On "Here & Now," Murv Seymour covers how Kamala Harris stood with Wisconsin Democrats in West Allis to reinvigorate their party, Republicans are shifting their focus to criticize Kamala Harris and her 2024 campaign, Mordecai Lee discusses comparing 1968 and 2024 presidential elections with the DNC in Chicago and Nick Ramos discusses impacts of campaign contributions on elections after Joe Biden dropped out. Plus, Bill McCoshen and Scot Ross unpack Joe Biden withdrawing and Democrats supporting Kamala Harris. Listen to the entire episode of "Here & Now" for July 26, 2024.
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The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production. You’re watching “Here & Now” 2024 election coverage.
Kamala Harris:
The path to the White House goes through Wisconsin.
Frederica Freyberg:
Kamala Harris returns to Wisconsin, this time as the new Democratic presumptive nominee for president.
Kamala Harris:
When we fight, we win. God bless you.
Frederica Freyberg:
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” another big week for presidential politics focused in Wisconsin. We hear about the Harris visit to Milwaukee and how Republicans respond. Mordecai Lee expounds on the echoes of history from the 1968 Democratic National Convention. Then a look at how big donors may have tipped Biden to stand down. And our political panelists weigh in on it all. It’s “Here & Now” for July 26.
Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
Frederica Freyberg:
Joe Biden 2024 is out and Democrats are now chanting Kamala Harris’s name. Taking a page from the Republicans unifying around Trump last week, the Democratic Party this week quickly united behind Harris and secured the necessary delegate pledges to all but guarantee her nomination. That came mere days after Biden announced he was no longer planning to run. Kamala Harris already had a planned visit to Milwaukee this week, but as the vice presidential candidate. Instead, as Murv Seymour reports, the event became her first official campaign stop as candidate for president.
Ben Wikler:
Hello Wisconsin! [crowd cheering] Do we have Milwaukee in the house today?
Julie Landry:
Oh, the energy is high.
Murv Seymour:
A special summertime pep rally.
Julie Landry:
I think her saying that she’s going to run has re-energized the party.
Ben Wikler:
This is the land of Kamala Harris.
Murv Seymour:
It’s all playing center court inside the Bulldogs gymnasium at West Allis Central High School.
Jill Underly:
She’s ready to prosecute the case against Donald Trump.
Murv Seymour:
Surrounded by tight Secret Service protection, this rally has presidential implications.
Sarah Godlewski:
And we are united around Kamala.
Murv Seymour:
And people in the stands like Julie Landry know it.
Julie Landry:
She brings experience. She brings excellence. She brings commitment. She brings dedication. She brings intelligence. She brings energy. She brings hope.
Paul McCreary:
She can continue the work that Biden’s done so far in the past four years, continue to build on the economy that he’s kind of set a good baseline for and really take us to new places.
Murv Seymour:
Many tell me they’ve come to see history in the making as Vice President Kamala Harris declares game on in her sudden run for the White House.
Andrea O’Brien:
For me, at my age, to see a woman on that podium running for president means everything to me.
Murv Seymour:
Flanked between the state and American flags, days since the Republican National Convention was held less than eight miles away.
Sarah Godlewski:
So are you with me to roll up your sleeves and elect Kamala Harris?
Murv Seymour:
Candidate Harris comes to this suburban Milwaukee community with the support of some union groups, the Democratic National Party and Wisconsin Democrats.
Josh Kaul:
I have a simple question for you. Are you ready to elect Kamala Harris as the next president of the United States?
Murv Seymour:
Some of the state’s top liberals welcome her with their endorsements, and they want Wisconsinites and the nation to do the same.
Tammy Baldwin:
There’s a reason that she’s kicking things off right here in Wisconsin, because we are the battleground state.
Tony Evers:
Yesterday, I joined my favorite Midwestern governors, J.B. Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer and Tim Walz to announce that I am all in on Kamala Harris.
Murv Seymour:
In this, the first campaign stop of her 2024 presidential bid, candidate Harris gets an energized welcome from an enthused crowd of about 3,000 supporters.
[crowd cheering]
Kamala Harris:
Thank you all. Thank you.
Murv Seymour:
Like the speakers before, Harris thanks Joe Biden, who withdrew from reelection 48 hours before this event.
Kamala Harris:
Joe’s legacy of accomplishment over his entire career and over the past three and a half years is unmatched in modern history.
Murv Seymour:
With a hint of her campaign slogan, Harris makes her case against former president and Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump.
Kamala Harris:
Donald Trump intends to cut Social Security and Medicare. [crowd boos] He intends to give tax breaks to billionaires and big corporations and make working families foot the bill. [crowd boos] They intend to end the Affordable Care Act. [crowd boos]
Murv Seymour:
With childhood ties in nearby Madison, Vice President Harris tells this crowd she knows the path to the presidency cuts through West Allis and all of Wisconsin.
Kamala Harris:
So Wisconsin, today I ask you, are you ready to get to work? [crowd cheers] Do we believe in freedom? [crowd cheers] Do we believe in opportunity? [crowd cheers] Do we believe in the promise of America? [crowd cheers] And are we ready to fight for it? [crowd cheers] And when we fight, we win.
Murv Seymour:
As Harris wraps up her visit just outside the gymnasium, a huge Trump flag flies high as a handful of supporters lined the streets as a reminder that it’s now Team Trump versus Team Harris. Reporting for “Here & Now,” I’m Murv Seymour.
Frederica Freyberg:
Republicans are expectedly negative on Kamala Harris becoming the Democratic nominee. In a news call this week, they called her “Joe Biden, the sequel” and slammed the Biden-Harris administration policies.
Brian Schimming:
She, in fact, was rated as the most liberal member of the United States Senate. And we’ve seen that play out 8.5 million illegal immigrants pouring over the border when she was the named border czar. Kamala Harris supported defunding the police in San Francisco, Mayor Garcetti’s plan to cut $150 million from the police department’s budget, a ban on private health insurance, no to school choice, a ban on fracking, freeing violent criminals who are in prison for a reason. So there’s issue after issue after issue where Kamala Harris is not in sync with the people of Wisconsin or the people of America.
Frederica Freyberg:
Latest national polling puts VP Kamala Harris, even with former president Donald Trump in Wisconsin at 47% each. President Joe Biden this week took to the airwaves to say it was time to pass the torch. Presumptive nominee Harris served hand in hand with his administration. All of this harkens back to the last time a U.S. president decided not to run for reelection. The year was 1968. The wartime president who dropped out was Lyndon B. Johnson. The ensuing Democratic National Convention in Chicago that year devolved into chaos on and off the floor. Anti-Vietnam War protesters outside Convention Hall were swarmed by a massive police presence, violence that turned to riots. Inside delegates for antiwar candidate Eugene McCarthy, including those from Wisconsin, wanted to stop the madness.
Chairman:
Wisconsin.
Donald Peterson:
Mr. Chairman, most delegates to this convention do not know that thousands of young people are being beaten in the streets of Chicago.
Frederica Freyberg:
In the end, LBJ’s vice president, Hubert Humphrey, won the nomination.
Chairman:
21 and one-half votes for Senator McCarthy.
TV announcer:
This is going to do it.
Chairman:
And 103 and three quarters.
Frederica Freyberg:
UW Milwaukee political scientist Mordecai Lee remembers it like yesterday and Mordecai, thanks a lot for being here.
Mordecai Lee:
You’re welcome. I remember watching it in Milwaukee and it was just happening 90 miles down the road.
Frederica Freyberg:
Crazy. So this year, 2024 is topsy turvy, of course. Add to that the assassination attempt against Trump and Biden dropping out but was 1968 a whole different level?
Mordecai Lee:
1968 was a different level in terms of those emotions that you correctly captured about the war in Vietnam. But I don’t think they’re different from the political dynamic that’s going on. A Vice President Humphrey could not break with LBJ, could not become an antiwar candidate, but he wanted to separate himself from having to carry on his shoulders all the baggage that LBJ’s war had. And I think the same thing is happening with Harris. She needs to carry on her shoulders the weight of Biden’s unpopularity and of his policies, yet at the same time, to be a different candidate, to have a fresh take and that’s hard to tiptoe through the tulips.
Frederica Freyberg:
From what you’ve seen so far and it’s very early days, how do you think she’s doing in that regard?
Mordecai Lee:
I think in terms of the atmosphere of the campaign, she’s doing very well. When she visited Milwaukee just two days later, there was that excitement in the air, that enthusiasm, the very large crowd compared to earlier crowds on the Democratic side. So I think she got a boost. She got wind in her sails, but she isn’t breaking with Biden. And it’s really hard to tell if President Biden was unpopular because of his policies or if he was unpopular, not because of his policies, that for some reason just didn’t have the traction that, maybe his age, maybe his lack of energy. But she’s carrying something, and I think it might weigh her down as the months go by.
Frederica Freyberg:
Do you feel as though the unpopularity of LBJ, however, was different, heightened because this was about the Vietnam War?
Mordecai Lee:
There’s no doubt that it was different because the emotions from Democrats against LBJ and therefore against Humphrey was coming from that direction. Now, the emotion against Biden is not coming from Democrats. It’s coming from Republicans. So I think the dynamic is different. But nonetheless, I think she’s going to feel a pressure to somehow not quite disavow Biden, but she’s got to separate herself from him and especially have a different vision for the next four years.
Frederica Freyberg:
So given what we talked about how the convention devolved in 1968, the convention itself, it doesn’t seem likely, does it, that that would happen at the Democratic Convention coming up in just a couple of weeks?
Mordecai Lee:
No, I think it will be totally different from 1968. I think this is going to be a very placid convention. It’s going to be, in a sense, the same image as the RNC was last week. It’ll be supporting one candidate. All the speeches will be supportive of that candidate, and they’ll be looking for unity and sort of momentum as they come out of the convention.
Frederica Freyberg:
We said at the top that you remember 1968 like yesterday. How indelible do you think 2024 will be for you?
Mordecai Lee:
I think very indelible. I think the last two weeks we’ve had two political tsunamis. First came the assassination attempt, and thank goodness, his survival. And then the wind that it put in his sails at the RNC. And so there was this sense of that he would be a unity candidate. And then he gave his acceptance speech and it wasn’t only a speech about unity, it was also a speech with his criticisms of Biden and the Democrats and so he lost a little bit of momentum. But I think the timing of when Biden decided to drop out really had to do with the RNC. I think Biden was resisting, resisting. But then when he saw the political impact of surviving the assassination attempt and the unity of the RNC, that’s when he decided he just had to drop out. And that was the second tsunami less than a week ago, unbelievably, where he dropped out and she picked up where he left off. And I’m guessing that these two tectonic events have sort of negated each other. That now we’re back at go and the campaigns will unfold from this point on.
Frederica Freyberg:
We leave it there. Mordecai Lee, thanks so much.
Mordecai Lee:
You’re welcome.
Frederica Freyberg:
It’s widely reported that one big reason Joe Biden was pressured to drop out of the race was because of big dollar contributions to his campaign from major donors were on track to drop by half if he stayed in like, from $50 million in June to a projected $25 million. Now, we’ve gotten used to astronomical campaign funding numbers, but where does this big money in politics leave the average voter? We turn to Nick Ramos, executive director of the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign, which tracks expenditures. And Nick, thanks a lot for being here.
Nick Ramos:
It’s a treat to be here.
Frederica Freyberg:
So to that question, who is running the show when it comes to choosing candidates?
Nick Ramos:
Oh, I mean, I think you have to look to the wealthiest of the wealth. I mean, if you look to just the way that our campaign finance laws are structured, especially in a state like Wisconsin, you can just look back to 2015 and under the Walker administration, that campaign finance law rewrite that we saw, it really created a scenario where it’s like the Wild West here. It’s a scenario where individuals are able to donate and max out instead of $10,000, you can max $20,000 to, within the state, to the governor, or to the Supreme Court. You can do unlimited amounts of campaign donations to political parties and committees. And then it took off the guardrails as far as the transactions between the committees and the political parties. And so it almost has created this money laundering scenario, where now we get into a federal election where, let’s say you’ve maxed out to your candidate of choice in a presidential election, you can only max out $3,300. But let’s say you got a lot of money that you want to spend, you’d go straight to the party of your choice, or you’d go straight to the committee of your choice, and you can just write a blank check and then they can take that and go straight to the campaign. And so for people like you and I, who I mean, I don’t sit on tens of thousands or even millions of dollars that I get to play with every day, we get to look on the outside looking in, and they’re over here playing kingmaker, trying to pick the candidate that’s going to do their bidding and going to serve their bottom line and do their agenda. And so we’ve been in desperate need of campaign finance reform for so long. And Citizens United has opened the floodgates and Pandora’s box in a way that it leaves the everyday citizen a little less powerful than what we could be if there were better regulations to actually give us a better seat at the table.
Frederica Freyberg:
So, over the course of the past 14 years that Citizens United has, that ruling has been in place. What are the numbers look like in this cycle in terms of spending?
Nick Ramos:
I mean, before we — before we were coming into this year, I was just studying last year and an off year and here in Wisconsin, I mean, we broke records. I mean, we were at $56 or $55 million spent on a nonpartisan Supreme Court seat. And then coming into this year, both the head of the Democratic Party and the head of the Republican Party, both said, we’re predicting that we’re going to break records this year. And now we’re in 2024, a presidential year. We’ve got new maps. We’ve got constitutional amendments. We have all these things happening. And so the electorate is really paying attention, and it’s looking like we’re on pace to break even more records. And like in the Senate race between Baldwin and Hovde, Hovde, they’re already in the top ten as far as money raised and money spent, in the entire U.S. And so we’re right now, I mean, like I said, the Wild West. I mean, I think that’s just minimizing it.
Frederica Freyberg:
Is there a particular party that has the edge in this money raising?
Nick Ramos:
I mean, as far as edge, I think — I don’t know necessarily if that’s the way to look at it, because both parties know what the animal is in the room, which is they need to outraise the other party. But when you look at, at least in a state like Wisconsin, I can tell you this much, from the numbers, it looks like the Republican Party has been taking more out of state money than the Democrat Party. It looks like that way. At least that’s how the trends are. And so and that’s interesting just because, I mean, here in Wisconsin, I mean, we live here and, people here obviously want to have skin in the game. And so if there’s people that are coming in from out of state and there’s dark money, they don’t want necessarily people making decisions on their lives if they’re just outside the state throwing money and then making decisions. And so, to that point, I think both parties are doing everything in their power to try and find the ways to try and shore up as much money and burn it as fast as possible so that they can try and get their candidate in office.
Frederica Freyberg:
Because it is an arms race. Nick Ramos, thanks very much.
Nick Ramos:
Thank you.
Frederica Freyberg:
Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are now sparring over when and where to debate each other. What a change up just off the Republican National Convention. We had to have political panelists Republican Bill Coshen and Democrat Scot Ross back again for reaction to fast moving election news. And thank you guys for coming back to talk with us.
Bill Coshen:
Great to be back.
Scot Ross:
Thanks for giving us a locker here.
Frederica Freyberg:
Yeah, exactly. So just since last Friday, Joe Biden stepped aside and Kamala Harris stepped in. I want to go first to you, Bill McCoshen, and ask your reaction to that.
Bill McCoshen:
Well, Dems did their best to snap off any bounce from the RNC for Donald Trump. That’s for sure. I mean, you look at the point in history we’re at, we have had three seismic shifts in the last 30 days. First was the early debate on June 27th, which was fatal, really, for Joe Biden. Then you had an assassination attempt and then you have a candidate, a major candidate, dropping out with 107 days to go in the race. At no point in our 248-year history have we ever seen anything like this. So I think people ought to keep this all in perspective. How much change there that has occurred just in the last 30 days?
Frederica Freyberg:
Scot, your reaction?
Scot Ross:
Well, you know, everything that Bill said was correct. So this is what it sounds like when doves cry. You know, I mean, it is an absolute and complete turnaround for where the Democrats were both fundraising wise, enthusiasm, you know, across the board. I mean, I would not have wanted to be a part of the Monday morning, you know, July 22nd Breakfast Club with Trump having to see what they had to deal with that day because they knew. I mean, you know, Kamala Harris raised $81 million the first day. And now I think, I think by the end of the week they had about a quarter of a million between that and the super PACs.
Bill McCoshen:
Yeah.
Scot Ross:
It was, I mean, it’s an extraordinary — it’s an extraordinary show of support. But it’s also that unity with Dems like it had not been there. It had not been there.
Frederica Freyberg:
Dems are energized by the change, no doubt about it. And, you know, we’ll see if there’s somewhat of a sugar high here and that sort of melts over time. I think, you know, for the next 30 days, Republicans ought to be prepared for a tough race all the way through the fall.
Scot Ross:
Yeah, I think I could be — I mean, I’m a broken record on this, but just the historic first with Kamala Harris’s: you know, the first Black woman, the first South Asian and the first Gen Xer to be in the White House. And again, going from where Democrats had been and where the country had been, you know, we’d had a Boomer in the White House from ’93 to 2021. Then we had Joe Biden a little earlier. This is the first time this could happen. And, you know, change is always, always favors the candidate who people don’t know as much about.
Frederica Freyberg:
So I wanted to ask you, who do you think Kamala Harris should choose for her VP?
Scot Ross:
Well, I just want to say first, right off the bat, I think that it is an embarrassment of riches for the Democrats with all the great candidates, possibly, who are, you know, 4 or 5 who are being vetted right now. And I think that shows what happens when you don’t have your party held hostage by a guy like Trump for the last eight years. My choice would be Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. And the reason is because he is the best media person, other than Barack Obama, that Democrats currently, you know, currently have to deliver message and deliver the punch. And he’s also been vetted because he was not only a presidential candidate, but also transportation secretary nominee.
Bill McCoshen:
The vetting part is huge and that we’re struggling with that a little bit with J.D. Vance. He was the one candidate in the finals who had not been vetted on a national stage. Doug Burgum had run for president. Marco Rubio had run for president. So they had been vetted. And I think we’re sort of working our way through that. I don’t know who they’re going to ultimately choose. I think they’ll make a strategic call, whether it’s Mark Kelly to put Arizona in play or it’s Roy Cooper to put North Carolina in play, or it’s Governor Shapiro to put Pennsylvania in play. Those are the options I think make more sense than Buttigieg from a tactical standpoint but we’ll see. Republicans will be ready either way.
Frederica Freyberg:
You’re talking about should have vetted J.D. Vance better and you’re working your way through that. What does that mean?
Bill McCoshen:
Well, here’s where I’m at on this. I think there’s — there was an unbelievable change in this race, the landscape last Sunday. And I think we ought to reconsider where we’re at. I don’t know that we should necessarily stick with J.D. Vance. I think Donald Trump could easily ask the RNC to reconsider their vote to nominate him if there’s a candidate that gives us a better chance to win. At the end of the day, all of the campaigns are about winning. You can’t govern if you don’t win, and if they’ve got data that shows that there are candidates that may be stronger than J.D. Vance, if I’m Trump, I’m considering that.
Scot Ross:
I mean, you know, so now that the shine has come off J.D. Vance, and we’re starting to learn a little bit more about him. I lived in the Appalachian region longer than he did, and my grandmother, Grandma Beulah, would have said, you know, he pert near got away with it and he didn’t. And Democrats are going to continue to pound on him because he is the gift that keeps giving on abortion, calling it murder, saying no exceptions for rape and incest. The new recording that came out showing that he wanted abortion stormtroopers to be able to go for — made by the federal government to go from blue – red states to blue states to chase women who were trying to access their, you know, their abortion rights. You know, as far as Democrats go, nobody puts J.D. in the corner.
Bill McCoshen:
Last Saturday, Trump, I would have put at an 80% chance to win. Today, I would put it at 60%. So there has been a closure, no question about it. There’ve been six national polls. Trump’s leading on five of them. She’s leading on one. In the swing states, the only state that tightened completely was Wisconsin. It’s now tied, at least on one poll. So I think Trump’s still in a position to win this. You want to make sure Vance doesn’t hurt the ticket in any way, shape or form. Scot raised some things that, you know, that should have been discussed beforehand, but if I’m, if I’m playing to win, I’m considering all my options.
Frederica Freyberg:
I want to leave it with Scot Ross and ask you about what Kamala Harris’s entry into the race does for Tammy Baldwin.
Scot Ross:
Well, it’s huge. You know, I think that Tammy was going to prevail no matter what. But this really does a great job with sealing that. She’ll have to do the work, you know. But again, Wisconsinites are going to only vote for one Californian in the race and that’s Kamala Harris. You know, I mean, I think that Republicans woke up, you know, thought that we were going to wake up after November 5th with this red dawn all over the country. But I think, you know, with Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket, we are going to have a sea of blue velvet out there. And I think that’s great for the country.
Frederica Freyberg:
We need to leave it there. Bill McCoshen, Scot Ross, thank you so much. For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. To see all of our election coverage, visit WisconsinVote.org. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.
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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
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