Here & Now

Here & Now for May 13, 2022

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Zac Schultz:

Small startups see their prime time. A national day without childcare highlights a critical demand. Speculation swirls and Wisconsinites prepare as overturning Roe becomes a viable.

I’m Zac Schultz filling in for Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on Here & Now, two state lawmakers on opposite sides of the abortion debate. GOP Representative Barbara Dittrich and Democratic State Senator Kelda Roys join us. A childcare facility reports parents can’t manage without them and how the Great Resignation led to new business startups. It’s Here & Now for May 13th.

Announcer:

Funding for Here & Now is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:

Roe v. Wade stood for 50 years and technically still stands. But with the leak from the United States Supreme Court indicating they plan to strike it down, lawmakers in both parties across the country are making plans for what abortion rights will exist after Roe. We begin tonight with Representative Barbara Dittrich, a Republican from Oconomowoc who joins us now. Thanks for your time. In the last week, we’ve seen Republicans in conservative states move rapidly to introduce new abortion bills. Some going so far as to allow zero exceptions: not in the case of rape, incest or to protect the life of the mother. What can you tell us about what Wisconsin Republicans are likely to introduce?

Barbara Dittrich:

That’s a great question. And we haven’t really come to a consensus as a caucus at this point. I would tell you that we have a wide range of opinions on what should be allowed. As you may know, in the past, Ive introduced legislation exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother but there are some that aren’t even in favor of birth control. So, we have to come to an agreement as a caucus so that we can move forward in the state. Otherwise, the way I understand it, we would revert back to the 1849 law that already exists.

Zac Schultz:

In cases in Wisconsin counties, would you anticipate police or district attorneys investigating miscarriages in order to determine it wasn’t an abortion if that was the law?

Barbara Dittrich:

I can’t even hazard to guess. I haven’t talked to a DA what they would do at this point. Certainly we don’t want that happening. [unintelligible] I think we’re talking more about medical reporting and assurance that’s going as it should.

Zac Schultz:

If Roe v. Wade is overturned, the 1849 statue goes back into effect barring any legal challenges. Are you comfortable with that statue governing abortion laws in Wisconsin? Or do you think there need to be changes no matter what?

Barbara Dittrich:

I don’t think it’s a matter of what my opinion is. I think it’s a matter of what — where we can find common ground in the state of Wisconsin. As you may know, the 1849 law does make exceptions for the life of the mother. And I think there is a certain segment that really insists upon having that exception for rape and incest. I happen to think all life has value. No matter what. So, that being said, something in place that Wisconsinites can live with. On the opposite side of that, most people do not support abortion for any reason at any time. Most people are — who are in favor of it really are in favor of only the first trimester. So, we’ve got to find a place where we find some common ground. And can — in my opinion, respect life in the process.

Zac Schultz:

Polling shows most Wisconsinites believe some form of abortion should be legal and accessible. And we know some of those same people traditionally support Republicans at the ballot box. Are you worried some of those voters may change their minds and vote for Democrats this fall because abortion could be on the ballot for them?

Barbara Dittrich:

No. I’ll tell you why because I have been very overt about my pro-life position since the first day I ran. Anyone who knows me knows my position on abortion. Also, because Ive introduced legislation in the past, pro-life legislation in the past. For example, we don’t want discrimination in the womb any more than we would want it outside of the womb for those with a disability or those — you know, based on the baby’s sex. So, people know my position. So, Im not concerned about how this will affect the election for me.

Zac Schultz:

Now, if women in Wisconsin no longer have a choice whether to carry a pregnancy to term, would you expect Republicans to support more women-friendly legislation like paid family leave, more support for childcare, or mandated sick leave for employers?

Barbara Dittrich:

Well of course we know paid family leave is already an option. Job sharing is already an — I dont think we need to legislate that. I think, especially in this tight job market, that actually favors women because employers are willing to do these things on their own simply because they need women in the work force so much. Things have changed so drastically in this country in the work force verses back when the Roe verses Wade decision was originally made. That the work force looked so much more different. What I do support is, you know, supporting women so they don’t feel like abortion is their only option. You may recall that I have been the chair of a task force on adoption. And Ive really tried to make adoption an easier glide path for families in the state. And I think we can do more around that, as well, for our women that don’t want to parent a child right now. I’ve also supported pharmacists prescribing birth control. So, that women can have easier access to birth control in the state if they so wish. I’d rather see that than see a pregnancy terminated.

Zac Schultz:

Thank you very much for your time Representative Dittrich from Oconomowoc.

We are joined now by State Senator Kelda Roys, a Democrat from Madison. Thanks for your time today.

Kelda Roys:

Good to be with you.

Zac Schultz:

What kind of legislation would you expect to see Republicans introduce in the next session if Roe v. Wade is indeed overturned?

Kelda Roys:

Unfortunately Wisconsin already has on the statues an 1849 ban on abortion making it a crime. So, I would expect to see all kinds of legislation. Things like punishing women and bounty laws like they have in Texas. And that’s why re-electing Governor Evers and Attorney General Josh Kaul is so important if we want to protect people’s reproductive freedom.

Zac Schultz:

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is reporting that Assembly Speaker Robin Vos supports exceptions for rape and incest but he’s not sure the rest of his party will go along with that. Do you believe him? Does he have the pull to actually put those things in place?

Kelda Roys:

I don’t think so. Unfortunately, the Journal Sentinel also reported the Republican Party has been attacking Robin Vos as not conservative enough, which just shows how far right they’ve gone. The current law on the books, the 1849 law that I mentioned, has no exceptions. And so it really doesn’t matter what the circumstance is, abortion would be a crime. And too many Republican politicians, I think, are very comfortable with that kind of a law.

Zac Schultz:

Polling shows that most Wisconsinites support some level of abortion rights. But obviously some of those supporters have voted for Republicans in the past. Do you think overturning Roe v. Wade will change how they vote? Are they reachable for Democrats?

Kelda Roys:

They absolutely are. This is a very different political environment. It’s been easy for Republicans to take these anti-choice votes. You know? Really extreme positions like no exceptions for rape and incest or for a woman’s health. But now that Roe v. Wade is going to be overturned, almost certainly, those votes are no longer just symbolic, right? That’s actually going to have an impact on people’s lives. And I think they are going to be punished at the ballot box.

Zac Schultz:

Now, if Governor Evers wins re-election this fall. Like you said, the old 1849 statue is in place, could you imagine a scenario where Democrats and Republicans pass compromised legislation that would perhaps put more restrictions on abortion than currently exist under Roe v. Wade but not as restrictive as the 1849 law? Is there middle ground if Republicans can’t fit everything they want but the 1849 law is on the books?

Kelda Roys:

Unfortunately, I don’t think that is possible in Wisconsin because our Republican Party is so extreme, they will not want — they will not have enough votes to move legislation that changes that criminal abortion statue in any way. They’ve just gone so far to the right that I don’t think they can get their party back. Part of the problem is the gerrymandering because they are not actually accountable to voters. It’s our job to make sure the governor and the statewide races go democratic and we make sure we are electing pro-choice people.

Zac Schultz:

Formerly you’ve served as the executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Wisconsin. What have you been hearing from both women and doctors in the last week? What have they been telling you?

Kelda Roys:

There is a tremendous amount of concern about how this is going to devastate people’s lives. There’s also quite a lot of energy and hope around trying to preserve access for people. I just published an op-ed with former national head of ACOG urging people to go get medication abortion and just have it on hand. Even if you are not pregnant, just so that if you need it, you’ll have it in your medicine cabinet. There is also a lot of activism around the election because as I said, we are not powerless to just say we’re going to have to go back to 1849. We’re not going to go quietly. We need to make our voices heard at the ballot box and if we do that and if we elect Democrats up and down the ticket, we can codify Roe v. Wade at the federal level and we can make sure nobody is ever prosecuted in Wisconsin for providing abortion care.

Zac Schultz:

Speaking of prosecution in Wisconsin, if the 1849 law is on the books, would you anticipate local police or district attorneys investigating miscarriages and other things like that?

Kelda Roys:

We have — that is not conjecture. We have absolutely seen that around the country in other states. I think it’s very scary. I’m someone who really believes in public safety and wants to have safe neighborhoods. I don’t think we should be diverting our public safety resources from really important investigations so that we can go after women who might be experiencing a trauma. You know, as somebody who has had a miscarriage, I can imagine the only thing that would have made it worse is being investigated by the police instead of receiving appropriate health care.

Zac Schultz:

There are a lot of people commenting today that say this is primarily a woman’s issue. How would you respond to that? What should men be doing at this time? How should they be involved in this conversation?

Kelda Roys:

That’s a great question. This absolutely affects women and men. Anybody who has sex and doesn’t want that to result in a baby should be concerned about what it would mean to not have the option of abortion available for families to choose. Anyone who wants to have a kid but wants to make sure that their partner, their female partner is not put in jeopardy of losing her life or losing her health, should be worried about this. You know, abortion is one of those things you don’t really think about until you need it. But when you need it, you really want to make sure it’s safe and available and accessible. And it’s very important for men to vote, as well, so preserve abortion care and abortion rights because even though there is a big gender gap with party, it is men overwhelmingly who have, sort of, been able to get off scot free by having abortions so widely available and accessible.

Zac Schultz:

All right Kelda Roys, thank you for your time today.

Kelda Roys:

Thank you.

Zac Schultz:

In Washington this week, the U.S. Senate failed to garner the 60 votes needed to pass the Women’s Health Protection Act. The legislation would codify a person’s right to an abortion into federal law. Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin introduced the bill last year and took to the Senate floor this week prior to the vote.

Tammy Baldwin:

This decision if finalized will not stop abortions from happening. It will only prevent safe abortions from happening. And it will disproportionately impact poor women and women of color who will not have the privilege of making their own health care decisions.

Zac Schultz:

And from D.C. to Wisconsin, nurses rallied at the state Capitol this week calling for safer staffing levels, better wages, and more affordable education.

Carolyn Miller:

There have been days when Ive had patients that have had 13 drugs running simultaneously. I’m managing more than one patient with all of that going on. I’m monitoring all of their vital signs. And it is my liability, my license, my responsibility to not only the state, but that hospital, to keep that patient alive. We have known for years that our health care system is not working the way it should be. We lack so much infrastructure and we aren’t heard. That is exactly why this march is happening today. It’s time for nurses to say enough is enough.

Zac Schultz:

We turn now from health care to childcare. Monday was “A Day Without Childcare” in which activists asked childcare centers to close for a day to bring attention to the need for increased wages and more affordable options for parents. We are joined by Tracy Jensen, program director at Sunny Day Childcare and Preschool in Waupaca. Thank you for your time.

Tracy Jensen:

Thanks for having me on today.

Zac Schultz:

The apparent irony of your participation in “A Day Without Childcare” is you felt you couldn’t afford to close for the day, both for you and your parents. Is that accurate?

Tracy Jensen:

That is correct. With having COVID these last couple of years, asking our parents to not be able to be open for childcare we thought was a little bit much. Having to quarantine our classrooms, we have been asking parents to come pick up their children. We felt like they didn’t more days to take off from work. As a community, we decided that we were going to keep our doors open.

Zac Schultz:

So, what did you ask your families to do in lieu of actually taking the day off? How did they try and participate in this day?

Tracy Jensen:

So, we did a hash tag “A Day Without Childcare.” Parents were able to write comments in what they would do if there was no childcare at all. We also had parents come in and have discussions with our staff about the importance of childcare and quality care. Overall, like I said, we had them really — we brought an awareness to childcare and what is going on right now.

Zac Schultz:

It seems like the COVID-19 pandemic brought a new appreciation for childcare providers, but did it bring in enough new dollars to actually support everyone?

Tracy Jensen:

That is a very good question. We are very thankful. We did get federal funding. And we are investing it the best we can to keep ourselves afloat. But we are definitely concerned about sustainability and retention and being able to keep our employees, as well as, gain new employees.

Zac Schultz:

Now, in theory, the laws of supply and demand should dictate the cost and availability of childcare. And perhaps, it does for wealthy families but how does that get disrupted when a childcare center is serving a working-class population?

Tracy Jensen:

As far as like equality? Is that what you’re asking?

Zac Schultz:

Yeah, in terms of your ability to actually charge what you would think would be enough to provide for fair wages. Does that not work in a place like Waupaca the same way it might in a wealthier community or a more populous area?

Tracy Jensen:

It does not work that way for us.

Zac Schultz:

So, what are you able to do? How do you determine what rates you can set? How much your families can afford to pay?

Tracy Jensen:

So, we have a lot of blue-collar workers that have their children here at Sunny Day. So, that kind of determines how the cost is.

Zac Schultz:

And what role do you serve in that regard? I mean, obviously, it’s a service for them to bring their children there but if you weren’t there, would there be other providers that would pop up? You are a pretty large facility, right?

Tracy Jensen:

We are a large facility but we are also in a desert. We have quite a few families on a waiting list here. I think right now we are licensed for 220 children. And I think we have over 100 children, 100 families on a waiting list right now.

Zac Schultz:

Okay.

Tracy Jensen:

So, there definitely is the need for it.

Zac Schultz:

What role does the government have to play in this? Do they need to get out of the way or should the government be getting more involved?

Tracy Jensen:

Sorry, you glitched out. So are you asking should the government be more involved?

Zac Schultz:

Yes, would you like the government to be more involved to help with this or should they get out of the way? Are there too many regulations happening?

Tracy Jensen:

So, we do have — we have Wisconsin Shares, which helps supplement for some of the parents having their children here. But we really need help for everyone overall, for cost of childcare.

Zac Schultz:

Tracy Jensen at Sunny Day Childcare and Preschool, thanks for your time today.

Tracy Jensen:

Yeah, thanks for having us.

Zac Schultz:

Wisconsin small businesses are doing well, according to a new report from the UW System’s Institute of Business and Entrepreneurship. The study shows nearly 11,000 new establishments were opened in the last year. One of the areas seeing rapid growth is the La Crosse region. We are joined now by Anne Hlavacka, the Wisconsin director of the Small Business Development Center at UW-La Crosse. Thanks for your time today.

Anne Hlavacka:

You’re welcome.

Zac Schultz:

So what kind of growth are you seeing in western Wisconsin?

Anne Hlavacka:

So, I think we are seeing kind of what we are seeing around, generally. There are certainly individuals that I think with the pandemic it caused them to kind of think about what they want to be doing. We certainly have heard the terminology of the so-called “Great Resignation” where I think some individuals in that circumstance are trying to determine is now the right time to be my own boss and start a business? There also are opportunities that we are seeing come up because of just the natural transitions that would have occurred but maybe people reflecting and making the decision that now is the time to maybe sell their business or otherwise transition their business. So, it’s really a combination of different factors I think that are coming into play.

Zac Schultz:

And most of these are small businesses, two to nine employees. Are these bakeries, auto shops? What kind of things are we seeing here? Everything?

Anne Hlavacka:

I do think it’s a little bit of everything. I think, like, small business drives also innovation. So, I think you have people who have found different ways to do something and maybe it’s a new product, a new service. Those type of things are also coming into play. And I think that ends up being helpful.

Zac Schultz:

We saw a lot of money injected into the economy through the Democrats’ COVID response packages, both in individual payments to people and through Governor Evers’ ability to hand out money. How much of that is giving people that initiative to start-up something new?

Anne Hlavacka:

Well, I will say one of the recent steps that we’re taking in the state of Wisconsin was a grant program that provided $10,000 for those that moved into vacant commercial spaces. I think that has kind of regenerated interest even in some of our more rural areas to be able to get individuals into spaces. So, those type of programs, I think, have been helpful to be a catalyst for taking the step to going into business. And startups, I think, have benefited from that. A little bit more than some of the other financial relief that has been out there.

Zac Schultz:

We’re also, on the other hand, seeing an increase in inflation and interest rates are going up. Can that put the brakes on some of this growth?

Anne Hlavacka:

Well, I think the issue of inflation and some of the challenges, interest rates, those do impact how fast companies can grow. What level of debt they might be able to take on to speed growth. I do think those will be factors that are going to come into play. But I also think the pandemic has taught a number of businesses and people to think a little bit differently. So, I think they are evaluating their operational steps a little bit closer to determine where really should they put their emphasis. It’s impacting things like what hours a business may be open. How do they create that synergy with other businesses so as to maximize the benefit for all? And yet, at the same time, be able to control their costs.

Zac Schultz:

Do we know if these are more young people taking that first chance in life or later people a little older trying a new career, trying to strike out on their own?

Anne Hlavacka:

I’d have to say it’s a little bit of everything. We see individuals. I would say some that are — they may be retiring a little bit earlier from their traditional jobs but they are not necessarily looking to just going into retirement. They are looking at what opportunities exist for them. I would say in the middle area, there’s a lot of people that feel like they have the technical know-how and really have been thinking in the back of their minds I’d like to do this. I’d like to be the owner. And so I do think there is that element that is out there. I think those individuals will be positioned potentially for some of the transitional areas, for businesses that the current owners want to sell. And they are in a position to potentially buy those businesses. But I always think youth. I mean that is where a lot of our new ideas come from. So, I’d have to say, we see it all. We serve a seven-county region in western Wisconsin and we are seeing it throughout the region and we’re seeing it in a variety of age groups.

Zac Schultz:

In these last few seconds we have, we are talking about location in western Wisconsin. It’s certainly a beautiful place to live. Are people choosing to find a place and start a business as opposed to the old model of moving to where the jobs are?

Anne Hlavacka:

Well, I think it’s, again, a mix because those businesses that get started in a region also then create that next job. I think that then, sort of in itself, kind of fuels that next round where some day those individuals might choose to continue working but some might choose to start a business. Or buy a business. Or buy the business they joined as an employee. So, I would say the one other area here in western Wisconsin we see a lot of activity is, there is a lot of interest in trying to engage the employee as part of kind of an ownership model. We have more interest in employee-owned or cooperative-type businesses because they really do want the people that participate in gaining the business opportunity to actually benefit from it as well. We oftentimes see people wanting to see how to do that.

Zac Schultz:

All right. We will have to leave it there. Anne from La Crosse, thank you for your time today.

Anne Hlavacka:

You bet. Have great day.

Zac Schultz:

Outgoing UW-Madison Chancellor Rebecca Blank gave parting remarks this week speaking to the difficulty of working with the state’s Republican-controlled Legislature.

Rebecca Blank:

This is one of the more constrained and regulated universities in the country. We are much more a state agency than an independent university. And that does create issues at times for all of us. I understand why the state has a strong interest in some of that. But, particularly, as the competitive environment for top research universities has become even more intense, it becomes more and more important that we have some of the freedoms to act in the ways that our peers act. The need to go through three Senate committees and five votes in the governor’s office in order to get approval to get something done. It is what it is.

Zac Schultz:

In full disclosure, PBS Wisconsin is a part of UW-Madison. For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org click on the news tab. That is our program for tonight. Frederica Freyberg will be back next week. I’m Zac Schultz. Have great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for Here & Now is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.