Here & Now

Realities in Private, Falsehoods in Public

Frederica Freyberg:

“We can’t move forward together when we acknowledge reality in private and then peddle falsehoods in public.” That is a quote from an article published this week by the former chairman of the Brown County Republican Party, who left the party with the 2016 election of Donald Trump. In his article, Mark Becker recounts a phone call he had after this year’s election with Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson. And by Becker’s account, he was horrified by what he heard. He joins us now from Green Bay and thanks a lot for doing so.

Mark Becker:

Thank you very much. It’s an honor to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what did Senator Johnson say to you that you found, as you wrote, unconscionable?

Mark Becker:

Well, it’s just so frustrating to understand that elected officials like Ron Johnson know the truth. They understand what happened. They have a firm grasp on reality when the cameras are off, but then they don’t think that the public deserves to hear that same truth when the cameras are on and when it’s on record. And the damage that’s doing to us, to the fabric of our society, is — like I said, it’s unconscionable. It’s horrible.

Frederica Freyberg:

So he told you that he knows that Joe Biden is the president-elect, but he’s not willing to state that publicly and why did he say he won’t go there publically?

Mark Becker:

Well he said that one of the things going in the 2016 election was Ron was the highest vote getter of any candidate, Republican candidate in the history of the state of Wisconsin. He said, “My goal was to get 1.5 million votes in Wisconsin. And if I thought I got 1.5 million votes, I would win re-election in ’16.” He said, “I didn’t get that. But Donald Trump did.” And so, you know, he didn’t want to tick those voters off and he saw the big swell of people that Donald Trump has been able to get. But he wasn’t willing to rock that boat.

Frederica Freyberg:

In fact, in your article you say that he said to you, “I know Biden won, but it would be political suicide to admit it.”

Mark Becker:

Yes. Yes. That’s exactly right.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what about the silence on the part of other elected Republicans and the stoking of conspiracies? How in your mind do they undermine democracy, as you wrote?

Mark Becker:

Well, it undermines democracy because the sanctity of the vote is the most precious thing that we have in our politics. It’s stoking that. It’s unconscionable. It’s horrible to know that these elected officials value their party over the oath that they took to serve the country. And so, you know, Ron Johnson is not unique in this. I mean, there are Republicans all over the state of Wisconsin and all over the country that instead of telling people the truth, they line up behind the — you know, the one-term president. So it’s horrible.

Frederica Freyberg:

You write that in fact, though, that Johnson was unconcerned about all of that. How so?

Mark Becker:

Well, he said that the biggest thing was, you know, the pillars of our democracy are strong enough to withstand this. And, I mean, I get it. The pillars of our democracy are very strong and we are very lucky for them. But Ron Johnson is part of that pillar of our democracy, the United States Senate, the House, Congress. That is one of the pillars of our democracy. And it’s up to them to be able to stand up to a bully when they need to be stood up to and they’re failing in that miserably.

Frederica Freyberg:

So Senator Johnson declined to be on this program, but he sent this statement. He said, “I have been very consistent in both public and private statements that I believe there are way too many irregularities and suspect issues that need to be fully investigated and publicly vetted before a final result is determined and a peaceful transition of power takes place. The article,” the one that you wrote, he says, “should be viewed as the political hit piece it is and simply ignored.” So what is your response to his statement?

Mark Becker:

You know, I wish he would tell me — I wish he would tell the public what he told me in person. Yes, he was consistent about he thinks there’s irregularities, but he also said that he understands that it wasn’t enough to overturn the result of this vote. He said the same thing that William Barr, Donald Trump’s own attorney general said. So, I mean, you know, if he thinks that this should be ignored, that’s fine, you can ignore it, but why don’t you ignore the people in the Trump administration that are saying the same thing? If you want to ignore my piece, that’s fine, but why don’t we pay attention to the Republican election officials in battleground states that are saying that this vote was secure, it was over and Joe Biden won, full stop. So I wish Ron would say that.

Frederica Freyberg:

Just very briefly, what kind of reaction have you been getting from your article?

Mark Becker:

I mean, it’s been positive. I’ve been encouraged by some of the people that I know that are Republican operatives and Republican office holders who have sent me messages and said, you know, good job, thank you, because, I mean, this is a turning point and this is a deciding point for the Republican Party on where do they want to go now. You know, they lost the presidency and it’s up to them in these conversations in these very pivotal moments to figure out what the future is going to look like for their party. And right now they’re not doing the right thing.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Mark Becker, we need to leave it there. Thanks very much and thank you for joining us.

Mark Becker:

Thank you so much.