Here & Now

U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore on Impeachment Hearings

Zac Schultz:

Our first look tonight is at the impeachment hearings that began this week in Washington. Democrats in the House presented their first witnesses into Donald Trump’s request that the Ukrainian government open up an investigation into Joe Biden in exchange for U.S. military aid. The question for members of Congress is whether those actions qualify as high crimes and misdemeanor and therefore justify impeachment. We begin tonight with Democratic Congresswoman Gwen Moore, who joins us from Washington. Thanks for your time today.

Gwen Moore:

Hi, how are you Zac?

Zac Schultz:

What stood out to you so far in the testimony that we’ve heard?

Gwen Moore:

What has stood out to me most of all, Zac, is the integrity of these State Department officials who have come forward. Their excellent credentials, the fact that they’ve served our country over the course of not only this Republican president, but Democratic presidents in the past. They’re fact witnesses. They’re not there with a so-called dog in the fight, but simply to give the facts.

Zac Schultz:

Yesterday House Speaker Nancy Pelosi started using the term bribery to describe Donald Trump’s actions. Do you agree with that term?

Gwen Moore:

Actually, that word is taken from the Constitution. What our founding fathers were very, very concerned about was bribery. They didn’t have the whole code of — the criminal code that has evolved throughout the centuries since they founded the country. But they were very clear that they were concerned about the abuse of power and bribery of or from a foreign country. I can tell you that the founding fathers anticipated this president.

Zac Schultz:

Now, some of these witnesses have already testified behind closed doors. What’s the importance of having them testify in public?

Gwen Moore:

Well, you know, I’ve learned a great deal through this process. And this was — the behind the closed doors phase was the indictment phase. And when subjects are being indicted, those testimonies are often taken before a grand jury or behind closed doors. And this would be sort of the public part of the indictment. So before the House of Representatives makes the indictment and impeaches — and puts forward articles of impeachment, we want the public to know and see what the reasoning is behind these charges. And I think that the public will have an opportunity to determine for themselves whether or not there was an abuse of power. Whether or not bribery of a foreign country was involved and whether or not the president used the office of the presidency for corrupt purposes.

Zac Schultz:

The votes to impeach in the House and a potential vote to convict in the Senate come with political baggage. How important is shifting public opinion before those votes occur?

Gwen Moore:

I think it’s extremely important to have public sentiment. Public sentiment is everything. But that being said, Zac, we all took an oath of office to support the Constitution of the United States. And it’s our responsibility to move forward with this impeachment inquiry and if the Judiciary Committee determines that there are legitimate articles of impeachment, to move forward and to do our Constitutional duty. I don’t think that we should worry about the political fallout. Will this mean that we will or will not be re-elected, and I think that that is what I find so disappointing, that we are not finding our Republican colleagues stepping up to meet their Constitutional obligations to ask legitimate questions, but predetermining that they don’t want to be on the wrong side of this president. And I think that that is something that in the final analysis may inure to certainly a downgrading of the GOP, the Grand Old Party.

Zac Schultz:

Now, we’ve read a lot of reports about how Republicans in Congress are supporting Trump publicly but are saying different things behind closed doors. What are you hearing? Are you speaking to any of your Republican colleagues?

Gwen Moore:

I actually am. I have made some — I’ve had quiet conversations with Republicans and I have not asked them, you know, what they really thought. I’ve only admonished them to think about their careers beyond Donald Trump. Donald Trump will not always be the president. And for those Republicans that I care for — and there are many that I personally care for — I’m asking them to think about their personal reputations, their own integrity, their conscience, their souls and certainly the oath that they took. And if they can’t stand up and be brave enough to look at the facts — some Republicans have said we’re not going to even look at the facts. If they can’t really look at the facts, they ought to reexamine why they ran for office.

Zac Schultz:

How many members of Congress in either party do you think are still undecided on impeachment and want to hear all the testimony to make up their minds?

Gwen Moore:

You know, I do think that there are many Americans and there are members of Congress who really, really, really do want to hear the facts. And I do think that within the Democratic caucus for sure I know that there are people who really do want to hear the facts. They want to thread that needle. Because it is very consequential what they do. We have so many brave Democrats, particularly the women who have backgrounds in intelligence, backgrounds, again, with the CIA and Special Forces, who are putting themselves at potential election risk to do the right thing. And I admire these women so much because they are standing on principle and not just standing on whether or not this will affect their election outcomes.

Zac Schultz:

All right. Congresswoman Moore, thanks for your time today.

Gwen Moore:

You be well, Zac.

Zac Schultz:

We invited all four Republican Congressmen and Senator Ron Johnson to appear on this show. They either did not reply or declined our offer.