Here & Now

Nygren and Johnson Weigh In on Transportation & Healthcare

Frederica Freyberg:
A first look tonight at state budget action at the Capitol, where late in the week, the Joint Finance Committee took up transportation funding. Days earlier, Republicans on the budget committee passed their version of the Medicaid spending plan. Under that plan, Republicans would add $588 million in state funds for the healthcare and other related programs. About $187 million less than what Governor Tony Evers called for. It would increase state funding to hospitals that serve low income Wisconsinites by $60 million, increase nursing home funding by $30 million, funding for personal care workers by $37 million, and funding to counties for children and families by a little more than $30 million. Now the divide between Republicans and Democrats focuses on expanding Medicaid to more than 80,000 low income people in Wisconsin as Governor Tony Evers had proposed in his budget plan.

Chris Taylor:
The governor is committed to a budget for the people. That is his top priority, that is our top priority. We will not stop fighting for Medicaid expansion for the people of this state. But it looks like my Republican colleagues rather spend more money and cover less people.

Alberta Darling:
The governor will say it’s the people’s budget but I will say this is a budget that we really listen to the people and they told us we need to save our nursing homes. We need to invest in our personal care workers and we need to make those priority investments.

Frederica Freyberg:
The Legislature’s budget writing committee took up transportation funding last night, where the committee voted in favor of $484 million in new funding, including a $10 hike in the vehicle registration fee, bringing that to $85 a year, and a $95 increase in the vehicle title fee, bringing that cost to $164.50. The committee also voted to spend $2.5 million for a study on tolling. Governor Evers had proposed an 8-cent a gallon gas tax and a heavy truck fee to raise about $200 million more than the plan passed out of Joint Finance last night. The gas tax and the truck fee were rejected.

Evan Goyke:
Right now we’re on a Democratic plan which is responsible, sustainable. We’re going to debate a Republican plan that relies more heavily on fees and one-time, non-long term solutions.

Luther Olsen:
Cars are more efficient so they’re not burning as much gas. So they’re not paying as much gas tax. So we thought we would help you not be the problem. We are raising your license fee and your transfer fee because we know you want to be part of the solution.

Frederica Freyberg:
Following this week’s action, the Republican co-chair of the Legislature’s budget writing committee was able to meet with us at the capitol. We sat down with Representative John Nygren at his office and started by asking about the Republican transportation budget. All right. First of all, thanks very much for doing this.

John Nygren:
Welcome.

Frederica Freyberg:
On the transportation budget, those title fees, ouch. What do you say to people of Wisconsin about that?

John Nygren:
Well, it’s a $95 increase but the average person in Wisconsin has a new car for an average of six years, and that actually averages out between $15 and $16 a year. Actually the gas tax increase as proposed would be well over that. In many cases more than double that. And the other thing that, you know, I think from our perspective, the built-in indexing of a gas tax, you know, I wasn’t here when they removed indexing of gas tax, but I guess my perspective is, if you’re elected to lead and make tough decisions and fund our priorities such as transportation, you should actually have to stand up and say yea or nay rather than having it automatically built in moving forward so we think this is a fair way.

Frederica Freyberg:
What about the argument that a gas tax hits every driver on the roads whereas these fee increases hit just Wisconsin residents?

John Nygren:
You know, I think that’s a fair argument. One of the things — the way we look at this proposal is more of a bridge to a future opportunity for us. The study which had been ridiculed as having another study on this, but actually what the study says is we’re actually asking for the Department of Transportation to develop a mileage-based system. That could be vehicle miles traveled, that could be tolling, that could be a number of different things to get to a point where — I’ve got an I-pass for Illinois, so when I use those roads in Illinois, I’m paying. So I think long term, our objective is to get to more of a mileage-based system.

Frederica Freyberg:
That is pretty long term, though, right, because any kind of study is just the beginning and then that process of potentially, you know, doing tolling would take years, wouldn’t it?

John Nygren:
Well, first of all, the study we’re asking for I think by 2023 for them to come back with a recommendation. If we actually go to tolling or, like I said, vehicle miles traveled, which many states are doing, this is not the old system where you’re building toll booths, et cetera. If it’s vehicle miles traveled, it doesn’t even need anything like that. Tolling doesn’t need that now days, with transponders and other technology, it can actually be implemented much quicker than people think.

Frederica Freyberg:
Aren’t increases in fees taxes by another name?

John Nygren:
You know, it’s semantics to a certain extent. We look at it whether it be a gas tax or whether it be a fee, it’s a user fee to use the roads. And one of the things we’ve heard loud and clear over the years, we’ve been working on this — I’ve been working on this for eight years to try to get a solution, Democrats have been supportive of a transportation solution as well, locals, you know, communities throughout the state, citizens, we’ve heard their voices so we think we’re heading in the right direction. We’re investing in the priorities of the people of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
One thing I saw was that you cut annual fees on heavy vehicles, whereas the governor’s budget hiked them.

John Nygren:
Actually it’s not heavy. The governor proposed a fee on heavy trucks.

Frederica Freyberg:
Yes.

John Nygren:
We actually had one of the high — meaning semis. We actually have, I think I asked Fiscal Bureau this question — if not the highest in the nation, definitely the highest in the Midwest, and actually for semis. The interesting thing about semis — I travel throughout the country — you actually can register those in different states. So if you significantly increase a fee, you’re basically losing those revenues to another state. The confusion you’re talking about is we have three different classifications of what I would call “middle of the road trucks”: pickup trucks, SUVs, et cetera. I actually have one. If there’s a, b and c, and we actually just shrunk those into one class, because there’s been a lot of confusion about registration of those vehicles.

Frederica Freyberg:
Some Senate Republicans are voicing opposition as you know to this transportation package. Will this pass in the Senate?

John Nygren:
You know, I worry about the 63 Republican members in the Assembly. Senator Fitzgerald takes care of the Senate. I do believe that — I think when we look at the budget as a total package, we’ve invested in our priorities. We’re definitely going to be way less than Governor Evers in spending. He was at 8.3%. He was raising taxes both on property and income. We’re actually going to be looking to do a middle class tax cut again. So at the end of the day, I think we’ll have support to be able to pass this in both houses.

Frederica Freyberg:
On Medicaid, the other big kind of budget action this week, why are you exposed to the expansion that saves some $300 million in state money and brings in more than a billion dollars in federal money?

John Nygren:
First of all, there’s no such thing as free money. Whether it’s — if it’s federal money or state tax money, it’s actually taxpayer money, but where we are as a state, our economy is doing very well. Actually our biggest weakness in the state is probably a shortage of workers. At a time like this, there’s no need to expand welfare. That’s what this program is, you know, between 100 and 138% of poverty. Those folks already have access. Governor Evers has said its 82,000. It’s 82,000, half of them already have coverage on the exchange for as low as pennies on the dollar. The other half are eligible. So we did provide resources to be able to connect people to that exchange, help them get insurance, but we also use the surplus out of the Medicaid budget to reinvest in the things we’ve heard about the most, nursing homes closing throughout the state, personal care workers, family care. We actually in all those cases outdid Governor Evers’ investments with the surplus.

Frederica Freyberg:
Governor Evers says this should be the easiest decision in the budget, that being expanding Medicaid, and he continues to fight for it. What do you say to him?

John Nygren:
He often times touts polls, right. The Marquette Poll, 70%. Actually Senate Republicans actually asked all of our constituents the same question but we asked it a little bit differently. We asked about expanding welfare. Some people cringe at that, but Medicaid was designed as a welfare program for the impoverished, and at 100% of poverty, that’s what it is. So we asked that question. My overwhelmingly — the overwhelming results were about 80% were in favor — er, against expansion.

Frederica Freyberg:
What are your veto concerns, if any?

John Nygren:
We’ve been very careful. We’ve been very careful about any type of statutory language that we put in, into the budget because of those concerns. A new world for us. Governor Evers, I guess, has threatened to veto the budget in its totality but when you look at we’re funding our priorities for Medicaid for those that have a hard time taking care of themselves. We actually provide another sizable increase for K-12 education. We’re solving the transportation problem throughout our state. When we look at it in totality, I think he’s going to have a hard time saying no.

Frederica Freyberg:
John Nygren, thanks very much.

John Nygren:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
Votes on the budget committee fall mostly along party lines with the exception of one Republican senator voting last night against the transportation budget plan. Democrats hold the minority on Joint Finance. That’s not to say they aren’t fighting for the governor’s budget proposals. Milwaukee Democrat Senator LaTonya Johnson among them. She joins us now from Milwaukee. Thanks very much for being here.

LaTonya Johnson:
Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
On the transportation budget comings out of Joint Finance, what is your response of the 137% hike in vehicle titling fees making it $164.50?

LaTonya Johnson:
It’s unfortunate, and it’s unfair. You know, making sure that we have good roads is a priority, but just taxing Wisconsinites for those roads is extremely unfair. The governor’s 8 cents gas tax would spread those costs proportionately, not only to individuals in Wisconsin but also those individuals who live out of state but continue to use our roads. And it makes it proportionate. If you do more driving, you’ll pay more for gas. If you don’t drive as much, then the cost isn’t as much for you.

Frederica Freyberg:
Now Co-chair Nygren points out that the titling fee is not an annual one so it gets spread out and only accrues when someone purchases a vehicle, whereas the gas tax would hit the consumer every time they fill up. Does that soften that increase?

LaTonya Johnson:
No, it doesn’t, because regardless of the cost of the car, regardless if you bought a $1,500 car or a $65,000 car, the title transfer and cost is still the same, $164.50. And for those individuals who are living on a fixed income or maybe low income, that hurts. That’s a significant rise in cost.

Frederica Freyberg:
We want to just point out and apologize here, there’s a little bit of breakup on our shot to you there in Milwaukee, but we will proceed. Do Democrats feel the transportation package from the majority will allow for reliable funding needed to fix and maintain our roads and highways?

LaTonya Johnson:
No, it’s not sustainable funding. Governor Evers’ transportation budget was sustainable, and this is not. And evidence of that is that they have a mileage study that’s written into budget with $2.5 million set aside for study so they can find more reliable sources. And so I think that that’s unfair to increase those title fees that significantly and still not have a sustainable source.

Frederica Freyberg:
As for that study, do Democrats approve or like the idea of tolling?

LaTonya Johnson:
The problem with the tolling is that we need money right now. Even if we were to look into the tolling process, that would be at least five years down the road. We would have to get federal permission to install the tolls, and so as far as having a state-wide toll source, that would be a significant problem as well.

Frederica Freyberg:
On the Medicaid programs, the action on the part of Republicans on Joint Finance, it’s not new that they were dead set against the expansion of Medicaid but how do you regard their plan to put $588 million of GPR into the Medicaid program?

LaTonya Johnson:
I think it’s unfortunate because expanding Medicaid brings $1.6 billion, new dollars, into the state, and it saves the state $324 million. This is money that our taxpayers have already paid in federal taxes, and 36 states have decided to expand Medicaid.

Frederica Freyberg:
Now I know that Democrats say statewide polls show 70% of respondents favor expanding Medicaid, but the Republican co-chair says that when asked if they want to expand welfare, 80% in his district of the respondents said no. How do you respond to that?

LaTonya Johnson:
Well, it’s unfortunate because the way that BadgerCare is set up, if you are a single individual with one child and you earn $8.15 an hour, that makes you ineligible for BadgerCare. So we are talking about people who earn pennies on a dollar. One way to make sure that individuals don’t qualify for welfare is to raise the minimum wage. But my Republican colleagues fail to do that as well. But to see this as a welfare program, it’s not. These are individuals who have jobs, but are not earning enough to afford the prices on the private market exchange. We have 230,000 individuals in this state that are uninsured, and to feel that $8.15 is enough to purchase insurance on the private market, I just don’t understand that sentiment.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. We need to leave it there, Senator la Tonya Johnson, thanks very much for joining us.

LaTonya Johnson:
Thank you.