To Dine For with Kate Sullivan

JENI BRITTON: I never doubted that I could do it.

I saw Ben and Jerry's doing it, and I thought I can do what they did.

It never occurred to me that I couldn't.

KATE SULLIVAN: In the heart of the Midwest is an artist, a scientist, and a woman with a dream job, ice cream innovator.

JENI: So once I learned that ice cream was really about scent, whether it's vanilla or chocolate, or strawberry, and that was when I knew I was just gonna figure it out.

So I don't know that I knew at the time I was good at it.

I just knew I was going to be good at it.

KATE: Jeni Britton has built an ice cream empire.

One cone at a time, packaged in her trademark, bright orange and white pint.

JENI: I love the culture, I think.

It's not just ice cream, you're identifying with a flavor.

KATE: Today we're having lunch at Jeni's favorite restaurant.

We're eating what she loves and finding out why she loves it.

This is a Japanese feast.

Then we're discovering how Jeni changed the entire category of ice cream and the many lessons she's learned the hard way.

JENI: For some reason, I felt like I wasn't the right person to lead it.

KATE: You doubted yourself.

JENI: I never even considered myself.

KATE: But Jeni's story isn't just about crafting ice creams from scratch.

It's about a mom juggling life and career and aspirations.

A true entrepreneurial journey of trying and failing; and making her own concoction of happiness along the way.

JENI: You have to test your instinct and you have to fail.

The only way you sharpen it is by failing.

So you have to go the wrong way.

You have to trust it and go the wrong way, and then you get back and you, you keep doing that and the sharper it gets.

KATE: What's better in life than a bottle of wine, great food and an amazing conversation?

My name is Kate Sullivan and I am the host of To Dine For .

I'm a journalist, a foodie, a traveler, with an appetite for the stories of people who are hungry for more.

Dreamers.

Visionaries.

Artists.

Those who hustle hard in the direction they love.

I travel with them to their favorite restaurant, to hear how they did it.

This show is a toast to them and their American dream.

To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... ANNOUNCER: At American National, we honor the "do"-ers and the dreamers: the people who get things done and keep the world moving.

Our local agents are honored to serve your community because it's their community too.

American National.

KATE: Today I'm in Columbus, Ohio, on my way into Japanese restaurant, Akai Hana.

I am meeting a true visionary, an ice cream scientist, and a creative with a story to tell.

I can't wait for you to meet Jeni Britton.

KATE: Jeni, how are you?

JENI: I'm doing great.

How are you today?

KATE: Doing great.

So wonderful to meet you.

JENI: It's so great to meet you.

KATE: Thank you for- JENI: Welcome to Columbus.

KATE: Thank you.

This is my very first time to Columbus.

JENI: Okay.

Even better.

KATE: Yes.

JENI: Well, I'm happy to welcome you.

KATE: Thank you.

And to go to Akai Hana, right?

JENI: Yeah.

KATE: When you think of Columbus, Ohio, you don't necessarily think of Japan... until you walk into the Japan marketplace on the northwest side of town, it's as close as you can get to Tokyo in the Midwest.

There's a Japanese grocery store, a bakery and dining options ranging from pickup to fine dining, all at a one-stop shop.

LENI PETERS: You do not have to travel far.

You can just come here.

You can experience the whole Japan here.

KATE: Akai Hana has been a local sushi powerhouse for more than 35 years.

It's one of central Ohio's first Japanese restaurants.

We may be 500 miles from the nearest ocean, but you'd never know it when their fresh fish and colorful rolls arrive at the table.

You can say they have written the book on sushi in Columbus.

YUMIKO PASSALAQUA: The sushi is the best of town, and, uh, we greeting everybody during they come and "Irasshai mase," which is "welcome."

They want some kind of love and hospitality and very comfortable.

KATE: Jeni chose Akai Hana as her happy place, and I am so looking forward to hearing more about her journey, how she took a leap from artist to ice cream scientist, landing her a James Beard Award along the way.

Over the last 21 years, "Jeni's Splendid Ice Cream" has gained a cult-like following, churning out more than a thousand different flavors of her made from scratch recipes.

Dolly Parton and Joe Biden are among her biggest fans.

I wanna know more about what it took for Jeni to achieve such a high level of success in such a tough industry.

KATE: First of all, thank you for bringing me to Akai Hana.

This place is so incredible.

It's such a beautiful zen atmosphere, but I'm really curious.

We're in Columbus, Ohio.

Of all the restaurants, why did you choose this one?

JENI: For me, Akai Hana is a place where when I was very young, it was like going far away.

Before I could travel.

It was like a whole district of amazing places and flavors and people, and you're right, when you, when you step into here, it's like you step into a whole other place.

Especially when I was a young girl.

KATE: It was like traveling.

JENI: It was like traveling when I couldn't travel.

KATE: Right.

JENI: And I still have never been to Japan.

KATE: And you grew up in, you are originally from Peoria, Illinois, but did you spend your high school years here?

JENI: I did.

I spent, well, I moved almost every year growing up.

KATE: Oh.

JENI: And not to like anywhere amazing.

They were all amazing in their own ways, but, you know, in different places, in Peoria, in different places in Columbus.

And then I moved to Dayton for a while and London, Ohio for a while and back to Columbus.

So I did go to high school here, but only my last two years.

KATE: So Columbus must be home to you?

JENI: Columbus is home to me.

It's actually like, I think like sometimes I think I learned to drive here.

So I stayed here.

You know, it was the one place where I felt really, um, like I was able to build community.

Like I started building community, um, once, once I kind of, I think started driving here and got grounded here and footing here.

KATE: Yes.

What was it about ice cream that became such a muse for you?

Such an inspiration?

JENI: Maybe it had something to do with where I grew up actually.

I mean, I, um, I grew up in, well, Peoria and Columbus and in the Midwest, I would say ice cream is like your event.

It's an event.

KATE: Yes.

JENI: It's a football game.

And then ice cream, it's a baseball game- KATE: You go for ice cream.

JENI: And we also grew up eating it after dinner, before bed.

KATE: Yes.

JENI: So, like um, watching Johnny Carson with my grandparents.

So it's this very comforting thing.

So I love the culture, I think is where, is what happens with ice cream.

It's like, it's not just ice cream.

You're, you're identifying with a flavor.

You're with people, they're identifying with a flavor.

You're tasting things.

There's this atmosphere, a little bit of urgency at the ice cream counter.

And you're sharing a little bit of yourself.

You're learning a little about yourself.

You're sharing a little bit about yourself, and then you're learning about somebody else.

KATE: But when did you know that you were good at making ice cream and identifying flavors because your flavors are out of this world?

JENI: So I started making ice creams at home and it was kind of a, a fluke.

I was actually studying scent.

I was thinking I was gonna go into perfume.

KATE: Ah.

JENI: I had a really good friend who was this adorable Parisian guy.

He was here in Columbus.

I was working at a French bakery.

So I met him through that and he told me about scent.

I connected it with the forest, and I knew that I, that scent was my thing.

And it wasn't until, um, I started, I started thinking about ice cream.

And I just realized that you can put scent in ice cream.

That butter fat is this perfect carrier of scent actually.

KATE: And scent precedes taste.

Right?

It's, you have to smell something... JENI: Well, the opposite.

KATE: Oh, it's the opposite?

JENI: So, well, it, it depends.

It depends on how you, so in ice cream, because the scent is kind of locked in.

KATE: Yes.

JENI: You taste it first.

So you get the cold and then you taste the sweetness, and then you begin to taste whatever's locked in there.

So once I learned that ice cream was really about scent, whether it's vanilla or chocolate or coffee or strawberry, I connected those two.

And that was when I knew I was just gonna figure it out.

So I don't know that I knew at the time I was good at it.

KATE: Right.

JENI: I just knew I was going to be good at it.

KATE: Now this is the way to start off a meal.

Our first course is "omakase," which means in Japanese, "I'll leave it up to you."

And let me tell you, this chef put together quite a spread without our direction.

Fresh sashimi and rolls with fatty tuna, big shrimp, yellow tail, red snapper, sea urchin, and king crab.

It's an entire meal disguised as an appetizer.

JENI: This is so different.

KATE: Yes.

JENI: From what I grew up with.

So I just got back from, you know, Austria and Germany.

That's the food I grew up with.

Dumplings.

And bratwurst and beer.

KATE: Yes.

JENI: I love those flavors, those soft, buttery flavors of the Midwest and of Germany and sauerkraut and all of that.

You know, how they go together.

But to come from that and to into these beautiful, bright, crisp, clean, gorgeous, colorful flavors is a very different, when I'm, when I was young, very different for me.

KATE: Let's try this.

JENI: Yes.

KATE: Let's try this sushi.

I don't even know where to begin.

Where are you going first?

[laughs] I'll follow your lead.

JENI: Well, Oh my gosh.

That's probably where I'll go too.

And the truth is, I like literally everything here.

I'm a... KATE: Wow.

Is that good?

JENI: And I'm such a horse radish and wasabi person.

I love it so much.

KATE: Have you ever put wasabi in an ice cream?

JENI: Yeah.

Yeah.

KATE: I figured you would.

JENI: And actually, fresh wasabi.

KATE: I love cucumbers.

Just the simplicity of a cucumber, to me is just divine with a little soy sauce.

JENI: Yeah.

KATE: So good.

JENI: What's interesting about cucumber, speaking of scent, I think people don't realize like how much scent is in cucumbers.

KATE: Yes.

JENI: If you take, um, even like a half a cucumber and put it in a whole gallon of ice cream puree, the whole thing will taste like cucumber.

KATE: Really?

JENI: But if you take like two pineapples or three pineapples, I mean, you could just puree pineapple almost and um, freeze it.

It barely has a scent of pineapple.

KATE: I would've guessed the opposite.

JENI: Yeah.

I know.

We all would.

KATE: I would guess pineapple would've been overpowering.

JENI: You can put four pineapples in, you know, two gallons of, of ice cream and you won't, and you won't really taste the pineapple, but you can put this much cucumber.

KATE: Oh, that's fascinating.

JENI: And it will taste, the whole thing will taste like cucumber.

KATE: Jeni is a master at flavor.

She actually samples a scoop every day at 3: 00 PM.

She started out in art school at Ohio State and dropped out after her obsession with scent led her down another path to ice cream.

"Scream Ice Cream" started serving up scoops in 1996 in the North market at Columbus.

A 147-year-old public market made of independent merchants, farmers, and makers.

When do you feel like you really got traction and you went from being a stall, where people loved and went for their favorite artisanal ice cream to really, I'm onto something this could be something much bigger?

JENI: Here.

I never doubted that I could do it.

I saw Ben and Jerry's doing it, and I thought, I'm, I can do what they did.

It, it never occurred to me that I couldn't.

And so I had this idea, which I loved, I loved the idea that ice cream could be better, that it could be a conversation starter.

None of my friends would go to an ice cream shop.

So I thought, well, what if I could make an ice cream shop where they would go to what would it be like, where the creative people would hang out and actually have conversations and what could I do to stimulate those conversations?

And that was kind of the, the seed of it.

KATE: That's interesting.

So it wasn't necessarily to sell ice cream, it was to create a community and create a place where people could go.

JENI: Yeah.

I mean, I think it was two things.

I wanted to make ice cream because it, it ticked all my boxes.

I liked, I like making things; I like working like with my body, right?

I like to make something.

Um, I like change.

So I like to be able to change all the time, which ice cream, you can constantly come up with new things; it's never boring.

And, I wanted that idea to work.

And the first place you go when you want an idea to work is you ask yourself, what would I wanna see in the world?

You know?

And I wanted to see a place that I wanted to hang out.

So then I started to look around and I'm like, well, that's, that's, there's a lot of people like me that I think I could bring in here if I did this the way that I want it to be done.

And then of course, it didn't work because- KATE: What didn't work?

JENI: You know, the idea in the beginning was like, it was too, it was too experimental.

So I was making any flavor that I wanted to, but I wasn't... KATE: Listening to the consumer?

JENI: I wasn't listening to anybody else.

I didn't, I think, I didn't think anybody wanted that.

I think I thought people wanted to come see what I had to offer.

So my first business, I called it "Scream Ice Cream."

And that was it.

It was like, it was just me with my pink hair making ice creams and every day they were different, whatever was in the market was what I was making.

KATE: Oh, that's interesting.

So, at the very beginning with "Scream Ice Cream," you were an artist.

And you were, you were a true artist, which creates for themself and what they wanna see in the world.

At some point you had to shift to a business and what- JENI: Exactly.

KATE: what the consumer wants to see in the world.

How did that shift happen for you?

JENI: I was um, at a coffee shop and I waited in line on Saturday morning, and I got to the front and, you know, I had like five bucks for the whole day.

This is gonna be my entire day on Saturday.

And I had a magazine with me.

And I would, I was so excited to get this scone that they had.

It was this orange scone.

It had this amazing frosting on it.

It was amazing and they were out of it.

So when I got up to the front, I was like "I'll, you know, I'll have the orange scone."

They were like, "we don't have that."

And I was like, "but that's the only reason I'm here."

And they didn't care.

And there was a line behind me.

People were pressuring me to order.

So I left.

And when I left, I remember it exactly when I walked out the door.

I remember thinking, "oh my God, I did that to everybody at Scream."

So at Scream, people would come in asking for salty caramel or pistachio and basil or wild berry lavender, these flavors that people loved but I just only had them when I wanted them.

And when I realized that, I immediately started a new plan and that was Jeni's.

KATE: What started off as one shop in 2002 turned into a second shop in 2006, just a few miles away and then things really took off.

Now, Jeni's has more than 75 scoop shops from coast to coast.

Jeni's one-of-a-kind flavors like buttercream birthday cake and skillet cinnamon roll shipped to all 50 states and are front and center in major grocery stores.

In 2021, "Jeni's Splendid Ice Cream" turned in more than $95 million.

KATE: What do you think was your biggest mistake as you think of those early years from that store on Grandview to, you know, the years that followed?

JENI: Oh gosh.

I mean, not, not being organized as a team.

So, you know, we would get a call, um, that, you know, the, the, the freezer was out somewhere and all of us would get on our phone and call three different people, you know, so we didn't have, um we didn't have like, an organized way.

KATE: Distribution of roles.

Yes.

JENI: Yeah.

Nobody was really like, in a way leading from that perspective.

KATE: Right.

JENI: And we all kind of led, we, we were like a basketball team that was pretty good, uh without a coach.

[laughs] And, you know, I would say probably an overall biggest mistake that I've ever made that I've, that I've maybe not ever made.

But, one mistake that I made, I think as a woman, to be honest, I didn't trust myself to be in that role.

I really didn't.

And I, I thought it was much more complicated than I think it is.

So really, like, I had spent 10 years with our customers.

Like I really had a great understanding of how to make ice cream, who our customers are, where we need to go, what the vision can be, this sort of pattern that you can create and, and where it can go and sort of future visioning of the company.

But for some reason, I felt like I wasn't the right person to lead it.

KATE: You doubted yourself.

JENI: I never even considered myself.

So I think if I was gonna pass anything on, not just to women, but I think creative people, things are changing and I think CEOs can come from all different places.

What you need, you need a coach, because coach as a founder, you're, you are just on a different level.

People think of you differently.

You don't wanna think of yourself that way, but you need a coach to help you manage people, like how you interface with people.

KATE: Oh, look at this.

JENI: Well, I knew there was like- KATE: Ahh, that looks incredible.

Now I understand why Jeni chose Akai Hana.

Their sukiyaki is a sliced ribeye with carrots, tofu, onions, shiitake, and enoki mushrooms, scallions, and clear potato noodles; all cooked in a hot iron pot with sukiyaki sauce.

Oh my gosh, this is so much food.

This is so much food.

JENI: It will get eaten somewhere.

KATE: This is it, right?

There's no more coming.

Okay, good.

As long as there's nothing else coming.

JENI: Whenever I walk into, um, even a place like, like Akai Hana or anywhere, I always imagine myself working here because the power that you have to change someone's day and really life even, through service, through these, these small moments of service is huge.

KATE: This lends itself really nicely to talking about creating a company culture, because that is something that I know you really pride yourself on.

How did that even get started and what is the company culture of Jeni's?

JENI: That's so funny.

Um, because when I think about it, I like to say that I, I created the company that you would create if you were 12 and you just thought that's how everybody did it.

You know what I mean?

So it's like, um... KATE: You mean like fun, friendly, trustworthy?

JENI: I think, you know, the, the thing is, we, we, we wanna do, we act... like when I was a kid, and if you watch kids, this is how they are.

They're like, play is actually vision and effort and time, collaboration, cooperation, but what we really want is to do meaningful work with people who are also doing meaningful work.

People we trust, in a group that we trust, and then we wanna go home to our families feeling good.

I always say I grew up to be the only person that I could have become.

It's the only person I ever was.

KATE: You are on a new path.

You are not the CEO of Jeni's anymore, and you're doing a lot of work with entrepreneurs, especially female entrepreneurs.

Can you share a little bit of that?

JENI: Yeah.

Well, I um, I tend to be the one that everybody calls when they are in crisis because- KATE: What do I do?

JENI: I mean, I've even, like, I have this PDF that I can send around like, okay, first of all, this is step one, KATE: Take a breath.

JENI: You know, it depends on how big the crisis is.

At some point it becomes really difficult as the company grows and you need to kind of step away.

And it just, it's just a really, really difficult thing to do.

KATE: To gain perspective.

JENI: To gain perspective and also I think what happens is that you kind of push yourself until you break.

KATE: And at one point on your journey, were you broken?

JENI: Yeah.

Oh yeah.

In the end of 2019, I was, I had really just given everything that I had.

I also had become a mother in 20, in 2007.

So, raising kiddos and um, just trying to excel at that, but also raising a company.

It's a lot.

KATE: Yeah.

JENI: And, and it really, like, you just, you're just all in, you're all in on all fronts.

And it's, it is impossible.

It, it really is, especially for women, because women are still doing most of the work at home and then being the breadwinner and all of that as well.

And so, by 2019, I was shattered.

KATE: You were shattered.

JENI: Shattered.

KATE: It was a moment in her career that she said broke her the hard charging lifestyle of an entrepreneur had caught up with her and she needed to find a way back to herself.

JENI: I just had nothing left.

I didn't even, like, I wasn't really even seeing color.

KATE: Really?

JENI: Yeah.

In the world.

It was just- KATE: You had just worked yourself to the bone.

Wow.

JENI: And um- KATE: As someone who loves flavor and texture and color, that must have been really devastating.

JENI: It's kind of like being like, you know, a zombie.

You know, you're just sort of, at some point you're just kind of on this, you just kind of, you're doing it.

KATE: Yeah, you were, you're in a different head space.

Then, you know, It's kind of nice to.. JENI: Yeah.

I spent a lot of time in the forest.

I mean, six, seven hours a day sometimes.

KATE: I know, because you post on Instagram.

JENI: Yeah.

KATE: You running in the forest.

And what it does for you, I would say psychically and spiritually.

Can you explain that?

JENI: I think that, um, you know, the thing about being an entrepreneur, and when I work with other entrepreneurs, this is something that I understand very well, is that we, we push ourselves so much.

We take on everything, because first of all, it's kind of fun.

And so you don't wanna say no to everything.

You have to learn that by doing too much and trying to be too many things to too many people.

But I, I just was so emotionally tethered to every decision.

KATE: Yes.

JENI: And, um, and that's really important.

You have to take things very personally, right, in order to build a company.

But at the same time it's, it's, it also is really hard.

At some point it becomes really difficult as the company grows and you need to kind of step away and it just, it's just a really, really difficult thing to do.

KATE: How did you get yourself out of that?

JENI: I definitely just wanted to be in nature.

I um, grew up going to the forest.

My grandparents had this beautiful forest, and so it somewhere that lives inside of me, and there's a tree that I used to always go to that I can no longer go to, but, so that was just calling me and I went back out.

For me It's just like the way the sun comes through the canopy that was calling me, and it made me feel like absolutely nobody.

KATE: And what did it do for you?

JENI: Well, that's exac- It, it took me out of myself.

So I, my ego had been trying to make me fit into all these other things, and it gave, and it took away my ego.

It took away any need to be anything and just allowed me to be and then it gave me perspective.

KATE: I call this show a toast to the American dream, and you certainly are living the American dream, but what you just described also tells the story of how the American dream can break you and working that hard and what it takes to "create the American dream" can sometimes be and often be a negative.

And you had to kind of go back to an ancient way of living and just simplicity to find yourself again.

JENI: I think so.

But also, I just want to say too, very loudly, I say this all the time, I'm a very happy person.

And like, that's kind of my, my nature state anyway too.

And even though I found myself into that spot, it's okay to push yourself over your boundaries.

In fact, I feel very honored to have been able to do that and privileged.

I mean, like now I know what that is; and so the American dream is about that.

It's about knowing your boundaries.

It's about pushing yourself.

It's about believing in yourself and, and your potential and finding it, in a way, and you can break yourself and come back from it.

And you, it'll happen again to me in my life, I'm sure.

Because again, I'll push myself somewhere to figure that out and that will happen.

But, but knowing that that's okay too.

We are... humans are very resilient.

KATE: I love that.

Well, cheers to you.

Thank you for this amazing conversation.

It's wonderful to have this incredible meal at Akai Hana and let's go get some ice cream.

JENI: Yeah, let's do, it's time for dessert.

KATE: The most important part of sitting down to a good meal is making sure you leave a little room for dessert, especially when you get to visit Jeni's Ice Cream with Jeni.

One of your first jobs was in an ice cream store, right?

JENI: Yeah.

Yes.

My first job was at an ice cream shop.

KATE: Wow!

And now here you are.

JENI: Yeah.

Exactly.

I mean, it was, it was written in the stars, I think.

KATE: What's it like to come into your own store and to have this experience?

What are you looking for?

What are you noticing?

JENI: When I walk into one of my stores, I just feel, at home, I feel a sense of pride.

I usually get to meet somebody new.

KATE: What flavor are you gonna get today?

JENI: We have salted licorice right now, which is me, and like four other people's favorite.

And then nobody else likes it.

Is that... okay.

Good.

You're, you're in the club.

KATE: Are you gonna do a cone or a cup?

JENI: Always a cone.

KATE: Always a cone?

Why?

JENI: And I get very serious about that.

KATE: Okay, why is that?

JENI: Because it brings you into the moment.

KATE: Yeah.

JENI: So you can put your cup down, you can kind of, you know, keep yourself safe, make sure it doesn't get on your face and all this stuff.

You can, you can disconnect disassociate with the ice cream, but when you have it on a cone, you have to be with it.

You have to be with it.

You have to be in the moment.

And, um, and you, and you're engaging with it.

And I think then you kind of, it sucks you into the moment.

KATE: Well, I think- JENI: So, that's what I always do.

KATE: I love that.

I, you've changed my mind.

I'm not gonna do a cup.

I'm gonna do a cone.

Can I do a, a small cone of wild berry lavender.

KATE: What does being in Columbus mean to you?

And at what part did Columbus play in your success?

JENI: Columbus is really important in my story.

It demanded excellence from me.

At "Scream," you know, maybe we weren't, yeah, I wasn't so successful, but I was like trying to work it out.

And then once I figured that out, like this city really got behind me.

The people of this city, the leaders of this city, that became something that I was very proud of.

And I wanted to make everybody proud of me.

KATE: Yeah.

JENI: You know, and so that, that's a force.

KATE: Yeah.

JENI: Columbus is also a place where I find creativity.

So maybe I travel and I bring back a lot of inspiration, and then I get back here and I have time to think and work it out and that's also what Columbus means to me, which is why I don't like, I don't wanna leave, you know, it's why I still live here after all these years.

Cheers!

[laughs] KATE: I don't get to go to "Jeni's Ice Cream" with Jeni very often.

Talk about a dream job making ice cream and selling happiness, living in a world of color and candy and flavor.

But there's no doubt Jeni Britton is so much more than an ice cream innovator.

Jeni is what happens when you take imagination to the next level; where science and art meet and you truly live, work, and dream ice cream.

She calls herself a non-linear thinker, but it's her ability to evolve, to pivot, to fail, and to rise, to be fully herself that is her gift to the world.

And to help and show other women along the way they can do it too.

Cheers Jeni, to you for me, in this wild berry lavender cone.

KATE: If you would like to know more about the guests, the restaurants, and the inspiring stories of success, please visit todinefortv.com or follow us on Facebook and Instagram at To Dine For TV.

We also have a podcast, To Dine For the podcast is available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... ANNOUNCER: At American National, we honor the "do"-ers and the dreamers: the people who get things done and keep the world moving.

Our local agents are honored to serve your community because it's their community too.

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