Podcasts

Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production. You’re watching “Here & Now” 2024 election coverage.

Mark Pocan:
This is really more of a somber mood than anything else. I mean, this is the first time in history that we’ve had a former president convicted of a felony, much less 34 felonies.

Frederica Freyberg:
Donald Trump is convicted of 34 felony charges. Wisconsin weighs in.

Brian Schimming:
The trouble now the Democrats will have is they have to go to the people of this country and say, we’re willing to weaponize judges, juries, prosecutors because we can’t beat Donald Trump otherwise.

Frederica Freyberg:
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” a bipartisan reading law turns partisan once money is involved, a renewed challenge to Governor Walker’s Act 10, the state retirement system invests in Bitcoin and barriers to food pantries are lifted, but at a cost. It’s “Here & Now” for May 31.

Announcer:
Funding for ” Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
School is not yet out for summer, but starting next fall, the new Wisconsin law mandating how children must be taught to read goes into effect. The law requires teaching phonics or the relationships between sounds and words instead of the current method widely in use, called three cueing, which uses such things as pictures to solve unknown words. This comes as the latest statewide third grade reading test scores show fewer than 40% of students are proficient readers. The reading law is in place, but the Legislature is suing over the governor’s veto of how $50 million to help fund the change can be used. We sat down with one of the authors of the reading bill, Representative Joel Kitchens, as his signature legislation is now in the courts. I know that you have said that this reading bill was the most important thing that you have worked on in the Capitol. What’s your reaction, then, to the governor’s veto and the lawsuit over it as Act 20 is really already being enacted?

Joel Kitchens:
Yeah, it’s frustrating. You know, it’s sort of politics, you know. What the governor did actually with the veto was not that horrible. It’s just the precedent of that of him being able to go in and use a partial line-item veto where traditionally he has not been able to use it. And our lawyers, when they drafted the bill, said he does not have that authority. So it would set a dangerous precedent. And it’s sort of — it’s similar to the PFAS problems that we’re having with that bill where the governor seems to think that he can change, you know, how the, how the money is spent. And that’s just going to be a problem.

Frederica Freyberg:
But meanwhile, it kind of catches this whole piece of policy…

Joel Kitchens:
Right.

Frederica Freyberg:
…in the midst of that veto and the lawsuit now.

Joel Kitchens:
Right. So it’s — unfortunately my bill ends up sort of being a test case on this. That’s really unfortunate. So hopefully it doesn’t slow it down too much. I know there are portions of it and I’ve been in touch with DPI about it. I think, you know, as far as the testing and the assessments, they’ll have the money for that. But hiring the coaches statewide, certainly they do not have that money. So until this lawsuit is settled, that won’t happen. You know, we are encouraging the schools as far as getting the training for the teachers, buying new curriculum, go ahead and do all that. You know, we will have the money there. It’s just, it’s just the lawsuit has to play out.

Frederica Freyberg:
So the governor’s veto message also spoke to the idea that he wanted to give DPI the flexibility of where to put this money. Do you take exception to that?

Joel Kitchens:
You know, again, I don’t so much as because I think we’re on the same page on it. It’s really, really unfortunate with this. And again, some other bills that he didn’t just talk to us. You know, because I think we can work out the details of this. It’s just that when you do that in an area that’s never — where that’s never been allowed before, it’s a problem. And I know when he first did that, you know, I talked to the members of JFC and they were back and forth. Well, you know, should we challenge this? But I think they decided that, yeah. The precedent, it’s too strong to ignore that and let him do that because then it’ll continue to escalate from there.

Frederica Freyberg:
Is there anything to the idea that Republicans might have been concerned because he vetoed a part of the appropriation that would have given per pupil increases to private choice schools and independent charter schools?

Joel Kitchens:
You know, I haven’t heard that be part of the concern with it. You know, what I’m hearing from JFC is just that it’s the precedent of it. And, yeah, there’s a lot of distrust of DPI, but I think, you know, again, the substance of what that partial line-item veto did is not the big deal. It’s just the precedent.

Frederica Freyberg:
As we’ve said meanwhile, this Act 20 is going into effect in the fall.

Joel Kitchens:
Right.

Frederica Freyberg:
Have you heard from educators about, you know, concerns they might have about being able to be ready to do that?

Joel Kitchens:
Yeah, and we address some of those. There were a lot of concerns so we made the first assessment which would have taken place in September, we made that optional. So they don’t have to do that until later because we were trying to, you know, to speak to their fears. And now with this, of course, everybody’s like, what’s going on? So again, we keep telling people and I think DPI is giving them the same message. Just go ahead, go forward. You know, you’re — the money’s going to be there. And it’s really important that we get this going.

Frederica Freyberg:
In the research that you’ve done around this important issue for you, how soon do you think these kinds of changes will result in more children being able to read at a proficient level?

Joel Kitchens:
Yeah, I expect it to be pretty rapid. I think that in two years, we will see the difference in those kids. And again, this is, you know, kids learning to read, there’s not a more important thing in their whole lives than learn to read. If they don’t learn how to read, their chances of success in school and really in life are so diminished that this is really important. And I was, you know, gratified to hear Speaker Vos when he gave his end of the session wrap up, he said this was the most important thing that we passed this session, too. And I think it really is. And so, you know, we have to get this going. And I think, I think we’ll see progress pretty quickly.

Frederica Freyberg:
Because going back to Wisconsin’s reading test scores, what is that like for you as someone who works on these issues to see that?

Joel Kitchens:
Yeah, it’s pretty awful. And you know, our African American students have fallen from where they used to be, kind of middle of the pack. Now they’re dead last in the country. So we have got to turn that around. It’s just — it should really scare people to think of what that means to the future of these kids. And then you throw the pandemic in on top of it, where some of those kids just — and unfortunately, especially in our big cities, didn’t have any real instruction for a year. Well, you can’t take a year off from school when you’re in first, second, third grade and think you’re going to make up for it later.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right, Representative Kitchens, thanks very much.

Joel Kitchens:
Well, thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
A lawsuit once again challenging Wisconsin’s decade old Act 10 law heard oral arguments this week in a Dane County court. The suit is brought by multiple unions and individuals representing public employees, who argue they have been adversely affected by Act 10. Act 10 or the budget repair bill was signed into law in 2011 by then Republican Governor Scott Walker, prompting weeks of protests that drew as many as 100,000 people to the Capitol. The law prohibits general public employees from collective bargaining but exempts public safety employees like police and firefighters. The distinctions between these two groups and how they’re applied is the basis of the lawsuit.

Jacob Karabell:
There are simply not substantial distinctions that make the class of general employees, as defined in Act 10, different from the class of public safety employees. There’s no substantial distinction, for example, between on the one hand, the Capitol Police, the UW Police and conservation wardens, all of whom are law enforcement officials with arrest authority who are deemed general employees.

Misha Tseytlin:
The substantial distinction between the classifications here, I think that this court can acquire to that, but cannot under rational basis with respect, get into some of the minutia that my friends have attempted to interject this court into.

Frederica Freyberg:
The Wisconsin Pension Fund, ranked as one of the most fiscally sound in the nation, took bold action this year. It invested in Bitcoin. Most all government workers are part of the Employee Trust Fund that pays out retirement benefits. But for a pension fund widely known for being stable, prudent and smart with investments, is this a departure or right on brand? Our next guest says it’s certainly turning heads. We should note PBS Wisconsin employees are participants in the Wisconsin Retirement System. We are joined by David Krause, Marquette University emeritus associate professor of finance. And thanks very much for being here.

David Krause:
Yes, thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what is the reaction within the kind of investment industry to this news?

David Krause:
The investment industry is pretty amazed that a pension fund this early in the introduction of the Bitcoin ETF came on board. They expected it might take several years before there would be institutional involvement with Bitcoin investing.

Frederica Freyberg:
So Bitcoin ETF is different and apart from the kind of bitcoins that folks might have in their digital wallets.

David Krause:
Yeah, that’s right. It was January of this year that the Spot Bitcoin ETF was approved by the SEC. That allowed investors like the university systems or SWIB, in this case, the Wisconsin Investment Board, to buy directly these securities that are regulated by the SEC, highly liquid and traded on exchanges.

Frederica Freyberg:
Still, was it a surprise to you to see that?

David Krause:
It was, but Wisconsin’s investment board has always been innovative. This is a fully funded pension fund. So in a way, they have the luxury of being able to invest for the long term. They don’t need to worry as much about liquidity as, say, the pension fund for the state of Illinois, which is only funded at 50% of its level.

Frederica Freyberg:
Should it cause pensioners though, or workers, to worry given the volatility of Bitcoin?

David Krause:
A lot of assets are volatile. If you really were to look deep down into the portfolio, you would see that a lot of assets, including some stocks as well as some other alternative investments are quite volatile in nature. Yeah, Bitcoin has moved around a lot, but supply and demand are starting to balance out. And I do think the investment community is beginning to understand this more as a viable alternative investment.

Frederica Freyberg:
So how much are they putting into Bitcoin compared to the fund itself?

David Krause:
Compared to the fund itself, it’s just a toe in the water. It’s 1/10 of 1%. Now $180 million is not pocket change. But this is a $180 billion fund. I think it’s just an entry point. I think they’re testing to see the reaction of the public to whether or not there’s resistance to owning this. And they’re using it as a trial run, because it really is not going to impact the portfolio substantial, until you get to maybe a 1% or 2% positioning.

Frederica Freyberg:
Because I was going to ask you, what does your expertise tell you about whether this is a good investment for the pension fund?

David Krause:
Well, it’s a good investment in the sense that it’s going to add diversification. The objective of a portfolio manager or a fund is to maximize return while minimizing risk. Bitcoin, like other alternative investments, does not move in parallel with stocks and bonds. So therefore it adds nice diversification effect. The potential upside returns are high as it could be with any new technology. And finally, because this is a currency with a limited supply, it actually can serve as an inflation hedge. I don’t think very many people talk about the potential for it to remove volatility of government actions.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you expect other states to follow suit? Watch this closely and follow?

David Krause:
Oh I do, I do. Now I don’t expect those that are underfunded can afford to do that because this is a long play. I mean, the state of Wisconsin can afford to go through maybe several cycles. I think the long term trend of this type of assets is going to be upward slope, but there’s going to be dips. There’s going to be peaks, but if you’re a pension fund with low liquidity, you really can’t afford long plays.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you feel like Wisconsin’s investment in Bitcoin legitimizes it?

David Krause:
It does. The day that it was announced — that’s when the SEC 13F form became available to the public, that day Bitcoin went up 1%. Now is it solely attributable to the fact that an institutional investor bought those? I think so. So I think the market did pay attention to that. And I would not be surprised to see other institutional investors move into this asset category.

Frederica Freyberg:
David Krause, thanks very much.

David Krause:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
A second attempt to recall Republican Assembly Speaker Robin Vos was set in motion this week with the delivery of 9,000 petition signatures to the Wisconsin Elections Commission. Speaker Vos has been the focus of derision from Donald Trump and his supporters after refusing to decertify Wisconsin’s 2020 election results.
Starting in October, 265 emergency pantries in Wisconsin that accept donations from the Federal Emergency Food Assistance Program can no longer ask visitors to verify their address in order to access free food. This new state rule comes as food pantries are seeing an explosion in need, and such verification can be a barrier to access. But could it also result in shortages at popular locations like the Oshkosh Area Community Pantry that saw a 70% increase in usage last year? We ask its executive director, Ryan Rasmussen, and thanks very much for being here.

Ryan Rasmussen:
Thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:
So as we’ve said, your pantry has seen a major surge in demand in the last few years. How related is that surge to the end of extra food share benefits available during the COVID pandemic?

Ryan Rasmussen:
Absolutely extremely relevant. We saw a massive spike last year around the March time frame, right when food share benefits were starting to go back to pre-pandemic levels and at the exact same time that that was happening, we were also seeing inflation at the highest we’ve seen in a long time. Food prices were skyrocketing. Groceries and gas, everything was just through the roof. So all of it culminated in a really perfect storm of a lot of expensive things and folks needing some additional help.

Frederica Freyberg:
So your location also operates more like a regular grocery store where people can choose the food they need or want. How much does that influence its popularity do you think?

Ryan Rasmussen:
I think we’re extremely popular because of that. We are firm believers in the dignity and respect of all of our guests and so we truly believe that there’s power in choice. And so we believe through that choice, folks retain their dignity. And so rather than getting a pre-loaded box of food, folks are able to come shop our aisles just like they would any other grocery store. Really providing a dignified shopping experience as opposed to a pre-loaded box of food. And so for us, we’re extremely popular because of that model, because folks are able to shop like us — shop, shop with us like anybody else.

Frederica Freyberg:
So in fact, you see hundreds of people from outside your county visiting your pantry. Can you keep up with that demand?

Ryan Rasmussen:
Yeah, I think it’s going to be interesting, especially as we talk about the new TEFAP regulations that are coming in. I certainly agree that, you know, creating a barrier-free opportunity for guests is super important, and we value that and we believe that also. But I think there’s some logistical concerns that we really need to think through in order to make this happen. And obviously ensuring that, you know, there’s plenty of food to go around to all the pantries that need it is one of them. And I think one of the things we’ll have to look at is how can we redistribute that food in a food system where food is available, you can get it, but how can we allocate it the right way to the pantries that need it that are seeing some major increases?

Frederica Freyberg:
So that’s what you mean when you talk about the logistical challenges, potentially like moving it from out of your county into another?

Ryan Rasmussen:
Yeah, exactly. And some of the other pieces that we have to think about too is with these regulations, you know, without being able to verify proof of address for pantries that have service areas like we do and I assume a lot of other pantries throughout the state, there’s really a couple of ways that we’re thinking about having to distribute this product. We’ll either have to separate the inventory or we’re going to have to reduce and eliminate the service areas. And so with that comes a lot of logistical pieces, especially in our store, the model that we have where, you know, being set up like a grocery store, having multiple programs in that store could create some additional confusion for our guests.

Frederica Freyberg:
Because how much of the food in your pantry comes from the Federal Emergency Food Assistance Program?

Ryan Rasmussen:
Yeah, right now it’s about anywhere from 15% to 20% of the overall food that we get. And so although that percentage doesn’t seem really high, the actual quantity and the quality of the food that we’re getting is fantastic. We’re taking advantage of a milk program where we’re able to get direct to farmer to pantry milk for free. A lot of produce comes from the TEFAP program, as well as some of the high protein rich foods that we look for in canned goods. So although the overall quantity isn’t huge, the quality of it is really good. So it’s something we wouldn’t want to sacrifice losing.

Frederica Freyberg:
How has the clientele of your pantry changed over the past several years?

Ryan Rasmussen:
Yeah, we certainly have seen — and a lot of pantries experience this — the age demographic for pantry users generally skews a little older, and we’ve seen that age demographic come down quite significantly for us, especially as we were talking about when food share benefits were rolled back. You know, we were seeing a lot of middle-income folks who generally were on the bubble before where they made too much to qualify for services, but not enough to make ends meet are the ones that are really now the ones that are being affected by what’s happening. And so all that does is we’re seeing a lot more families. We’re seeing a lot more children. We’re seeing a lot more of that younger demographic of folks that are coming in who are needing the extra help.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Well, Ryan Rasmussen, thanks very much.

Ryan Rasmussen:
I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Frederica Freyberg:
Spring storms have pounded Wisconsin in recent weeks, but parts of the state are still experiencing a long-term drought that can cause problems for marine life that need high water levels to survive. “Here & Now” reporter Nathan Denzin has more on one species that has been hit particularly hard.

Ellen Voss:
We reached peak drought severity in September of last year.

Mark Cupp:
To just see that crash with almost no rain for a long time was very disturbing.

Nathan Denzin:
It’s been a very dry few years for Wisconsin.

Lisie Kitchel:
I started getting lots of phone calls from people saying there’s all these mussels out there and they’re, you know, they’re stranded there. They’re dying. What can we do?

Nathan Denzin:
It’s had a significant impact on a species we hardly think about.

Jean Unmuth:
I was no longer picking up a mussel and placing it gently in the water. I was throwing them as fast as I could.

Nathan Denzin:
Much of southern Wisconsin has been in a perpetual drought since about 2021, straining aquatic resources. Despite spring rains, drought is still hitting the southwestern part of the state right now near the Wisconsin River.

Mark Cupp:
We didn’t see much rain in the fall. Our usual fall rise did not occur. And then really, a paucity of snow, especially in northern Wisconsin.

Nathan Denzin:
Mark Cupp is the executive director of the Lower Wisconsin State Riverway Board, where he works with the Wisconsin River from Prairie du Sac to the Mississippi.

Mark Cupp:
With no snow, we didn’t see anything happen with our spring flow that we usually see.

Ellen Voss:
Droughts are very stressful to aquatic organisms as well.

Nathan Denzin:
Ellen Voss is the climate resilience director with the Wisconsin River Alliance.

Ellen Voss:
There’s just less space for the things that animals and plants and insects and everything else need to survive.

Nathan Denzin:
One animal that can be squeezed out by low water is mussels.

Lisie Kitchel:
They’re basically just, you know, a mollusk with two shells and they live in the rivers and lakes, rivers and streams of Wisconsin.

Nathan Denzin:
Lisie Kitchel is a mussel expert at the Wisconsin DNR.

Lisie Kitchel:
They don’t have a brain and they don’t have eyes. So they, you know, they can’t just figure out where the deeper water is.

Nathan Denzin:
She says there are tens of thousands of mussels on the bed of the Wisconsin River, including 40 different species.

Lisie Kitchel:
They filter as much as ten gallons of water a day per mussel and when there are hundreds of thousands of them, they really help purify the water.

Nathan Denzin:
But when the drought reached its peak in September, mussels started to wash up on shore banks.

Jean Unmuth:
What I was really looking for was actually historic artifacts because the water was so low, I’d never seen it this low in the time I’ve lived here.

Nathan Denzin:
Jean Unmuth is a retired DNR scientist who lives near the Wisconsin River in Prairie du Sac. She was the first person to contact experts when she saw stranded mussels.

Jean Unmuth:
Mussels are a huge part of the ecology of this river.

Nathan Denzin:
Because dams act as a barrier for some aquatic species, almost all of the mussels in the Wisconsin River can be found below Prairie du Sac.

Jean Unmuth:
So I thought, hey, I’d better ring the alarm.

Nathan Denzin:
The dam here is the last of 26 on the waterway.

Lisie Kitchel:
Because we had such a drought year, the dam did not have water to release.

Nathan Denzin:
Many of the dams on the Wisconsin, including Prairie du Sac, have strict federal regulations. While dams keep a reservoir of water on hand to generate electricity, federally regulated dams are not allowed to release more water than they receive.

Mark Cupp:
Whatever comes into Lake Wisconsin at the very head of the lake comes through the dam.

Nathan Denzin:
Those dams are called “run of river dams” because any water that comes in must go out. Alliant Energy, which owns the Prairie du Sac dam, in a statement said, “Our license requires us to maintain the water level. Therefore we cannot release more water during drought conditions. Not all dams on the Wisconsin River are licensed as “run of river” facilities and some may manipulate water levels.

Ellen Voss:
In this scenario on paper, nobody did anything wrong. Everybody was in their — in compliance with their license obligations the entire time. And yet the outcome was thousands or tens of thousands — we don’t know — dead mussels on the river.

Nathan Denzin:
That meant the only solution to save the mussels was to physically walk the shore banks and throw them back into the river.

Ellen Voss:
We put out a call to action just saying, we know that this is a problem. If you’re able to help, please go out to the river.

Jean Unmuth:
It was getting to where I was spending three to four hours — forget the artifacts — I was no longer looking at that.

Lisie Kitchel:
There were thousands of mussels saved. I mean, individuals were picking up a 100 mussels a day, 300 mussels a day. I mean, it was pretty amazing what people were willing to do.

Nathan Denzin:
Unmuth saved more than 1200 herself.

Jean Unmuth:
Multiple that times 365 days a year and just those 1200 mussels, you’re filtering like over 3 million gallons of water.

Mark Cupp:
I know that we made a difference and that will pay dividends down the road.

Nathan Denzin:
Extended forecasts for the summer show that for the fourth straight year, drought conditions are likely.

Mark Cupp:
Let’s just assume that we run into a similar situation and we don’t have rain, particularly in the northeast and central part of the state, then the answer would be easy, and that is yes, we will need to do mussel rescues again.

Ellen Voss:
There is a live, phone tree mussel rescue alert system in place.

Lisie Kitchel:
They can also contact me anytime and I can give them advice as to what to do.

Nathan Denzin:
Until the time comes to walk the shore banks again, experts’ eyes will be glued to the weather. For “Here & Now,” I’m Nathan Denzin in Prairie du Sac.

Frederica Freyberg:
For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. To see all of our election coverage, visit WisconsinVote.org. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:
Funding for ” Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.