Rep. Joel Kitchens on Bill Requiring Phonics Reading Method

Frederica Freyberg:
School is not yet out for summer, but starting next fall, the new Wisconsin law mandating how children must be taught to read goes into effect. The law requires teaching phonics or the relationships between sounds and words instead of the current method widely in use, called three cueing, which uses such things as pictures to solve unknown words. This comes as the latest statewide third grade reading test scores show fewer than 40% of students are proficient readers. The reading law is in place, but the Legislature is suing over the governor’s veto of how $50 million to help fund the change can be used. We sat down with one of the authors of the reading bill, Representative Joel Kitchens, as his signature legislation is now in the courts. I know that you have said that this reading bill was the most important thing that you have worked on in the Capitol. What’s your reaction, then, to the governor’s veto and the lawsuit over it as Act 20 is really already being enacted?

Joel Kitchens:
Yeah, it’s frustrating. You know, it’s sort of politics, you know. What the governor did actually with the veto was not that horrible. It’s just the precedent of that of him being able to go in and use a partial line-item veto where traditionally he has not been able to use it. And our lawyers, when they drafted the bill, said he does not have that authority. So it would set a dangerous precedent. And it’s sort of — it’s similar to the PFAS problems that we’re having with that bill where the governor seems to think that he can change, you know, how the, how the money is spent. And that’s just going to be a problem.

Frederica Freyberg:
But meanwhile, it kind of catches this whole piece of policy…

Joel Kitchens:
Right.

Frederica Freyberg:
…in the midst of that veto and the lawsuit now.

Joel Kitchens:
Right. So it’s — unfortunately my bill ends up sort of being a test case on this. That’s really unfortunate. So hopefully it doesn’t slow it down too much. I know there are portions of it and I’ve been in touch with DPI about it. I think, you know, as far as the testing and the assessments, they’ll have the money for that. But hiring the coaches statewide, certainly they do not have that money. So until this lawsuit is settled, that won’t happen. You know, we are encouraging the schools as far as getting the training for the teachers, buying new curriculum, go ahead and do all that. You know, we will have the money there. It’s just, it’s just the lawsuit has to play out.

Frederica Freyberg:
So the governor’s veto message also spoke to the idea that he wanted to give DPI the flexibility of where to put this money. Do you take exception to that?

Joel Kitchens:
You know, again, I don’t so much as because I think we’re on the same page on it. It’s really, really unfortunate with this. And again, some other bills that he didn’t just talk to us. You know, because I think we can work out the details of this. It’s just that when you do that in an area that’s never — where that’s never been allowed before, it’s a problem. And I know when he first did that, you know, I talked to the members of JFC and they were back and forth. Well, you know, should we challenge this? But I think they decided that, yeah. The precedent, it’s too strong to ignore that and let him do that because then it’ll continue to escalate from there.

Frederica Freyberg:
Is there anything to the idea that Republicans might have been concerned because he vetoed a part of the appropriation that would have given per pupil increases to private choice schools and independent charter schools?

Joel Kitchens:
You know, I haven’t heard that be part of the concern with it. You know, what I’m hearing from JFC is just that it’s the precedent of it. And, yeah, there’s a lot of distrust of DPI, but I think, you know, again, the substance of what that partial line-item veto did is not the big deal. It’s just the precedent.

Frederica Freyberg:
As we’ve said meanwhile, this Act 20 is going into effect in the fall.

Joel Kitchens:
Right.

Frederica Freyberg:
Have you heard from educators about, you know, concerns they might have about being able to be ready to do that?

Joel Kitchens:
Yeah, and we address some of those. There were a lot of concerns so we made the first assessment which would have taken place in September, we made that optional. So they don’t have to do that until later because we were trying to, you know, to speak to their fears. And now with this, of course, everybody’s like, what’s going on? So again, we keep telling people and I think DPI is giving them the same message. Just go ahead, go forward. You know, you’re — the money’s going to be there. And it’s really important that we get this going.

Frederica Freyberg:
In the research that you’ve done around this important issue for you, how soon do you think these kinds of changes will result in more children being able to read at a proficient level?

Joel Kitchens:
Yeah, I expect it to be pretty rapid. I think that in two years, we will see the difference in those kids. And again, this is, you know, kids learning to read, there’s not a more important thing in their whole lives than learn to read. If they don’t learn how to read, their chances of success in school and really in life are so diminished that this is really important. And I was, you know, gratified to hear Speaker Vos when he gave his end of the session wrap up, he said this was the most important thing that we passed this session, too. And I think it really is. And so, you know, we have to get this going. And I think, I think we’ll see progress pretty quickly.

Frederica Freyberg:
Because going back to Wisconsin’s reading test scores, what is that like for you as someone who works on these issues to see that?

Joel Kitchens:
Yeah, it’s pretty awful. And you know, our African American students have fallen from where they used to be, kind of middle of the pack. Now they’re dead last in the country. So we have got to turn that around. It’s just — it should really scare people to think of what that means to the future of these kids. And then you throw the pandemic in on top of it, where some of those kids just — and unfortunately, especially in our big cities, didn’t have any real instruction for a year. Well, you can’t take a year off from school when you’re in first, second, third grade and think you’re going to make up for it later.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right, Representative Kitchens, thanks very much.

Joel Kitchens:
Well, thank you.