Firing Line

Israel unsettled.

This week on Firing Line.

President Trump, my dear friend Donald, I'm so honored and humbled by your extraordinary endorsement.

-Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has President Trump's support going into Tuesday's elections in Israel.

But he's lost the support of many others around the world.

- Netanyahu, you're a liar!

- Including many Americans.

- There'll be a strong relationship between the United States and Israel, even if someone else were to be elected and there's a different government.

Because our relationship is not just personal, it is principled.

It comes at the heart of the fact that we both have the same enemies.

- Mike Huckabee is Trump's ambassador in Israel.

He was governor of Arkansas and a former evangelical pastor.

There is no such thing as a West Bank.

It's Judea and Samaria.

There's no such thing as a settlement.

They're communities, they're neighborhoods, they're cities.

There's no such thing as an occupation.

And they're beating them, yeah?

Yeah.

We got to get there.

As violence by Israeli settlers flares in the West Bank, the war in Iran looms over the midterm elections in the U.S.

And bipartisan backing for Israel frays.

What does Ambassador Mike Huckabee say now?

"Firing Line with Margaret Hoover" is made possible in part by... And by the following.

Welcome to "Firing Line," Ambassador Mike Huckabee.

Margaret, it is great to be with you.

Thank you for having me.

You are joining me from Jerusalem.

Israel recently marked three years since the horrific attacks that left approximately 1,200 people dead, including dozens of Americans.

How do you feel the relationship between the United States and Israel has changed in the three years since October 7th?

I think the relationship between our governments is still very, very strong.

There is an extraordinary partnership.

We see it at the intelligence level, counterterrorism.

We see it at the military and at the political echelon.

Let's be honest.

I think that there is some strain as it relates to the overall American population toward Israel.

And it's very disconcerting to me because it's not something that I saw coming.

I think after October 7th, there's been an enormous level of propaganda aimed toward Israel, a lot of poison information, much of it completely off the mark and untrue.

For example, that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, or that Israel is an apartheid state, or that Israel is engaging in ethnic cleansing.

And I can give you demonstrably good reasons why none of that is accurate.

But there are many Americans who get all of their news off of TikTok or Twitter or Instagram, and they have a very, very skewed vision and understanding of what's really happening here.

-I want to ask you about the Israeli elections, which will happen next week.

President Trump has officially endorsed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for re-election.

Vice President Vance notably declined to endorse him, saying he doesn't want to get involved.

But in announcing his endorsement of Prime Minister Netanyahu, Trump praised his role in the war in Iran and stated, "If Israel has the wrong leader, which would be anyone other than Bibi, America will have to do this work ourselves, and I'm not inclined to do so."

Ambassador, is the Trump administration's commitment to Israel contingent on who the Israeli people elect to run their government?

No, I don't think so.

There'll be a strong relationship between the United States and Israel, even if someone else were to be elected and there's a different government, because our relationship is not just personal.

It is principled.

It comes at the heart of the fact that we both have the same enemies.

The people who are radical jihadists, who have said for 47 years, "Death to America," have also said "Death to Israel."

President Trump understands that Iran is a real threat to America.

And if they were to have a nuclear weapon, they would become a very imminent threat to America.

They've already moved into the Western Hemisphere with their proxies like Hezbollah that is in 12 Western Hemisphere countries.

That's a dangerous situation for the United States, for them to be that close.

But the Iranian regime has never been shy about saying their ultimate goal is the destruction of America.

They feel like we're the infidels, and they need to take us down.

- President Trump has publicly stated that the U.S.

will not attack Iran before the U.S.

midterm elections.

And Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth made an unannounced visit to Israel this week.

This timing falls just eight days before the Israeli election, two weeks before the U.S.

midterms.

It is reported that the U.S.

and Israeli militaries have developed specific plans for renewed strikes against Iran after the American midterm elections.

With respect to the U.S.

and Israel's alliance against Iran, will we always have identical interests with Israel when it comes to engaging against Iran?

I think we do have identical interest.

Will we always have identical interests?

Out of the same breath that the Iranians have said death to Israel, they've said death to America.

When they say death to America, it's death to Israel.

They see us as very much a part of a value system that they want to destroy.

They see us as the infidels, those who stand in the way of jihad.

So it's pretty natural that the enemies of Israel are in fact the enemies of America and vice versa.

That's exactly what we're facing.

Let me say something that I don't think a lot of Americans appreciate.

This is not an issue just about Iran.

I've heard a lot of Americans say, "We don't really have any interest in Iran.

It doesn't do anything for us.

It's not something connected to us."

But it actually is.

And it's very, very important that Americans understand that that same Iranian regime has killed thousands of Americans directly and through proxies like Hamas, the Houthis, and Hezbollah.

To say that we're not somehow threatened by them is a statement of extraordinary naivete.

- I'd like to ask you about the West Bank.

I'm going to show the audience a map.

There is an area on the right that is in blue, which is called the West Bank because it's the West Bank of the River Jordan.

And it is not legally part of Israel, but it's under Israel's military control.

And Israel has been building Jewish settlements there since 1967.

Last week, Ambassador, an American journalist with The Washington Post named Heidi Levine was brutally attacked in the West Bank by a crowd of Israeli settlers.

And she was left with four fractured vertebrae, two broken ribs, four puncture wounds.

You condemned the attack very vociferously.

And Ambassador, this isn't the first time that you have spoken out against settler violence in the West Bank.

Why do these incidents concern you?

Well, they concern me because violence and terrorism at any level concerns me.

It is just something that is inexcusable, indefensible.

And so there's nothing other than to say this was an evil terrorist attack on an innocent journalist.

Should never have happened.

And we have to condemn it.

It's unfortunate and frustrating and sometimes it's just disgusting.

But the total number of Israelis who are living in Judea and Samaria is about 500,000.

By anybody's estimate, the people responsible for some of these acts probably are in the low hundreds, maybe a couple of hundred.

I hope Israel will not just -- They have arrested, I think, 12 people in regards to some of these actions this week.

I hope they serve long prison sentences, especially for the attack on Heidi Levine.

-I should note, you just said Judea and Samaria, which is what most individuals understand to be the West Bank.

And that's a term that often individuals who have a very specific biblical interpretation and understanding of the Holy Land use because it is believed that, in that interpretation, that land belongs to Israel.

Is that fair?

-It's a little more than that.

I mean, the terms "Judea" and "Samaria" are 3,000 years old, and they do, in fact, delineate that part of what has been ancient Israel and even modern Israel.

And that's a term that is descriptive, and it is one that is geographically definable.

So it's not just biblical.

It is certainly that.

But it is a historically relevant term that I think is more descriptive.

You, of course, realize that it's a controversial term.

It's certainly a politically loaded term.

But let me just get back quickly to Heidi Levine.

Do you believe that her attackers will be held accountable under Israeli law?

I certainly hope so.

And we have been given assurances by the Israeli government that they would.

I've talked to the prime minister, to the president, to the foreign minister.

And I think the people of Israel, almost to a person, they're embarrassed by something like this.

They are appalled.

So I do believe that these arrests are going to result in vigorous prosecution.

One thing I can assure you, the United States is going to be not just monitoring it, but calling repeatedly that there will be serious consequences for the attack on her.

- In the immediate aftermath of the attack against Heidi Levine, the Prime Minister's office effectively justified the attack by casting doubt and calling it a disputed incident.

Levine has said she's not very hopeful her attackers will be brought to justice.

She said, "It's not just arresting these teenage thugs.

It's going after their leaders, their rabbis, and how they're organized."

What is your reaction to that?

Well, I mean, the Prime Minister was very clear in condemning the attack on Heidi Levine.

That's without dispute.

And that has been the universal view, and it's been expressed, including by the governor of the Yesha Council, which is the leading elected person in Judea and Samaria, Yisrael Gantz.

And he is embarrassed and appalled, ashamed of people who would do this, because it makes all of the people who live in Judea and Samaria who are Israel, Israelis or Jewish, it makes them all look like they're a part of this, and they aren't.

So it's so very frustrating, I think, to most Israelis when they see something like the attack, and they just think, "Why would anyone do something so foolish, so stupid, so criminal?"

It just is counterproductive to everything the Israelis need to be doing right now.

I know you believe they should be brought to justice, but do you believe they will?

In this case, I do.

I really do think they will be.

Are you saying in this case because there are many cases where such terrorists are not brought to justice?

I think there have been times in the past, and one of the things I've observed is when there are certain attacks, it's difficult to get the people who are attacked, if they're on the Palestinian side, to file a police report.

In the case of Heidi Levine, I can tell you this.

There has been a very serious, robust effort to find the people.

There already have been between 10 and 14 arrests, some of whom are not connected to the Heidi Levine attack but to another nearby situation.

I think the Israelis are fed up with this vigilante activity and know that they are going to have to bring people not just to an arrest but to an adjudication and to serious consequences that include prison sentences.

Wow.

I'd like to ask you, Ambassador Huckabee, since October 7th, the idea of a two-state solution has fallen further from reach, even amongst the most liberal Israelis.

Your position is that you don't support a two-state solution.

You have in the past supported annexing the West Bank.

Is it fair to say that you effectively support a one-state solution?

As an ambassador, I don't get to make the policy.

I carry out the policy of the president and of the United States government.

So sure, there have been personal positions I have taken through the years, but in this position I will follow the direction of the president because he was the only one that got elected.

I did not.

Let me say, one of the reasons that I think there has been a maybe declining interest and support for a two-state solution among Israelis is because on October the 7th, all throughout the Palestinian Authority, there was dancing in the street, there was celebration.

Keep in mind that the people who came over from Gaza, the Hamas soldiers, they didn't just kill them.

They massacred them, butchered them, raped women in front of their families.

They inflicted not just physical pain and torture, but an enormous level of humiliation and emotional and spiritual torture on the people they killed.

And I want to mention something, because a lot of Americans may not fully comprehend this.

First of all, there were 46 Americans killed on October the 7th and 18 Americans taken hostage.

Israel is a small country, 10 million people, 1,200 people being slaughtered and 251 being taken hostage.

If we scale that up to the U.S.

population, it would be the equivalent of 40,000 Americans being massacred in one day and 10,000 people being taken hostage.

And I've asked people when they say, "Well, Israel shouldn't have reacted so strongly."

What would America's reaction be if a group of drug cartel people came over from Tijuana, went into San Diego, and massacred 40,000 Americans, took 10,000 hostage back across the border, and while in captivity, starve them, beat them, rape them, and deprive them, and in some cases, murder them?

Would we respond by sending a strongly worded letter or filing a resolution at the United Nations?

I think every American, no matter his or her point of view on the political spectrum, would know that that would not be America's reaction any more than it was America's reaction on 9/11 when 3,000 Americans were murdered by jihadists.

You have credited Ambassador declining American support for Israel on foreign propaganda, social media, and biblical illiteracy.

In a Pew Research survey conducted in March, 60% of Americans said they had an unfavorable opinion of Israel, and that has increased 20 points since 2022, and it includes 41% of Republicans.

Ambassador, can you explain what you mean by biblical illiteracy?

I think if people don't understand the long-standing history that the Jewish people have had presence in this land for 3,800 years.

For those people in America who are by nature faith individuals who believe the scripture, or at least they claim to, it's very difficult for me to reconcile those who say, "Yes, I believe the Bible, but, no, I don't really believe the Jews have any connection to the land.

No, I don't think that really God made a covenant with Abraham that is irreversible and that cannot be broken."

So, that's what I mean by biblical illiteracy.

You know, Ambassador, you, of course, were a Baptist pastor before you entered public service, and for many evangelical Christians, the modern state of Israel has a significance that goes well beyond geopolitics.

You just alluded to that a bit.

It's rooted, as I understand, in an understanding of biblical prophecy, the second coming of Christ.

And I wonder if for Americans who don't share your interpretation of Scripture, and those who don't believe the Bible should determine the territorial claims of modern nations, how do you explain the distinction between what you believe God has promised Israel and what American foreign policy ought to support?

Incredibly fair question, Margaret.

And let me just say that I don't have any idea about where the future is going to be in the second coming.

I think when I was 18, I probably had it all figured out.

The older I've gotten, the dumber I've become.

I have no idea when it's going to happen or how it's going to happen.

So I don't think this is about looking at some evangelical point of view.

It's trying to be as objective as possible.

And if we took only known history if we took only archaeology and left the Bible out of it, I don't know how we would come to any other conclusion other than there has been Jewish presence in this land for 3,800 years.

Fair point.

I certainly understand that perspective.

How do you distinguish between what you believe God has promised Israel and what American foreign policy ought to support?

I mean, I believe American foreign policy ought to be in the best interest of America.

Our foreign policy is not based on a biblical scripture.

My own personal views, my faith views, that certainly will influence me.

I don't hide from that.

And I need to be honest and transparent about where those come from.

But with the same token, it's not that I feel like that we should impose, let's say, my particular faith perspective on foreign policy.

Our foreign policy ought to be based on one thing -- Is this good for America?

Is this good for the American people?

And if it isn't, then we don't pursue it.

Ambassador, in 1972, William F. Buckley Jr.

hosted Shimon Peres on "Firing Line."

Peres would go on to serve twice as Israel's prime minister.

And I'd like you to listen to Peres explaining why the United States must support Israel.

If America remains a member of our civilization, we'll continue to take a leading part in the destiny of our people, of the free world, and she must, because if she won't, the young generation in the United States will lose completely its confidence in any sort of freedom.

Peres argues, Ambassador, that if the United States abandons Israel, it is abandoning its commitment to the ideals that unite the free world.

But today, we see Americans, especially younger Americans, arguing that it's Israel that has abandoned those ideals.

How do you answer that?

-Truth will be the best weapon possible.

The fact that there are many Americans, particularly younger ones, who think that Israel has abandoned those basic principles, I would say they're simply wrong.

This is what they think.

This is what they believe.

This is maybe what they feel.

But thinking, feeling and believing, those aren't facts.

I understand what you're saying, Ambassador.

I think that the numbers still support the fact that there are increasing numbers of Americans and youth that simply don't believe that this Israeli government is aligned with their values.

And look, we all heard over and over again after the October 7th attacks by Hamas on Israel.

♪ From the river to the sea ♪ - The chants from Palestinian supporters from the river to the sea, which is interpreted understandably as the necessary annihilation of Israel as a state.

Part of what this next generation hears is when Benjamin Netanyahu uses the same phrase to describe Israel's ambitions.

He says Israel must have security control over the entire territory west of the Jordan.

The Likud Party platform says, "Between the sea and the Jordan, there will be only Israeli sovereignty."

How do you explain to a generation that it is okay when he says it, but not okay when they hear the calls from the left to the river from the river to the sea.

I've not heard the Prime Minister declare that Israel is going to annex all of Judea and Samaria.

Israel signed the Oslo Accords in 1993.

They've been disastrous in terms of their impact and effect, but they've been signed by both the Palestinian Authority, which was created in 1993 by the Oslo Accords, as well as by Israel.

- Prime Minister Netanyahu did say "from the river to the sea," according to English translations of Israeli news, and it does strike a generation of Americans as somewhat hypocritical.

But I want to move on.

Anti-Semitism is on the rise.

You have spoken about it extensively.

How do you contend with the critics who say it's actually the actions of the current Israeli government that are making the world less safe for Jews and fanning the flames of anti-Semitism?

How do you contend with that critique?

I always am wondering exactly what is it that the Israeli government specifically did that gives people a reason to hate Jews?

I don't get it.

I don't see it.

I hear people say, well, they prosecuted the war aggressively.

You bet they did.

They were trying to get their hostages back, which, by the way, included Americans.

The entirety of the Gaza War would have been over on October the 8th if Hamas had surrendered.

But they didn't.

They continued to torture and hold the hostages.

And so Israel took great lengths to try to prevent civilian deaths.

And if you talk to someone like John Spencer, who is the world's leading authority on urban warfare and on genocide, he will tell you quickly, categorically, it has not been genocide in Gaza and it hasn't.

Israel has vaccinated one million children against polio and every single day trucks with humanitarian aid and food roll into Gaza.

So if you're trying to destroy a population and you want to kill them all and commit genocide, I would say Israel's done a lousy job of it.

Because if you're trying to kill them all, you don't vaccinate them, you don't feed them and give them medical supplies.

So it's a ludicrous accusation to say that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

- Ambassador, Mark Dubowitz, the CEO of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, who is, as you know, a strong supporter both of Israel and of the war in Iran, warned in recent weeks that going into this election, Israelis must consider how their government is impacting their global standing.

He wrote, "Israel's friends cannot indefinitely compensate for decisions made in Jerusalem that erode international support for the country."

Do you disagree?

I do disagree because I think there are a lot of people who want to politicize specifically the current Israeli government and make it as if they would act totally different than anyone else who is running the government.

I'm not sure that's true.

And what we see in Israel since October the 7th, there is no political left in this country anymore.

There just isn't.

On national security, everybody is to the right of center.

Everybody believes that that has to be the number-one priority.

I don't know of any candidate on any part of the political spectrum horizontally that disagrees with that.

- Well, there's a very contested election around the corner in Israel where the current prime minister has a very robust block of opponents, and we shall see what the Israeli people, if the Israeli people agree with you, that there will be no difference between a new Netanyahu government or an anti-Netanyahu government.

Ambassador Huckabee, thank you so much for your time and for joining me on "Firing Line."

Thank you, Margaret.

It's been a real pleasure, and I appreciate you having me on for a thoughtful discussion, and I hope we get to visit again soon.

I do, too.

Thank you so much.

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