Podcasts

Murv Seymour:
Chairman Gena Kakkak. Welcome to “In Focus.”

Gena Kakkak:
Well, thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here with you.

Murv Seymour:
Well, we’ve been working on this and I’ve been dabbling in the local language here. So, posoh.

Gena Kakkak:
Posoh.

Murv Seymour:
Yes. Means hello.

Gena Kakkak:
Yes.

Murv Seymour:
Welcome, kind of a hala, I was told.

Gena Kakkak:
Yep, yep, you got that right.

Murv Seymour:
I’d love to just start with a little bit about, just in a historical perspective because this is an opportunity, you know, for you and us to speak to a statewide audience, but what is it about Menominee Tribe you think that folks need to know about, the culture, the life, and the relationship with the community outside of the reservation?

Gena Kakkak:
Okay. So I think it’s important to know that the Menominee tribe are the original people of Wisconsin. Our creation story begins at the mouth of the Menominee River, and it’s just a short drive from here. And we’ve been here for tens of thousands of years. And so I think that’s important for people to be aware of, and we have been blessed to be able to stay on our original homeland.

Murv Seymour:
How much do you think folks outside the reservation know about the culture? ‘Cause I think about this in terms of like, you know, outside of dabbling at a casino across the country on a reservation, I’ve probably never been on a Native reservation. And I would say as a reporter, I live somewhat of a privileged life and get to be exposed to a lot of different things, and I would think that there are a lot of people across the state who don’t get a chance to come on tribal lands. But how much do you think folks outside the tribal lands know about the community here?

Gena Kakkak:
I don’t know if the outside of the reservation is very knowledgeable, are fully aware of what we do, what we’re about, who we are, what we offer. And we are seeing that next generation of tribal members come into leadership roles, and the importance of being able to tell our story and having that story come from us as Menominee people. And so we’re seeing that change and the importance of educating people in that we’re still here and we’re the original people, and we’re still on our original homeland.

Murv Seymour:
How important is that relationship with the outside community to have a connection to it as well, as well as the folks here on the reservation?

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm. Well, I think it’s very important because we’re neighbors, and we should be working together and supporting together, and we all live within the state of Wisconsin. And to have good relationships with neighboring counties and businesses is beneficial for all of us.

Murv Seymour:
Do you feel like Wisconsin as a whole is doing a good job in terms of paying attention to folks that live on Native lands?

Gena Kakkak:
I think that there’s been, in the more recent, you know, past few years that there’s been more acknowledgement of the Indigenous people that live in Wisconsin.

Murv Seymour:
And that’s a good thing, right?

Gena Kakkak:
Yes, that’s a good thing.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah. Let’s talk a little bit about your journey into tribal politics. How did you know that this was going to be a space for you that you’d want to commit your life to?

Gena Kakkak:
I don’t know if it is something that, as Menominee, that we want to be doing or grow to be doing. I think it’s something greater than that. I think it’s something that’s instilled with us that it’s our responsibility. It’s our responsibility to take on those teachings that have been passed on through generations and to be able to guide and support one another. And so when the decision was made, it’s a family decision for me because we’re a very family-orientated family and we do a lot of things with our children, and we’re very active.

Murv Seymour:
And you say we, you mean the tribal community itself or just yourself personally?

Gena Kakkak:
Well, for me personally, with my husband, and… So we had to make that decision ’cause we knew it would be an impact on the family with the children, and…

Murv Seymour:
But I read that you started working in tribal government really early, like in your teen years or?

Gena Kakkak:
I did. One of the first jobs I had was within our tribal chairman’s office back in the early ’90s. And so I think that just kind of stuck with me throughout life, and…

Murv Seymour:
It was something important to you to be a part of?

Gena Kakkak:
When it was time to make that decision, you know, bringing it to my family and discussing it with them, and is this something that you think, you know, we should do? They’re very supportive and it’s been an honor to be seated up here with the fellow leaders of the tribe. And I try and make the best decision that I can. You know, I’ll do my homework and I’ll make sure that getting the background, historical information, and a lot of prayers. A lot of prayers go into it, asking for that strength and that guidance so that making sure we’re making the right decision for the betterment of our people.

Murv Seymour:
I’m curious to know how you would describe the community environment here in terms of the people, their family, like, the things that everybody tends to have in common. How would you describe that?

Gena Kakkak:
We’re a very communal community, I guess. We have relationships with everyone. We’re very close-knit, supportive of each other, and we do look at that as we’re all related, we’re all Menominee. So it’s a very close-knit communal space, I guess, for us.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah. And as tribal chair, a lot of folks outside may not understand that that’s the equivalent of being the president.

Gena Kakkak:
Right.

Murv Seymour:
Of a land.

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm.

Murv Seymour:
I’d be remiss if I wouldn’t ask someone in your position to maybe give us a sense of the state of things for the Menominee tribe right now in Wisconsin.

Gena Kakkak:
Okay. So that is something, we are a sovereign nation, and that’s exactly it, that it’s the chairperson of the tribe is equivalent to the President of the United States. We do have relationships that we keep, government-to-government relationships with tribal, other tribal nations, state level and federal. So I think right now for our tribe, like a lot of tribes, we are still seeing the impacts of the pandemic. We’re looking at a lot of different issues with behavior health and our youth and homeless and AODA issues. So there’s, we’re seeing that being, coming out of the pandemic, being related to that, an increase in those types of issues.

Murv Seymour:
And how are you addressing it?

Gena Kakkak:
We have teams in place. We have committee work that gets done. And we did get the help of, you know, the ARPA funding. We do have assistance through different grants. We have teams in place, we have a great team of grant writers. But there’s issues that we have a number of, I guess, unmet needs that we struggle with.

Murv Seymour:
What are those, you think?

Gena Kakkak:
AODA issues, homelessness. We have a large population of elderly and a facility for our aging that we need to expand on. We have, you know, health care that is looking for, hopefully at some point, a new health care facility. Our youth, we support our youth as much as possible to try and make sure that we’re being able to offer them the prevention and intervention for AODA issues.

Murv Seymour:
Now AODA, what does that stand?

Gena Kakkak:
Alcohol and other drug abuse.

Murv Seymour:
Gotcha. I also read too that, you know, not just here on tribal lands, but throughout Menominee County, you know, the health outcomes in this county are the worst of any county in the state. What do you think is uniquely different about what’s causing that here in the Menominee land?

Gena Kakkak:
There’s only one Menominee tribe, and when we look at the data to our per capita, it is alarmingly concerning. We have our enrollment of close to 9,000 members. And I know our, like our elderly population alone is almost as big as some small tribes. We are one of the larger tribes in the state of Wisconsin, and we’re ranked with health outcomes the least healthiest in the state of Wisconsin. And so there’s, again, like a lot of our unmet needs that we’re trying to address with limited resources.

Murv Seymour:
We talked about, you know, the health outcomes in terms of marijuana use, overall drug use, and education dropout. Those sorts of things are some of the worst numbers out there. How bad is it?

Gena Kakkak:
Okay, so from an omni, opioid is in the top three of the substance abuse within our community. In 2023, we had 76% contributed to the deaths of opioid. So again, like when I’m talking about our per capita, that was 17 total deaths, but that’s high for us.

Murv Seymour:
Right, that sounds like a small number, but–

Gena Kakkak:
Right.

Murv Seymour:
If you’ve only got, you know, 8,700 folks on your tribe.

Gena Kakkak:
That’s high. So some things that we are looking at is we’re developing, we have developed, we’ve taken action, we have developed a drug intervention team, and it’s a multidisciplinary group of people from within our community, and they’re working towards creating those plans to address what we’re dealing with. And some of that includes prevention and intervention activities within the community, training for clinical and peer workforce, bringing in peer specialists, recovery coaches. Community members have also taken the initiative to start their own recovery groups. And so if we’re able to support them in any way, you know, that team is available to help them with moving their plans forward too.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah, I think I read somewhere you made a comment saying, “We’ve done the research, we’ve seen the data,” what needs to happen now?

Gena Kakkak:
Well, what we’re hearing from our community, ’cause we continue to meet with our tribal members, we continue to hear from them, and one thing that we’re hearing a lot of is they want prevention, they want intervention. Since the pandemic, you know, like I had said, we’re moving out of that, but it’s taken a little longer to bring those things back into light again.

Murv Seymour:
Mm-hmm.

Gena Kakkak:
You know, we had that all in place prior. And so we’re hearing from the community they want more prevention activities. And so that’s something that we are working towards.

Murv Seymour:
And we know you have, and I hope I say this proper, the Matawakin Wellness Center. Am I saying that the right way? Excuse my…

Gena Kakkak:
Maehnowesekiyah?

Murv Seymour:
Maehnowesekiyah.

Gena Kakkak:
Maehnowesekiyah.

Murv Seymour:
I worked on that.

Gena Kakkak:
Yeah.

Murv Seymour:
For an hour before we started this interview.

Gena Kakkak:
Yeah. [Gena chuckles]

Murv Seymour:
But we know you, you know, do treatment there and you serve the people in that way, but I know you would like to expand that. And there was a recent attempt to open up a new treatment center off the reservation, and that was not approved by the folks in that community off reservation. Why is it important to open something up off the reservation?

Gena Kakkak:
Are we talking about the Great Lakes Intertribal Council Youth Center?

Murv Seymour:
Yes.

Gena Kakkak:
Okay. We are looking at, tribes are collaborating together and we are looking at trying to, we’re moving towards a youth treatment facility that all youth from tribal nations are welcome, and so it’s not centralized anywhere, but it’s off-reservation where it can be open to all Indigenous youth that may need that assistance.

Murv Seymour:
How do you get the folks, outside the reservation again, to care about these types of issues and to be vested with you? How do you do that?

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm. I think a big part of it is education. I think that, you know, building those relationships and helping to educate on what our needs are and how we can work together. ‘Cause it’s not just within reservations; it’s everywhere. It doesn’t just impact us here in Menominee. It doesn’t just impact, you know, other relatives on other reservations. It’s the entire state. So we have to come together and work together.

Murv Seymour:
And I know in Menominee and the Spirit Lake tribes in North Dakota have filed a lawsuit against some of the social media companies for issues around damage done to teens that use social media. And I know you can’t talk about the lawsuit specifically, but can you speak to your concerns about the impact of social media on youth in your community?

Gena Kakkak:
So we did join the litigation. And our legal team that’s working with that, I would refer you to them so they can schedule a time to sit with you and have a further conversation.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah. But you can’t speak to your concerns about social media in general, not necessarily naming anybody or speaking to anybody specifically, but?

Gena Kakkak:
So personally for me, with my own children, you know, there’s concerns. We do limit their time. We limit their screen time and try and make sure that we have a healthy connection to it. I don’t think it’s going away. But as their parents, it’s our responsibility to make sure they understand and are aware of the… Being able to handle things in a healthy way.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah.

Gena Kakkak:
So we try and raise our kids in a good way and make sure that they’re aware of anything that might be dangerous or at risk or, you know. And that’s personally for my family.

Murv Seymour:
Right.

Gena Kakkak:
With our kids, yeah.

Murv Seymour:
It seems like for a lot of communities, there’s always this concern about, you know, culture, you know, historical traditions as they kind of come together with technology and innovation.

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm.

Murv Seymour:
How much of that is in play in terms of, like, technology infringing on tradition for the Menominee tribe?

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm. I guess it would be on what we would consider infringing, I guess. It’s…

Murv Seymour:
Like, do you think-

Gena Kakkak:
For example, I’m gonna share an example with you. We have a grassroots movement, Menominee U, and it started throughout the pandemic and it has grown, and they offer Menominee language online. So there’s people all over that are able to log on and learn. So that’s a benefit, you know, that’s helpful for people who may not have had the opportunity so now they can go online and do it.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah.

Gena Kakkak:
So it’s, I mean, it can be helpful.

Murv Seymour:
But tradition has to be important for your community, I would imagine, like holding onto it, and like you mentioned language, like I know there’s a dwindling population of folks that speak the native tongue.

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm.

Murv Seymour:
Here on the reservation. Like, how do you address those sorts of things?

Gena Kakkak:
I think by supporting the initiatives and the efforts that are there. And we see a positive change and we do see an increase, and there’s more people wanting to learn that language. And part of that language is also learning culture and traditions that are connected to it. And so it’s important for me to stay connected to our culture and traditions. It helps me to stay grounded and stay balanced.

Murv Seymour:
Can you give us a snapshot in terms of how prevalent the native language is here in terms of how many folks still speak it and use it?

Gena Kakkak:
It’s limited, but it’s growing. So… Well, you can go into a store and you can hear people speaking and having conversations. And so it is growing to where it’s being normalized. It’s being normalized again in the community.

Murv Seymour:
That has to bring you some joy, right?

Gena Kakkak:
It is, it’s a powerful feeling, and it’s just a amazing feeling.

Murv Seymour:
Do you worry ever about it going away and no one is speaking the language at some point? Like, is it headed in that direction at all?

Gena Kakkak:
I hope not. I, you know, I hope not. And we have to be able to do our part. We have, with my own children, my son who’s in high school, committed to a two-year program for the youth immersion program. Our five-year-old daughter, we put her into the immersion program. And as a family, we take the online Menominee language classes. So we have to do our part.

Murv Seymour:
I’m curious to know, as chairperson, how do you handle all these weights, these heavy weights of these issues that you’re coping with and trying to manage and solve? How do you handle all that? How does that hit you personally?

Gena Kakkak:
It can be exhausting. It can be exhausting knowing the weight and the responsibility. But I’m not alone. There’s nine of us on our tribal council. We all are very supportive to one another, we agree to disagree. We are able to share that workload. We have a management team that is also helpful and supportive, and… So when we need decisions made, it’s not just coming from myself or, you know. It’s a collaborative effort of all of us. And again, that’s what I mean when I say that it’s the responsibility when we’re in these leadership roles that we work together and we make those decisions together. We’re doing what we can in the best interest of the Menominee people and the tribe.

Murv Seymour:
And I was interested to find in your role as chairperson, you’re in this capacity in these one-year terms.

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm.

Murv Seymour:
So every year, you’re having to be voted in.

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm.

Murv Seymour:
Is that enough time? I mean, it’s like, you know, you think of a presidency and the leadership in our typical U.S. government. I think we would love if we could get a new president every year. [Gena laughing]

Gena Kakkak:
Yeah.

Murv Seymour:
But do you feel like, does that work in your favor or is it tougher to get things done in that short kind of a space? ‘Cause, in what term are you on right now?

Gena Kakkak:
So I am in my second term as chairperson.

Murv Seymour:
Okay.

Gena Kakkak:
My second year as chairperson. And I’m in my second term as a seated legislator. So I finished one term, just a three-year term.

Murv Seymour:
Mm-hmm.

Gena Kakkak:
Reelected, and coming into my second term. Then I was voted on to be the chairperson last year, and then again this year, the ask was if I would continue. And it’s been exhausting work, like I said, but it’s helpful ’cause I’m not doing it alone.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah. So my question would be, this short term that I see, is that helping you get more things done or is it making it harder to get things done?

Gena Kakkak:
I think within the first year, it was difficult because it was also a learning for me. It was also trying to find my flow, I guess, you know. And so, that first year was a little bit more difficult. Coming into the second year has been a little bit more easier and there wasn’t that transition, I guess, that takes some time to keep moving on.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah.

Gena Kakkak:
So I think it would be interesting with the new generation of legislators that are coming in. You know, we are seeing that it is difficult with only a one-year term, and if the body would agree to continue that chairperson in the role throughout that chair’s legislative term, I guess, it might be more productive for us.

Murv Seymour:
I’d also be curious to hear you maybe give your insight in the differences between a tribal government versus a typical U.S. government, like how that works and what people should understand.

Gena Kakkak:
I think within our tribal government, our priorities are elders and our youth. Those are two groups that we tend to always focus on to make sure that they’re being taken care of. Making sure that they’re being provided for.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah.

Gena Kakkak:
I don’t know if that happens in the federal government or the state government. But for our tribal nation, that’s our focus is our elders and our youth.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah, and what’s going well for the Menominee tribe?

Gena Kakkak:
I think we have a lot of things to be proud of and a lot of things that are happening. We have a lot of services that we’re able to provide to our membership. And although we are heavily dependent on grants, we’re not by any means the, any of the richest tribes. We have a small, modest tribal budget, but it all goes back into our services to make sure that services are provided for the membership.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah. And you bring up money, I know the Menominee and other Native tribes here in the state of Wisconsin receive a piece of the opioid settlement. I think it’s roughly six, seven million bucks split around the different tribes. How is that helping in terms of dealing with some of the problems?

Gena Kakkak:
Mm-hmm. So we did receive opioid settlement funds, and we are using those to assist us with combating some of the more serious, I guess, issues, making sure that we have those things in place, like the clinical staff, that’s competitive all over, not just here, everywhere, you know. And we’re collaborating with outside agencies to try and assist with counseling services, referrals, treatment services. And so, what we are receiving is going right back into helping us combat the opioid addiction.

Murv Seymour:
Yeah, I take it you’re big on treatment, not necessarily punishment when it comes to addiction.

Gena Kakkak:
Right. Yep. I don’t think we can criminalize someone who is struggling with addiction. They’re asking for support, you know. They’re, they’re… I think what I’ve seen with how it’s affected, I guess, myself and my family where loved ones that we know, and it’s that looking for a purpose and feeling that self-esteem, feeling valuable and helping through their traumas and meeting ’em where they’re at. And if that means, you know, walking through the doors with them to treatment and just giving them that support.

Murv Seymour:
And you mentioned trauma. How much has this community been affected by generational trauma?

Gena Kakkak:
Hmm.

Murv Seymour:
And what kind of things would that be?

Gena Kakkak:
Yeah. So… We deal with trauma and we do our best to try and practice trauma-informed care. There’s things that we’re seeing since the pandemic with the increase of the opioid addictions, and our children are losing parents. Our children are being raised by grandparents. Our children are witnessing overdoses. Our children are needing education and prevention and intervention services at a younger age. And I think it’s important for us to address ’em as soon as we can. And that’s always, I guess for me, that’s been a concern, ’cause I come from working in our school district, and starting to see the young ones being affected by the addictions and the overdoses. I was like, okay, but when they’re getting into high school, are we prepared for how this is gonna impact their lives? So I think it’s really important that we address those as soon as we can.

Murv Seymour:
Let’s talk the future. What does the future look like for the Menominee tribe? What do you see?

Gena Kakkak:
I’m always hopeful. And I see us always moving forward and always progressing. And we have a lot of things going for us. We’ve done studies on our, within our educational department and keeping the data of how many graduates we have from, up to a bachelor’s and a master’s and doctorates, and. So it’s a very proud, something to be very proud of that we have that here, and we’ll continue to grow, we’ll continue to progress forward. And it’s gonna be exciting for my kids, ’cause I can see the changes happening and it’s gonna be a better life and a better opportunity for them when they become adults.

Murv Seymour:
And why do you care so much?

Gena Kakkak:
I think that’s part of our Menominee values that come with us is you always try and make sure that things are taken care of for the next generations.

Murv Seymour:
All right. Chairwoman Kakkak, thank you so much for being on “In Focus” with us.

Gena Kakkak:
Well, thank you for having me.

Murv Seymour:
Wanawean. [Gena chuckles]

Gena Kakkak:
Waewaenon.

Murv Seymour:
I knew I was gonna mess that up. [Gena laughing] Waewaenon.

Gena Kakkak:
Yep, weaewaenon.

Murv Seymour:
Thank you so much.

Gena Kakkak:
Yeah.

Murv Seymour:
Appreciate you.