going to show up because that’s my job to be there. But at the same time, we’re going to be at two and a half weeks out from their artificial deadline anyway, right? So at some point we have to quit holding our breath. If you’re the House Republicans, show up in Washington and let’s negotiate. If not even this, let’s negotiate the Farm Bill that’s two years overdue. Let’s do the Older Americans Act reauthorization that’s overdue. But let’s do something. Just simply taking another week of paid vacation doesn’t solve anything.

Zac Schultz:
You talked about the House Republicans and Speaker Mike Johnson refuses to swear in the newly elected Democrat from Arizona. Do you think that is related to this discharge petition over the Epstein files, or is it simply that they’re just not in session? There’s no need to come back because there’s the government shutdown.

Mark Pocan:
I think it’s a lot of things. I think they think this is leverage to try to bring us back, to reopen the government without fixing health care. I think some of it is about is the 218th signature in Donald Trump, for, for whatever reason, now doesn’t want the release of the Epstein files after campaigning on releasing them, but I don’t — I’ve learned I can’t predict Republicans anymore, right? I mean, it’s been so, you know, the fact that you just don’t even try to come to Washington to do your job to negotiate, whether it be the shutdown, health care, farm bill, anything, you just think you don’t have to show up. That’s a weird dynamic that, you know, I’ve been doing this for a long time in local, state and federal government. Showing up matters and you know, I don’t know if I understand their messaging. I’m not sure they do because they keep changing their messaging. We’re very clear. We’re fighting for the affordability of health care so that people don’t lose their health insurance, and we all don’t pay more for it. And I think that’s a fight people understand.

Zac Schultz:
So the midterms are still a year away. Historically, there’s little evidence that government shutdowns this far out from an election impact the election. Do you think this time could be different?

Mark Pocan:
I really don’t know where this is going to end, right? Are they going to continue it and because again, Donald Trump kind of likes parts of this, as you said. I mean, he’s already been acting unilaterally. And unfortunately, the Republican majorities in the House and the Senate have allowed him to do that. Article One of the Constitution gives us the power of the purse, but he’s stealing funds that we’ve approved. The Constitution gives the power of tariffs to Congress, only emergency tariffs to the president but he’s getting away with it. So this is anything but normal times, I think. You know, when you watch the East Wing of the Capitol being demolished right now, it’s for visual learners to see what he’s doing to democracy, right? He’s literally demolishing the institutions that we understand fundamentally and that’s why you had so many people last weekend at the “No Kings” rally. 7 million people speaking out. I just think these are times that are hard for anyone to give you honest predictions.

Zac Schultz:
So finally, the consumer price index came out today. It’s at 3%. It’s an increase year over year. It’s tariffs, right?

Mark Pocan:
Trump’s tariff taxes are absolutely affecting us. We’re all paying for that messiness and it just needs to stop.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Congressman Pocan thanks for your time.

Mark Pocan:
Sure. Thank you.