Here & Now

Here & Now for May 28, 2021

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

In Minneapolis, and across the country, George Floyd is remembered this week on the one-year anniversary of his murder. And in Madison, getting shots in arms. The Urban League brings vaccinations closer to people’s doorstep.

I’m Frederica Freyberg, tonight on “Here & Now,” Murv Seymour reports on an Urban League community vaccination effort. Milwaukee County Executive David Crowley reflects on the work left to do on the anniversary of George Floyd’s death and we team up with Wisconsin Public Radio to spotlight the power of prosecutors. It’s “Here & Now” for May 28.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

The COVID-19 vaccination rate in Wisconsin for people who have now had their first dose stands at 47.5%. But there remain large disparities in who is getting them. Of all people in Wisconsin who have had their first dose, Black residents have the lowest rate of vaccination in the state at 23.6%. Trying to get more shots in arms, a new project run by the Urban League of Madison is doing just that. Bringing opportunities for vaccinations deeper into the community. Murv Seymour reports.

Bonnie Margulis:

Everybody needs to get vaccinated.

Murv Seymour:

On this day outside the Urban League headquarters on Madison’s south side, it’s a party atmosphere. The neighborhood has been peppered with signs and fliers in the words of organizers to do.

Bonnie Margulis:

Everything we can to reach as many people as we can, as many different ways as we can.

Murv Seymour:

It’s an invitation for anyone to come inside for an all-out effort to help protect this community, especially its black and brown people.

Man:

Glad you came in today.

Bonnie Margulis:

We have only been open for a couple of hours. We’ve had already had tons of traffic.

Ruben Anthony:

The whole point of this event today is to bring the vaccine into the community.

Woman:

Looks like a great turnout.

Ruben Anthony:

Many of us have people in our families that have been infected, you know, and died.

Murv Seymour:

The four letters of this small word means anyone who shows up can get the shot. The only cost, time. Urban League of Greater Madison has partnered with SSM Health and almost a dozen other community organizations to bring the vaccine a foot step closer to people like Bruce Tate, who says three people in his family have the virus. For him and so many others, getting vaccinated has been tougher because of a lack of transportation and clinics close to home.

Bruce Tate:

I think it’s kind of fun. It almost doesn’t look like you are coming to get a shot, it looks like almost like a meet and greet of some sort.

Murv Seymour:

This critical vaccine drive run from this mid-sized room also targets people like 13-year-old Marcus Allen.

Marcus Allen:

Now they’ve made it for the 12 plus, I’m like I could travel more.

Karen Timberlake:

We’re doing a lot of outreach with pediatricians and healthcare providers all across our state because we know parents are looking to their pediatricians.

Murv Seymour:

Marcus proudly takes a post vaccine photo with his dad for a social media campaign run by Rabbi Bonnie Margulis. The campaign encourages others to get the picture black and brown people face across the state with COVID-19.

Bonnie Margulis:

We’re trying to get as many folks from all different walks of life, different ages, different ethnicities because the more people see people who look like them, oh, they got the shot and this is why, and that really resonates with me, maybe that will make me think about maybe I should go get vaccinated as well.

Murv Seymour:

Midway through this five-hour effort, a surprise visit from Governor Tony Evers.

Tony Evers:

This isn’t a Black or white issue or brown issue or Indigenous people issue, it’s a Wisconsin issue.

Murv Seymour:

Organizers of this pop-up vaccination clinic say its success is all about partnerships.

Bonnie Margulis:

We just have so much greater reach. My organization in particular reaches out to the faith community, the Urban League reaches out to the African-American community. We also partner with Centro Hispano and Voces de La Frontera which has their outreach to the Latinx community.

Ruben Anthony:

People trust us. One of the young women today taking a shot, she whispered in my ear, she says, “I took the shot because I saw the promotion that you did.”

Man:

This isn’t going to go away if we don’t get our shots.

Bonnie Margulis:

Everybody needs to get vaccinated to keep themselves safe. Keep their loved ones safe and so that we all can get back to normal life.

Murv Seymour:

Reporting for “Here & Now,” I’m Murv Seymour.

Frederica Freyberg:

Seventy-six people came out to receive the Pfizer vaccine during the event. The second dose will be provided on June 15th.

Next, we bring you two parts of a collaborative reporting project between PBS Wisconsin and Wisconsin Public Radio under the WisContext banner. The topic, prosecutors. District attorneys and why they are so rarely challenged on the ballot. For part one, “Here & Now” reporter Will Kenneally delves into the DAs themselves and what kind of power and discretion they wield.

Woman:

DAs office. How can I help you?

Will Kenneally:

One DA calls them the gatekeepers to the criminal justice system. All eyes turn toward that one official on the question of whether police, for example, will be charged in shootings. District attorneys play a prominent role in the state’s criminal justice system. But as elected officials, when they run for office every four years, they often go unchallenged. Only four seats were contested in the 2020 general election. These races line up with presidential elections and are partisan offices. The current breakdown is 41 Republican DAs and 23 Democratic DAs. There are also seven independent district attorneys. All told, that’s 71 DAs representing each Wisconsin county with Shawano and Menominee Counties sharing a single DA. The district attorneys and the attorneys on their staff function to some degree as both state and county officials because while the state government pays their salaries, DAs themselves are elected by county voters and county governments also pay for their administrative staff. DAs have broad authority to decide whether to bring charges. Former Supreme Court Justice Shirley Abrahamson put it this way. “This court has repeatedly emphasized that the prosecutor has great discretion in determining whether to commence a prosecution. While it is the prosecutor’s duty to prosecute criminal actions…the prosecutor is not required to prosecute all cases in which it appears that the law has been violated.” This means district attorneys can broadly decide which cases they prosecute. Last year in Kenosha, for example, District Attorney Michael Gravely declined to prosecutor the officer who shot Jacob Blake, saying he was unlikely to win the case against the officer if Gravely took it to trial.

Michael Graveley:

If you do not have a case you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt as you’re going to hear me talk about, then you are ethically obligated not to charge such a case.

Will Kenneally:

In a similar instance from Dane County, DA Ismael Ozanne determined the officer who shot and killed Tony Robinson did so lawfully.

Ismael Ozanne:

This tragic and unfortunate death was the result of a lawful use of deadly police force and that no charges should be brought against Officer Kenny in the death of Tony Robinson, Jr.

Will Kenneally:

Even though big cases, including police shootings attract the most public scrutiny, these are decisions DAs have to make large and small, day in and day out. Abrahamson called their role quasi-judicial. She said it is his or her duty to administer justice rather than to obtain convictions.

Man:

All rise.

Will Kenneally:

Reporting for “Here & Now,” this is Will Kenneally.

Frederica Freyberg:

As we just reported, district attorneys wield a lot of power in their discretion on charging decisions and are regarded even as holding a quasi-judicial standing. So what if they decide to change it up, try to change the criminal justice system using their discretion? There is a movement of progressive prosecutors across the country, notably like the Philly DA, who is the subject of PBS series by the same name. Tonight we learn more about progressive prosecutors from the director of the UW Law School Prosecution Project and former prosecutor himself, Lanny Glinberg. Thanks for being here.

Lanny Glinberg:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

What does it mean to be a progressive prosecutor?

Lanny Glinberg:

Well, there’s no particular credential to be a progressive prosecutor. But the philosophy of progressive prosecutors is that they want to wield their prosecutorial power, which is substantial, the most powerful actor in the criminal justice system. They want to wield that discretion, that prosecutorial power, both to serve the interest of public safety but as well to address real problems we have in the criminal justice system, the problems of mass incarceration. This country incarcerates more people than any other country. That burden disproportionately falls on people that are underrepresented, that are poor, people of color, and the progressive prosecutors want to wield their authority to address those problems as well as of course the main function of a prosecutor, to address public safety, to ensure public safety.

Frederica Freyberg:

What’s an example of how they would proceed in a particular case in a progressive way?

Lanny Glinberg:

Well, by being mindful of the consequences of engaging in a prosecution. By that I mean the traditional approach to prosecution, more traditional, been dominate over four decades, is simply to charge a crime, seek conviction and confine somebody. Confine somebody that committed a crime as a means of addressing public safety. In reality, that has not served us so well. As I mentioned, we have substantial numbers of those incarcerated and if incarceration and confinement equal public safety, we would have the safest country in the world. And we don’t. So, in an individual case, a prosecutor needs to be attentive to not only just the charging and conviction and confinement, but what are the other costs of commencing a crime, of seeking a conviction. Not just the monetary cost of confining somebody, but there are real social costs as well. And being attentive to those social costs. Being mindful about the type of penalty that a prosecutor seeks or whether to issue charges in the first place. What will the consequences on the broader community be on the individual, their connection to family, work, stable housing, those are the things that the research tells us results in individuals desisting from crime, not just confinement. So, focusing on that and mindful of the consequences on other factors, to bring about public safety.

Frederica Freyberg:

Is there a pushback on this kind of method or sensibility on the part of the more traditional prosecutors?

Lanny Glinberg:

Indeed there is resistance. It varies from community to community. Prosecutors, of course, as you reported just a few moments ago are elected county by county. Local sensibilities affect the priorities of prosecution so that resistance may be different in different places. But indeed generally, or to some of the progressive prosecutors, there is some resistance. It can come from a number of places. One, prosecutors themselves. It is risky to look at a new model of prosecution or to be more sensitive to the sort of things that I described. Taking a thoughtful and nuanced view of addressing public safety as a political matter has not been the approach. Political — what’s been politically safe is to run against crime, run against criminals. So, there is political risk associated with it. As well, resistance can come from any number of other actors within the institutions of the criminal justice system, whether it be the bench, other prosecutors, police or voters even because as I said, these are elective offices and there are political consequences for these decisions.

Frederica Freyberg:

We know Philadelphia’s DA, Larry Krasner, is a progressive prosecutor who pledged to end mass incarceration. Are there similar prosecutors across Wisconsin? Is it kind of a growing movement in states like Wisconsin?

Lanny Glinberg:

I think it’s a growing movement in a lot of places and there is a spectrum of prosecutors from what I would describe as very traditional, focused on charging, convicting and confining to the type of progressive model that we are talking about now. There are some that are, and this is independent of party, across the state, that have a more reform-minded approach, a more reform-minded or progressive mentality. I want to be careful to say I’m not using the term progressive in the political sense, but in the sense of a new approach reviewing or revisiting what the priorities of prosecution are. Certainly there are some in this state. We have the spectrum from traditional to more progressive.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right, we need to leave it there. Really fascinating stuff. Thanks very much, Lanny Glinberg.

Lanny Glinberg:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Having any mark of a criminal record can mean losing job and housing opportunities during a background check. In many cases, people who are eligible to have these records cleared don’t have the resources to navigate the process or don’t know they can clear them until now. A new free online tool allows people in Wisconsin to see what records may be following them, and if they qualify for removal. Marisa Wojcik spoke with Marsha Mansfield, executive director of Legal Interventions for Transforming Wisconsin about the process.

Marsha Mansfield:

The tool that we rolled out yesterday specifically is directed towards helping people clear criminal records. And criminal records include records of convictions but they also include records of arrests and often times people are arrested for things for which they are not charged or they are charged for an event that doesn’t result in a conviction but those arrests and those charges can show up on people’s criminal history reports and those criminal history reports are what landlords and employers use when they make background checks.

Marisa Wojcik:

Are those prompts to not discriminate against people not enough for potential employers or landlords to deter them from not discriminating against someone for their past?

Marsha Mansfield:

You are right, Marisa, there are laws in Wisconsin that prevent people from discriminating based on things such as arrest or conviction records. But we as people have an emotional response when we see things like that, right. Even though you are not supposed to discriminate, if you have a candidate who you run a background check and there’s nothing in their criminal history background or there’s nothing on C-CAP and then you run a criminal background check on somebody else that does have a history, even if it’s a history of a case where charges were made but there were no convictions, even though you are not supposed to discriminate based on those two findings, you can’t help but think hmm, who might be a better tenant or who might be a better employee, and your gut tells you to pick someone even though you might not consciously be aware you are discriminating as a result.

Marisa Wojcik:

It’s free for people to use. Without it, what are the ripple effects of these compounding barriers as someone has these records that they don’t know need to be cleared or don’t know how to clear, and on the flip side, what benefit does it have to society to have people have those records cleared and have some of these barriers removed for people who are looking for better employment, better housing?

Marsha Mansfield:

There was a very large research project undertaken in Michigan a couple of years ago of cases where expungements were able to be accomplished with a noticeable increase in economic benefits for individuals, both in jobs and in wages. Those jobs and wages trickle down to support families and they support our economy.

Marisa Wojcik:

In this time when we have seen a large reckoning in how different races interact with the criminal justice system, with police, are people of color more impacted by these records being around and impacting employment and housing and could this also be a step towards greater equity in that area?

Marsha Mansfield:

Absolutely. This is totally a racial equity tool. I mean, it’s well-documented that policing impacts people of color much more than white people. And that means when they are arrested, they’re going to have longer arrest records, and so, and that’s going to further hamper their ability to obtain better jobs, housing, and economic prosperity. So it’s definitely has an impact on addressing racial inequities in our system.

Frederica Freyberg:

You can view Marisa’s complete interview with Marsha Mansfield by going to PBSwisconsin.org and clicking on the news page. Now to the state Capitol where as expected, Republicans took less than a minute Tuesday to open and close Governor Evers’ special session on Medicaid expansion. Evers’ proposal would have added Wisconsin to the list of 38 other states that have expanded Medicaid as part of the Affordable Care Act. The bill would have opened the door to $1 billion in federal funds. Republicans claim Wisconsinites have good healthcare options now. Also this week, Assembly Speaker Robin Vos said he plans to hire three retired police officers to investigate claims of election fraud in the 2020 Wisconsin presidential election. First reported by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, the investigators would serve under the direction of the campaign’s and election’s committee. Wisconsin election officials have stated confidence in the elections process and results.

This week marked the one-year anniversary of the murder of George Floyd by a Minneapolis police officer. As we mark the anniversary and see work towards police reform at the national, state and local levels, we spoke with Milwaukee County Executive David Crowley who said in the wake of the murder “there are no words that can rectify this injustice, only action,” he said, “can come of this.” He sat down with special projects reporter Murv Seymour, who asked the county executive how people have been commemorating the anniversary.

David Crowley:

I know a lot of people have really taken to the streets wanting to let their voices be heard but really to call for an investment in social programs that will help out this community. When we think about what we have seen in the past many years, generations, it has been an unequal distribution of resources from government at all levels. So for us, it’s about listening to the community and doing what we need to do to make sure we’re combating racism across this whole country but we also have to make sure we’re starting right here within Milwaukee County. And I would say that’s also one of the reasons why we say racism is a public health crisis, the first in the nation, and we have seen 180 communities follow suit. So we know we are on the right path and we know we still have a long road ahead of us.

Murv Seymour:

I know you mentioned a year ago you saw racism as a public health crisis and you wanted to see some change come. Has there been enough change in your view in the last year?

David Crowley:

I would say it’s never enough when you think about everything that we have been enduring in the middle of this pandemic with COVID-19 and so I would say that we see a lot of change here within Milwaukee County. We’ve not only said racism is a public health crisis but we’ve been focusing on our first strategic plan in over 20 years. We have three strategic focus areas that we’re focusing on which is one: intentional inclusion, making sure that the people at the table, the decision makers look exactly like the community. We want to bridge the gap at both race and health disparities, making sure we can break down silos, but we also have to put our money where our mouth is, and that’s investing in equity, making sure people feel heard and feel like they are being valued. For us, I would say we are constantly taking baby steps to combat these forces. But we can’t do it alone. It’s going to take all of us coming together and making sure we do this right and I would say when you think about this work, it’s not for the light hearted. This is hard work. It takes a huge toll on us and self-care is definitely needed but we need all hands on deck. It doesn’t matter if you are Republican, a Democrat, a union member or a business owner, we need you at the table to figure out how we solve the issues our community faces.

Murv Seymour:

A new poll by the Associated Press and the National Opinion Research Center indicates most Blacks think racism and police brutality are serious problems, a far less percentage of whites feel the same way. Why do you think we see the disparities of opinion between the races?

David Crowley:

I guess at the end of the day, it’s really about having that cultural conversation. A lot of times you don’t understand what somebody is experiencing until you have that deep conversation and sometimes it could be uncomfortable. And so what we need to do is one, recognize that there are certain experiences that certain people have in this community, and we need to call it out. But I know it’s not going to be easy when you have two forces coming together with opposing views to make the change that’s needed. But it’s really about becoming comfortable becoming uncomfortable. Learning about different backgrounds, different belief systems because we can’t continue to allow zip codes and what you look like to determine what the outcomes are going to be in your life.

Murv Seymour:

You mentioned zip codes, do you think this issue of social justice resonates in the rural communities throughout Wisconsin?

David Crowley:

I would say absolutely. When we think about violence in general, poverty, when we think about the issues of education, the issue of jobs, that is shared between many urban and rural communities alike. And so a lot of the times if you ask me, the issue is, it just looks different in each of those communities, and so we just need to again step outside our comfort zone and learn about what other folks are going through, but it’s going to take time. We are talking about a particular ism, racism, which has been here for many decades, hundreds of years. I don’t believe we are going to solve all of our problems overnight or within a year. But we have to continue to make every stride that we have available to us to make sure we combat all these forces and really eliminate racism as an issue here in America and across the country and the world.

Murv Seymour:

And for you as a Black man at the table in Wisconsin’s largest Black-populated city, what kind of things have you been able to accomplish from your position as county executive during the past year?

David Crowley:

Great question. In the middle of this pandemic, we’ve seen how it disproportionately affected communities of color. One of the first things we did is we created a dashboard in March of 2020, which allowed people to actually see what our COVID numbers really looked like. So for us, it’s about making sure we continue to do what we’re doing. We started a Healthy Homes program not too long ago to help those who are homebound and cannot leave, to make sure they get vaccinated. We wanted to help out many small businesses. We gave out $11 million to small businesses with the majority of the recipients being minority, women-owned and disabled veterans. We’re going to continue to do work like this. Even with our zip code program, we’ve seen how the distribution of vaccines was not fair or wasn’t equitable, so we started the zip code program to help those in some of the most underserved zip codes within the city of Milwaukee. We want to continue to have programs like this because we’re learning we are on the right path but it’s going to take all of us coming together to really tackle this issue and solve the problem.

Murv Seymour:

I got time for one quick one. Does the anniversary of George Floyd’s death become the permanent time marker we use to measure progress on social justice, quickly?

David Crowley:

I think it’s not just about George Floyd. We have numerous amount of Black people, Black women and men, people of color who have all died. I think when we look at George Floyd, we look at justice as it relates to Chauvin being found guilty but I think as we look at this, we have to recognize that these killings are still going on. Brutality is still happening, and so we still have a long road ahead of us. It’s about making sure we build a big enough table so everybody can sit around to help solve with solutions.

Murv Seymour:

We’ll have to leave it there. David Crowley, Milwaukee county executive, thank you for joining us for this important discussion.

David Crowley:

Thank for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Murv Seymour spoke with Milwaukee County Executive David Crowley earlier. This coming Tuesday look for PBS Wisconsin and Wisconsin Public Radio WisContext collaborative reporting of the issue of district attorneys in Wisconsin. Head to the online news site at both TV and Radio. Also on Tuesday morning on the Ideas Network at 7:30, hear from the reporters involved in the work. That’s on “The Morning Show” on the Ideas Network. And that is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.