Frederica Freyberg:
On childhood vaccinations, parents may be wondering what’s happening after every member of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices was fired by DHHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The new committee, chosen by Kennedy, who is a vaccine skeptic, met this week and announced a review of immunization schedules and had some other changes. The advisory committee makes recommendations to the CDC on which immunization should be given and whether they are covered by insurance. Amid this upset to established vaccine guidance, a new project has taken shape at the University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy. It’s called the Vaccine Integrity Project. Dr. Michael Osterholm is director of the center. He joins us now. And thanks very much for being here.

Michael Osterholm:
Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
So were there changes made this week regarding immunizations that raise alarm bells for physicians and others?

Michael Osterholm:
Well, in fact, there were several things that happened at this two-day meeting. One is is that we were able to count over 50 different instances where mis or disinformation were shared. Things that just simply weren’t true. And so that leaves people often confused as to wait a minute, now what? What is the truth about this? In addition to that, they took certain actions and as a – for example, they voted on removing thimerosal from influenza vaccine. Well, let me just back up. Thimerosal is a type of preservative. It’s ethyl mercury, not methylmercury, which is the methyl is the dangerous type. Ethyl is not. And what it is used in multi-dose vials so that as a vial might be used over a day to a day and a half, contamination doesn’t grow in it after having inserted the first needle into it. When in fact you look at overall use of thimerosal, less than 6% of all influenza vaccine doses have that. And as I pointed out over the last 30 years, there’s been ample, ample evidence showing there is no safety issue with thimerosal. But this has been a very favorite target of the secretary over the years. He’s actually written about it. And so they voted to take thimerosal out of the last remaining doses of influenza vaccine, leaving people with the sense that somehow they improved the safety of the vaccine. They did not. They did nothing. But this will be heralded again as an example of the administration basically protecting you as a citizen, when in fact there is no truth to that at all. So this is the challenge we have right now is just about mis and disinformation and really making changes with vaccines that actually improve our health versus do not.

Frederica Freyberg:
Is there reason for people to be skeptical of vaccines?

Michael Osterholm:
Absolutely not. Vaccines today are the safest they’ve ever been. If you look at the number of vaccine doses we have, yes, there are more of them. But because we’ve improved vaccines over the years, the actual amount that we call antigens you get when you get vaccinated is much lower now than it was in the 1970s. So even people who have alleged that somehow kids are getting vaccinated a lot more today, and therefore there could be problems with that, it’s actually not true. It’s actually today we’re at some of the lowest numbers of antigens being used in all the collective vaccines, and at the same time, providing this incredible protection against these oftentimes life-threatening infections.

Frederica Freyberg:
What does your vaccine integrity project set out to do?

Michael Osterholm:
Well, first of all, we want to make certain that there is a source of information that’s reliable, that’s scientifically sound, and that people can count on. Right now, you can’t count on the CDC data or information to be factually correct. There are many very talented, dedicated public health workers at CDC who do an incredible job, but they’re not allowed to be part of this process. And in that regard, that’s a huge challenge, because it means that others who have much less experience are going to be making the kinds of presentations that then the ACIP will vote on. At this point, all I can say is, is that when you look at the overall body of science and vaccinations today, it has never been a time where you’ve had more vaccines protect more lives against serious illness, hospitalizations and deaths versus the very minuscule risk of an adverse event from a vaccine. And so what we’re here to do is help with is to provide a very detailed scientific review of the vaccines with the latest, most current information so that when the societies make their recommendations, they’re basing them on the most current science. And that’s what we’re doing now. That will help everyone because again, all of the different uses of these vaccines from all these different professional societies is obviously critical to overall better health. And by having this information, we’re hopeful that payers will in fact agree that they can’t support the ACIP recommendations that may be compromised, but they can accept a body of science that has very openly and with full disclosure, demonstrated just how important these vaccines can be.

Frederica Freyberg:
What does all this disruption do in areas where uptake of vaccines is already low? I mean, is confidence in vaccines further eroded?

Michael Osterholm:
That’s the real problem we have today is confidence in vaccines, because people are getting so many different messages about vaccines depending on who it is that’s delivering them. As I mentioned earlier, over 50 mistakes or misinformation were shared at the ACIP meeting, which, I mean, you go there to find the truth, to find the scientific message that is factually based. If you have this kind of situation where you can’t count on it, you don’t know it. But the public hears that this came from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. You’re led to believe that, oh, this must be true. And so this creates a really significant challenge for us is to get the kind of information to the public that they can trust and that they can understand how we came about getting this information.

Frederica Freyberg:
Because right now, measles is a real and growing threat. How much does that concern you?

Michael Osterholm:
Oh, measles concerns me a great deal. I mean, when you look at what’s happened in this country where we’re talking about roughly 1200 reported cases, we believe there’s more than that. But look at Canada, where now they have over 3800 reported cases of measles. Remember, Canada only has 40 million people compared to our 330 million people. And so you can see that that’s just on our doorstep. And they have the same problems with vaccine hesitancy and people not willing to get vaccinated. And so over time, I’m afraid that it’s going to take us a really, really unfortunate course of severe illness, hospitalizations and deaths to help people understand just how powerful these vaccines have been.

Frederica Freyberg:
Dr. Michael Osterholm, thanks very much.

Michael Osterholm:
Thank you.