Here & Now

Here & Now for December 6, 2019

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Nancy Pelosi:

Today I’m announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry.

Frederica Freyberg:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi calls for Articles of Impeachment. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” a UW expert on impeachment provides context on what’s happening in Washington. Dumping people who’ve changed address off the voter rolls in Wisconsin. How long should registrations remain active? And an inside look at a new safe house for survivors of sex trafficking, the largest in the state. It’s “Here & Now” for December 6.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Frederica Freyberg:

President Donald Trump is very likely on his way to being impeached by the U.S. House of Representatives. What lies ahead and what does it mean for the electorate now less than a year from the 2020 election. We turn to UW-Madison Political Professor David Canon. Thanks very much for being here.

David Canon:

Good to be with you.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your reaction to Speaker Pelosi’s announcement that House Democrats will proceed in drawing up Articles of Impeachment?

David Canon:

Well, I think there was no doubt almost since the day she announced the inquiry this was the way we were headed. But the surprise was in terms of the timing because especially after the Constitutional experts testified on Wednesday with one of them arguing quite strongly that you need to slow down, get the testimony from Pompeo and from Bolton and Mulvaney and some of the other key witnesses, make this as strong a case as you can, there was some discussion within the Democratic Party about trying to get testimony from those witnesses and that would mean slowing things down a lot because you’d have to get the court decision that would basically order those people to follow the subpoenas. And so you’re looking at probably late spring at the earliest if they did that. So I think the speaker probably has made the calculation that there’s a danger that the clock would just run out. You’d get into the summer. And so I think the decision was, ok, we want to do this right away. And so we’re probably looking at a vote before Christmas.

Frederica Freyberg:

Which Articles of Impeachment or charges do you think are most likely?

David Canon:

Now this is the one place where there still is internal debate. The speaker met with their caucus on Monday. They were talking about this issue. And there’s still a difference of opinion about do we just stick with Ukraine and have one article would be abuse of power, perhaps even narrowly defined as bribery. The second would be on obstruction of justice, the reluctance of the White House or the refusal of the White House to go along with cooperating on many of the witnesses as we already talked about. So those would be most narrowly, the two articles. And then if they decide to make it broader, they could bring in potentially obstruction from the Mueller Report as well. That’s where some people are arguing to make it broader.

Frederica Freyberg:

In terms of that expert who testified that this was being rushed along, do you agree in any way with that?

David Canon:

Not really. That was Jonathan Turley, the expert that was called by the Republicans. He said that, yeah, they just need to slow down to try to get the strongest possible case. In an ideal world, I agree with that. Absolutely. It would be wonderful to have the testimony from those key witnesses. But when you compare it to other impeachments we’ve had. This is only the fourth attempt at impeachment of a president. Andrew Johnson’s, the first back right after the Civil War, that whole process was one week long from the beginning of the inquiry to the impeachment vote. One week total. So that one was like a speed record compared to what we have right now, which is going to be about three months from the beginning of Speaker Pelosi announcing the inquiry to the vote, anticipated vote on probably December 20th. So it’s at least slower than that one. Now it isn’t as long as either the Watergate process or the Clinton impeachment, which both lasted quite a bit longer.

Frederica Freyberg:

But meanwhile, Turley’s counterparts who were testifying said that this was an incredibly clear case. Do you agree with them?

David Canon:

Well, yeah. So I think especially if you keep the focus on what happened with Ukraine, I think that it is a clear case of abuse of power. And if you look at the Republicans’ Minority Report that was issued on Monday from the House Intelligence Committee, they tried to argue that — they definitely tried to argue this was not a clear case and that it doesn’t merit impeachment. And one of the key things that they focused on was that President Trump was justified in asking for the investigation of Biden and of Ukraine’s involvement in the 2016 election because these were legitimate concerns about corruption. That was kind of the general framework they were trying to present this in. But I think those arguments don’t really stand up to a couple of kind of common sense reactions to what we know are the facts on the ground. Like, for example, if that’s true and it was just a general concern with corruption, then why release the military aid in early September after this is revealed? Why not stick to your guns and say, no, we’re trying to pursue corruption here. So why back down? Why deny there’s a quid pro quo when in fact, if this is a legitimate aim of American foreign policy, then quid pro quos are done all the time. Why not say yeah, it’s a quid pro quo, the way Mick Mulvaney attempted to do in that ill-fated press conference.

Frederica Freyberg:

Republicans are also saying that this really is just the embodiment of Democrats’ hatred for Donald Trump. What about that?

David Canon:

Well, right. This is a line they picked up in their minority report as well. Where they went back and they had quotes from people from like the day after the election that we want to impeach President Trump. So clearly, in the Democratic Caucus, there’s plenty of hatred for the president. But Nancy Pelosi reacted very strongly against that yesterday and said that no, it’s not about hatred at all. It’s their Constitutional duty to do this. And that’s something that she was very clear early on that she had no desire to impeach the president. It was only after the phone call with Zelensky that she felt like they had to go ahead with this.

Frederica Freyberg:

Meanwhile, you came into our studio today with a quote from the Federalist Papers and we have that up on our screen. Describe why you brought it in and then read it for us.

David Canon:

Right, so this is from Federalist Paper 65, written by Alexander Hamilton. This is the famous Federalist Paper that defines for the founders what they meant by impeachment. They defined it as a political act that would be defined by Congress, not a legal one, and as an abuse of public power by the, by an office holder. But the part that is not really talked about as much — so everyone’s been quoting that, those lines from Hamilton. But what hasn’t been quoted in the last week or so that I’ve seen anyway was where he connects this to politics today and how divisive politics could lead to undermining the duty of senators who are serving as the jurors in the trial. So this is what he says. In many cases, it, meaning the impeachment process, will connect itself with the pre-existing factions and will enlist all of the animosities, partialities, influence and interest on one side or the other. And in such cases, there will also be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated more by the comparative strength of the parties than by the real demonstrations of innocence or guilt. So Hamilton is warning us. Be careful about the factions, about parties and don’t get stuck in your partisan side of this debate, but be really compelled by the evidence of innocence or guilt. I think that’s a strong reminder not just to the senators who’ll be serving as jurors in this case, but to the American public as well. It seems to be so locked in to their partisan views on this and just really don’t seem to be necessarily paying attention to the evidence before them.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Professor Canon, thanks very much.

David Canon:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now to election news and a controversy over voting rolls. Nearly a quarter million Wisconsin voters this fall got letters asking whether they had moved under provisions of the National Election Registration Information Center, or ERIC. If those voters don’t respond, they get removed from the voting rolls. The State Elections Commission plans to purge the unresponsive voters after April 2021. But a lawsuit filed last month seeks to remove the voters 30 days after receipt of the mailing. In the midst of all of this, the commission is asking the state Legislature to establish specific procedures or grant election officials rule-making authority to decide. These legal questions around voter eligibility come less than a year from the presidential election that has Wisconsin pegged as the most important electorate in the nation. The chair of the Wisconsin Elections Commission is Dean Knudson and he joins us now from New Richmond. Thanks very much for being here.

Dean Knudson:

Glad to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

So, again, the Elections Commission would maintain the voters who got the movers mailing on the active poll list until after the April 2021 election. Why so long?

Dean Knudson:

Well, the 2015 law that made Wisconsin a member of ERIC provided no specific direction or authority to the commission for how we would handle these voters that are identified as possibly moved. The movers’ list has been now handled by administrative policy set by the Elections Commission. We’ve decided that this year we sent these over 200,000 postcards. If anyone received one of those, they should go to myvotewi.gov and review and correct their registration as needed. But without any statutory direction or authority, we’ve come up with a system where after that mailing is received, these voters will still be able to come to the polls, but when they arrive to vote, their spot on the poll list will be demarcated that says they’re on that movers’ list. They’ll be asked, did you move? And told that by voting and by signing that poll list that they are affirming that they have not moved and they still live at that address. We feel like this completely complies with all state laws. Very confident in that. And I think it will provide uniformity across the state, which is something we didn’t have in 2017 when some local officials used their local control and prerogative to want to reactivate the voters that had been inactivated on the movers’ list.

Frederica Freyberg:

But meanwhile, this lawsuit against the commission would deactivate such voters after 30 days. Is there something wrong with that, in your mind?

Dean Knudson:

Well, I’m pretty confident that the lawsuit — that the commission has followed the law. The will lawsuit claims that the commission has the authority and a mandate to inactivate, but we don’t find either of those in the statutes. For four-year voter maintenance, sections one and two of the law you referenced deal with that and specifically say that there will be a mailing. After 30 days, they’re inactivated. Section three doesn’t mention the Elections Commission at all. It only gives that authority to the local clerks to do inactivation. So because we tried to do it that way in 2017, it wouldn’t hold up. We need something that’s uniform. And we really need guidance from the Legislature.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, meanwhile, the group that’s filed the lawsuit says that the Elections Commission is putting Wisconsin’s election integrity at risk. Is what you’re doing likely to lead to fraudulent voting?

Dean Knudson:

So everyone that’s on that list is a registered voter. When they arrive at the poll, they won’t vote unless they affirm and swear by signing that poll list that they still live at that address where they’re registered. In most cases, they actually did move. And in 2017, we found that the false positive match rate ran around 6% to 7%. This time, we expect maybe it will be down to 3% or something in that neighborhood. Time will tell. So far, since the mailing went out, about a half a percent have gone in and said, hey, we do actually still live here. We were a false positive match on the ERIC list match. This is why it would be so helpful to have specific statutory guidelines and authority, which we don’t have. This isn’t the only area, Frederica. The 2015 law also didn’t deal with another part of ERIC, which deals with when ERIC finds that a voter may have voted in two different states in the same election, the 2015 law was completely silent on that as well. The Elections Commission has decided that when we get evidence that that may have happened, we’re going to look through that evidence and make criminal referrals when the evidence supports that. We will not tolerate voter fraud in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Haven’t you heard from the Legislature on this and they’ve said, yeah, go ahead and follow the statute that the lawsuit cites?

Dean Knudson:

Well, I received a letter yesterday from the two original co-authors of the 2015 bill, two state senators, saying that, well, you should follow the section of the law that deals with the four-year list maintenance. But this isn’t four-year list maintenance. And so we really do need to have the Legislature get involved. In absence of that, I welcome personally — not speaking for the commission, but personally as one member of the commission, I welcome the lawsuit if it will help bring clarity. But I suspect it will not because I think the judge will look at the letter of the law and say, hey, you have no authority right now to do that inactivation.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We need to leave it there. There is a court hearing on this next Friday. Dean Knudson, thanks very much for joining us.

Dean Knudson:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

As mentioned, a lawsuit filed against the Elections Commission last month seeks to remove unresponsive voters 30 days after receipt of the mailing. The lawsuit was filed by the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty. Rick Esenberg is the president and general counsel of the Institute. He joins us from Milwaukee. Thanks very much for doing so.

Rick Esenberg:

Thank you for having me on.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why did you file a lawsuit to deactivate voters who receive this “movers mailing” and don’t act after 30 days?

Rick Esenberg:

This is really about following the law. The Legislature has decided that it’s important for our voter rolls to be accurate, both for purposes of efficient election administration and for the prevention and the possibility of fraud. So it has told the Wisconsin Election Commission that if it has reliable evidence that someone has moved from the address at which they’re registered, that there’s a procedure to be followed. These individuals are to be sent a postcard. If they don’t return the postcard within 30 days, their registration is deactivated. This doesn’t mean they can’t vote, because here in Wisconsin, of course, you have same-day registration. And so if someone goes to the polls to vote and they’re not registered, they can re-register and cast a ballot.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the Elections Commission, as we know, wanted to give these people until April 2021. What’s the danger of keeping voters active even if they have to re-register at the polls?

Rick Esenberg:

Well, I think there are two things. First of all, the determination of how you should go about maintaining the rolls and when you should deactivate someone’s registration is a determination for the Legislature. And the Legislature has passed a law which specifies this period of removal for failure to return a postcard. If we don’t like that, administrative agencies like the Election Commission can’t simply ignore that. They would have to go to the Legislature and ask them to change the law. So the first concern is rule of law. Now, I think the reason that the Legislature has done this is that over time — and this is not a problem only in Wisconsin, but nationally — our voter rolls have become quite inaccurate. You know, there are estimates that one in eight registrations are outdated. This creates problems with election administration, and it also creates the potential for fraud, in the sense that there are many people who are listed as being registered at a particular address who can request absentee ballots or absentee ballots can be requested in their name. So our Legislature has determined that we ought to do what we can, take reasonable steps to ensure that the rolls are accurate.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let me talk about that statute for a minute, which you cite, which says if the elector no longer resides in the municipality or fails to apply for the continuation of registration within 30 days of the date the notice is mailed, the clerk or board of election commissioners shall change the elector’s registration from eligible to ineligible status. But the commission tells me that that statute applies to municipal clerks and the city of Milwaukee and doesn’t define reliable information about address changes. What about that argument?

Rick Esenberg:

There are two issues there. One is the applicability of the statute. Now, the Legislature enacted and deputized the Wisconsin Election Commission to maintain a statewide registration list a number of years ago. And it is nonsensical to suppose that the Legislature, having given this responsibility to the Wisconsin Election Commission, doesn’t intend that the Election Commission comply with all the various obligations that are imposed on election officials in maintaining that roll. So essentially for the Election Commission to say that the law doesn’t apply to them means that they have somehow exempted themselves from everything that the statute says about how those rolls are to be maintained.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let me just cut in here a minute and ask what you think of having the Legislature weigh in on this now and offer guidance on specific procedures as the Elections Commission is now seeking in the midst of all of this?

Rick Esenberg:

Right. In the midst of all this, the Election Commission has informed the court that they’re going to ask the Legislature for guidance. The Legislature provided that guidance yesterday and told the Election Commission that the law couldn’t be clearer. That they ought to follow the law as it’s been written until such time as the Legislature changed it. I don’t think it’s wrong to impose some obligation on voters to respond to a notification like this. And, again, if they don’t respond in the notification, because we have same-day registration, they won’t be denied the opportunity to vote. They’ll simply have to re-register at the polls. Because we have photo ID, virtually every voter will have the documentation necessary to re-register.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We need to leave it there. Rick Esenberg, thanks very much.

Rick Esenberg:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin is now home to a national organization’s flagship safe house for survivors of sex trafficking. In tonight’s inside look, why such housing is so badly needed and what the house will offer. We check in with Selah Freedom President and CEO, Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good. The mission of her organization? To end sex trafficking and bring freedom to the exploited through four strong programs: awareness, prevention, outreach and residential. Thank you for being here.

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

First some background on the need. According to your website, Chicago is in the top five cities for sex trafficking and Milwaukee has been deemed the “Harvard for pimps.” What does that Milwaukee designation mean?

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

Isn’t that crazy? I don’t — it’s, it’s something that — a stat that was out there that this is a place that pimps will come to learn because some cities are much more advanced on finding and clearing out trafficking or some areas that they say we don’t bring girls here. Law enforcement’s all over us. So maybe there’s been a gap in Milwaukee but the great thing that we can say is we were excited to see that stat because we’ve opened this amazing home and we will turn Wisconsin into a solution center. Because vulnerable children are everywhere. I don’t think people realize that sex trafficking is not “Taken” or in Indonesia only, but rather kids in every zip code right here in our Midwest. I’m from Chicago. I grew up my summers in Wisconsin. It’s amazing what’s happening under everybody’s nose.

Frederica Freyberg:

You describe too that that corridor between Chicago and Milwaukee is particularly kind of dangerous for exploitation and sex trafficking.

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

Well, what happens is if you have a little girl and it always comes from someone that was keeping a secret of childhood sexual abuse, so ultimately they were groomed. And they were set up to be used and lied to and coerced. So if they run away from their home and they’re out there looking, so somebody runs to Chicago, traffickers are looking for vulnerable children. It is so textbook. They say, hey, I bet you’re hungry. You need a place to stay? I’ll love you. I bet your parents didn’t know how to love you. And that’s all — they’re like, “oh my hero.” And they’re actually — they call the pimps now “Romeo pimps” because they lure them in. And then these guys know where to go. They move them here. They sell them one night here and they sell them one night here. And back and forth up from Chicago to Milwaukee. Think of all the activities and the sports and the venues that we have.

Frederica Freyberg:

So meanwhile you have rebuilt this safe house and you call it the flagship.

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

Flagship home.

Frederica Freyberg:

Describe that for us.

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

It’s amazing. There was a generous group that donated this home to us. It’s 7700 square feet. It has 20 beds and girls are having services now and it’s going to be full boat — filled up in the next 30 days. And literally it was given thinking it was going to need a quick transformation. There was a couple things that happened and we had to gut it down to studs. So the photos that you are showing, it is transformed. This is the most beautiful. But we do have a color palate, a standard decorating DNA because a girl from the streets, she walks in and she can’t believe she gets to live here. Atmosphere elevates. They can’t go back to the streets and see things the same. We try to make a big impact when they hit us for the first time.

Frederica Freyberg:

When they hit you for the first time, what do they need most?

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

You know what, they don’t believe they’re worth it. We have an outreach arm. So when we talk about the different programs, residential is one program. It is so hard to get a girl, even though she’s been abused since she was 3, 4, 5. She’s been on the streets since she was 12 or 14, sold for sex 15 to 40 times a day. The average number is 20 to 25 that these 13, 14, 15-year-olds are sold and purchases. These are American girls bought by our own men. Literally she is told this is all you’re worth. This is your value. So our outreach team that’s on the streets and in the jails and in the courts between here and Milwaukee and all over the state are reaching out to these girls. We will chase a girl for two years to help her believe there’s more for you. She doesn’t believe it. So coming in to dream and hope again. Then we give them — it’s like restoring a childhood that was stolen.

Frederica Freyberg:

How long can they stay?

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

Anywhere from one to three years. And such a big number of our graduates are on staff. The first time they’ve come into a healthy community. I mean it changes everything. 100% of them get their GED. We don’t get them until they’re 18. So they have been on the streets and abused since they were children and little. An 18-year-old is developmentally still 12. And so it’s restoring. Horse therapy, art therapy, puppy therapy. One girl is like, I could sing. I never knew I was musical. So… it’s beautiful.

Frederica Freyberg:

While you are in Wisconsin, you are meeting with our attorney general. To what end?

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

We’re going there next, straight from here and to share the legislation has been waiting for our home to open. It was gifted to us almost three years ago. No one knew we were going to have to gut it down to stud. So we missed the last legislation who was like, here you go. Come on, open and wanted us to roll right into everything. And now it all turned over. So this is our first meeting to say we’re here, we’re up and running, just introduce how committed we are to standing by his side and the governor and turning Wisconsin into the national solution center.

Frederica Freyberg:

When you say you missed the legislation, was there particular legislation or was it just —

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

Everyone turned over. We knew the last governor and attorney general and they were very excited for our home to open and they termed out before we opened. We’re hoping there’s the same enthusiasm to get into the state budget because it needs to be sustainable. We need a lot of support. We typically have 400 volunteers per market. It takes millions a year to run all of our programs and getting in the state budget would be fantastic.

Frederica Freyberg:

If people need more information, they can go to your website.

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

We would love them to go to SelahFreedom.com. And there’s a great opportunity for matching gifts there as well and to volunteer and get involved.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you so much.

Elizabeth Melendez Fisher Good:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Responding to gun incidents in Wisconsin schools this week, Governor Tony Evers said the state should provide more funding for mental health resources for students. He also tweeted we can’t just accept that violence in our schools is a foregone conclusion and we have to get to work to do everything we can to keep our kids and our communities safe. The governor’s comments came after officers shot and injured an armed student at a Waukesha high school, as well as one at Oshkosh High. A recent special session of the Legislature Evers called on gun control was gaveled in and out by Republicans without action.

And finally tonight, news at the state capitol with a holiday twist. The holiday tree as it’s called by Governor Evers, was lit up at the state capitol this afternoon. The lights showcase decorations sent from students around the state and reflect a “celebrate science” theme as proclaimed by the governor. The tree will be on display until January 2. And that is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.