Here & Now

Here & Now for September 4, 2020

Announcer:

A PBS Wisconsin original production. The following program is part of our “Here & Now” 2020 election coverage.

Frederica Freyberg:

For the second week in a row, Kenosha gathered the attention of our nation. Ongoing actions for racial justice, accompanied by visits from the candidates running for president. President Donald Trump reviewed property damage and emphasized his platform of law and order at a small gathering in a school cafeteria. Thursday, challenger Joe Biden walked the other side of the street, meeting with the family of Jacob Blake, the Black man shot in the back seven times by a Kenosha police officer.

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” “Here & Now” Reporter Will Kenneally takes us to Kenosha and another week in the national spotlight. Governor Tony Evers is here to speak to what he calls the legislature’s inaction on police reform. Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke is also here to talk up the role of the speaker’s task force on reform. And later an interview with a UW physician so sure of a new coronavirus vaccine that he took the vaccine himself to kick off the trial. It’s “Here & Now” for September 4.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

The protests in Kenosha this week have been largely peaceful. So much so that officials ended the 7:00 p.m. nightly curfew. But attention to the city was renewed as President Donald Trump and candidate Joe Biden visited, talking racial disparities and policing. Will Kenneally has the story.

Will Kenneally:

The streets of Kenosha were filled again this week as presidential politics descended on the city in the wake of the Jacob Blake shooting. The president was in the city Tuesday touring damage caused by violent protests and speaking with local law enforcement. The visit was contrasted two days later when Democratic candidate Joe Biden visited Kenosha to speak with the Blake family and community members. The family, however, was not inclined to speak with the president.

Justin Blake:

We don’t have any words for the orange man. All I ask is that he keep his disrespect, his foul language far away from our family. We need a president that’s going to unite our country and take us in a different direction.

Will Kenneally:

The two men offered different visions for a path forward as Kenosha begins to heal. Trump offered support for law enforcement and those affected by the violence.

Donald Trump:

We must give far greater support to our law enforcement. It’s all about giving them additional support. These are great people. These are great, great people. These are brave people. They’re fighting to save people they never met before in many cases.

Will Kenneally:

Biden offered a vision for how to address racial disparities in the country.

Joe Biden:

If I get elected president, I promise you there will be a national commission on policing out of the White House, where I’ll bring everyone to the table.

Will Kenneally:

The two visits fall amid a contentious presidential election. In 2016 Kenosha County was won by Donald Trump with just a few hundred votes. The protests themselves have also become a wedge issue. The president has championed law and order but now trails Biden in his handling of criminal justice.

Crowd:

Hands up! Don’t shoot!

Will Kenneally:

Support for racial justice protests have also fallen in Wisconsin among the most recent Marquette Law School Polls. The politics of the event struck a chord with Wisconsin leaders who asked the candidates to let Kenosha heal.

Tony Evers:

I would prefer no one be here, whether it be candidate Trump or candidate Biden.

Will Kenneally:

And comes as Wisconsin politicians work to move forward on policing reform legislation. The state legislature convened a gubernatorial-ordered special session Monday, taking a bipartisan step to not immediately gavel out the session. The bills proposed by Evers would create statewide use of force standards and more oversight. The GOP proposal has some overlaps and would add penalties for violence against first responders. Republicans say the bills will take time to vet but Democrats want quicker action.

Lena Taylor:

I appreciate the concept of not trying to rush anything, but I also understand the sense of urgency.

Woman:

Oh, yeah.

Lena Taylor:

It’s a difference. So waiting til January is not quite it.

Will Kenneally:

All the while, leaders call for action.

Justin Blake:

We going to make some big changes that affect all the little Jakes around this nation, so their parents can let their children go outside the door, play in the yard, go down the street, drive the vehicle and not have to worry about police officers that might do them in, that might disallow them from getting back to their families or shoot them in the back seven times.

Will Kenneally:

Reporting from Kenosha, this is Will Kenneally for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:

The police shooting of Jacob Blake not only set off a storm of protests for racial justice, it was the spark that led Governor Tony Evers to order a special session of the Legislature to take up his proposals on police reform. He called the session to act on a slate of reforms, including a ban on the use of police chokeholds, eliminating the use of police no-knock warrants and the creation of statewide use of force standards. The session was gaveled in by Republican majorities in both houses on Monday, but in a skeletal session which took up no debate and delayed action. Thursday, Republican leaders extended the session into next week. Later in the program we will talk with Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke. Joining us now is Governor Tony Evers and thank you very much for being here.

Tony Evers:

Thanks, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Before we get to proposals for police reform, President Trump says he ended the violence in Kenosha. What is your response to that?

Tony Evers:

Well, I think the people of Kenosha had a role in that. I think the people that serve in law enforcement had a role in that. Frankly, our National Guard. I know that President Trump is trying to claim that he did that, but frankly positioning the National Guard is a state issue. It’s not a national issue. It’s never been a national issue. Everything the city of Kenosha and the county of Kenosha asked of me, we did, and that included from 3:00 a.m. on Monday morning, we started moving National Guard members into Kenosha and doubled that number every single day. We eventually reached out to other states. And so, you know, as far as who’s taking credit, I think I would say certainly the law enforcement and National Guard, but also the peaceful protestors of Kenosha and, frankly, the parents of the gentleman that was shot. I mean, people were calling out for peace and that’s exactly what happened. I don’t — I don’t know what the president’s role played at all.

Frederica Freyberg:

Are some of those National Guard troops standing down today?

Tony Evers:

Yes. We have sent back the out-of-state members and have our members — we still have people on the ground there, but we did stand some down.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you asked President Trump not to come. Do you think in the end he did inflame tensions?

Tony Evers:

Well, I don’t think he helped. I mean, when you — first of all, people there want to heal and that’s a real important thing. And when you’re there as a chief — chief person of the United States, especially as it relates to health care, in a room with people where no one’s wearing a mask, that sends a bad message. I would say that doesn’t help people heal, when you’re absolutely not doing what you should be doing. Additionally, he was — he was making some statements around the shooting of the gentleman and talked about it in terms of — instead of the fact that he was shot, Jacob was shot seven times in the back, he compared it to choking on a putt on the golf course. To me, that’s an irrational comment.

Frederica Freyberg:

You also asked former Vice President Joe Biden not to come to Kenosha. What did he say in response to you when you talked with him about not coming?

Tony Evers:

He felt confident that he could provide empathy and the healing that the people needed. Clearly candidates can make their own decisions, whether I want them to come or not, but he indicated, he promised me that he would be empathetic and he would be working to make sure that people are healing in a positive way.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to your special session on police reform, it was gaveled in, but your proposals were not taken up. What is your reaction to the Legislature’s action on this?

Tony Evers:

Well, and that goes back to Jacob Blake and his parents, too, that they are saying, yes, we’re hurting, we want to heal, but we have to have policy changes and that’s exactly why we did what we did, is we needed policy changes as it relates to policing, you know, as it relates to a number of different things. But I am very disappointed, and not surprised, but very disappointed. But so are the people in the state. We actually have our professional athletes in this state talking about this. And so after the incident in Minneapolis, people of Wisconsin were well aware of what the changes should be. They’re supportive of it. For some reason, the Republicans are not. I don’t get it.

Frederica Freyberg:

And yet do you believe you will be able to work in a bipartisan way on this with this speaker’s task force?

Tony Evers:

Well, I don’t think we have to wait for a task force. I’ve been talking to — some of these bills are Republican bills. And Senator Wanggard from Racine has been working on things too so I think the pieces are in place. We don’t need a task force. People want action.

Frederica Freyberg:

Governor Tony Evers, thanks for joining us.

Tony Evers:

Thanks a lot Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

The chair of a new Republican Task Force on Police Standards and Racial Disparities, Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke, says he expects the governor’s proposals as well as the Republicans’ own plan will be taken up when the Legislature convenes after the first of the year. Representative Steineke joins us now from Kaukauna. Thanks for being here.

Jim Steineke:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So why wait to take up police reform in Wisconsin?

Jim Steineke:

Well, first I want to correct something. It’s not a Republican task force. It’s a task force that is going to have bipartisan support. We expect to announce in the coming days a co-chair that is going to come from the other side of the aisle. We’ll be making decisions on the makeup, the composition of the task force together and setting agendas and talking about how we move forward together. So really what we want to do is show the state and the nation that when we bring people together, Democrats, Republicans, people from communities of color, along with law enforcement, we can still solve these big issues but do it in a way that, again, brings people together.

Frederica Freyberg:

Still, the governor did not respond particularly favorably to this, saying that the people of Wisconsin don’t want another task force to mull things over. What’s your reaction to that?

Jim Steineke:

Yeah. It’s kind of funny coming from a guy that’s created I think somewhere around a dozen task forces on his own over the course of the first two years of his administration. So he’s relied heavily on task forces himself to look at issues. But it’s a little frustrating because the administration has typically thrown things out there and told us to pass it by starting a special session, said you guys just pass this. We want to do things a little differently, again, bringing together Democrats and Republicans, people from communities of color and law enforcement all to work on issue together so we can have some consensus around these issues.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know your leadership decided to extend the special session call until Tuesday. What’s that about?

Jim Steineke:

Really, again, it’s keeping it open so that we can examine these issues through the use of the task force so that if the task force completes its work on time, we have the special session available to us to take up those bills. If we run into the end of the year or early next year, then we can go back in regular session. But there’s no reason to adjourn the special session right now.

Frederica Freyberg:

So, I mean, are you suggesting that you’d be able to take something up at the start of next week?

Jim Steineke:

No. No. No. No. No. Because we’re going to take some time as far as the setting up the task force. So that’s going to take a couple of weeks. We’ll start meeting by the end of the month. The reason to recess the special session until next week is we have to do that on a weekly basis. So we have to come in, open it up and then recess to the next week just to keep the special session open.

Frederica Freyberg:

There does seem to be some overlap between Republican proposals and the governor’s; namely, on use of force. He calls for standards. The speaker was talking about looking at a use — or actually it was Senator Wanggard looking at a use of force review board but do you expect to be able to come together on this and other policy around police reform and racial inequity?

Jim Steineke:

Absolutely. I’m really excited about it. My initial conversations with members of the Black caucus and the Assembly have been very good. I think we’re kind of on the same page as far as what we want to see come out of this task force. And really, at the end of the day in order to get anything substantive passed, we have to have buy-in of not only Democrats and Republicans, but the people this affects in communities of color and law enforcement all coming together. So I expect we’ll take up and look at the Democratic proposals. We’ll look at Republican proposals. But then we’ll also look at the WPPA proposals that they put out this week and what other states are doing as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

That’s Professional Police Association?

Jim Steineke:

Yes, ma’am.

Frederica Freyberg:

So moving on to the visits by the presidential candidates this week, former Governor Walker said that Joe Biden was using Kenosha as a political prop. Why can’t the same be said of Donald Trump?

Jim Steineke:

Yeah. I mean, for me, I welcome any type of attention that these visits bring to the state because it has been such a pain point for the people of the city of Kenosha, and hopefully these visits, both from the president and from Joe Biden, will begin the healing process. It would be frustrating if they were using it as campaign ploys. Hopefully that’s not the case. Really appreciate what the president did in allocating resources to the state to help rebuild the community and help heal that area, because it’s incredibly important.

Frederica Freyberg:

Were you surprised to learn that Governor Evers actually also asked Joe Biden not to come, as he had the president?

Jim Steineke:

Yeah. That’s what Governor Evers says that he did. You know, he made it very public announcement that he didn’t want President Trump to come. If he did say that to candidate Biden, he did it a little quieter and not in a public letter. But I’ll take him at his word that he asked both candidates not to come.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave our conversation here, but thanks very much and we will be following the work of the task force as well as the full Legislature as it moves ahead on police reform. Thank you.

Jim Steineke:

Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Frederica Freyberg:

School, both virtual and in person, is back in session for the UW System this week. System President Tommy Thompson said a dashboard that accounts for details on COVID-19 on all campuses is forthcoming. UW-Madison’s dashboard is up and running and gets updated each day. As of this afternoon, Madison reports 440 students are COVID-19 positive. There are 22 UW staff members who are positive for the virus. Testing began late last month with the arrival of students to campus. “Here & Now” Reporter Trevor Keller talked with some of them.

Trevor Keller:

It’s the first week of the fall semester at UW-Madison and signs point to plenty of new precautions.

Megan Paquette:

Anytime we’re out of our room, we have to wear masks. I’m always washing my hands. We only are allowed four people in a room.

Trevor Keller:

The university “Smart ReStart” program hopes to curb large gathering by limiting access to dorms and dining areas.

Elizabeth Rakowski:

From what I’ve seen, everyone has been wearing masks, taking precautions, so I’m not really worried.

Trevor Keller:

The plan is to hold a mix of virtual and in-person classes through Thanksgiving.

Rebecca Blank:

It is deeply important for our students where there are small classes that we can safely hold to engage in that type of face-to-face discussion with faculty and with each other.

Trevor Keller:

Students living on campus will be tested at least once every two weeks. The question is will these precautions work?

Woman:

What do we want?

Crowd:

A moral restart.

Trevor Keller:

Not everyone thinks so. A group of faculty and staff held a rally in mid-August calling for a moral restart with all-virtual learning.

Cv Vitolo-Haddad:

There are many classes that are planning to be held in person that don’t need to be. There are workers who have concerns about being forced to — in order to keep their jobs, put their lives at risk, especially workers who are immunocompromised but also all of us. We really don’t know what the long-term consequences of COVID are.

Trevor Keller:

How many cases will it take to go all virtual? Officials won’t say.

Lori Reesor:

There’s no magic number. We do expect that there are going to be more positive tests when we start surveying and testing thousands of students.

Trevor Keller:

The university says they’ll evaluate case numbers daily and make decisions accordingly. No matter what happens, one thing certain to be on the syllabus this semester is an emphasis on safety.

Elizabeth Rakowski:

I was really looking forward to football games and all of that stuff but maybe in the spring.

Trevor Keller:

Reporting in Madison for “Here & Now,” I’m Trevor Keller.

Frederica Freyberg:

As we mentioned earlier, UW System President Tommy Thompson said a system-wide dashboard on COVID-19 data will be available soon.

Meanwhile, one UW Health physician is so confident in the safety of an investigational vaccine for COVID-19 that he was first in line to participate in a new trial this week. Dr. Jeff Pothof is not connected to the study but he is the UW Health’s chief quality officer. The study, administered by UW Health and the UW School of Medicine, is open for enrollment. Investigators hope to vaccinate 1600 volunteers over the next eight weeks at University Hospital. Dr. Jeff Pothof joins us now and thanks very much for being here.

Jeff Pothof:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why did you decide to be the first in line to receive the vaccine in this trial here?

Jeff Pothof:

You know, the main reason is, is I think the majority of us are just really tired of this whole coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic. We’re tired of how many people have been made sick. We’re tired of how many people have died. We’re tired of not being able to do a lot of the things that we want to do. Our kids aren’t going to school. We can’t see our sports teams play. And a safe and effective vaccine is going to be our most powerful tool to really close the book on this pandemic. I reviewed the safety profile of this vaccine. I’ve talked to the researchers. And for me, that tremendous benefit of getting us closer to normal far outweighed the small risk in this trial. That’s just something I wanted to be part of the solution.

Frederica Freyberg:

Did you have any aftereffects from it that you know of?

Jeff Pothof:

A bit of little tenderness over the injection site. Yesterday I had a mild headache so really hard to tell if so things would have just happened anyways or were they related to the injection but those are some of the things I experienced. Today I feel great.

Frederica Freyberg:

The president has said that he hopes and expects a vaccine will be available by early November. How realistic do you think that is?

Jeff Pothof:

You know, early November seems to be a little bit sooner than what I think we’ll be ready to have the data available. The only reason to approve a vaccine is if we know it’s safe and effective for hundreds of millions of people to get it. There’s no other reason or no other indication that we should be approving a vaccine before we know the answer to those two questions.

Frederica Freyberg:

With UW schools opening this week as well as K-12 schools, what concerns do you have that young people, again, who are among kind of the highest subset of people seeing positive COVID cases, can conform their behavior to limit the spread?

Jeff Pothof:

Yeah. As I look at these college reopening plans, the plans that they have on paper are really pretty okay, they’re pretty good. The concern that I have is it really — the bulk of the responsibility rests on those students, and as we’ve had more experiences with colleges opening, I’d say that our experience hasn’t been all that great. We’ve had a lot of college campuses report high levels of COVID-19 transmission through activities that aren’t necessarily happening during the school day, but when the school day is over. So if we continue to see that trend, I think what you’ll find is high levels of COVID-19 transmitting between that age demographic. College campuses potentially having to think about shutting down. And then we’re left with the issue of do we need to then cohort those students on campus in the city they’re in so they don’t go back to their communities across the United States and increase the COVID-19 transmissibility across the country.

Frederica Freyberg:

So specifically, when you see numbers reaching into the hundreds at UW campuses, with the most at UW-Madison with something over 300 cases, should that be of concern?

Jeff Pothof:

I think it’s certainly of concern. I think what we need to do is look at those cases and figure out where are they at. Are they somewhat sporadic? Are we able to keep up on contact tracing and keep ahead of this so those cases can’t then exponentially increase with the next round? If we find ourselves in a situation where we can’t keep up on it, then we need to make harder decisions about what to do with our campuses. If we have robust contact tracing, some of those individuals can be isolated and they can’t keep spreading it to other people, we’ve got a fighting chance. But to say that there isn’t concern, there is concern about how the college campuses are going to work out this fall.

Frederica Freyberg:

You touched on this briefly, but for those students not in residence halls who are getting kind of regular testing, should the students outside residence halls take it on themselves to get tests either through their school or community or clinics?

Jeff Pothof:

Yeah. I think especially if you’re in congregate living or close to other people, for sure if you are not able or are unwilling to abide by social distancing or masking guidelines, it is really important to have regular testing in those demographics so we can identify this especially in those asymptomatic patients before they are able to spread it to a whole lot of other people. So yeah, we would encourage anyone in those environments to get tested.

Frederica Freyberg:

Just super briefly, what are health care workers steeling for as we come into the regular flu season?

Jeff Pothof:

A bit of apprehension and then a silver lining. Our big fear is if we have high levels of COVID-19 and high levels of influenza, we could out-strip our personal protective equipment. We could outstrip the number of rooms we have to take care of people with respiratory illness. The silver lining is with mask mandates and physical distancing in place, those are also effective against the flu. So we’re hopeful the influenza season is tamed down this year because those measures are in place.

Frederica Freyberg:

Good point. Dr. Jeff Pothof, thanks very much.

Jeff Pothof:

You bet. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

In efforts to stem further spread of COVID-19 on campus, this afternoon public health officials in UW-Madison directed 420 students living in nine fraternity and sorority houses to quarantine for 14 days. This is because as of midweek 38 of the students had tested positive for the virus. According to public health officials, violation of quarantine or any isolation orders could result in a court order for involuntary quarantine or a fine of up to $10,000.

For more coverage of COVID-19 as well as the latest Wisconsin political news, go to our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news page. Additional coverage of the coronavirus in Wisconsin can be found at WisContext.org.

That is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a safe and happy holiday weekend.

Announcer:

For more “Here & Now” 2020 election coverage, go to PBS.org and click on news. Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.