US Sen. Ron Johnson on the Start of a New Trump Presidency

Frederica Freyberg:
President Donald Trump and his administration have moved fast, signing a flurry of executive orders starting day one. They include everything from a tough clamp down on immigration, energy policy, DEI and the federal workforce. Attorneys general from 22 states, including Wisconsin, have sued to block Trump’s executive order that moves to end a century-old immigration policy known as birthright citizenship, guaranteeing that U.S.-born children are citizens, regardless of their parents’ status. Wisconsin Republican U.S. Senator Ron Johnson is here, on this, the first week of the Trump presidency. And, Senator, thanks very much for being here.

Ron Johnson:
Well, Frederica, thanks for having me on.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what is your overall reaction to week one of President Trump and his administration?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I’m happy to see him move fast, honoring the promises he made during the campaign. You know, from my standpoint, I’m focusing on reducing spending to some reasonable pre-pandemic level. It’s gotten completely out of hand. In 2014, or 2019, we spent $4.4 trillion then we had the pandemic, spent almost 6.6. But, you know, a normal, a family would, if they had medical bills, let’s say, had to borrow $50,000 for a medical bill, the next year, if their family member got well, they wouldn’t keep borrowing $50,000 and spending at that level. But that, in effect, is what we’ve done in the federal government. We’ve averaged $6.5 trillion over the last five years last year, we spent 6.9. So, it’s unjustified. It’s unsustainable. It’s really absurd. And we need to return to some level of pre-pandemic spending, and that’s really what I’m working on right now.

Frederica Freyberg:
What’s your reaction to President Trump’s pardon of January 6th defendants, including 11 people from Wisconsin?

Ron Johnson:
Well, first of all, I think there was a grotesque miscarriage of justice throughout the Biden administration really, a lawless administration. But as it relates to January 6th, I think so many of these people were persecuted, weren’t offered speedy trials. So there were many harms that need to be rectified there. Personally, I probably would’ve done it in different stages, been a little more selective, but I think in the end, President Trump apparently just decided pardon ’em all. And I, truthfully, don’t have, you know, any problem with that. I don’t think anybody is really a true danger to society.

Frederica Freyberg:
How do those pardons, though, square with respect for police, many of whom were beaten or tased or repelled with pepper or bear spray?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I think most of those people engaged in acts of violence did serve jail time. You take a look at, again, you just need to compare the jail time they spent versus, for example, the jail time murderers and rapists spend in New York. So, again, I think you have to weigh it all. I think President Trump, you know, I would’ve been a little more selective, done it in different batches, but he decided just to pardon them all. And, honestly, I don’t have much problem with it.

Frederica Freyberg:
Just one more question on this, and that is just this week, you introduced a bill called the Thin Blue Line Act that would increase penalties for targeting law enforcement. How do the pardons and that introduction of that bill square?

Ron Johnson:
Again, the miscarriage of justice in terms of the January 6th defendants, I think, had to be rectified, and that’s what President Trump did.

Frederica Freyberg:
What’s your response to former President Biden’s preemptive pardons for January 6th committee members, members of his family and Anthony Fauci?

Ron Johnson:
I think it sets a very dangerous precedent for a president to potentially direct members of his administration to commit crimes with a guarantee of a pardon afterwards. I think it’s a very dangerous precedent. It’s a double-edged sword for those that are going to obtain those pardons, though, because now they have no Fifth Amendment protections. If we decide to call them in front of Congress to testify, they’d have to testify fully and truthfully.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you expect to do that?

Ron Johnson:
Well, some of them, I think, almost certainly.

Frederica Freyberg:
Like who?

Ron Johnson:
We’ll see what documentation we get and who we have justification for calling in to testify

Frederica Freyberg:
On immigration, how do you expect President Trump’s orders to play out? What will we see at the border, in our cities, and on our farms?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I think you’ll see a secure border. I think you’ll see an immediate return to the “Remain in Mexico” policy. You’ll see deportations, you know, focusing primarily on criminals and people who are a real danger to society. And that’s what President Trump ran on. It’s what a large majority of the American public supports. And he’s moving swiftly on that promise as well.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you think that the president’s call to end birthright citizenship will survive legal challenges, as it’s written into the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution?

Ron Johnson:
I certainly support his attempt to get this adjudicated. I think it’s, you know, quite honestly, an absurd policy. We’re one of very, very few nations that allow that. I think it had its, you know, justification at one point in time, and I understand why the Fourteenth Amendment was passed, but it really should not be applying to the current circumstance right now. And I think it really incentivizes people. I mean, there’s birthing tourism, there’s all kinds of abuse as a result of that. I think we need to end that.

Frederica Freyberg:
What do you say to insulin-dependent people who may now see their cost rise above the $35 a month cap with a Trump order rescinding a Biden order on lowering prescription drug costs?

Ron Johnson:
I don’t think that’ll happen.

Frederica Freyberg:
The fact that drug costs would go up as a result of that?

Ron Johnson:
I mean, people still be able to gain insulin at those types of pricing.

Frederica Freyberg:
And so what do you think about the rescinding of the order that was designed to lower prescription drug costs?

Ron Johnson:
Again, I don’t really like government price controls on things, so let see how this thing plays out. I mean, drug pricing is a highly complex issue. When government involves itself in the marketplace, it generally screws it up. One of the problems we have right now with our health care system was we have a completely broken health care financing system, largely driven by government’s intervention into it. So, from my standpoint, we need to bring more consumerism, more free market disciplines into our health care system. That includes drugs, that includes hospital care, that includes what we pay for doctors as well. So government intervention, third-party payer systems have, by and large, removed the benefits of free market competition in that discipline. We need to bring those benefits back.

Frederica Freyberg:
You’ve spoken critically in recent years about the security risks of the China-owned TikTok, and the Supreme Court upheld the ban. Now President Trump has put on hold that ban. Where do you stand now on TikTok?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I voted against the Ukraine funding bill, where that ban was slipped in. Yeah, I actually have sympathy with both sides of the argument here, which means I’m somewhat ambivalent in terms of how it all plays out. I’m not a big user of TikTok. I know a lot of people are. I understand the freedom of speech aspect of this, but I also understand, you know, how China’s using it. So I’ll let the courts decide, I’ll let this process play out. We have so many other challenges facing this nation. It’s just not one of the big ones on my radar screen.

Frederica Freyberg:
Will you vote to confirm Pete Hegseth and RFK Jr.? And if so-

Ron Johnson:
Yes.

Frederica Freyberg:
Why?

Ron Johnson:
Because the president won a very convincing victory. You know, elections matter. I think the president gets to decide who he wants serving alongside him in his administration. And, you know, barring some disqualifying factor, which I don’t see in any of his nominees so far, I’m going to vote to confirm.

Frederica Freyberg:
In your mind, what other kind of out of the chutes actions on the part of President Trump stand out as most important to you?

Ron Johnson:
Well, I do appreciate the fact that he’s now defining for America, for government policy, that there are two genders, you know, men and women. He’s moving to protect women from having to compete against male athletes, from having biological males invade their locker rooms and other private spaces, their bathrooms. So I certainly appreciate that. That’s something that I think is also very popular. That’s what the American people support. But, again, across the board, securing our border, that’s incredibly important. Tapping in and using our God-given energy resources, extremely important from the standpoint of national security, as well as keeping costs down. So across the board, what President Trump is doing, we’ll see the effect of this what we’re going to have to do in terms of legislation to codify these things, but I’m very pleased with how quickly President Trump is honoring the promises he made during the campaign.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right, Senator Ron Johnson. Thanks very much.

Ron Johnson:
Have a great day.