To Dine For with Kate Sullivan

KATE SULLIVAN: Today, we're in the heart of West Hollywood, at a local cafe where great design meets everyday California chic.

I'm meeting a one-of-a-kind founder who has an incredible story of success.

KATE: So this is your favorite restaurant?

ALLI WEBB: Yes, it's one of my favorite spots in LA.

KATE: Alli Webb is taking me to her favorite restaurant to eat what she loves and find out why she loves it.

KATE: That's a wow.

ALLI: I literally get it every time I come here, no matter what time of day.

KATE: Then we're hearing how she turned a love of blow-drying women's hair into a $100 million business called Drybar.

ALLI: We're going to open a blow-dry bar.

And they're like, "What the hell is a blow-dry bar?"

KATE: We're hearing how her meteoric rise to success led to epic loss and grief.

ALLI: I can't tell this story without really telling the story of like, the ups and downs of my life falling apart.

KATE: And then, she's sharing her hard won advice for those creating their own American dream.

ALLI: There's no one path to it.

KATE: Right.

ALLI: And I really do believe that, like, if I did it, anybody can do it.

It's like a lot of hard work, a lot of perseverance, a lot of passion.

The magic is in the mess, as we say.

KATE: What's better in life than a bottle of wine, great food, and an amazing conversation?

My name is Kate Sullivan, and I am the host of To Dine For .

I'm a journalist, a foodie, a traveler with an appetite for the stories of people who are hungry for more: dreamers, visionaries, artists: those who hustle hard in the direction they love.

I travel with them to their favorite restaurant to hear how they did it.

This show is a toast to them and their American Dream.

To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... (Music and chatter) MAN: During the weekends, we do like a grill.

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I'm like, "My guy won the game."

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KATE: Today, I'm at Great White All-Day Cafe on Melrose Avenue in West Hollywood.

I am meeting a dreamer and visionary who turned a side hustle into a multi million-dollar business and has a passion to help others do the same.

I can't wait for you to meet Alli Webb.

KATE: Hi Alli, how are you?

ALLI: Hi, I'm great, how are you?

KATE: Great to meet you.

ALLI: Great to meet you too.

KATE: Thank you for doing this.

ALLI: Thanks for having me.

I'm so excited.

KATE: So, this is your favorite restaurant?

ALLI: Yes, it's one of my favorite spots in LA.

The food is so good.

It's such a great place for meetings.

My friends and I come here all the time.

I love it.

KATE: What's not to love?

This welcoming and homey hot spot has it all; delicious food and a great vibe.

Australian native Sam Trude says it's all about that special mix of California fresh and the intimacy of a European all-day cafe.

SAM TRUDE: Growing up in Australia, everything's outdoors.

You know, we grew up outdoors all the time, and it's a very similar climate to California.

So, our premise for all of our restaurants is you know, outdoors, open doors, big patios, you know, sunlit areas, and I think that sort of helps with that all-day concept.

You know, you can be there at breakfast, at sunset like late at night, around a fireplace.

So, I just think harnessing your environment and being outside is just a nice way to eat and live your life.

KATE: The beautiful layout is meant to invoke a sense of community.

No steel or glass, according to Sam, instead natural materials that give the space that lived in feeling.

It is the perfect setting to indulge in one of Great White's fan favorites: the breakfast burrito, an all-day staple, with a bit of decadence thrown in.

SAM TRUDE: It's definitely a favorite.

Um, it's our best seller and has been sort of since day one.

There's eggs, there's scallions, there's fried tater tots, which gives it a little bit of extra crunch, and there's a little bit of bacon in there for a bite.

It's just a really feel good dish.

KATE: It's Alli's favorite too, along with some other delicious dishes we're trying today; like the mushroom fries with lemon zest and Thai basil, banana bread with whipped honeycomb butter and fresh fruit, and the tuna tostada with fresh avocado and a squeeze of lime.

Just a few of the highlights that keeps them coming back to Great White, all while staying true to their vision.

SAM: We wanted a place where you could come straight off the beach you know, with your towel over your shoulders and have breakfast, or you could come for a pizza and a glass of wine with some girlfriends on a date.

Something that was truly all day.

You know, you could come three or four times a week get something healthy, something maybe a bit more indulgent.

To us, that's the real core of an all-day cafe, you know, it should be something for everyone at all parts of the day.

KATE: It's why Alli keeps coming back too, for scrumptious dishes that are tasty and comforting.

Enjoyed in an easygoing atmosphere, smack in the middle of Los Angeles.

KATE: It's got such a great vibe.

ALLI: So beautiful.

KATE: But I'm curious, of all the restaurants in Los Angeles, why here?

ALLI: Truth be told, like, I don't go out a lot, [Kate laughs] I mean, and I'm not like, while I, they might not appreciate this, I don't really consider myself a foodie.

But I love a good meal and but for me, it's like, it's ambience and like... KATE: And design, and aesthetic.

ALLI: Architecture, lighting... KATE: Yes.

ALLI: Like, just the way of space feels, which I'm sure is not shocking to you based on what I do, what I've done.

And ever since, Great White opened, you know, I loved, I loved the food, the service is great.

And yeah, and like, so it's just like, I'm kind of a creature of habit.

Once I find something I love, I kind of stick to it.

KATE: But I love that.

You really eat here.

You eat here all the time.

ALLI: Yeah, yeah all the time.

KATE: This is a favorite spot of yours and you're not someone who goes out.

So that actually means even more.

ALLI: I don't go out a lot.

Well I go out sometimes.

KATE: [Kate laughs] You're not a hermit.

ALLI: I mean, I am a little bit of an introvert, which is ironic, based on like... KATE: What you've done... ALLI: How much I'm in front of the camera and the world.

But, yeah, I'm very much an introvert.

I love, I love this kind of stuff.

Like, I love being on camera, like, I like that whole world, but I love, but I also really love, like, my alone time, my quiet time.

KATE: I do too.

ALLI: With my boys and my dog.

KATE: I'm the same way.

ALLI: I'm very happy.

KATE: Yes, I'd like to begin by talking about your childhood in Florida, and your parents had a store.

They were entrepreneurs.

ALLI: Yep.

KATE: So how much of that rubbed off on you?

ALLI: I think a lot more than I realized until I got older.

You know?

I mean, I think I just took for granted that I grew up with parents who had their own business, and their business was called Flips.

And it was like just, that's all was ever talked about in my house, is everything was about Flips.

And I remember as a kid- KATE: A clothing store, correct?

ALLI: A clothing store, like the "schmatta business," as they would call it.

Like muu muus and kind of older ladies clothing stores.

And my, my my parents were really genius.

This really came from my dad, who was like, you know, there's not a place for older women to shop other than the mall.

And why is that?

And so he put these little Flip clothing stores inside all the like shopping centers that the old ladies would shop in.

Like where the bagel shop is and the bank is, and, like the little grocery store and the Chinese restaurant.

I mean, like everything there.

And so it was a really brilliant concept, kind of ahead of its time, which, again, was something I didn't pay attention to or realize until I got older.

But I think just growing up in an entrepreneurial environment, just, it seeps in.

KATE: But you saw the good, the bad, and the ugly.

ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: Right?

The pain points and the stress and the worry of owning your own business but also probably some great moments.

ALLI: Oh, what's that?

SERVER: This is the banana bread for you guys and the market fruit.

KATE: That looks amazing, lovely.

SERVER: And this is the tuna tostadas.

ALLI: I mean banana bread.

I'll just eat the butter.

I mean you had me at butter.

KATE: Yes, and a pound of sugar.

I love banana bread.

KATE: As we started to enjoy the dishes, Alli went on to describe the incredible impact her parents had on her life and career.

Most importantly: that sense of customer service and how it nourished their success.

It influenced her first venture into the business world, starting Drybar with her brother and then husband.

Already a professional stylist with a love for blow-drying hair, she went on to create a new model in the hair salon industry, one focused on the customer.

KATE: So your mom taught you that the customer is always right.

ALLI: King, the customer's king.

KATE: The customer's king, and she lived it.

You saw that firsthand.

ALLI: It was just instilled in us and-and I really think it was one of the biggest parts of Drybar's success, is that, you know, we looked and felt really, or look and feel it's, it's, I talk about in past tense, because I've sold it, but it, it still exists.

Um, I'm just not running it anymore, but, you know, we just, we had this like, over the top customer service philosophy, but in this, like, you know, and this Mom and Pop feel.

But in this beautiful setting that looked and felt really high end, but the price tag wasn't high end.

So we kind of turned everything on its head, as it traditionally was in this industry.

KATE: I am curious as to how Drybar got started.

I heard it was at first, a mobile... ALLI: Yes.

KATE: ...Drybar salon that you just bought up one day.

ALLI: I was a stay at home mom, and I loved it for a while, until I didn't, and then I was like, ready for my next thing.

And as much as I loved... being at home with my boys, I was just itching for something.

And so, that's really when the idea came to me of starting a mobile blowout business.

Because even when I was cutting hair in the salon, I loved getting through the haircut so I could do the blowout because that's when it came to life.

KATE: Okay, so, blow-drying the hair was always your jam.

That's what you loved.

ALLI: Yeah I loved it.

I loved watching...

The transformation from wet hair to dry hair, and how it would impact a woman and how she would look and feel after I just, I felt like I was so good at blowouts, like cutting hair.

I was okay, but like, the blowout like, I have naturally curly hair, so I really knew how to do that.

So I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna post an ad and, like, in one of my mommy groups and say, hey, I'm a long time hairstylist, I'm thinking of starting a mobile blowout business.

I'm charging I don't know, 30 or 40 bucks.

And people were like, great, when can you come?

It was like, rapid fire.

It was so crazy.

KATE: You knew immediately.

ALLI: Immediately.

And I...my then husband Cam made me a one page website called "Straight at Home."

And I decided to charge 40 bucks.

Was like, two 20's, super easy.

And, you know, women started calling me, and then they loved their hair, and they'd tell their friends.

And it just grew so quickly that I was, like, having to say "no" more than I was saying "yes," because it was like, I was only one person, you know.

And so I was like, huh, maybe instead of me going to them, they come to me.

And that's when I went to my brother and said, I have a high-class problem here, like, I've got too many clients, not enough of me.

I think I need to, you know, open up a shop.

You know, anybody who's in the entrepreneurial world knows that like, you eat, drink and sleep this.

You don't, you don't really get breaks.

It's like constant, constant, constant.

That if you don't actually love what you're doing, it would suck.

KATE: But Alli definitely did love it.

They opened to a completely booked shop and never looked back.

Drybar locations popped up all over the U.S. with drink themed hairstyles like "Cosmos," "Mai Tais" and "Manhattans" and employees were called bartenders, eventually diversifying the brand to include a line of products.

The booming business was named one of the top 100 brilliant ideas of 2010 by Entrepreneur Magazine.

But 10 years later, after all that success Alli decided to sell her growing empire: comparing it to sending a child off to college, and letting go.

KATE: What were the pain points of opening, an actual brick and mortar store?

ALLI: Oh my God, what weren't the pain points?

It was all so painful, because first of all we were just coming off of a recession.

Going to the landlord and saying, "Hey, we're going to open a blow-dry bar."

And they're like, "What the hell is a blow-dry bar?"

I'm like, "Well," and they're like, "is it a bar?"

Like, no, it's not a bar.

I mean, the amount of times we've opened stores where people are like, asking for a liquor license.

And we're like, no, no, not that kind of bar.

Because they'll come in and see us under construction, and they will see the bar, and they'd be like, "Do you have a liquor license?"

And we're like, No, we don't need a liquor license, you know, which was actually kind of an interesting gray area.

That was another pain point.

I mean, it's just so many and, and you know that first landlord was like, very grumpy, and was like, you know, didn't get the concept.

We sold him on it, but he made us personally guarantee it, which is kind of unheard of.

KATE: Wow.

ALLI: You know, finding hairstylists, finding towels, like, which is kind of a funny story, I think I might have told in the book, that I signed some ridiculous towel contract for like, some crazy amount of years, and like to break it was some crazy amount of money.

And remember, my I got in a lot of trouble.

My brother's like, you're not allowed to sign anything anymore until our lawyer looks at it, which I was like, Okay, that's a good lesson.

And now I'm like, I can't sign anything.

You know?

Um, but you know, just like, thing after thing after thing.

And even now, like, I mentor a lot of entrepreneurs, and one of the big things is like, I'm so overwhelmed, I don't know where to start, you know?

I'm like, oh, I get it, but you know, you have to just like, make lists of like, what the priorities are for that day.

It's all difficult when you're starting a business, nothing is easy.

And that's like, you have to have this skin like to do that.

And not everybody does.

KATE: I love your story for many reasons, but the first one is the fact that you leaned into what you really love to do... ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: ...which, at first blush, didn't seem like a big money maker.

Can you talk a little bit about sort of the magic of identifying that, that passion that might seem strange to the outside world?

ALLI: Well, and it's good point that you bring up too, because I you know as much as I mean, I like money is next as much as the next person.

And I like living my life a certain way, too.

But money was never a driver for me.

To your point, it was always about this thing that I loved and I feel like my whole life is as far back as I can remember up until now, like I've always kind of driven with what makes me happy, what lights me up, what's my purpose, you know?

And I think I did that as a 20 year old.

I just didn't recognize it, or couldn't articulate it.

And this thing with Drybar was like...yeah...I just wanted to.

I was desperate to find something that was for me and that I love to do, and for me that was hair and blowouts.

And it was like, you know, selling the company or making a bunch of money was never at the forefront.

Never.

KATE: You sold it for $255 million.

What was that experience like for you emotionally, it was your baby, yes, with your ex husband and your brother, but it was something you created and built.

What was it like to sell it?

ALLI: It was crazy.

I mean... KATE: Did you feel a loss, a sense of loss?

ALLI: It's a little bit of a like, I'm letting this thing go.

KATE: Yes.

ALLI: I've worked really hard.

I'm really proud of it, but off you go, you know.

And I do have a son in college, so I think that, that was like, I mean, I still talk to my son... KATE: Yeah.

ALLI: ...I don't really talk to DryBar anymore.

But...I think that, that it's that kind of a feeling.

It's like a little part of you that will always be a part of you that, but you have to release it.

And I think I was, I mean, I know, I was really ready for the next thing and to move on.

It was 10 years.

Was almost like 10 years to the day.

It was crazy, and I was emotionally done.

KATE: So, it was really 10 years to the day you had the idea, you started out going home to home, all the way to selling your business for $255 million.

If you had to pinpoint why you think that happened for you three, what would that be?

ALLI: Incredible dedication and passion about what we were doing and love for what we were doing.

I mean, again, it was never about the money.

The money was like a bonus.

You know, I loved it.

I loved every second of it.

I loved what it did to my life.

KATE: You loved the process of doing it.

ALLI: I love building.

KATE: Yes!

ALLI: We all love building, you know.

KATE: Wow.

ALLI: I think there was a part- Thank you so much.

KATE: Oh, wow that looks good.

ALLI: Cheers.

KATE: Cheers to the burrito.

So this is what you get.

ALLI: There's tater tots in this burrito.

KATE: So there's that crunch, right?

ALLI: I mean, it's so good.

And this salsa whatever it is...is so good.

KATE: It's the perfect size.

ALLI: So good.

It has bacon in it.

Isn't it so good?

KATE: That's a wow.

ALLI: I literally get it every time I come here, no matter what time of day.

It's the best burrito in LA.

KATE: It's easy, it's delicious.

It is craveable.

ALLI: It is craveable.

KATE: It's craveable.

That's what this is.

ALLI: It was so exciting.

It was so invigorating.

I mean, building the company was exciting.

Like the impact we were having on women was amazing.

The fact that we were providing jobs for hairstylists was like, so amazing.

I mean, it was just like, thing after thing after thing.

But it was so exhilarating.

And my life personally changed so much, like doing the craziest things and being on magazines and going on Shark Tank.

And I was like, you know, talk about imposter syndrome.

I was like, really, you know, I mean, it was so it was so intoxicating and amazing.

KATE: Amazing, but not without a cost.

After years of burying herself in work, Alli says her personal life began to unravel.

Her first marriage to her husband and Drybar co-founder, ended in divorce after 16 years.

Her mother died of cancer.

And her teenage son, who was struggling with addiction, entered rehab.

She talks about it all in her 2023 book "The Messy Truth," where she revealed that her seemingly perfect life was anything but.

After two divorces, struggles with depression and guilt over the impact on her children, she put it all out there and began to heal.

ALLI: I don't even know if I can tell you the story without crying like literally, I was at dinner last night with my son, my younger son, and he, my eyes are already starting to tear up.

He was like, my friend, who's like, asking us at the table, we're at dinner, what's like your greatest attribute, and what's like your, your biggest struggle, something like that.

And my son answered, but then... we were walking away from the restaurant.

We were walking home.

He was, he put his arm around me, and he was like, "Mom I just, I just mostly want to be a really good man."

KATE: Awww, [laughs] what's better than that?

ALLI: I mean, I was like... KATE: What's better than that?

ALLI: ...like my job is done, you know?

But you know, my boys have just like, they've, they've been through a lot, you know, they've been through two divorces with me, like, which is like, gosh, I did not want that for them, you know.

But we, we've, like, gone through a lot together, and I'm so close to them.

KATE: Yes.

ALLI: But it's required a lot of work on my side to be like, a better version.

Because...like, nobody tells us what to do.

I learned through my son going through rehab and everything that he went through, like, learning to get a lot more curious versus, like, telling them everything I think they should do and be.

KATE: It's a great story.

Yeah, thank you.

ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: Isn't it interesting?

Because a good blowout is usually a way of taming your hair.

It's a way of controlling your hair and making you look in control.

But culturally, over the past, like 10-15, years, there's been such a movement towards natural hair, towards curly hair, letting your inner natural hair show, even in your hair, right?

Um, your book is called "The Messy Truth" that the messy look is...is now more of an "in" thing... ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: ...than the coiffed look... ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: Isn't there something to that, you know, like, it's really interesting how we've moved as a culture.

ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: Not that we're not getting blowouts.

ALLI: Of course, yeah.

KATE: We are.

ALLI: Always love a blowout.

KATE: But that we're embracing who we are and what that means.

And I feel like that's a nice segue into your book.

ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: Because really embraced who you are in your book.

ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: Was that hard?

ALLI: Yes and no, you know, I always thought that I would write a book about the journey of building Drybar and all the success and the fact that I wasn't like an expected success little entrepreneur, because, you know, I didn't have the pedigree or anything to build this company and to sell it and...and all the things that we did.

What I didn't anticipate was going so deep and getting so vulnerable.

But I just when I was, you know, when I set out to write the book and when we were pitching it to all the publishers, it was like, how do I tell this story authentically?

Because, like, I hold authenticity and radical transparency and truth in like the highest regard.

So, I'm like, I can't tell this story without really telling this story.

Of like, the ups-and-downs of my life falling apart and like, everything that entailed.

Because, you know as you know from reading the book on the one hand, it was like, massive success.

So cool and exciting.

And then, there was many pockets in those 10 years, where like...I was...you know, a mess and falling apart.

And my life was falling apart, my marriage was falling apart, my kid's life was falling apart, and depression.

I mean, you name it, it was all happening.

You know, I don't think I'm particularly special in that.

I mean, everybody goes through, you know, depression, or their kids are struggling, or their marriage is struggling.

Like, we all go through this.

And so for me, I just felt like a responsibility to be, you know, yeah, yeah this is amazing.

And here's how I did this, and here's I built this business.

But, by the way, here's how I did it while I was navigating raising two kids and going through a divorce.

And working with my husband.

And just all the things that ensued.

And I felt the identity loss of selling Drybar.

I mean, that was like the flip side of selling the company, was like, oh, I'm ready for the next thing, and I want to adventure out and see what's next and what I want to do next.

But oh, my God, who am I now?

If I'm not the founder?

I mean, obviously I'll always be the founder of Drybar but I won't always, you know, I'm not in it anymore, you know.

And I felt that, you know.

And that was again...I feel like it's such a like...potential, roll your eyes problem, like the champagne problem, of like, oh, you sold your business, boo-hoo.

But, now what?

KATE: Well, that's why I asked her question, because I really felt that, because it really was your baby... ALLI: Yeah.

KATE: ...and it was a beautiful thing that you created, and you did so well... ALLI: And it's like this is what I do everyday.

KATE: Yes.

ALLI: This is my life, and now this isn't my life.

And like, oh, you almost like, the ground falls out from under you, but it's amazing, and exciting, and exhilarating.

And like, money-wise its awesome.

But like, money isn't everything.

Like, I've said a million times here today.

I mean, it's just the like, what am I doing with myself and my life now?

And I think that, like, that's probably one of the biggest lessons I've learned in my life, is like, how important it is to have a sense of purpose.

KATE: Today, that sense of purpose is part of Alli's approach to healthy living.

Her good and messy life includes projects like Canopy: reimagined humidifiers that promote healthy skin.

The jewelry line Becket and Quill, the app based massage service Squeeze, and a new product line called, what else: Messy as well as The Messy Collective, a series of master classes that deal with life issues affecting female entrepreneurs.

ALLI: They get access to me, group calls, access to other female entrepreneurs.

I bring on my friends who are founders like, will you come on and talk to my you know, my group of entrepreneurs which they love.

So, I've gotten a lot of joy out of that.

And then, you know, also the next big thing that I'm working on is, you know, I can't help but say, like, going back to my roots, because I am, you know, starting a new hair brand, which I'm, like, over the moon about.

And the timing is so great and perfect, because I've been kind of noodling on this.

And like, hair is just like my thing, and always been my "why," you know?

And with the success of Messy and The Messy Truth and like, embracing my natural hair more.

And I think just as a society and as a culture, I mean, I love blowouts, I'll always love blowouts but I think we are going towards a little more of a... ...like more natural, less perfect look.

KATE: Yes.

ALLI: And I have just really embraced that personally.

And I've seen a lot of other women wanting to, like, not be such a slave to their hair and have products that work and that are easy to use.

And you know, are beautiful.

And so I'm embarking on a new product line called Messy... KATE: When people hear the name Alli Webb and they hear your story, you know, what do you want them, what do you want to be the big takeaway?

ALLI: I mean, I hope that people look at me and think like, if she did it, I can do it.

I really did get an education on the job.

I knew so little when we started this.

And I know so much now, and I want other women, and girls, you know, I speak to a lot of high school girls and a lot college girls.

And I want women to be like, Yeah, I can do this, like, I don't have to be a man.

I don't have to be, you know, have this fancy college degree.

There's no one path to it... KATE: Yeah.

ALLI: ...you know, and I really do believe that if I did it anybody can do it.

You just, it's like a lot of hard work, a lot of perseverance, a lot of passion.

KATE: Well, cheers to the messy.

Cheers to the messy truth.

ALLI: Yes, the magic is in the mess as we say.

KATE: Thank you for this brunch.

ALLI: Thank you.

KATE: It's been a delight.

Honestly, thank you, thank you.

KATE: What a meal with Alli Webb.

I got to experience her favorite brunch spot, a beautiful location with a breakfast burrito to die for.

Alli is not a college graduate, but boy did she earn an incredible education by leaning into what she really loved, blow-drying women's hair.

A niche skill.

She turned her side hustle into a $100 million dollar business.

No easy feat.

If you're wondering her secret recipe, she tells all.

Massive amounts of hard work, obsession with the customer experience, and attention to detail.

I would also add her ability to evolve, and to embrace the messy truth, not as a negative.

But as an asset.

KATE: If you would like to know more about the guests, the restaurants, and the inspiring stories of success, please visit ToDineForTV.com or follow us on Facebook and Instagram @ToDineForTV.

We also have a podcast.

To Dine For , The Podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... (Music and chatter) MAN: During the weekends, we do like a grill.

(Clatter of chess board) MAN #2: You know you have bragging rights in the hood.

I'm like, "My guy won the game."

(Clatter of chess piece and men yelling and cheering) FEMALE ANNOUNCER: At American National, we honor the "do"-ers and the dreamers: The people who gets things done and keep the world moving.

Our local agents are honored to serve your community, because it's their community, too.

American National.