Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:
While the federal government continues to slash funding, the NFL draft in Green Bay brings an economic shot in the arm.
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” we check in with Wisconsin representatives in Washington. This week, Congressman Tom Tiffany. Zac Schultz reports on the financial fuel brought to Green Bay by the draft. Higher ed educators speak out about the loss of grant funding and the return of warm weather signals the return of ticks. It’s “Here & Now” for April 25.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
What does the Republican congressional delegation in Wisconsin think about changing tariffs, federal spending cuts and tough new immigration orders? We asked 7th Congressional District U.S. Representative Tom Tiffany, who joins us from Minocqua. Congressman, thanks very much for being here.

Tom Tiffany:
Good to join you today, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:
So you have long called out China for unfair trade practices. President Trump had imposed a 145% tariff on China. What’s your reaction to the president now talking about pulling back from that?

Tom Tiffany:
You know, I think he came out with really broad-based tariffs initially. And now is the part where there is negotiation going on. And so we will see where this all leads. All I know is that I just introduced a bill about a week ago in regards to the World Trade Organization. I think we should have a vote in Congress, whether we should continue to belong to one of these multinational organizations, like the World Health Organization, in this case, the World Trade Organization, because I don’t think it’s served America’s interests. I think it’s served the interests of China. And as we’ve seen, main streets across Wisconsin and America get hollowed out, part of that is because we’ve given up making things here in America. We got to bring some of that manufacturing back here to the United States.

Frederica Freyberg:
What kind of feedback have you been getting from your constituents about Elon Musk’s DOGE cuts to federal programs and personnel, everything from the USDA to the VA, Social Security, even the CDC, now unable to help Milwaukee with its lead crisis?

Tom Tiffany:
I would say both on the issue of tariffs and DOGE, the Department of Government Accountability, that it leads to uncertainty. And, you know, we all prefer to have stability in our lives, especially when it comes to our finances. And — but it’s important what is going on to have some fiscal responsibility. Congress has not done its job over the last 30 years, really making sure how these expenditures that are going out, that they’re going out appropriately. Now we finally gotten to the point we’re $36 trillion in debt. Somebody has to do something about it. And to the credit of the Trump administration, they are saying we’re going to identify this stuff. And now you Congress got to decide if you’re going to have some — if you’re going to engage in some fiscal responsibility.

Frederica Freyberg:
What about Congress’s role to kind of get a grasp of what has happened with DOGE and these kinds of, of cuts?

Tom Tiffany:
Yeah, we’re watching very closely what they’re identifying, because ultimately, DOGE does not make the decision. It’s the executive branch or Congress that makes the decision in regards to this. And they should help guide some of the things that are out there that we can deal with. I mean, $200 billion in duplicate payments that went out via the Medicaid program to insurers. Those type of things really need rigorous review. So there’s ways large and small. We need to do a better job in Congress going through these line items, line by line.

Frederica Freyberg:
If the DOGE cuts don’t offset enough spending, how will the GOP budget get the spending cuts needed to prevent Donald Trump’s 2017 tax cuts from deepening the deficit?

Tom Tiffany:
One of the things we did in the House, and in particular, those of us that are members of the Freedom Caucus, we wanted to couple additional tax reductions to deficit reduction. So to a certain extent, we will not get additional tax savings or tax reductions unless we find those spending reductions. And I think it was appropriate to couple those two things to a certain extent.

Frederica Freyberg:
So as to spending reductions, would you vote for a budget that had cuts to Medicaid?

Tom Tiffany:
Only if they’re done appropriately. The other thing that I’ve been a strong advocate for is for work requirements. If you are able bodied and you can work and you’re taking Medicaid, in other words, you’re accepting getting your health care from your fellow taxpayers when you could have your own job. I believe work requirements should be put in place. And I think that’s one place that we could save billions of dollars with the Medicaid program.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what’s your comment on the Universities of Wisconsin already losing millions in research funds with a threat of tens of millions of dollars more?

Tom Tiffany:
Well, make the case. Make the case because, I mean, for example, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, they — their facility up in my district in Ashland was on the chopping block to close that facility. They made their case and the administration restored it. That’s an example of make the case of why that research is so important. And I think you will see this administration be very open to restoring that. The other thing that I would mention is there was a specific example in UW-Madison, where 55% of a grant went for indirect costs. When you look at the leading research grantees like the Gates Foundation, Johnson, others like that, they put a cap of 15% on indirect costs. I think something like that similarly should be done at the federal level with these federal grants, because we want good research done. UW-Madison does great research. WARF does great research, but the taxpayers should have some accountability for those dollars going out.

Frederica Freyberg:
On immigration, you’ve been super critical of Governor Evers for his guidance that he has given to state agencies around what to do in the event of ICE agents kind of showing up at a state building. He suggests that people should notify a staff attorney, not give out paper files or computer access, not answer questions or allow ICE officers access to non-public areas. So why so critical?

Tom Tiffany:
The governor is encouraging state employees to break federal law. And as the leader of the state of Wisconsin, you should never, never do something like that where you’re encouraging people to break federal law. If there has been a deportation notice that has been put out, it’s ICE’s job to remove that person. And that is what should be happening, is that the person should be removed. And Governor Evers is basically saying, no, you’re not — you are going to impede ICE from being able to do their job. That is in defiance of federal law.

Frederica Freyberg:
You’re on the Judiciary Committee, and many Republicans, including President Trump, have openly decried activist liberal judges in maligning their rulings over executive orders and other things. Does this fray the separation of powers?

Tom Tiffany:
I think it’s appropriate. But what’s really disconcerting at this point is you have these activist judges that are out there issuing nationwide injunctions for what are narrow cases that affect just a few people. I believe they’re getting outside of their lane. They’re overreaching the bounds of where they should be in carrying out their job as the judiciary.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Congressman Tom Tiffany, we leave it there. Thanks so much.

Tom Tiffany:
Good to join you, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:
In Milwaukee today. U.S. marshals arrested Milwaukee County Circuit Court Judge Hannah Dugan. She appeared in federal court on felony charges of obstructing an immigration arrest at the courthouse. So far, reaction to this breaks along party lines.
Next week, we’ll talk with a Democratic Wisconsin congressional member.

Mark Pocan:
The cuts to health care and long-term care, the cuts to food assistance, the number one program that keeps kids out of poverty. Someone’s got to fight for them.

Frederica Freyberg:
Second district U.S. Representative Mark Pocan in La Crosse this week. Again, he’ll be here next week on this program.
As to cuts, many are concerned about Social Security. So far, the White House and DOGE have already reduced Social Security Administration staff by 7,000 employees, which has caused delays in service. Former Social Security Commissioner and Democratic Governor of Maryland Martin O’Malley was in Racine this week for a citizens town hall.

Martin O’Malley:
I shudder to think of the pain that this is going to inflict on people. I mean, 40% of seniors living alone depend entirely on Social Security. It’s the difference between whether they live with dignity or whether they live in poverty. People on Supplemental Security Income, SSI, I mean, they’re among the poorest of the poor. You talk about living month to month, and they live from week to week. And interruption to benefits for them could be catastrophic. I mean, they get evicted from their apartment. Elderly people, you know, suddenly, you know, they realize that the bills that were just allowing them to make it — now they’re not able to pay their utilities. So it’s going to have a real damaging impact on individuals. And it’s also going to be a real kick in the teeth for consumer confidence. We’ve come to rely on Social Security… And I can tell you for sure because I’ve been talking to a lot of them in both parties that members of Congress are seeing a rising tide of opposition to the destruction of their Social Security or the interruption of their earned benefit. They’re also seeing a rising tide of really frustrated customers. They can’t get through on the 1-800 number and have a four hour wait to get into a field office and a three month wait to even get an appointment at a field office. So people’s voices need to be heard.

Frederica Freyberg:
In other news, the eyes of the sporting world are on Green Bay this weekend as the Packers host the NFL Draft at Lambeau Field. “Here & Now” senior political reporter Zac Schultz was there for the first day of the draft and tells us the state hopes the economic impact will be felt for years to come.

Roger Goodell:
Okay. Welcome to the 2025 NFL Draft in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
When the National Football League announced the Green Bay Packers would host the 2025 NFL Draft, there was little doubt Packers fans would show up. A party in the shadow of Lambeau Field, with no cost to get in. By the end of the night, the NFL announced attendance on the first day hit 205,000 people.

Anne Sayers:
The draft is really like an all-eyes-on-us moment for Wisconsin, and that’s really important because we are turning football fans into Wisconsin fans.

Zac Schultz:
Anne Sayers is Wisconsin’s tourism secretary, and she knows not all of these football fans are local. We saw jerseys representing all 32 teams in the league, and even some of those wearing Packers’ jerseys traveled from out of state. Wisconsin spent more than $2 million to help prepare for and promote the event.

Anne Sayers:
We have been preparing for a long time. We knew we could do it. And so I think people are going to have a seamless experience, and that’s what it’s all about.

Aaron Leonard:
We booked an Airbnb in Appleton like a year ago.

Zac Schultz:
Aaron and Tricia Leonard traveled from Illinois with their two young children. They were surprised to find activities for their kids throughout the day, like this football skills event.

Boy:
I was just thinking about like, I was doing pretty good.

Aaron Leonard:
Yeah, it’s been a great experience, especially for a five and soon to be three-year-old. It’s been great for the kids.

Zac Schultz:
The Leonards have been to Green Bay for games before, but for others, this trip was a first.

Man:
This is awesome. I’ve seen people from every fan base. It’s a beautiful area. Hotels are nice.

Johnathan Grubbs:
I would love to come back to watch a Packers’ game at some time. That’s on my bucket list.

Zac Schultz:
Wisconsin is on a hot streak when it comes to hosting large events, and Sayers says the key is turning those visitors into repeat customers.

Anne Sayers:
I think we’re making an impression. You know, we hosted the RNC. We are now hosting the draft. We were showcased through Top Chef just recently. We have a lot of marquee moments happening in golf. We were welcoming Indy Car back, and I think it’s just showing like, yeah, Wisconsin can do this. We can absolutely host. People can have a great time. They go home with stories. They actually want to come back for their family vacations. That’s what it’s all about.

Heidi Wallace:
Just to drive up here too it was kind of cool to look at, you know, all the things that we could do. You know, we thought maybe we’ll bring our kids here. Maybe we’ll do this, maybe we’ll do that.

Zac Schultz:
While a cloudy day in April may not show off Wisconsin at its best, the food is always good, and there were long lines for standards like burgers and cheese curds. But also food trucks like the Frybread Shack.

Ezra Leoso:
Frybread is our special recipe that we make with our dough.

Zac Schultz:
Ezra Leoso and his team are from the Bad River Band of the Lake Superior Chippewa.

Ezra Leoso:
We’re an Indigenous food truck. There’s not too many Indigenous foods out there, so it means a lot. And we’re very honored to be out here representing on behalf of Native Americans across Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan. We’re from northern Wisconsin, the Bad River reservation. So we’re very honored to be a part of this and to be accepted in here and share a little bit of our culture with everyone.

Anne Sayers:
We are showcasing our amazing culinary food traditions, our outdoor recreation, which is world class, our unique accommodations, our unexpected attractions. So many of these things that we know travelers are looking for. We have it in Wisconsin and the draft is just giving us a stage to show it all off.

Zac Schultz:
The NFL Draft is one of those rare sporting events where every fan can walk away happy. None more so than the crowd of Packers fans when the team finally made their selection.

Announcer:
The 13-time world champion Green Bay Packers draft Matthew Golden, wide receiver, Texas.

Crowd:
Go Pack go!

Zac Schultz:
Reporting from Green Bay. I’m Zac Schultz for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:
Turning back to higher ed cuts. He calls it the Friday night massacre of the verifiable truth. A UW-Madison professor researching and amplifying accurate claims about vaccines saw his $5 million federal grant terminated a week ago. The National Science Foundation grant was axed “per the presidential action that the NSF will not support research with the goal of combating misinformation, disinformation and malinformation that could be used to infringe on protected speech rights.” Professor of Journalism and Mass Communications Michael Wagner is here. Ahead of this, we should note PBS Wisconsin is part of UW-Madison. Hi, Mike.

Michael Wagner:
Hi. Good to see you.

Frederica Freyberg:
How surprised were you, shocked, really, that your grant was terminated?

Michael Wagner:
Well, in the short term, I wasn’t shocked. I mean, we’ve been under scrutiny from the federal government and even the weaponization of a government subcommittee in the House for the last year and a half. And so we knew this day was coming and so on the one hand, it wasn’t that shocking, although we knew — we didn’t know exactly when it was going to happen, but more broadly, to say that researchers in the United States who made, you know, grant proposals and had them vetted by a series of experts that were blind to us, so we don’t know who was evaluating us, said, this is a project worth doing and that could really help people. And then to have the government say, we’re not so interested in sharing things that are true, that’s really shocking. And what’s even more shocking is that it’s not just happening to us. I mean, it’s a big deal to us and our team and the grant we have. But this is happening all across campus and all across the country.

Frederica Freyberg:
So describe your research, now that is on hold, what were you looking at and why?

Michael Wagner:
So we were really interested in ways that we could try and improve the information environment without engaging in content moderation. So one thing that’s really controversial, and there are experts who study this is to say if some things are false and especially if they’re dangerous, maybe platforms should be pressured to take them down. That’s not what we do. What we say is we want to identify networks of conversation online that are sharing information that might be false. Then we want to see are there independent fact checkers and independent research studies that have been done, at least three, that confirm this thing that’s being shared online isn’t true? If that’s the case, then we want to create messages that say, here’s the stuff that’s true, and then we want to use the platforms advertising mechanisms to buy ads and show them to the people who saw the false stuff. So put simply, if people are seeing things that aren’t true, we want to make a message about something that is true and share it with people so that the truth can compete with the falsehood. We don’t want to take any content down, we just want those two things to compete, and then we want to see, does sharing the truth make things better for people?

Frederica Freyberg:
So as you said, yours is not the only sizable grant eliminated at UW-Madison. At least $12.6 million in direct research funding has been canceled. What are you hearing from your colleagues about all of this?

Michael Wagner:
We organized a teach-in for our undergraduate students last week, and in that conversation, one faculty member from the School of Human Ecology noted, you know, more than a dozen grants related to Social Security studies. So this is not not just for seniors, but for lots of other folks who get Social Security benefits: people with disabilities, children of people who have died and don’t have parents anymore. All kinds of folks who need — we need to understand how well are these benefits helping them? Is it the right amount? Are they being, you know, distributed in the right way? All those kinds of things, all those got immediately killed. We’ve heard from people in the medical school that in some cases there are hiring freezes, even at the VA, so that new staff can’t be hired and new research assistants can’t be hired. This is especially hard for undergraduates who say they want to go to med school, because you really need to have experience in a lab to make your application to med school sing. And now it’s getting harder to do those kinds of things on our campus. So it’s happening all over: social sciences, hard sciences, humanities, everywhere.

Frederica Freyberg:
Can you begin to understand the motivation?

Michael Wagner:
There seems to be a coordinated war on universities and their mission, because universities are places where we have really hard conversations about complex things. They are places where the truth is iterative, and we learn more over time. And sometimes things that we thought were true change in the face of new evidence. Sometimes the new evidence turns out to be wrong, and the scientific process is slow and messy and controversial. And sometimes scientists don’t communicate it as clearly as they ought to. But I think there’s a coordinated war on folks who are interested in studying these kinds of things. And I think it’s worth citizens asking who is to gain by stopping misinformation research in the United States? Who is to gain by stopping Social Security research in the United States? Whose pockets are getting lined and whose are getting fleeced?

Frederica Freyberg:
So having just spoken to Congressman Tom Tiffany, he says that people upset about these kinds of cuts, all they have to do is make a case and maybe they can be restored. So what’s your case?

Michael Wagner:
Our case is that we have a scientifically vetted process that actually went through two phases. The NSF for our grant had a phase one that was a much smaller award, still a lot of money, $750,000, which is a lot of money, especially in social sciences. And it gave us a year to demonstrate a proof of concept that we can do this. We did that. We submitted our $5 million grant and the scientists who evaluated it said, yes, we think you can do this. We’ve also been making a ton of progress that we regularly share with the NSF every year. And so we turn in our yearly reports about, here are the new things we’ve learned. Here’s how we’re changing what we’re doing. And so we’re simply trying to learn things that are true and share them. And I don’t think it’s in the interest of the United States to stop doing that.

Frederica Freyberg:
Professor Mike Wagner, thanks very much.

Michael Wagner:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
From news out of Washington to what’s happening in your own backyard. It’s tick season and it started early this year. Also, health officials are keeping an eye on dangerous and not well-known tick-borne diseases. We turn to the Department of Health Services and Public Health, entomologist Xia Lee. And Dr. Lee, thanks very much for being here.

Xia Lee:
Thank you for having me on the show.

Frederica Freyberg:
So even though spring has really just sprung, are ticks already out in some force?

Xia Lee:
Yeah. Although it feels like spring just started for us, the ticks have been out since middle of March and we do a lot of work around the state, and what we see is that they are out and they are abundant. In some locations, they are numerous.

Frederica Freyberg:
Is this a harbinger that the tick season will be bad this year?

Xia Lee
Sometimes we do see that, but we do have a lot of work and surveillance that we do across the state of Wisconsin. And what we’re seeing right now are tick numbers that are fairly similar to what we normally see in an average year. And considering the forecast for this summer, I think we’re expecting a fairly average and normal year for tick season.

Frederica Freyberg:
How does Wisconsin compare to other states when it comes to number of ticks that we encounter?

Xia Lee:
Yeah. So Wisconsin is considered one of the top ten states with the highest rates of tick-borne diseases. And so we do have quite a number of ticks in Wisconsin. There are other states that have a lot more, but I think we are definitely up there in terms of the, you know, the top five, top ten.

Frederica Freyberg:
Now, three types of ticks inhabit Wisconsin, I understand, but nearly all illnesses spread by ticks are caused by the deer tick, according to DHS. One such illness we know about is Lyme disease, really well known. How common is that?

Xia Lee:
Yeah. So Lyme disease is one of the most commonly reported vector borne disease in the United States. In fact, it is the most common vector-borne reported — reported vector-borne disease in the United States. Now, when we think about how common it is, we often think about how common it is in the ticks that we find out in the environment. And so this time of the year when the ticks are active, we normally see the adult ticks. And a lot of the research and studies that have been conducted in those ticks are in the environment. When you collect them and you test them for the pathogen that causes Lyme disease, we see about 40% to 50% of those adult ticks have that pathogen. And now when we get into the summer months, that shifts a little bit and we get the juvenile life stages that become active. In that life stage, we typically see about 15% to 20% of those ticks being infected with that pathogen that can cause Lyme disease.

Frederica Freyberg:
So that’s bad enough but there are these other illnesses, including something called Alpha-gal syndrome and Powassan, the latter of which is more common in northern Wisconsin I understand. What is Powassan and how dangerous is it?

Xia Lee:
Yeah. So Powassan virus disease is a disease that can be transmitted by, again, the blacklegged tick or the deer tick, and it can be very fatal in some cases. You know, there are some cases where people can develop severe symptoms such as encephalitis. And then in rare cases, people can die from this as well. But for the most part, when we think about how common or uncommon this pathogen is in the environment, again, we go back to sort of thinking about how common this pathogen is in the ticks that could potentially bite us. And so when we think about that and we do the testing and we look at the studies that have sort of, you know, pull the ticks from the environment, test them for this pathogen, what we see is that the number of ticks that are infected with this pathogen, is about 1% or less than that. So it’s fairly uncommon in the ticks that are out in the environment. And it’s fairly uncommon in the sense that we just don’t see a lot of it in the environment.

Frederica Freyberg:
What should people do to best prevent tick bites?

Xia Lee:
Yeah. So tick bites are entirely preventable. Some of the easiest things that you can do that are cost effective is just check yourself for ticks. You go outside, you go into the woods, you go on a hike. Just remind yourself to stop every 15 minutes and check yourself for ticks. When you’re done with that and you come out of the woods, check yourself for ticks. When you get home, an easy thing to do is to take off any of the clothes that you had on and throw that into your dryer. Run it on high for about 10 – 15 minutes and that should create enough heat to kill any ticks that were on your clothes. Take a shower, and of course, do a thorough tick check before you take a shower. Taking a shower can help to remove any ticks that have not been attached to you, and of course, one other thing that you can do while you’re out there is to use bug spray. You know, if you use bug spray and target yourself in the regions where the tick might grab onto you, it’s a good way to just repel them and keep them off of you and keep you safe.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right, Dr. Xia Lee, thank you very much for your information.

Xia Lee:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSWisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.