Podcasts

Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production. You’re watching “Here & Now” 2024 election coverage.

Frederica Freyberg:
Tuesday election results capture Wisconsin voter sentiments for the campaign trail ahead. And swing state status brings presidential electioneering

Donald Trump:
There’s never been such spirit. Look, we won in 2016. We did much better in 2020.

Frederica Freyberg:
and lies.

Donald Trump:
A helluva lot better.

Frederica Freyberg:
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” we unpack the spring election results. Plus, how the system for student financial aid applications is a blunder of errors. Then, alongside record enrollment, the growing trend of healthcare.gov fraud. And finally, the David and Goliath fight between the Bad River Tribe and Enbridge Oil. It’s “Here & Now” for April 5.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
The good news for the major party presidential candidates Joe Biden and Donald Trump: they, of course, won in Tuesday’s election. The bad news: they lost votes either to other candidates or to the uninstructed vote. What to make of this as the latest national Marquette Law School poll shows it an even race. We turn to Anthony Chergosky, political science professor at UW-La Crosse. Thanks very much for being here.

Anthony Chergosky:
Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
So Joe Biden saw more than 42,000 people vote uninstructed, presumably over his position on Israel and Gaza. He only won Wisconsin in 2020 by 20,000 votes. How big of a red flag is this for Joe Biden?

Anthony Chergosky:
I think it’s a red flag for sure because Wisconsin was decided so narrowly in 2020. In fact, the uninstructed movement had a goal of 20,000 votes and they easily surpassed that. It was a symbolic goal because 20,000 was roughly the margin of victory for Joe Biden in the last presidential election here in Wisconsin between Biden and Trump. So in Wisconsin, any little movement of voters can make the difference, any little shift here and there can make a difference. So there are certainly some cause — there’s certainly some cause for concern for the Biden campaign.

Frederica Freyberg:
How likely do you think it would be that he would change direction on his support of Israel because of this?

Anthony Chergosky:
I’m not sure how likely it would be, Fred, but what I can say is there’s a long time between now and the November election. One of the unusual aspects of this general election campaign is just how long it’s going to be. There’s a lifetime between now and November, so I can imagine that the policies and the issues are going to evolve and we could be in a very different place by the time we get to November.

Frederica Freyberg:
On the other side of the aisle, Donald Trump saw more than 120,000 people vote for someone else on the ballot, like a Nikki Haley, and he had his own 19,000 uninstructed voters. Is this worse for him or for Biden at this point?

Anthony Chergosky:
I think the two sides have different concerns. For Biden, the uninstructed movement had specific issues with the Biden administration. They had specific objections to the policies and the approaches of the Biden administration. On the Republican side, we’ve seen this time and time again in states during this nomination process, where there’s a certain chunk of Republican voters who just aren’t there when it comes to voting for Donald Trump in November or feeling like they’re ready to vote for Donald Trump in November. We’ve seen Nikki Haley consistently peel off key voters in the suburbs, those white-collar professionals, college graduates who have always been problematic for Donald Trump within the Republican coalition. So Biden and Trump have concerns coming out of the April election here in Wisconsin, but those concerns are very different in nature.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what breaks loose if an RFK, Jr. independent makes it onto the ballot?

Anthony Chergosky:
I think RFK could have a key impact on the election, not because he has any shot of winning Wisconsin, but because he could take on that spoiler role. And from the April election results here in Wisconsin, we know that there are Democrats who are unhappy with Biden. We know there are Republicans who are unhappy with Trump. The key question is if third party candidates can be that landing spot for voters on either side who are not happy with the candidate of their party. We could also see unhappy voters on either side plug their nose and vote for the candidate of their party. So a long time to go between now and November, but I do think the influence of third-party candidates is well worth watching.

Frederica Freyberg:
So Republicans won their two constitutional amendments in Wisconsin prohibiting private grants in running elections. How suggestive is that win when it comes to election outcomes in November?

Anthony Chergosky:
I am a bit hesitant about making predictions for November based on the April elections. We’re going to continue to see substantially higher voter turnout in November and there’s a lot of time for the campaign to play out between now and November, a lot of time for voters to make up their minds. And the psychology of voters, the decision-making process of the voters is going to change as we get closer and closer to November. So I’m not sure I would read too much into it, but what I can say is that Republicans were effective at messaging those constitutional amendments. They were effective at firing up their base on the issue of election integrity.

Frederica Freyberg:
So meanwhile, Donald Trump continues to campaign on the lie, frankly, that he beat Joe Biden in Wisconsin in the last election including this week in Green Bay. Why is this persuasion so enduring in Wisconsin and elsewhere?

Anthony Chergosky:
Because it comes from the top. Donald Trump is the unquestioned leader of the Republican Party and so Republican voters are going to respond when Donald Trump says something. Fred, I think it speaks to the bind that Republicans are in. We’ve had people, higher ups in the Wisconsin Republican Party, people like Ron Johnson, trying to encourage Republican voters to vote early, vote by mail, but then Donald Trump comes to Green Bay and casts doubt on votes by mail. He calls it a recipe for fraud. So with the Trump influence in the Republican Party, frequently you have Donald Trump saying one thing even as party leaders are trying to push the party into a different direction, such as with vote by mail.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. We leave it there. Anthony Chergosky, thanks very much.

Anthony Chergosky:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
In education news, the UW Board of Regents this week approved a tuition hike that averages nearly $400 more per year. For many college-bound students, part of planning for costs includes filling out the free application for federal student aid or FAFSA. It’s a necessary step to see what their financial aid package looks like and whether or where they can enroll, but this year, the FAFSA process is a mess for students and colleges. A new streamlined form from the U.S. Department of Education came out months late, was difficult or impossible to access, and then was filled with glitches so bad, financial aid offices at colleges can’t even move aid awards along. In Wisconsin, more than 126,000 students filled out the FAFSA last year and were awarded financial aid. For a look inside the mess happening this year, we turn to Katie Weisenburger, assistant director of federal awards of the UW-Madison Office of Student Financial Aid. Thanks very much for being here.

Katie Weisenburger:
Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
Quite the setup. I can’t even believe you have time to be here, because I understand that people like yourselves are working nights and weekends just trying to deal with this. What is happening in your office?

Katie Weisenburger:
Absolutely. Things are changing every day. So we are often on phone calls first thing in the morning, last thing at night, sending messages to each other, making decisions based on the current information. This week, for example, we have been on webinars every day with federal student aid, trying to understand what’s happening and what we can and cannot do.

Frederica Freyberg:
So how delayed are financial aid awards this year?

Katie Weisenburger:
They’re extremely delayed. For an example, at UW-Madison, we typically have aid offers out for our new students in January, and it’s April and we’re — we are getting closer but we’re not quite there yet.

Frederica Freyberg:
How many UW-Madison applicants are affected?

Katie Weisenburger:
All of our UW-Madison applicants are affected, or I should clarify, anybody who is applying for financial aid.

Frederica Freyberg:
Are there concerns that students will end up not attending because of this?

Katie Weisenburger:
Certainly, there are concerns. Less at UW-Madison but certainly across the state and across the country.

Frederica Freyberg:
What are some examples of the problems that people are experiencing with this FAFSA form?

Katie Weisenburger:
There have been a lot of technical issues. At the beginning, there were some students and families who couldn’t complete the application at all. Most of those technical issues have been resolved, but the biggest issue right now is that people just don’t know what they’re going to receive for financial aid. So it’s really hard to make those decisions about where they’re going to go to school, what they’re going to study without having all of the information. Typically, we are receiving FAFSA records in October and we just started to receive them and we have just been told that at least 20% may not be accurate. So now we’re going to have to wait for the Department of Education to reprocess those FAFSA records so we can have accurate information.

Frederica Freyberg:
So has your office, then, been inundated with concerned students and families?

Katie Weisenburger:
Yes. Yes, we have. And unfortunately, there’s just not a lot we can say because we don’t necessarily know what is happening and when it’s going to happen. Families have been absolutely patient and understanding, but it’s very stressful, particularly for those families that have — this is maybe their first time applying for financial aid, seniors in high school trying to make that big decision about where they’re going to attend college.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what is your guidance, then, to families and students in the midst of this?

Katie Weisenburger:
Our guidance is please be patient. Please be kind. But mostly, check your emails, particularly the student’s email. So parents often check their emails, but we want the student to check their emails because if there’s something that we need, we will email that student directly. So that’s the number one thing, is to pay attention to those emails and those communications.

Frederica Freyberg:
So how is the admissions office dealing with all of this? Because that’s the upstream problem. Right?

Katie Weisenburger:
Sure, yes, yeah. Our admissions team has been very supportive of our financial aid office, and the biggest thing that they have done is they have moved the decision date from May 1st to May 15th, and a lot of other schools have done that across Wisconsin and across the country. That’s the biggest impact that we’ve done for our students here.

Frederica Freyberg:
I did notice online that you have in-person sessions this month to help students with FAFSA.

Katie Weisenburger:
Yes.

Frederica Freyberg:
One of them happened today.

Katie Weisenburger:
Yeah.

Frederica Freyberg:
In your tenure as a financial aid officer, how extraordinary is this year?

Katie Weisenburger:
This is the craziest year I’ve ever seen in my 23 years in financial aid in higher education. This is a generational change and I think in the long run, a year from now, this is going to be wonderful because more people will have access to the federal Pell grant. It’s an easier application, just but right now the process of implementing it has been a nightmare.

Frederica Freyberg:
To put it frankly.

Katie Weisenburger:
To put it frankly.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Well, Katie Weisenburger, thanks very much.

Katie Weisenburger:
Thank you so much.

Frederica Freyberg:
In consumer news related to healthcare, people who signed up for marketplace affordable healthcare act plans should be aware of unscrupulous insurance brokers who could do a bait and switch. Some of these web brokers are switching people’s existing plans without their knowledge and pocketing excess premiums according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. In Wisconsin, more than 250,000 people are on ACA plans through the federal marketplace. Caroline Gomez-Tom is an ACA enrollment network and accessibility manager for Covering Wisconsin. She joins us now and thanks very much for being here.

Caroline Gomez-Tom:
Thanks for having me, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you know how many people in Wisconsin might be victims of these web insurance brokers?

Caroline Gomez-Tom:
We’re still kind of understanding and trying to figure out the volume of folks that are impacted by this. We were brought aware of this based on some of our navigators who have seen individuals come to us because they were dually enrolled in Medicaid or the marketplace or we’re hearing it also from other states where they’re getting a lot more malicious predators, essentially, who are trying to target specific communities, but we’re definitely seeing more come up week after week.

Frederica Freyberg:
What are some examples you’ve seen in terms of unsuitable policies because of coverage or cost?

Caroline Gomez-Tom:
What it typically looks like is someone is actually still eligible or enrolled in Medicaid, which is the state’s program for lower income folks, and either they are up for renewal soon or they do need to renew and someone either reaches out to them proactively, somehow getting their contact information and there’s a way if someone just put health insurance in a Google search and went to a bad website. They could have accidentally got on this list of numbers that people will call. Otherwise, it’s actually someone that maybe they reached out, too, but they’re out of state and they’re now getting signed up for a marketplace plan, usually a zero-dollar a month plan, but because they actually should still be on Medicaid, are now dually enrolled in both of these programs. And it’s not until either they’re actually trying to seek healthcare or tax time when now the IRS is saying they have to reconcile tax credits that they never knew they had, they’re trying to figure out what went wrong.

Frederica Freyberg:
So I understand that many of these brokers doing this are out of state.

Caroline Gomez-Tom:
We haven’t seen any bad actors that are from Wisconsin, so I want to lead with that. And we actually do a really good job of working with our agent and broker community here in Wisconsin. We train with them, we partner with them, and we actually have quite a lengthy screener before we even include them in how we advertise for enrollment assistance.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what can people do to protect themselves from this?

Caroline Gomez-Tom:
So, of course, knowing the website that you’re putting in regarding seeking enrollment for health insurance, making sure that it has a “dot gov” ending. If you’re enrolling in Medicaid, it’s access.wi.gov. If you’re enrolling in the health insurance marketplace, it’s healthcare.gov. And then if you’re seeking assistance and you’re talking to someone on the phone or someone reaches out to you, don’t hesitate to ask questions, because if there’s any red flags, you should just stop the conversation and say, I will call someone if I need additional help and just end it there. But asking questions like what’s your license number? Who are you — who do you work for? What is your affiliation with the Office of the Commissioner of Insurance or Covering Wisconsin or the health insurance marketplace? Any person who is legitimately trying to help you can easily answer any of those questions and usually automatically goes through a consent process. We always just encourage folks even to call us directly from the get-go, because even if it’s just a question to make sure they’re at the right spot, like we’d rather them do that than be unsure and then find out the hard way.

Frederica Freyberg:
Yeah. Thank you for that important information for what people should look for. Caroline Gomez-Tom, thanks so much.

Caroline Gomez-Tom:
Thank you so much.

Frederica Freyberg:
Heading up north, the story and history of oppression and resistance of a native tribe along Lake Superior is told in a new documentary called “Bad River.” The film travels centuries back in time chronicling broken treaties, land loss and attempts to wipe out their identity. But defiance and resiliency remain the common thread to overcoming struggle. Today, the Bad River Band is fighting the presence of a 70-year-old oil pipeline from the Canadian Enbridge company. The pipeline, referred to as Line 5, is on land leased by the band in a legal agreement long expired. Moreover, experts fear the imminent rupture of the aging infrastructure.

Kevin Maillard:
We have a corporation that wants the land for their own profit. They are saying you cannot be the last authority of denial for us. This is the corporation telling the tribe, I would like to see your manager.

Tom Garcia:
It’s outrageous that Enbridge continued to pump.

Mike Fernandez:
You have a vital resource and effectively you have a tribal community saying we want to shut all of that down and we don’t care about the millions of people that are dependent on 540,000 barrels of oil that are going through that pipeline on a daily basis.

Patty Loew:
My little tribe is standing up and saying, we’re protecting the water, not just for us, we’re protecting water for the planet.

Frederica Freyberg:
Filmmaker Mary Mazzio and former chairman of the Bad River Band Mike Wiggins, Jr. joins us now. Thanks so much for being here both of you.

Mary Mazzio:
Thank you for having us.

Mike Wiggins, Jr.:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
First to you, Mike. When you first saw this film, what was your reaction?

Mike Wiggins, Jr.:
My first reaction was actually I had a very powerful emotional reaction. The chronicling of the Bad River history, some of it not being the easiest to listen to and watch, culminating with the expression of values as it pertains to the seventh generation, our children that are still on the way and also our landscapes and our waters. It just was very, very powerful kind of reaction for me was basically tears.

Frederica Freyberg:
What is your response to Enbridge saying that the tribe doesn’t care about the people who depend on the 540,000 gallons of oil going through that pipeline every day?

Mike Wiggins, Jr.:
Well, that’s a characterization from a corporation, a private corporation being operated for profit and obviously the rest of that story is we have our set of values and our concerns that center around drinking water aquifers, the ability for our people to stay in our forever home now and into the future, and so I really think it’s part of the low brow book of tactics that Enbridge has unleashed on our people trying to characterize us in a negative way when really there are options. There are other pipelines that are running to those particular people and areas and at the end of the day, that Enbridge spokesperson is really talking about his very own corporate profit.

Frederica Freyberg:
Mary, why was this film important for you to make?

Mary Mazzio:
Thank you for that and thank you for having us, Frederica. I think, you know, this is a story that has not heretofore had very much attention and it’s about this small native community that, with monumental effort, is looking to protect a resource, and as former chairman has said, it’s the freshwater stronghold of America. Here you have this small group of Americans that are fighting tooth and nail to protect the resource, turning down, by the way, $80 million at last check to settle the case and they’re doing it not for themselves. They’re doing it for all of us. And that is a remarkable act of selflessness, of long-term thinking, and for me as a nonnative, what a journey this has been and if only I can start thinking in a more group-oriented way what is better for community, what is better for society, how amazing would that be if more of us could do that.

Frederica Freyberg:
Mike, back to you. A federal judge gave Enbridge three years to remove the pipeline. What are your concerns about that?

Mike Wiggins, Jr.:
Well, the very — the elephant in the corner on notions of removal center around Enbridge’s desire to reroute, staying within the watershed. The reroute is going to be catastrophic. We’ve seen in line 3 in Minnesota the breaching of aquifers and water toxicity. The reroute as it pertains to Bad River is in a really sensitive area of the upper watershed where groundwater and surface water interact. And then there’s the topic that’s never been discussed, which is the decommissioning and the safe removal of the pipe and all of its bedding because the bedding is not very good for the environment, but the decommissioning and removal of that pipe from the reservation is going to be a journey, too, and there’s nobody talking about that yet in terms of impacts and costs.

Frederica Freyberg:
I wanted to ask you, you spoke to the reroute. In an opinion piece in the Journal Sentinel this week, a Bad River tribal member said that some tribal members, he said perhaps many, want that pipeline, that reroute of the pipeline because it represents construction jobs for them. What is your response to that?

Mike Wiggins, Jr.:
Well, that particular opinion piece, I’ve seen the trademark fingerprints of Enbridge’s public relations arm in that letter, but at the end of the day, with that tribal member signing that and taking ownership, I thought the overall letter basically centered around money. It’s centered around self-interest in terms of — there was a piece in there where he said — talked about money going directly to people, and it’s hard to fault folks for their desire to have money in their pocket. This is a broader, nation-building issue that has ripple effects that go decades and probably centuries into the future, so our governing body has continued to take a unified stand against these types of corporate activities in the watershed and part of the Enbridge strategy has been to try to usurp the tribal government, to go directly to people, to push for essentially the takeover and/or thwarting of the tribal governance stance. That letter was per the script.

Frederica Freyberg:
Mary, how has this film been received?

Mary Mazzio:
Well, we opened with AMC Theatres on March 15th in 12 cities. We not only extended but expanded to 25 locations, actually, mostly in Wisconsin, Chicago, Minnesota. We continue to play today in Madison and many other locations. If your viewers go to BadRiverFilm.com, there’s on-line ticketing. What we heard from certain theatres, particularly the Ashland theatre, was that the film had outperformed “Dune,” “Ghostbusters” and “Godzilla,” which is just unheard of for a documentary film. And so I think what we’re seeing is extraordinary reaction to the project, a lot of learning by nonnatives that go in to see the movie and we’re very excited about the journey ahead.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Well, we want to thank you both very much for joining us to talk about this important project. Mary Mazzio and Mike Wiggins, thank you.

Mary Mazzio:
Thank you so much, Frederica.

Mike Wiggins, Jr.:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.