Here & Now

“Tip Of The Iceberg”: A Discussion Of Sexual Assault

Frederica Freyberg:

Day after day, more and more reports of sexual harassment, even sexual assault, are in the news. Is this the tipping point or the tip of the iceberg? We asked Erin Thornley-Parisi, executive director of the Rape Crisis Center in Madison, an expert on these matters. Thank you very much for being here.

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So as to that question, do you believe this is the tipping point or tip of the iceberg?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Both. I think that it is the tip of the iceberg as far as what we’re going to find because women are finally feeling that — empowered to come forward. And their jobs are a little safer because places like CBS are speaking up and being protective of their employees who have been sexually harassed. I think that it’s just going to be kind of an avalanche. But that’s kind of the turning point as well. You know, I like to believe that this is just allowing a lot more people to feel free to get the help that they need.

Frederica Freyberg:

Speaking of that, were you surprised by the “Me too” twitter response?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

I was. Initially I was very surprised. It was kind of this — I was at home and just watching it and it was like a ticker tape. It was just these little hearts popping up and the retweets and it was kind of astonishing. It’s been wonderful really, to see all of these people just coming out and being able to talk, for once, about their experience and have them be believed. That’s the biggest part.

Frederica Freyberg:

How do all of these reports kind of trigger people, though, about things that have happened to them that they might have buried?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Right. It is very triggering for many people. And so, you know, the good part is is that there are help lines like ours. There are these all over the nation. There’s even a national help line. RAINN has one that people can call and talk. And I think that that’s the hard part is that we have a help line. We take about 2500 calls a year, maybe 3,000. That’s really not that many calls. And I always wish that more people would call. And now I'm really hoping this results in more people calling and saying I just need to talk and find out what my options are if I want to pursue this legally.

Frederica Freyberg:

We were talking about that “Me too” hashtag, but for every one that was posted, are there an equal number of people that just aren’t going there yet?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Oh, sure. In general, one out of ten people report sexual assault to anybody. So I'm sure there were dozens behind every hashtag.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why don’t people report?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Because they’re not believed. That’s probably hands-down the most important thing or the most prevalent reason. The first reactions that people often have is disbelief and victim-blaming. And we just say to a woman who says I was — you know, my boyfriend raped me last night or something, we just immediately start trying to excuse his behavior. Well, maybe he was drunk. Well, maybe, you know, and we completely dismiss the effect that that had on her.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is this like for men who would never behave this way?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Well, I think it’s — you know, I have a lot of friends on Facebook and I have people in my life who would never behave this way. And what they are doing is feeling disappointed in other men. They are trying to step up. They are trying to say things now. I think it also gives men the freedom now to say, hey, cut that out. Hey, don’t do that. And they don’t have to be judged for them being wimpy or whatever the term might be.

Frederica Freyberg:

So far, these reports involve kind of Hollywood or political figures or star journalists. But this harassment is certainly not limited to big-name people.

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Oh, heavens no. We all deal with it. I’ve dealt with harassment throughout my career in the different businesses that I've worked in. No. It’s extremely common. And this is — in many ways, it has been a way of life for women. And so this is really important that right now this kind of, you know, mask is being lifted up and everybody is getting to see that this doesn’t just happen to me. It happens to everybody else. And I think that although I'm shocked that people are shocked, you know, men are finally able to see what we’ve been living with our entire lives.

Frederica Freyberg:

You spoke a moment ago about how it kind of gives men the freedom to say, hey, cut it out, that kind of thing. But generally men and women, what should people do in the face of sexual harassment?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

They do need to stop it right there, because sexual harassment is a form of sexual assault. And it is something that is bad in and of itself, but it can also lead to more advanced sexually abusive behavior. So it’s important to just say, you know, you’re not treating her very well. That’s inappropriate. Whatever words feel relevant to the environment that you’re in. You know, which can be very different in a workplace than they can be, for instance, on an athletic field.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about this whole idea that it’s just boys being boys or locker room talk or other kinds of things we’ve heard. So you come forward and say, hey, cut it out, that’s inappropriate, you look like you’re not a team player. You look like you’re on the outside.

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

I think that you may — especially for younger boys, they may feel that’s what it makes them look like, but in all honesty they look like a leader. And that’s just something that they’re going to recognize later in their life, is that the person who does step up and protect somebody, even if the person is not there, they’re just talking about somebody, that person who steps up really is showing leadership skills.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, at the university we were all mandated to take online sexual harassment training. How important or how unimportant are these kinds of online trainings?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

I think they are important in just in that we have to cast a wide net and we really have to cover a lot of ground and talk about this in many different ways. So I would hate to see that go away. I wish that there was more of it.

Frederica Freyberg:

More robust kind of training.

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Yes. Yes.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know obviously in Congress they’re talking about that now.

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Yeah.

Frederica Freyberg:

And how should — briefly, we only have about a half a minute left, but how should that training look?

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

It should look all about humanizing women and about respecting women, so that we’re really tying it all together and saying not only can you not sexually harass women, but you can’t treat women unequally.

Frederica Freyberg:

We expect to continue this conversation in the weeks and months ahead.

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Great.

Frederica Freyberg:

Erin Thornley-Parisi, thanks very much.

Erin Thornley-Parisi:

Thank you.