Murv Seymour: Saghar Homayounpour. Did I say it proper?

Saghar Homayounpour: Yes.

I’ve been working on that all month, two months.

I don’t blame you. [both chuckling]

Okay, so a lot of folks aren’t gonna know this, but you are a computer science teacher here at New Berlin High School.

Yeah.

I’d love to just hear, how did you fall into education? How was education the path for you?

It started 24 years ago, when my family and I moved to the United States. I knew with a bachelor’s degree in English literature from another country, it would not take me anywhere in an English-language country, and computer science was very popular back then, and I decided to go back to University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and study computer science. It was challenging for me at the beginning with no background in computer science, but then after a while, I really fell in love with this subject.

Murv: What is it about teaching, though, in terms of, like, that led you down that path? How did you know that teaching was gonna be the path for you?

Well, I ended up not being able to finish the school because we had to move to another state, and I had to put my education on hold because of the high tuition of out-of-state– high cost of out-of-state tuition, so instead, I started working as an assistant teacher at a day care, and it was there that I witnessed the positive impact of a caring teacher in a child’s life, and I thought the best way is to combine my love of teaching with my passion for computer science and go back to school for the third time and become a computer science teacher.

When do you think you knew that teaching was gonna be your path? Like, was it something that–

I think it started in that day care, because I had a very young child who couldn’t deal with other students. He was fighting, and he couldn’t be, like, join other students, and this child was assigned to me, and I was watching him, how, what causes him to start fighting? And after a while, I noticed that he wants to be that Superman, and he thinks that Superman with the power, the power of Superman, who hits everybody and who fights, he wanted to imitate, that student. And I started working with that young child, that Superman has kind hands, Superman helps people, and then all of a sudden, everything changed, and I thought, “If I can change the life “of a child, why don’t I bring that passion “of teaching with my interest in computer science and become a teacher?”

Yeah, and that passion has led you to be crowned a 2024 Teacher of the Year. That’s pretty impressive.

That’s truly an honor, and by far the most unexpected thing that has happened to me. I never thought that would happen in my career. But I have to say, and I say it from the bottom of my heart, that there are so many teachers that are dedicated and bring their passion for teaching. They bring their heart and for love of teaching to class and energy to class every day, and they all deserve the same recognition, and for me, I had opportunities in life. For me, the support of my family, the school that I ended at, and the support of all the teachers here and the computer science teacher community, who opened their arms and welcomed me in their community and supported me along the way, so I’m very grateful for that.

From what you know about the process in terms of, because I think only, what, 100 folks are crowned that each year, what does it take, what kind of skillset does it take to become a Teacher of the Year, to be awarded something like that?

I think the main part-

there are a couple of things. What you do for your students, your community engagement, how far you wanna go, and what opportunities you provide for your students, for different type of learners, and making sure that you reach to each one of them. Designing lessons based on the interests and strengths and needs of every single student, and what do you really do to make learning engaging and interesting for the students? I did not-

there is a rubric that they rate us, but whatever I had, I just shared, and apparently, it was according to the rubric.

Yeah. And what do you feel like relationship-wise? What is your relationship with your students? How do you connect with them?

Oh, everything is about the relationship. When they trust you, they trust that you are, you have their best interest. They trust you that you wanna work with them and you want them to grow. They work with you. The relationship, I think, is the main thing. It makes learning and teaching enjoyable. This is a community that we spend most of the year together in one classroom, and if we enjoy spending time to each other, if I can bring the passion about computer science and they bring that enthusiasm and love of learning into classroom, it’s magical, and I think it’s enjoyable for all of us. Computer science is an elective course. Students who are in those classes do not have to be in those classes. They choose, most of those students, they choose to be in those classes, and that passion for learning computer science helps, encourages me to grow as a teacher and enjoy every minute of it.

Yeah. And what would you describe the state of things for teachers there on the front line in our classrooms, educating the young folks that are gonna be the future? What’s the status of things with the teachers?

I think with, you know, the face of education changes all the time. But with these technological advances, we are living in a very interesting moment in history because these technological advancement has changed, completely reshaped the way students learn and the teachers teach. We cannot rely on the old, well-designed rubrics and assessments that we had. Students have access to information with just a click of a button. ChatGPT not only gathers the information for them, it analyzes, it formats it for them, so we can’t ask a student to do a research the way I used to do the research: going to the library, going through the books. The information is there, so student, teachers are learning to adapt to the new way of learning that the students are now learning. I give you an example. If I, for example, in my cybersecurity class, if I ask the students to do some research about a topic that they are interested in, I cannot rely on those slides and papers that they submit ’cause internet and ChatGPT does it for them. But if I wanna assess their learning, I tell them that you can choose any resource that helps you to learn best as long as the resource is reliable, but then learn it well enough to come to class and teach it to your peers, so not only you, the rest of the students will learn, and at the end, bring an open-ended question. It’s not about “What is firewall?” Open-ended question that opens the discussion, and we all look deeper into that topic and understand it better. And, of course, I check with them before they teach it to make sure they’re not misleading the whole class, but they take ownership of their learning. They, this is how they learn. They take ownership, they become independent learners, and they really feel responsible to understand the concept well enough to teach. And this is a big change in the face of revolution, and teachers are really ready to adapt to this new way of learning.

So you think, like, ChatGPT, AI, those sort of tools, they don’t have to be a negative when it comes to learning?

I think we can’t stop the pace of technology, and we can use it and walk and move along with technology and use it to better teach, to better learn. I don’t think these are negative things. I’m very excited about it, and it’s not because I’m a computer science teacher. I think all tools out there are helping students to become more successful. After the pandemic, there are so many online platforms for different types of learners. I didn’t have students with cognitive disabilities in my game design class or my programming class or web design class. Right now, those students are sitting side-by-side my students. I just need, I use another type of platform for them. While my programming students are typing the code, text typing, those students drag and drop the blocks of code, and they understand those basic concepts. They may not get to the point to where other students who wanna continue and pursue a career in computer science get, but they understand it, and I’m excited about this technology, and I see it as a positive thing.

Now, you’re teaching, what grade levels do you teach?

I teach both middle school and high school, mostly high school.

So what’s the chances that these young folks are gonna eventually go down a path and a career in computer science, and potentially maybe even creating advances in some of the artificial intelligence?

The chances are getting higher. One thing about computer science is computer science subject is fairly new compared to math, English, science. Students take these classes, elementary, middle school, and high school. They know what to expect from a math class or English class. They know if they are interested or not. Computer science is fairly new. They don’t know what to expect, and that misconception-

that computer science is for boys, computer science is for smart kids only, computer science is all about coding– that misconception is kind of preventing some students to take a chance on it. And to change this mindset, a good approach is to at least make taking a computer science, at least one computer science course, as a requirement for graduation, so they can give it a try and see if they like it or not. This looks good on paper, but then in order to offer at least one computer science at each school, we need enough licensed computer science teachers to teach it, and we don’t have enough computer science teachers. Why? Because most people who study computer science, they are recruited by industry. The high is, the benefits and the salaries are much higher. Another reason is that if a teacher becomes a licensed computer science teacher, there are not too many schools who offer full-time computer science jobs, so instead, those schools are turning to math and tech ed and business teachers to teach that one course for them.

What do you think your impact is in terms of creating a more diverse field of students out there that go into STEM careers?

As a teacher, I joined Computer Science, Wisconsin Computer Science Teacher Association as a leader at large. So we plan for events, for summits, for workshops, for monthly virtual meetings to support teachers who want to teach computer science, and we invite professionals, curriculum developers, experienced computer science teachers to kind of share their resources and experiences. I also joined MENTORS in CS program, which I’m proud to say Wisconsin is the pioneer and the first state who joined this program four years ago. And this year, Black Affinity Group and New Jersey CSTA are joining. In this program, we match a mentor with a new teacher teaching computer science, and we support those teachers a lot throughout the course of the school year. Those mentees can be new to teaching, or they can be experienced teacher who are teaching computer science at the beginning, like, the first year of teaching computer science. I also, to close this gap between male-dominant, white male-dominant students and the minority, the female students, the students who-

the binary, transgender students– to close this gap, I offer clubs, Girls Who Code Club that bring all female students, identified as female, together and have a feel, have a community and sense of belonging. We have cybersecurity. We have esports, we have clubs, so we invite those students to try computer science in a less structured environment, so they don’t have– if they are not sure if this is for them, they don’t have to commit a semester or year-long, commit to those semester-long or year-long courses to see if they like it or not.

How do you feel about the college and university systems across the state of Wisconsin in terms of how well they do in terms of offering the learning that folks need to get into these?

It is growing, and I think, a lot of good programs are out there, which students can benefit, can graduate from. I think the universities in Wisconsin are at the forefront of this progress, and they’re doing very well. They work with us. They make sure that the students have the basic knowledge and everything, like, they’re prepared to go to the next level.

Yeah. Two-pronged question here. So what’s the biggest challenge, do you think, in the classroom is for teachers, and what’s the biggest challenge in the classroom for the students?

In the classroom, I think for me personally, two things. The main thing, the first one is not even about the academic aspect of teaching. It’s about seeing your students suffer or going through a challenge beyond what a young person can handle, like losing a family member, mental health, serious illnesses, and all the depression, all those things that you have so much control, and you see that the student is going through a lot. The second part is when I see a student is struggling in my class and is losing the confidence and is developing that mindset that “I’m not good,” or “I’m not as smart as other students,” and that leads to kind of shutting down, because they believe that they cannot be as good as the other. And reaching to that student, making sure that student doesn’t go that path and bringing that student back and work, and it needs patience, it needs understanding, and it needs spending more time to make sure that you bring that student back, and this is the challenge.

You feel everyone has a opportunity to figure these things out in terms of growing their opportunities in–

Every teacher? Every teacher, that-

Every student?

Well, I can’t say every student will fall in love with the subjects that they are taking, no. It’s not about if the student enjoys or likes computer science or not. It’s about the confidence that “I can do anything “if I work hard. “I’m not, I’m as smart as other people. “I just need to persevere. I need to hard work,” and that positive mindset. It’s not about enjoying computer science or not.

Yeah.

It’s about that mindset.

Now, Bill Gates did some research years ago that kind of uncovered that a lot of people that go into teaching aren’t really passionate about teaching. What’s your sense of that?

It should be. You won’t survive in this field if you are not passionate. You deal with a lot of things during the day. Most people, most teachers struggle with even bringing the balance of personal life and work. We take work home during the weekends, during the evenings, because there is so much you can do during the day. Unless you love what you do, and unless you love that relationship with the students, and unless you have this mindset that I can raise the next leaders of the future, the next generation that are leaders and are confident, unless you don’t have that in heart, you won’t, I don’t think you would survive in this field.

Yeah. So when you and I first started talking earlier this year, you know, I think, February or so, you had an unfortunate accident, I think. Did you break your femur?

Yes.

Okay. So you had to be away from the classroom for a little bit?

No, I started teaching right away virtually, so somebody, a substitute was in class, and I never missed a day. I taught the class, and I stayed with students, even after school, virtually, to help them.

And did you have to do that? And what made you decide that you were–

Would a mother give up on her child no matter what? They become our children. If you care about them, yes, you do it with no doubt. It’s not that I had to do it. I wanted to make sure that they won’t fall behind.

I always hear stories about teachers sacrificing the time, the resources, buying different things that the students don’t have. My mom was a teacher for 40-plus years. I spent a little time in that classroom as a substitute, being disrespected all the time by some of those kids, but I was still there. What is it that makes a teacher give so much?

First of all, I wouldn’t call it sacrifice. Sacrifice is when you lose something instead. I’m not losing anything. I’m building the relationships. It’s the most rewarding for me when I see that my students are coding, are designing their games, are engaged and they enjoy it, so I don’t call it sacrifice. It’s just deciding what is your priority at each moment.

And I’ve also read, too, about COVID and how COVID had a big impact on learning for students. How were you impacted and how were your students impacted with COVID learning?

When the schools were closed in 2020 due to COVID, many students went home without internet and digital devices. My AP computer science students were sent with a laptop with all the IT or environments that students code on installed on it to home, so they could continue, and they were, we were preparing them for College Board exam. So they had the laptops, and I was teaching virtually, so they were prepared, and they took the exam. Meanwhile, the students who did not have those opportunities, they had to drop the course after a week because coding on a cell phone is simply, is an impossible task, and up to this day, I often think about those students, and how ever they can compete with their peers that have all the opportunities. And this big digital gap in between them– this is heartbreaking. This is truly heartbreaking every time I think about them, and that’s why after the pandemic-

although we knew that learning gap and digital gap was there– everybody is working towards closing that gap. I did my part joining CSTA, joining MENTORS in CS. I know DPI is working hard towards the licensure, towards financially support schools who need Chromebooks or some sort of device for students, so legislators, so I think everybody is coming together to close that gap as much as possible.

Yeah. And we always hear about education being, like, the great equalizer in life. What’s your attitude in terms of the importance of a good education?

I think half yes. Equity in education is everything. I think half of the responsibility of education is the academic principle, like, preparing students for the future, like, academically. But half of it is to raise responsible, and responsible and leader futures, leaders of the future. So as much as the content-based skills are important, the soft skills is important, too. Like, teaching student to be confident. Teaching students various really basic skills, such as how to manage time, how to manage pressure, stress, how to work with other people, how to get to school on time, how to study well, like prepare for a test, problem solving, critical thinking, collaboration with others, and how to persevere when facing problems. I think those are the skills that we really need to help them to develop that positive mindset and become confident. This is the main thing. When the student leave my door at the end of the semester, what I want them to feel is not how good of a programmer that student was. I want them to feel “I gave it a try, and I could do it,” and that’s what I want them to experience in my class.

You kinda hit on this a little bit, but is there anything that’s universal about learning that works in your classroom and works throughout all of education in terms of kids learning and the skills it takes to do that?

Well, we practice. We practice those skills, we model, and I think in every subject it’s different, but we are adapting to the way that they are learning, and we get feedback from them, and we kind of listen to them now, a lot. What I hear is very common nowadays, is that we tend to lecture less. We teach the basics, the basics, and we model, and then we let them to explore, use technology to explore and learn it the way they best learn. With all the fast access to everything around them, our students cannot sit for one hour and listen to the lecture. At most, 10 minutes, 15 minutes. So if you can deliver, in any subject, you deliver the content and let them learn and become the owner of their learning. That’s the trend, I think.

So in your years of doing this, can you get a sense of how much smarter this generation is compared to the previous one? Or are they smarter? Are they learning faster? Are they more equipped than they would have been 10, 15 years ago, that kind of thing? Any idea?

I never thought if they, never thought about if they are smarter or not, to be honest, but I think because of all the opportunities and technology around them, they are more efficient to gather information. If I had to go to the library and go through five books to find information for my research, they don’t need to do that. So efficiency is there, and so much information is there that they can gather, they can learn about. I think they are more efficient, but less patient.

Yeah. And we’re sitting in the library space here, and I sit here, and I ponder about, you know, when I was in school and how important a place like this was for me growing up, but now with technology and everything in the palm of that hand, is the library still a place for that kind of cultivation?

It is, it is. It’s amazing how many students enjoy reading. It may not be the only way to read, but they still-

there is something about that paper book that you have in your hand, at least for me. But students keep reading, maybe not from the paper book, but maybe online.

Yeah. What’s your biggest frustration about teaching?

Nothing. I’m so glad that I ended up in this career. I think this is where I wanted to be. This is what I wanted to do. It’s rewarding for me, and, yes, there are challenges along the way, a lot of workload and everything, but I enjoy doing what I do, and those students keep me going, get me going, and with their youth, their hope, their passion, and the goofiness that goes around in classroom, you never get old. You are always up to date, know what’s going on around the world with this new generation, and I absolutely enjoy every minute of it.

Yeah. Last question, I’m gonna give you a superpower. You mentioned it earlier. You said you don’t have one, but if we gave you one, what would it be?

If I had that magic wand, I would make education equitable and accessible for every single student across America and across the world because I think in a world that can be unfair, education must be equitable and fair. We all had opportunities in life that helped us to grow and be successful, and I hope that our education system does this for our future generation and sends the message that in this land of opportunities, everything is possible. They just need to dream big, work hard, and be optimistic about the future, and I hope our education system can provide those opportunities for our students.

As an immigrant who’s found success in this country, what’s your message to anyone that comes to this country and finds themself trying to build a career and build a future? What’s your advice to them?

My advice is if you choose, if you chose to make change, expect challenges along the way. You just need to work harder. You need to, oftentimes, get out of your comfort zone and be optimistic about your future. Be hopeful, be optimistic, and know that there are, this is the land of opportunities. Just dream big and work hard.

Saghar Homayounpour, Teacher of the Year. Thank you so much for being on “In Focus.”

Thank you for having me.