Here & Now

Noon Wednesday with guest Ken Bradbury

Marisa Wojcik:
Welcome to Noon Wednesday, I’m Marisa Wojcik, a multimedia journalist with Here & Now on Wisconsin Public Television, today we are at the Wisconsin Geological and Natural History Survey with its director, Ken Bradbury, and Ken thanks so much for having us here.

Ken Bradbury:
Glad to be here with you.

Marisa Wojcik:
So last fall, your organization released the first round of results of a study that looked at private well contaminants in southwest Wisconsin. This is a pretty big study, and I want to start by asking you, why was this study kind of the first of its kind?

Ken Bradbury:
Well there’s been an interest in groundwater quality and drinking water quality over all of Wisconsin of course for quite a while, but we had not studied southwest Wisconsin in great detail, and there were a lot of concerns from homeowners, and farmers, and environmental groups, and others about what actually was the groundwater quality. There were thoughts that there might be some problems, but there had never been a rigorous scientific study done before, and so that was the motivation for this work.

Marisa Wojcik:
So sampling had been done before but just not on the scale, and the depth and the breadth that you had done for this particular study.

Ken Bradbury:
That’s correct, there certainly had been a lot of sampling done in a fairly random way by different people, different times, different methods, and so we had a pretty good idea of what we might find, but there had never been a rigorous scientific study design that would be statistically based and randomized, and have a uniform protocol being done all in the same few days, that sort of thing, which you really need for scientific rigor to really have some very good scientific conclusions.

Marisa Wojcik:
Mm, and what were the results of that study?

Ken Bradbury:
Well, first of all the study’s not done yet, this was only the first part of several sampling rounds. So the samples that were taken in last November showed that up to 40% of the wells, and we’re talking about private homeowner wells, were in violation of either a nitrate standard, or a bacteria standard, either they contained coliform bacteria, or nitrate over a drinking water standard of 10, meaning that it’s not recommended that that water be consumed, and so this was concerning to many people.

Marisa Wojcik:
And people didn’t know that these contaminants were beyond safe levels?

Ken Bradbury:
Well, some people did, but it wasn’t generally known, and I want to point out that the coliform detections, there’s a little bit of disagreement about what that means, a coliform is a type of bacteria that lives in the soil, and is around in the landscape, and anytime you find that in a well, it suggests that there’s something wrong with the well, but it’s not necessarily meaning that those people are going to be sick.

Marisa Wojcik:
But it’s still concerning.

Ken Bradbury:
It’s a concerning thing yes.

Marisa Wojcik:
So there was quite a bit of response when the first round of results came back. Were you expecting that, did that surprise you?

Ken Bradbury:
We thought there would be some response, but the breadth and magnitude of the response surprised us. In a way it was good, because it’s nice to see our work being used and noticed, and it’s very important that people take an interest in their water supplies, I think that was a real good outcome.

Marisa Wojcik:
But the results as a scientist weren’t surprising to you, you were kind of expecting to find contaminants, but again the level to which this study was extensive allowed you to back that up with numbers.

Ken Bradbury:
Yeah, the reason we weren’t too surprised is the geology in that part of the state is fairly vulnerable for groundwater, you have fractured rock, very thin soils, and that leads to rapid infiltration of water with very little filtration in the subsurface, so it’s not too surprising that we would see problems, and so we suspected that this might be the case, but as you were just saying, this was the first time that we’ve had a very rigorous study to really show that scientifically.

Marisa Wojcik:
And so this was in the three counties kind of in the lower southwest packet, but studies have been done in Kewaunee county, where there have been significant levels of pollution in the groundwater and contaminants in the groundwater, so does that mean that there’s the potential that this is happening in other parts of the state but it just hasn’t been tested at the same rate as these two other areas?

Ken Bradbury:
Yeah that’s right, Kewaunee county was in the news a year or so ago with the same sort of problems, geology in Kewaunee county is similar, they have shallow fractured bedrock, and thin soils, but there are many other parts of the state where we have similar geology, and we might have similar issues, we just have not had the staff and funding and ability to do these sorts of studies everywhere, and so hopefully more of these can be done now.

Marisa Wojcik:
So speaking of staff and funding, you partnered with the county conservationists themselves, right?

Ken Bradbury:
That’s right, now that’s an important thing, this particular study was really motivated by Iowa Grant and Lafayette counties, and the local county conservationists, and local citizens who asked them to get the study like this going, and so the funding has, for the initial part of this work actually came from those counties, and I think it’s really great to have local initiative like this, that then partners with us, partners with our geological survey, with the university, with the US Geological Survey, and others to build a team that we can do this work. So it’s been a great partnership.

Marisa Wojcik:
So part of the public response to the results, and people being somewhat surprised, was Robin Vos, representative Robin Vos started the speaker’s task force on water quality, and they’ve only had a few meetings so far, but they’re really looking at some ambitious things to try and curb what’s happening with water quality in the state, so what has been your involvement with the speaker’s task force on water quality?

Ken Bradbury:
Well we were really glad to see some legislative interest in this, my involvement has been, I was invited to their initial meeting, and I was asked to give a talk about general groundwater facts, and the general groundwater science of Wisconsin, not just southwest but the whole state, to sort of get everybody on the same page, because some legislators know more than others about groundwater and geology. My takeaway from that is that that task force was a very interested and engaged group, they had good questions, and it’s really pleasing to me as a state scientist, and a state employee to see that kind of interest from our legislators.

Marisa Wojcik:
Now you said the last results were only the round one, you have some results that have come back but maybe haven’t been analyzed yet?

Ken Bradbury:
We did another, second sampling just a few weeks ago, in March, those samples are at the lab, which is at UW Steven’s Point right now, we don’t have the results yet, so in the next weeks or months we’ll have additional results to share.

Marisa Wojcik:
Are people really eager to ask you for the solution? There’s this task force, they’re looking for answers, they’re looking for solutions, are you able to give them recommendations at this point?

Ken Bradbury:
We are not doing that right now, and one of the things to point out is we are not assigning blame or pointing fingers or any of those things at this point. That’s perhaps down the line where we’ll come up with suggested solutions or conclusions, we’re just in the middle of a study now, and so it’s premature to be reaching conclusions or making recommendations. Other than it’s good to sample your water, and one of the messages I’d like people to hear is if you have a rural well, or a private well, you’re really in charge of that well. The homeowner is the only person or family that is really responsible for sampling that and knowing it’s water quality. I think a lot of people take it for granted that their water’s going to always be good, and in fact they really need to test to be sure.

Marisa Wojcik:
Mm, so one of the things that people don’t take into account is that the county conservationists are doing a lot of this boots on the ground kind of work, and some testimony to this task force, someone mentioned that these county conservationists are underfunded, they’re working really hard, and they have a lot of responsibilities, so what are some of their responsibilities, and what is their job versus what is the Department of Natural Resources’ job?

Ken Bradbury:
Well the county conservationists are, again, located in the county, they are funded by the counties, and I think they get a little money from the state, but they are charged with really, oversight and even enforcement of a lot of the rules that the DNR puts down, for things like manure disposal, and confined animal feeding operations, or CAFOs, siting of agricultural operations, cropping patterns, land use decisions, a lot of those local decisions come down to advice and help from these county conservationists. And so they have a really big important task. When you bring in water quality, that’s one more thing on their plate, these offices are small, they only have a few employees, and they’re covering a big area, and so yeah, they have a big task, and they are really an important link, a local link between the state and the DNR and local people in the counties, because they’re the local contacts.

Marisa Wojcik:
There’s kind of some liaison work there.

Ken Bradbury:
That’s exactly right, yeah.

Marisa Wojcik:
So even with scientifically founded results, are you concerned that they’ll still be manipulated by rhetoric and by politics, and that your work will get lost in some of that debate?

Ken Bradbury:
Well I guess that’s always a concern, but I think with something like water quality, it’s hard for people to be against good water, and I think that with particularly like, interviews like we’re doing now, and publicity, people understand that water quality, it’s in everybody’s interest, it’s in everybody’s responsibility, it’s important for people, for health for the economy, and so I’m very hopeful that some positive change will come out of this.

Marisa Wojcik:
Well Ken, thank you so much, and we’ll look forward to seeing some of those results in the near future.

Ken Bradbury:
Okay, I look forward to sharing them with you.

Marisa Wojcik:
For more from Here & Now, and Wisconsin Public Television, you can visit WPT.org, and thank you so much for joining us on Noon Wednesday.