Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here and Now,” voter ID is back on in Wisconsin. Also tonight, finger pointing over a nearly $2 billion projected state budget hole.

That’s where we’ll start, because if nothing changes with how much revenue comes into Wisconsin coffers and spending stays the same, the legislative fiscal bureau reports Wisconsin will have a budget shortfall or structural deficit of $1.8 billion in the 2015-’17 period. Democrats are blasting Governor Scott Walker and the Republican legislature for being fiscally irresponsible. Republican assembly speaker Robin Vos says Democrats are looking for dark clouds on a sunny day, because co-chair of the budget writing Committee, Republican representative John Nygren, says Wisconsin actually has a surplus. Assembly minority leader, Democrat Peter Barca, calls Republicans completely reckless with state finances. So which is it? We sort through it. Peter Barca is in Milwaukee, John Nygren at UW-Green Bay. But with an appeals court lifting the injunction on Wisconsin voter ID this afternoon we thought we’d get reaction first on that tonight.

Peter Barca:

Well, certainly it’s late in the process, with less than two months to go. It certainly will add a new impediment for people. And obviously, as Judge Adelman said in his decision, you know, it could disenfranchise up to 300,000 people. I mean, you think of John Nygren's home area and mine, that’s larger than the combined total of the cities of Green Bay, Kenosha and Racine, the third, fourth and fifth largest cities in the state. So I think it would be a mistake to impose it with less than two months to go.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Nygren, what’s your reaction?

John Nygren:

Well, voter ID is something that the public, a vast number of the people, have supported for years, and I support it as well. I think we can take reasonable steps to make sure that everybody has the opportunity to vote, free IDs, et cetera, and can do it in the way that protects the integrity of everybody’s vote.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right, good. Let’s move along then to budget matters. And I’ll start with you, Representative Nygren. How is it that you can tout a surplus when the fiscal bureau reports a deficit?

John Nygren:

Well, we can tout a surplus because we have one. We ended this last budgetary year with a $443 million surplus. And that’s after cutting taxes, returning dollars back to the citizens of Wisconsin. We have a rainy day fund of $280 million. This structural deficit number that’s being touted by the Democrats– By the way, just go back to when they were in charge. We had significant deficits. We had high unemployment, higher than the national average. We had record job loss. Every measurable number that’s out there, we’re in a better position today, but they want to rewrite history. A $1.8 billion structural deficit? That is as of June 30 three years from now. Three years from now, and that’s with zero percent growth. And you know, that just doesn’t happen. Over the last 20 years we’ve averaged 3.3% growth. We’re pretty comfortable. If we need to make corrections prior to going into the next budget, we’ll do that. But we think Wisconsin is headed in the right direction and the majority of the people in the state do as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Barca, Representative Nygren I think said that Democrats are using political math by seizing on these projections for the deficit and looking for dark clouds. I think that was Robin Vos who said that. So what’s your reaction to both the projected structural deficit and the sense that you guys are spinning it?

Peter Barca:

We’re not spinning anything and it’s ludicrous to suggest such. You know, it's the legislative fiscal bureau, the nonpartisan fiscal bureau, that Democrats and Republicans both rely upon for objective information. They’re the ones that are saying, at the end of this biennium with no changes we’ll have nearly a $400 million deficit, and in the next biennium it will spin up to nearly $1.8 billion. Now for Representative Nygren to compare Governor Doyle– We had a recession so deep it nearly tinkered to a recession, compared to what they face, which is much more vibrant recovery in which virtually every state in the nation has a surplus, but they took that surplus and they careened it into the ditch into making it into a deficit because of irresponsible budgeting and not doing things that were so obvious. We suggested that they have twice the rainy day fund. We suggested that we invest more heavily in job training, because we know that based on the vocational colleges you could have put up to 40,000 more people back to work. But they chose a path that has led us during the middle of a recovery, when unemployment is relatively low compared to what it was in the past, and still pushed us into a nearly $1.8 billion deficit according to the nonpartisan legislative fiscal bureau.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Nygren, what’s your response to that? And as co-chair of joint finance, this must be kind of depressing for you to see these kinds of projections.

John Nygren:

Well, as I said, it’s zero percent projection of growth, and that, as I said, 3.3% over history. You know, Representative Barca wanted a higher rainy day fund? Well, when they were in charge, they had, basically, zero rainy day fund. As I said, unemployment above the national average when they were in charge. $3.6 billion deficit when they were in charge. Item after item, everything was by far worse. We've already proven, if we need to make changes to our budget, we’re going to make those tough decisions. But that’s the next budget, that's not the budget we're under, and they want to change the story for this November. I’m hoping that the media and the public sees through it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Barca–

Peter Barca:

Well, Frederica, let me say one thing, if you don't mind. Let’s not talk about Democrats. Let’s talk about Republicans. The president of the state senate said that we knew better, but we voted for this budget anyway, so we can't say I told ya so. And then one of the most senior members on the Republican side in the state senate, Rob Cowles, somebody I have a great respect for, said we should have done a better job. That’s it. These aren’t Democrats, these are Republicans acknowledging that they did not do a very effective job, that they could have done something differently, but they chose a different path.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Nygren–

John Nygren:

A different path?

Frederica Freyberg:

Go ahead.

John Nygren:

A different path, Mr. Barca? A different path is giving money back to the people of Wisconsin. You know what? I’ll come down any day of the week on the side of the taxpayers rather than the bureaucracy in Madison. We gave back billions to the taxpayer. We’re going to continue on that course, we're going to continue to grow our economy, and we’re going to move Wisconsin forward. If you want to cheer against us, you know, so be it, but we’re going to move Wisconsin forward.

Peter Barca:

I don’t want to cheer for you or against you. I want to cheer on the side of the taxpayers. And the fact of the matter is, let’s talk about a couple decisions like BadgerCare. That may be one of the worst decisions in a generation here in Wisconsin. You chose to turn back $2.4 billion, which means the Wisconsin taxpayers have to pay $100 million more each and every fiscal year to make up for that imbalance. And we insure 80,000 less people. How do you justify that? It’s not good for the taxpayers, it’s not good for the patients of the state. And this is a program started by Republican Governor Tommy Thompson.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let’s let him answer.

Peter Barca:

You people have taken the most extreme, irresponsible path. And it’s not good for the taxpayers, it's not good for the economy. We’re tenth of tenth in the Midwest under the leadership you guys have put forward.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Nygren, do you want to respond to any of those points?

John Nygren:

Sure, I’ll do my best. You know what? We chose, rather than putting government in charge of people’s health care– First of all, we had a waiting list for people on BadgerCare. That waiting list doesn’t exist anymore under the decisions we made. I was actually just touring a local hospital the other day. Their actually– Their census is up over 10% and they believe that’s because more people on the low end that actually have coverage today than they did before. Instead of taking the money from the feds, we’re allowing those dollars to go to the people that need it themselves through subsidies, and they’re able to purchase private insurance that reimburses hospitals at a much higher rate rather than underfunding the hospitals. So you know, I’ll stand by our decision. We think it’s the right one. Over time, I think it will prove out to be the case.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Barca, I want to ask you this. If the legislature made spending cuts and tax revenues picked up, couldn’t this be fixed in that way?

Peter Barca:

Well, of course there’s ways that it can be fixed. It’s a shame that in times in which virtually every state in the nation has a surplus, that we’ve chosen a course to go the wrong direction. But obviously, you know, it’s going to have to be fixed because they’re already acknowledging that we probably are going to need to have a budget repair bill. But, you know, part of it, too, is the tax breaks that Representative Nygren refers to gave well over 12 times tax breaks for people making over $350,000 than it did for the average, you know, worker in Wisconsin. That doesn’t help the economic picture. That’s part of the reason why their tax plan just isn’t working and why we’re facing a nearly $1.8 billion deficit.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Nygren, final word.

John Nygren:

Well, we have a progressive tax structure in Wisconsin. We eliminated a bracket. Actually, the most reductions were in the lowest income bracket. You know, Frederica, all the different points I’ve made, every measurable issue in Wisconsin, we’re far better off today than we were four years ago. The Democrats are trying to rewrite history, because we’re in silly season, it’s election time. We put more money into people’s pockets. That’s the course we’re going to choose every single time.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Representative Nygren and Representative Barca, thanks very much.

Peter Barca:

Thank you. Good to be with you.

John Nygren:

Thank you.

Peter Barca:

Have a great weekend, Representative Nygren.