Podcasts

Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production. You’re watching “Here & Now” 2024 election coverage.

Ann Walsh Bradley:
I have been around for a couple of decades.

Zac Schultz:
Another contender enters the state Supreme Court race to replace Justice Ann Walsh Bradley, plus treating addiction in Wisconsin prisons.

Amanda Church:
They’re like, you know, you’re just a junkie, like, sit it out. That’s why you’re here and you’re a criminal.

Zac Schultz:
Good evening. I’m Zac Schultz filling in for Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” prison reform and calls to close two of the state’s maximum-security institutions. We look at LGBTQ safety and Pride Month and a look ahead to the Republican National Convention next month. It’s “Here & Now” for June 14th.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
The calls to close prisons in Waupun and Green Bay have only increased in the last week, after the warden of Waupun Correctional and several employees were charged with felonies in the wake of multiple inmate deaths in the last year. Dant’e Cottingham is with Stop the Torture, a group pushing for the end of abuse in prisons. Thank you for joining us today.

Dant’e Cottingham:
Thank you for having me.

Zac Schultz:
So what was your first reaction when you heard that there were arrests and charges in relation to the warden and the correctional officers at Waupun?

Dant’e Cottingham:
Well, to be honest with you, first and foremost, I was shocked and I was shocked primarily because the conditions that led to these arrests and to the death of those men are conditions that’s been common practice for a very long time.

Zac Schultz:
Does it feel like accountability then for someone actually to be charged with that?

Dant’e Cottingham:
Definitely accountability and I’m happy that it happened. I would also be extremely happy to see accountability for some of the other conditions in other prisons, including Green Bay and some of the other prisons around the state.

Zac Schultz:
The death of one of the inmates specifically was ruled a homicide but no one will be charged for that, and instead, their abuse of a resident of a penal facility or misconduct in office. Do you think someone should be charged with homicide?

Dant’e Cottingham:
Absolutely. I think the system in itself should be charged. There — as I said, the common practice in the state of Wisconsin — when I heard about the fact that they — inadequate medication being distributed to the men, that’s common practice. That’s something that happened often. So then not only should the person here be held accountable, but I think the entire Department of Corrections should be held accountable as well.

Zac Schultz:
Part of your story is that you spent time in Green Bay Correctional, correct?

Dant’e Cottingham:
I spent a total of 27 years in prison. I spent 11 years in Green Bay. So part of my frustration is that this has been happening for a very long time. And a lot of times the public just aren’t aware of it.

Zac Schultz:
So when you were in Green Bay Correctional, how did you view the guards? Were they overworked? Understaffed? Uncaring? Did you view them in a morality sense?

Dant’e Cottingham:
Green Bay was completed in the 1800s, so it’s a very, very old prison. And the culture in the men and women that worked there was influenced by that as well. So there was, without question, a couple staff that was, that was that treated you humanely. But primarily most of the staff did not unfortunately.

Zac Schultz:
And is that just a product of the system, like are they trained and brought up that way, or is that the type of people that are attracted to that job?

Dant’e Cottingham:
I think all, all of the above and I think part of the reason is training. I believe that the Wisconsin Department of Corrections should focus on training people with trauma informed care approach.

Zac Schultz:
So members of both political parties have shown that they’re not interested in spending the hundreds of millions, or perhaps even billion dollars plus it would take to shut down these prisons and build a new facility. What in your view, will it take for them to be forced to do something?

Dant’e Cottingham:
They did an audit on Green Bay and they found out that 95% of Green Bay, the prison itself, is structurally inhabitable, right. So it’s not safe for the men that live there. It’s not safe for the men and women that work there. There needs to be some accountability with regards to their lives as well. So I’m, I’m not sure what it’s going to take, but what I, what I am sure about is that Stop the Torture Coalition will be there to highlight all of the things that’s wrong with it and to organize around the state and make sure that that, that, that we’re there to support the men and women that’s, that’s currently incarcerated.

Zac Schultz:
In regards to your coalition, have you seen more movement? Have you had more calls since this happened?

Dant’e Cottingham:
I have gotten a lot of calls since we began. I just got a call from somebody named Tom not too long ago, heard about it, reached out and said they want to get involved. There’s a lot. This issue, unfortunately, is impacting a lot of people. And there’s growing support. And anyone who’s interested in getting involved, please go to my website Dant’eCottingham.com. There’s a Stop the Torture tab. You can, you can leave me a message and we can connect there.

Zac Schultz:
There are federal lawsuits that are being filed. There’s been federal investigations. The FBI is looking into Waupun. Do you think it will be a financial penalty that it makes the state do this, or will it be a federal lawsuit that shuts something down? Does it have to go beyond the state, in your opinion, to actually make change?

Dant’e Cottingham:
Well, we’ll see with this investigation. We’ll see what happens with this investigation. This investigation is a step in the right direction. It’s brand new. I don’t think it’s ever happened in the state of Wisconsin. So hopefully things are moving in the right direction. But again, the Stop the Torture Coalition will be there to hold everybody accountable. And whatever we have to do to make sure that happens, we’ll protest, we’ll organize, we’ll be there. So and again, just to say very clearly, we’re not anti-DOC. We — the, the people that’s been impacted by this issue are simply anti-torture. We’re anti-inhumane conditions. So we’re willing to work with the DOC and anybody else who values humanity, that values justice and equality.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Dant’e Cottingham, thanks for coming in today.

Dant’e Cottingham:
Thank you for having me.

Zac Schultz:
Treatment is a key word in corrections, not only in how inmates are treated, but whether those struggling with addiction can get access to treatment. “Here & Now” reporter Aditi Debnath and PBS Wisconsin are collaborating with Wisconsin Public Radio’s “America Amplified” project, asking people what issues matter to them this election season. This is the first story in that series.

Amanda Church:
Some people don’t have anybody, and on your release day, you get your boxes and you are put out on the doorstep, like, if you have a place to go or not.

Aditi Debnath:
More than 6600 people were released from Wisconsin prisons in 2023. That’s roughly 550 every month. For those with substance use disorders, that reentry period is critical.

Elizabeth Salisbury-Afshar:
And so at the time of reentry, we know that rates of returning to use, to substance use are very high. That in combination with someone having now really no tolerance, puts them at super high risk for having an overdose if they return to use.

Aditi Debnath:
Dr. Elizabeth Salisbury-Afshar is a public health expert at UW-Madison. She treats patients with substance use disorders at UW’s Behavioral Health and Recovery Clinic.

Elizabeth Salisbury-Afshar:
If you compare rates of overdose in Wisconsin to national numbers, we are definitely one of the states with higher overdose rates.

Amanda Church:
I was naive to a lot of that.

Aditi Debnath:
Amanda Church is a care provider at an assisted living facility in Monroe County, and a mother of two. She was released from the Taycheedah prison in Fond du Lac in 2022 for drug related offenses.

Amanda Church:
Oh, just try this. You know it’s not going to hurt you. You’ll never get addicted. And you believe that as a kid, like that you have the willpower to not get stuck using those drugs. And it goes downhill from there and fast.

Aditi Debnath:
Less than 10% of people that complete the Wisconsin Department of Corrections substance use treatment program are re-incarcerated during their first year of release, but there’s a massive wait list for the program. Alisha Kraus is the director of program services for the DOC’s adult prisons.

Alisha Kraus:
We understand that there’s a large number of our population that needs assistance in working through their substance use disorders.

Aditi Debnath:
Roughly 845 people in the DOC’s facilities are currently enrolled in a substance use disorder treatment program. Yet more than 11,000 people are on the waitlist.

Alisha Kraus:
We would like to be able to serve every single person that we come into contact with at the highest level that they need in terms of intervention and more research, more resources would allow us to do that.

Aditi Debnath:
In the current state budget, the Legislature declined to fund Evers’ proposal for expanded substance use disorder programing. That includes things like mental health education and early release opportunities. Detoxing abruptly in prison can be dangerous and ineffective in the long term.

Amanda Church:
You’d have the chills and then you’d be high. You couldn’t get comfortable, throwing up, the race thoughts because you’re just starting to get your feelings back and like, you instantly go into that regret and shame and guilt and all that.

Aditi Debnath:
Medication for opioid use disorder is one treatment that the DOC is trying to make more accessible. Dr. Salisbury-Afshar explains a couple of reasons why medications like methadone work.

Elizabeth Salisbury-Afshar:
The first is we know these medications save lives. They are first line treatments.

Alisha Kraus:
We’re piloting a medication-assisted treatment program at one of our facilities in Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Secure Detention Facility, with plans already rolling out to expand that to other sites within the division.

Elizabeth Salisbury-Afshar:
A second reason is that while people are incarcerated, it is the legal responsibility of the jail or the prison, whatever environment someone is in to provide adequate health care.

Aditi Debnath:
In the current budget, the Legislature provided more than $4.6 million to expand access to medication for opioid use disorder in prisons. That’s different from the rejected proposal, which sought to expand programing.

Elizabeth Salisbury-Afshar:
The third reason, I would say, is I just think this is morally imperative.

Aditi Debnath:
Morally imperative, she says, because this medication that’s not widely available in prisons can prevent overdose deaths and reduce continued drug use and reincarceration rates. Church says that she received medications meant to treat some of her withdrawal symptoms, but not her substance use disorder.

Amanda Church:
They don’t have no sympathy for that. They’re like, you know, you’re just a junkie, like, sit it out. That’s why you’re here and you’re a criminal. And a lot of the employees aren’t there to help you.

Aditi Debnath:
Experts say people in recovery from substance use need continued support, safety and community to continue their recovery.

Amanda Church:
The only support you have is the other people that are going through the same thing as you.

Demell Glenn:
Our peers, most of them feel like nobody cares, nobody understands.

Aditi Debnath:
Demell Glenn is a peer support specialist at Just Dane, a nonprofit that supports people affected by incarceration.

Demell Glenn:
If you’ve been through addiction and you’ve been to prison for 15 years and now you’re doing this, I want to know how you did that.

Aditi Debnath:
He says his own path to recovery could have started earlier if he’d had someone to relate to.

Demell Glenn:
I want to know how you got here because I’ve been trying to do this for 20 years, and I’ve been failing for 20 years.

Aditi Debnath:
Glenn makes himself accessible as a lifeline to people who are in crisis and want to use again.

Demell Glenn:
I just let them know, like, hey, before you make that decision, call me, please. And I’ve had individuals call me like, hey, you know, I’m in a bad spot. I, I want to use. I, you know, this isn’t going right. And I’m like, well, where are you? Let’s talk.

Aditi Debnath:
For Demell Glenn and Amanda Church, recovery is an active choice to make every day.

Amanda Church:
It’s hard to get out of that unless like something dramatically changes your life and getting caught was probably the best thing that happened to me.

Demell Glenn:
Your contribution to this community is important, way more important than addiction or incarceration.

Aditi Debnath:
For “Here & Now,” I’m Aditi Debnath.

Zac Schultz:
June is Pride Month, a celebration of the culture of the LGBTQ community meant to raise awareness and acceptance. Despite broader acceptance of LGBTQ lifestyles in society, there is a wave of conservative backlash targeting transgender people specifically. Reiko Ramos is the anti-violence director for Diverse and Resilient, the state’s largest organization focused on the health, well-being, and safety of LGBTQ residents in Wisconsin. Thanks for joining us today.

Reiko Ramos:
Hi. Thank you for having me.

Zac Schultz:
What do you see as the main threats to the safety and well-being of the LGBTQ community?

Reiko Ramos:
I think for the LGBTQ community, there are so — it’s constant and we are facing legislative threats, both across the country and in our own state, and much of what my program focuses on is also the interpersonal violence that happens and the hate-based violence that happens against our community. So the violence that we experience is happening on many levels.

Zac Schultz:
We’ve seen the legislation targeting transgender people, things and other things like drag shows, book bans. What is the overall effect on the mental health and then the physical health of people in the community?

Reiko Ramos:
It certainly has a mental health impact and particularly on trans youth. We know that affirming someone’s gender, using the correct pronouns and creating safe spaces where people belong, has a positive impact on, LGBTQ’s mental health and well-being, and we also have evidence that shows that the effects of stigma and discrimination on LGBTQ people has lasting effects on our well-being as well.

Zac Schultz:
Is there a direct connection between passing laws or even introducing laws, and that that mental aspect and then physical violence of people then feeling emboldened to take physical action against others?

Reiko Ramos:
Yes, I think there is a direct connection. People feel safer, and have a greater sense of belonging when we have those protections in place for LGBTQ people, and I can also tell you that something we’ve seen on our side of the work is that, when there is something big in the news, or something legislative, whether that’s positive or negative, coming down but will impact the LGBTQ community that we often see escalated instances of violence within our community, and our, our warmline activity often goes up because folks are safety planning around their individual safety and their day to day lives.

Zac Schultz:
We saw with abortion rights that a lot of people felt something like Roe v. Wade, for example, was settled law. And then the Supreme Court changed that. Court decisions that legalized gay marriage and other rights are much more recent. Is there a fear that those could be rolled back and things might radically change on the ground?

Reiko Ramos:
That fear is definitely a sentiment that I’ve heard in my community, and that’s one of the reasons why it’s important that we continue to keep advocating for safety and protection for LGBTQ folks. There’s a great deal of — we’re living in a time of a lot of fear and uncertainty, especially you know, in the context of we’re in a presidential election year, there’s a lot that can change in a relatively short amount of time.

Zac Schultz:
We’ve got less than a minute left. Give me your sense of what should people be taking away from something like Pride Month and having the governor fly the flag above the state capitol? What does that mean symbolically?

Reiko Ramos:
So one, I want people to really celebrate and enjoy Pride Month. Our pride and joy is radical and so important especially when people are trying to erase us, and then also remember that pride is one month out of the year, but let’s, let’s celebrate year round and support LGBTQ people 13 months out of the year, right.

Zac Schultz:
Reiko Ramos, thank you for your time today.

Reiko Ramos:
Thank you.

Zac Schultz:
In state news, the Wisconsin Supreme Court announced they have temporarily suspended a lawyer for Donald Trump’s campaign from his spot on the Judicial Conduct Advisory Committee. Jim Troupis was a lawyer for the Trump campaign in 2020 and was a key figure in the conspiracy to get fake electors to claim Wisconsin’s electoral votes for Trump. Troupis and two others were recently charged by Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul for forgery in their roles in the plot. Troupis was reappointed to the Judicial Committee in 2023 by the Wisconsin Supreme Court when it was still controlled by conservatives.

Liberals took a 4-3 majority last year with the election of Janet Protasiewicz. However, control of the court in the future will be determined by an election next April for the seat of retiring liberal Justice Ann Walsh Bradley. This week, Dane County Judge Susan Crawford announced she is officially running for the court and was immediately endorsed by liberals on the court. Crawford joins former Republican attorney general and current Waukesha County Judge Brad Schimel, who previously announced he was in the race.

Sticking with election news, the Wisconsin Elections Commission chose attorney Ann Jacobs as its chairperson this week. Jacobs, a Democrat, last held this role back during the presidential election of 2020. The vote to elect her as chair was unanimous.

And in Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Common Council approved Paulina Gutierrez to lead the city’s election commission.

Speaking of Milwaukee, we are just one month away from the city hosting the Republican National Convention and here to discuss all of the election optics, our political analysts Scot Ross and Bill McCoshen. Thank you, gentlemen, for your time today.

Bill McCoshen:
Thanks for having us.

Scot Ross:
Great to be here.

Zac Schultz:
So let’s start with the biggest X factor in this election, Donald Trump. Bill, yesterday it’s reported he told the House GOP conference that Milwaukee was “a horrible city.” Since then, we’ve seen 100 different explanations of what he meant. Does it even matter at this point if he says something like that?

Bill McCoshen:
Well, first of Bill McCoshen all, I want to say I love Milwaukee. I can’t wait to show it off to 50,000 Republicans from around the country. There’s a lot to do in Milwaukee. Great restaurants, great festivals, the Bucks, the Brewers. I mean, it’s a great city. They’ve got some challenges. Sure. People who are in the conference yesterday said that isn’t exactly what he said. The president himself has said he was talking about crime and election integrity. You know, my advice to the Trump campaign would be be very precise in your language from this point forward. He’s never going to get the benefit of the doubt. We know that sometimes his words are taken out of context. The congressmen who were in there from Wisconsin all said that isn’t what he said. So I’ll take him at his word that he did not say that. But I think he’s going to love Milwaukee when he gets here.

Zac Schultz:
Scot, Republicans have been bashing Milwaukee forever. So is this really out of context for them to say it’s a horrible city?

Scot Ross:
Absolutely not. And you know, again, we saw yesterday the chaos that results from Donald Trump owning the Republican Party. And you saw, I think, seven different stories from the six Republican members of Congress as to why they all, you know, why they all think Milwaukee is a horrible city. And I think it’s just going to play terribly. I think it’s, you know, again, I think it’s a sign of what’s going to happen because as we get closer to the election, Donald Trump’s tour of, you know, revenge, retribution, and doing whatever he can to stay out of prison is going to involve more of these incidents, I think. And Republicans then having to scramble to answer.

Bill McCoshen:
Let’s not forget he’s going to be in Racine on Tuesday of next week. So he’ll have an opportunity to answer this directly. And my hope is that he comes to Wisconsin and tells all voters what he loves about this state and why he wants to win here.

Zac Schultz:
So you said the magic word prison. July 11th is the date in which he is set to be sentenced in New York for criminal convictions. Do you think he’s accepting the nomination from Wisconsin, or is he in a jail cell, home confinement? What’s your prediction?

Scot Ross:
Well, I’m not in charge of the prosecution, so I can’t tell you where he’ll be for it. But I can tell you this. You know, being sentenced for 34 felonies related to a hush money that you were paying, you know, for an affair, you know, while your third wife was having your fifth kid, I don’t think is a message that Trump wants to, wants to go forward with. The problem is, is that when he tries to distract from it, he does things like horrible city. You know, it just keeps getting worse. And we’re not even talking about the issues: abortion, health care, infrastructure, all those sorts of things which the Republicans are on the wrong side of.

Zac Schultz:
Does it matter if Trump’s here?

Bill McCoshen:
Oh yeah, I think it does. I mean, the way he does conventions, he’s on the stage every night. That’s very unusual in our lifetime to see that. It’s usually the final night where the nominee gives the big speech. I expect him to be here. I expect him to be on the stage in some shape or fashion every single night. And again, I’m looking forward to showcasing Milwaukee. I think he’s going to find it to be an unbelievably cool city with a lot of opportunity to grow.

Zac Schultz:
So I want to switch to Wisconsin elections. We’re going to have new maps this fall. Democrats are contesting every possible race that they can get out there. Are we going to see something like 2016 where Ron Johnson ran ahead of Trump where — are there going to be distance between the Assembly and the Senate Republicans down ballot versus Trump up ballot, or how do they affect each other?

Bill McCoshen:
Yeah, it probably will be. My guess is Tammy Baldwin will run ahead of Joe Biden here in the state of Wisconsin. Ron Johnson did that with Donald Trump in 2016. It’s not unusual for the candidate to — who’s more relatable here locally to do better. How that plays down ballot, what we knew from 2016 and 2020 was Republican candidates for the Legislature did better than the top of the ticket across the state. I expect that to continue. We do have new boundaries this time around. All the races will be more competitive. My guess is Democrats will pick up seats in both Houses of the Legislature. I don’t think they’re going to have an opportunity to get a majority, because the top of the ticket is too close. That’s where things do come into play as it relates to the top of the ticket. If Biden were to run away with Wisconsin, could Democrats get one House? Probably. He’s not going to run away with Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
Does Biden need Democrats down ballot to help him win statewide?

Scot Ross:
I think it’s all a sort of bouillabaisse together to what brings victory to Joe Biden and to Tammy Baldwin. And I think Bill was right. You know, we are going to pick up seats. Democrats are going to pick up seats in the Senate and the Assembly, but what I think is going to happen is you have a, you have a guy at the top of the ticket, Donald Trump, who has to win Wisconsin to win the presidency.

Bill McCoshen:
Maybe.

Scot Ross:
And I think he has put himself out of running for winning Wisconsin Democrats have resources. The Democratic Party is all over the place. I think they’ve got 46 coordinated campaign offices. They’ve hired more than 100 people. They’ve outraised the Republicans 15 to 1, in terms of fundraising. And, you know, over and over and over again, Democrats are right on the issues. I think it’s important that Democrats are going to have competitive races in a lot of these areas. So it will drive out more turnout. Whether or not that affects the top of the ticket, I don’t know, because the money is going to be spent at the top of the ticket to reinforce those messages again about abortion and health care and infrastructure.

Bill McCoshen:
I agree with Scot. The Democrats will have a significant cash advantage from top to bottom and money is a factor. There’s no question about that. Organizationally I think we’ll be about even and on the message, I think it’s an advantage for Republicans this cycle.

Zac Schultz:
All right. A few seconds for each of you. What are you watching the next four weeks in the run up to Milwaukee?

Bill McCoshen:
I’m watching the most viewed presidential debate in history a week from now or two weeks from now between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. The first presidential debate in history before national nominating conventions. So I want to see how that plays out and does it impact the race because we know all the court cases to date have not shook the numbers.

Zac Schultz:
What about you?

Scot Ross:
I’m going to be watching the issues, be watching the way Democrats articulate the difference between what the Republicans offer and what they offer. And I think again, on those, Democrats win.

Zac Schultz:
Do you think there will be a debate?

Scot Ross:
I don’t. I actually think Trump is going to bail.

Bill McCoshen:
Wow.

Scot Ross:
I think Trump’s going to bail on it.

Zac Schultz:
Do you think there will be a debate? We’re going to be watching one?

Bill McCoshen:
Oh, he’ll be there. Yeah, he’ll be there.

Zac Schultz:
Will there be a second debate?

Bill McCoshen:
No.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Well, thank you both. We will see you soon and thank you for coming today.
And finally, a programing note. PBS Wisconsin will be on the ground at both the RNC in Milwaukee and the DNC in Chicago in August. Each night during the convention, we’ll have a short broadcast to give you the latest in Wisconsin news and be sure to tune in that Friday when “Here & Now” expands to a special one-hour program to break down the events of the week. And each day that week, you can find us online for a live webcast from the convention, where I’ll be joined by Bill McCoshen and Scot Ross, unbound by our usual time constraints. And hopefully we’ll have a lot more exciting things to be talking about each and every day.
For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and click on the news tab. To see all of our election coverage, visit WisconsinVote.org. That is our program for tonight. I’m Zac Schultz. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.