Frederica Freyberg:
In other news, with more than 23,000 people housed in Wisconsin’s 36 adult prisons, there is an ongoing effort by people formerly incarcerated and those who run prisons to make conditions better. The Department of Corrections tells us they’re working with a national consultant to examine its policies. Tonight, Murv Seymour shows us how a Madison man travels the state educating people about his time in prison.

Chanters:
Use parole and compassion.

Murv Seymour:
If it’s the 23rd of the month, you’ll find a small group quietly advocating.

Talib Akbar:
Stop, stop, stop the torture.

Murv Seymour:
One phrase at a time, on the steps of the state Capitol and at times, inside speaking at hearings and lobbying legislators.

Talib Akbar:
No more funds for solitary confinement.

Murv Seymour:
Talib Akbar, with the statewide, faith-based group WISDOM, is one of those people.

Talib Akbar:
No money for torture.

Murv Seymour:
The message here is clear, and they’re only allowed 30 minutes to deliver it.

Talib Akbar:
30 minutes. You can do a lot visually, mentally, physically. Use parole and compassionate release.

Murv Seymour:
To this small group, 23 isn’t just another number. For them, it’s symbolic and personal.

Talib Akbar:
Overall goal is to make people aware that people are locked down 23 hours a day. We’ve chosen this day to represent these people, to stand up for them.

Murv Seymour:
Out of 17 years of incarceration

Talib Akbar:
I went in for assault.

Murv Seymour:
Talib Akbar estimates three and a half to four of it was spent alone and isolated in a cell.

Talib Akbar:
I spent 10 stints in solitary confinement, anywhere from 360 days to 60 days. I never would get out of here in less than 30 days. They call it the hole. They call it solitary confinement. They call it disciplinary separation. Overall, it’s all of the above.

Murv Seymour:
You’re listening to sounds captured from inside an actual disciplinary wing of a prison.

Talib Akbar:
The dimensions of the space here is like ten feet by six. They’ll place you in this and you have no other clothes on.

Murv Seymour:
Ten years since his release, Talib remembers this space well.

Talib Akbar:
These are the clothes that the prison guards wear. And you get soft bottomed shoes because they would consider this to be a weapon. You might be able to see the clock where you are from the outside, but you have no clock in here. The light stays on 24-7. I’ve seen them strap them down. Take off all their clothes and just leave them there. You know, some wild out. They defecate on themselves right there on the table. You know that’s wrong.

Murv Seymour:
A concrete block bed and two-inch mattress and blanket. A cold concrete floor and walls.

Talib Akbar:
And it stays cold in here because of the conditions of the bricks but this is not the place to punish a person.

Murv Seymour:
Talib tells his story of incarceration and his efforts to change how people are punished from the foot of a bed inside, not a real prison cell.

Talib Akbar:
This is an exact replica pretty much.

Murv Seymour:
Instead, it’s a replica of one he built after his release from Waupun Correctional Institution.

Talib Akbar:
It’s an educational experience for anyone that hasn’t been in a solitary confinement cell.

Murv Seymour:
Drawing from memory, using a plain piece of paper, Talib hand-sketched every detail and dimension of a solitary prison cell. He took the drawing to Edgewood College in Madison…

Talib Akbar:
They’re building a cell.

Murv Seymour:
… where students helped him build it.

Talib Akbar:
There’s a whole entire list of things right there that can land you in solitary confinement. It can be disobeying an order, disrespect, not obeying the order. The purpose of the exhibit, you know, to make people aware of solitary confinement. What it’s like? You know, this is the box. You know what I mean? This is the hole. You know, it’s mentally affecting people, not only the person who’s in it, but their family also. This is an unwanted place for any human being. People who are mentally ill should not be placed in solitary confinement, because that’s a condition that solitary confinement can’t solve. There are other soft ways to discipline a person. You can take some of the privileges that they have. Lean it up against there, and see if we can put it far back. No, no, no, no.

Murv Seymour:
A man on a mission, Talib travels Wisconsin and beyond, educating anyone who will listen about the impact of solitary confinement.

Talib Akbar:
We’re moving this part right here.

Murv Seymour:
On this day at The Crossing Ministries church that sits in the heart of the University of Wisconsin campus in Madison.

Talib Akbar:
Okay. One, two, three.

Murv Seymour:
Talib and a few friends pieced the cell together like a jigsaw puzzle.

Talib Akbar:
My heart is just in this. People can understand where I’m coming from when they see this project.

Murv Seymour:
Once erected, the project will sit here for months to give anyone who walks in off the street a tiny taste of what it’s like to be confined in a space like this.

Ayman Kalada:
Part of it, it’s like, oh, it’s really peaceful.

Murv Seymour:
Ayman Kalada is torn.

Ayman Kalada:
And the other part of it is like, is it peaceful or is it leaning more towards the torture, like torture level? You know what I mean? I feel like it can be a mixture of both. We’re made to like, interact with other humans and be around other people and be strong enough to be able to share ideas and be vulnerable and create things.

Cece Babat:
That it was a, like, visceral experience being in there. Something that really stuck out to me was just the clothing items on the bed.

Murv Seymour:
Student Cece Babat plans to work in social services once she graduates.

Cece Babat:
You really can just feel, like, the anxiety within the tight space.

Murv Seymour:
With support from Pastor Michael Burch at The Crossing Ministries, she advocated for this exhibit to be brought here. She says its presence has her thinking about the future of punishment.

Cece Babat:
It definitely makes me think that we need to look into other alternatives. If we are able to repose our criminal justice system as rehabilitative, rather than punitive, that might then open conversations within the communities for just supporting those who are impacted by our criminal justice system and incarceration.

Murv Seymour:
A spokesperson for the Wisconsin Department of Corrections tells us most people in state prisons have full privileges for recreation and programing. There is a designation called disciplinary separation for conduct violations. DOC says it is not solitary confinement, and inmates there have access to visits, recreation, therapy and programing and their cells have windows. No matter what you call it.

Talib Akbar:
Solitary confinement is a big deal in prison.

Murv Seymour:
Talib Akbar’s efforts don’t stop with his portable cell.

Talib Akbar:
It’s a moving billboard.

Murv Seymour:
Near Madison’s south side sits a nearly 30-year-old box truck

Talib Akbar:
And it had nothing in it.

Murv Seymour:
that he has transformed and repurposed.

Talib Akbar:
But it runs like a Singer sewing machine.

Murv Seymour:
This old delivery truck now delivers his message and makes his mobile exhibit even more mobile.

Talib Akbar:
It is the solitary condition or confinement cell or replica cell of solitary confinement that’s been built in a truck. Recently I went to Detroit, which is 433 miles. It’s made out of wood, but it’s to emulate what is in the actual cell, which is steel, and that camera stays on 24/7 so they can watch you 24/7 and give you directions from the intercom. People see that door, which is — most solitary confinement cell doors are red and it grabs their attention.

Murv Seymour:
Getting people’s attention…

Talib Akbar:
We’ve had dignitaries come in here just to spend a couple of hours.

Murv Seymour:
… and changing the future of punishment.

Talib Akbar:
They can’t do it and then they write about it.

Murv Seymour:
That’s the goal of showcasing this roaming prison cell.

Talib Akbar:
It’s a battle that’s going to take a long time. Stop, stop, stop the torture. I’m committed to this. It’s my lifelong journey. It’s like building a cathedral. One brick at a time.

Murv Seymour:
Reporting from Madison for “Here & Now,” I’m Murv Seymour.