Here & Now

Here & Now for August 13, 2021

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

Dueling investigations into the 2020 election in Wisconsin is creating a rift between Republican lawmakers, even as Governor Tony Evers vetoes six Republican-backed elections bills. A heated DNR board meeting overrules the state agency to set a higher statewide wolf harvest. And Democratic Congressman Ron Kind says he’s throwing in the towel. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Marquette Law School Poll director Charles Franklin ponders the political future of Ron Kind’s district and shares his latest statewide survey results. Ongoing Republican efforts to investigate the 2020 election, and the hunt for consensus on the DNR board over wolves in Wisconsin. It’s “Here & Now” for August 13.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Ron Kind:

This will be my last term in office. I will not seek re-election as representative of this congressional district come next year. The truth is, I’ve run out of gas.

Frederica Freyberg:

Ron Kind’s decision to not seek re-election in his Third Congressional District raises the political stakes for Democrats and Republicans alike. The open seat adds drama to the 2022 election cycle that will also see a hotly-contested U.S. Senate race with or without incumbent Ron Johnson running again. Marquette Law School Poll Director Charles Franklin joins us to talk about the implications of that open seat, as well as share results from his new statewide poll. Charles, very nice to see you again.

Charles Franklin:

Thank you. Good to be back.

Frederica Freyberg:

So I wanted to start with the news of Congressman Ron Kind not running for re-election was the writing on the wall in that western Wisconsin district for a Democrat?

Charles Franklin:

Well, what’s happened is Donald Trump won that district both in 2016 and 2018, Governor Evers and Tammy Baldwin won it as well. So it’s really the most competitive seat in the state right now, and it’s one that’s been moving in a more Republican direction. For the Democrats, this is a big loss, to lose Kind as an incumbent trying to hold that district. Now it will be an open seat. And with Democrats only controlling the House by about five seats, losing one like this one is an important development for Democrats. Finally, we don’t know what redistricting will do to that district. It could tilt it in a more Republican direction as well.

Frederica Freyberg:

The man who narrowly lost to Kind in the last election, Derrick Van Orden, was just endorsed by Donald Trump. Is that kind of the way of the third in your mind?

Charles Franklin:

Well, I think it’s a mixed picture. I think certainly the third voted for Trump by small margins but consistent margins twice, and the role of the Trump wing of the party within the GOP is a big deal. And certainly developing through the 2022 election. On the other hand, the district has some solid Democratic areas like La Crosse, and so how that develops could advantage Democrats in trying to sort of replicate the successes in 2018 rather than the losses in the district at the presidential level in 2020.

Frederica Freyberg:

That would be their hope. Now, swinging into your polling, results show Joe Biden’s approval at 49%, disapproval 46% of those you surveyed in Wisconsin. That compares to Tony Evers’ approval numbers, 50% approve, 43% disapprove. Those numbers despite the hammering that Tony Evers gets from the other side of the aisle. What is leading to that approval number?

Charles Franklin:

Evers, first of all, didn’t change at all from our last poll, which was in October of 2020, when it was at 50-43 then as well. So no shift for him. With both Biden and Evers, they have pretty strong approval numbers on their handling of the coronavirus. With Evers, it’s 54 to 39, and that’s an improvement from October, with Biden, of course, he hadn’t been president, before in our polling, but his coronavirus approval is 54 to 42. So the handling of coronavirus as much as it is a divisive partisan issue has nevertheless helped both Evers and Biden.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let’s take a look at Ron Johnson’s number. Poll numbers show Republican U.S. Senator Ron Johnson is viewed favorably by 35% of your respondents, unfavorably 42%. Now being underwater isn’t great for a politician who hasn’t announced whether he’ll run for re-election, so what do you think he’ll decide about running again?

Charles Franklin:

Oh, I’m sure not going to try to forecast what he’ll decide. I’m waiting along with everybody else on that. This is some slippage from October, when he was at 38-36, a net two points positive versus a net seven points negative this time. This is the third worst favorability rating for Senator Johnson but the caveat is his two worst ratings were in 2015, 16 months before he ran successfully for re-election in 2016. So I think these numbers are worth watching and see how they trend, but in 2015 to 2016, they trended consistently up through the election victory. I don’t think we should look at these numbers and say they’re in any way definitive for what the 2022 election outcome might be if he decides to run.

Frederica Freyberg:

So Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin’s numbers are close, but at least right side up. Your survey shows that she has a 21% number of people who have no opinion of her, likewise with Senator Johnson, it was 23%, I think. I don’t get these kinds of results in the “no opinion” or “don’t know” numbers in this crazy hyper-partisan era.

Charles Franklin:

I know, and it comes up every time we do a survey. Usually Senator Johnson is in the higher 20s or even the low 30s for not recognizing him or not knowing enough to say. Baldwin is usually in the mid-20s. So both of them are a little more recognized in this survey than they often have been, but it’s still 1 in 5 or 1 in 4 voters who say they don’t know enough to have an opinion about their two U.S. Senators who have been in office since 2010 and 2012? So it is sort of a striking result, but it’s one that’s incredibly consistent over time. I think in one sense, these folks are off in Washington or they’re on national cable TV, but maybe they’re not seen sort of day to day in local news coverage or there are stories about them but somehow that just doesn’t penetrate to the people that are not very, very into politics.

Frederica Freyberg:

I want to ask you about the COVID vaccine status. On the uptake of the COVID vaccine, once again, a partisan split as has been reported. Among Republicans, 45% have at least one dose, among Democrats, 87%. Why is this a partisan thing?

Charles Franklin:

Well, that’s the big mystery, and this is a basic health issue. You would think that that’s consequential enough that mere partisan politics wouldn’t matter very much. But as the issue was politicized throughout 2020, and has continued now with debates over masks or schools and whether school children can or cannot wear masks, this issue has just proliferated. I will note that overall, we showed 68% who said they’ve been vaccinated, and that happens to be exactly what the Centers for Disease Control reports as the overall rate in Wisconsin for people 18 and over, which of course is who we surveyed. So I think you could wonder whether Democrats are over reporting vaccinations and Republicans underreporting it, but certainly in the aggregate, these numbers turn out to be spot-on with the CDC data. So I think it’s reasonable to be pretty convinced that this partisan difference really does stand up, even if maybe it not quite as large as what the data show, I’m going with the data.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Well, Charles Franklin, thank you very much and thank you very much for your data. Nice to see you.

Charles Franklin:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

More than nine months after the 2020 presidential race, that election is still being scrutinized by an increasingly vocal group of Wisconsin conservatives. Reporter Will Kenneally details where the two competing investigations stand.

David Clarke:

We, the people, must never surrender our right to scrutinize election results. And that’s what we’re doing here.

Will Kenneally:

The debate over how to investigate the 2020 election is causing a rift among state Republicans and has spilled out on to the national stage. On one side, Assembly Speaker Robin Vos. He tapped former Supreme Court justice Michael Gableman to investigate claims of election irregularities. On the other side

[chanting USA]

State Representative Janel Brandtjen, chair of the Assembly Elections Committee. She is the standard bearer for the ultraconservative wing of the Republican Party that says Vos is not doing enough.

David Clarke:

Now on the issue of a need for a full cyber forensic audit, this is being thwarted by Assembly Speaker Robin Vos.

Will Kenneally:

Late this week, even former President Donald Trump weighed in on the split. Saying in a statement, “All eyes are on Wisconsin as they begin their election audit. Hopefully Republican Speaker Robin Vos has the integrity and strength Wisconsin needs to support Representative Brandtjen’s efforts.”

Man:

He wants to give us the pretense of an audit but what we actually want is for somebody to look at the machines.

Will Kenneally:

Brandtjen is pushing for what she’s calling a “forensic” audit of the 2020 elections in Wisconsin, after visiting Arizona to witness the review there.

Janel Brandtjen:

Listen, more eyes is better, right?

Will Kenneally:

While there is no widely understood definition of “forensic,” supporters say it means to bring a higher, scientific bar of scrutiny to the investigation. Democrats call that laughable and slam the investigations. Governor Tony Evers calls them a “clown show.” But Brandtjen is all in.

Janel Brandtjen:

The clock is getting tight here and I want to make sure that I’ve exhausted everything that I can as chair to make sure that we can rebuild confidence and trust in the state of Wisconsin’s elections.

Will Kenneally:

Vos defends his own investigation and brought heft to it by hiring Gableman. He also invoked a formal examination of the election by the Legislative Audit Bureau.

Robin Vos:

We’re already doing a forensic audit, so just like perhaps President Trump was misinformed about what we’re actually doing in Wisconsin, I feel like my colleague Representative Brandtjen is misinformed about what we’re doing in Wisconsin.

Will Kenneally:

It’s important to note there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in Wisconsin. Former President Donald Trump’s challenges to the election were rejected multiple times by both state and federal courts, including by a Trump-appointed federal judge in Milwaukee. Out of more than three million votes cast in the state last November, only 27 were identified for possible fraud. Meanwhile, Wisconsin’s dueling investigations are treading into unchartered territory. Gableman raised eyebrows this week when he attended a conspiracy-laden event in South Dakota hosted by My Pillow CEO Mike Lindell. Lindell calls the results of the 2020 election “the big lie.”

Mike Lindell:

Here is Wisconsin. Look at that. 20,000 votes by — won by.

Will Kenneally:

For her part, Brandtjen issued subpoenas to Brown and Milwaukee Counties for access to ballots and voting machines. However, legislative counsel attorneys have advised those subpoenas are invalid under state law. Brandtjen says she just wants to affirm the accuracy of the election results and needs the subpoenas to do it.

Janel Brandtjen:

This is basically trying to — from your records, do you have everything we could re-create the election and get to those final numbers?

Will Kenneally:

Beyond that, Brandtjen says she wants to make a future case for changes to the election process. In fact, the state Legislature already passed a slate of election bills in June that would make changes to the election process, like adding more requirements for absentee voters to request ballots. Governor Tony Evers vetoed those bills this week.

Tony Evers:

We’ve watched Republican governors and legislators around our country work quickly to add more hurdles to voting, to discredit the good work of our election officials and try and cast doubt on the election just because they didn’t win. It’s time for those that have stirred the pot to say there’s nothing there.

Will Kenneally:

Any Republican efforts to change how Wisconsin conducts its elections will almost certainly face a veto from Evers. As to the Vos and Brandtjen investigations, they could extend well into 2022. The Audit Bureau anticipates its report to be released later this fall. Reporting for “Here & Now,” I’m Will Kenneally in Madison.

Frederica Freyberg:

Former Justice Gableman tells reporters that he traveled on taxpayer money to Arizona last week to see the review of ballots there and this week to the My Pillow guy’s South Dakota event as part of a fact-finding mission.

Now to COVID developments, state Deputy Health Secretary Julie Willems Van Dijk says Wisconsin needs to get an 80% fully vaccinated rate in the fight against the Delta variant. Currently 50% of Wisconsinites are fully vaccinated. Governor Tony Evers says the speed of the current surge makes vaccinations all the more important.

Tony Evers:

As of earlier this week, the 7-day average of new confirmed cases has increased 40% over the past week, and it is 11 times higher than it was a month ago. All 72 counties are experiencing high or very high disease activity and our healthcare providers are preparing for the worst. Folks, this Delta variant is no joke. It is highly infectious and is spreading more quickly than any other strain of the virus. We are no longer in the fight against COVID-19. This is now a fight against the Delta variant and all the potential variants that could follow. But Wisconsin, there is great news here, and that is that we have the answer. The answer is simple: get vaccinated. The vaccine is safe and effective. And getting vaccinated is the best way to protect yourself, your family, and your community from COVID-19 and the Delta variant. It’s easy, it’s free, and anyone can get the vaccine regardless of immigration status or if you’ve had COVID before.

Julie Willems Van Dijk:

The Delta variant is a whole new game because it is highly contagious, much more contagious than the original strain of COVID-19. Let me give you an example. With the original strain of COVID-19, an infected person was likely to infect two other people, who were then likely to infect two additional people for a total of six cases from one infection. With the Delta variant, an infected person is likely to infect five people, who are likely to infect 25 people, for a total of 30 cases from one infection. Six compared to 30. You can easily see how this variant will spread like wildfire. As the weather changes and more people move indoors, the virus will spread even more rapidly. If you are unvaccinated and exposed, it’s not a matter of if you’ll get it, it’s when. And we know that people who are unvaccinated are most at risk for getting very ill, hospitalized, and dying. With this surge, we’re a few weeks behind our southern states. What we’re seeing happen in Florida could happen here.

Frederica Freyberg:

Tonight, in the second of her reports on housing insecurity, reporter Marisa Wojcik explores how the court process of evictions and federal rental assistance fits in to Wisconsin’s broader housing crisis, even as the CDC has reinstated a pandemic moratorium on evictions with the spread of the Delta variant of COVID-19.

Paul Burke:

I mean, it can be tough, emotionally tough, when you have, you know, sometimes little kids are here. They’re there with mom and dad and they’re being evicted.

Marisa Wojcik:

Commissioner Paul Burke sees every eviction case that comes through the Brown County courthouse.

Paul Burke:

Most of them, I’d say 90% of what we generally see are for nonpayment issues.

Marisa Wojcik:

Meant to slow down the spread of COVID-19, Burke saw firsthand how the ban on evictions emptied out the courtroom.

Paul Burke:

Numbers-wise, we probably have about 20 or so on today, all told. And on pre-COVID, it wouldn’t be unusual for us to have 50 or 60.

Marisa Wojcik:

Per week?

Paul Burke:

Per week.

Marisa Wojcik:

Statewide, evictions decreased by a third while the ban was in place over the last year. The moratorium expired on July 31st, but days later, the Centers for Disease Control put a new one in place, for counties with high transmission rates of COVID-19, as the Delta variant spread rapidly.

1. Scott Schnurer:

I get calls an hour before the first court date, return date —

Marisa Wojcik:

Green Bay housing attorney J. Scott Schnurer provides free services through Legal Action Wisconsin, and if a tenant does have a lawyer present, it’s probably him.

1. Scott Schnurer:

Tenants would be in a much better position if they had representation. At lot of time — there’s the process, which is difficult when you’re not familiar with it.

Marisa Wojcik:

But most tenants go through the process alone.

Paul Burke:

They will come in and I ask them if they have a legal defense and they say, “Yes, I lost my job. I’ve lived here for two years and I’ve always paid my rent and I lost my job. That’s why I haven’t been able –” and they think that’s a perfectly valid defense, and it’s certainly understandable. And they’re very surprised when I tell them that that’s not.

Marisa Wojcik:

Without a lawyer present, the tenant is at a disadvantage.

1. Scott Schnurer:

It is intimidating to be in a courtroom when you’re not used to being in a courtroom.

Marisa Wojcik:

It’s not just what happens in the courtroom, but the entire eviction process is unknown territory to most renters.

1. Scott Schnurer:

The speed of the whole process is really scary. I mean, it can happen from start to finish in three to four weeks, and the sheriff shows up and moves you out and then you’ve lost everything.

Joseph Fischer:

I’ve been involved with easily hundreds of evictions.

Marisa Wojcik:

Deputy Joseph Fischer in the Brown County Sheriff’s Office assists in removing the tenant, only if they haven’t left when the court ordered.

Joseph Fischer:

When someone truly does need help, I don’t want to be the person just to remove them. I want to at least give them some sort of direction if they’re willing to take it.

John Rousseau:

The emotion and the stress, the fact that these people are going through a crisis of losing their housing, all of that comes out at the very last step.

1. Scott Schnurer:

I think the pandemic really showed the disconnect in communications between landlords and tenants. It’s been either you pay your rent or you don’t, you get out or you don’t get out, and I think that there’s this mentality that you just don’t communicate that until it’s almost too late.

Marisa Wojcik:

Joe Dekeyser owns six properties in Green Bay, and to him, communication is important.

Joe Dekeyser:

You have to have a line of open communication with your client or family and also have patience and the ability to understand things that they are going through also in their lives.

Marisa Wojcik:

Dekeyser says he’s only gotten to the point of evicting a tenant once.

Joe Dekeyser:

In my situation, anyway, it is the last resort.

Marisa Wojcik:

For landlords with far more properties, evictions are far more common.

Joe Dekeyser:

I personally saw it right here in Green Bay, being in that courtroom. Yeah, there were companies that they have a full time person with a folder six inches wide full of eviction notices and went up to the judge and just read one right after the other, just like it was calling out people for lunch.

Branden Dupont:

It’s really used as a rent collection tool.

Marisa Wojcik:

Branden Dupont is a data analyst with the Medical College of Wisconsin.

Branden Dupont:

If you have 70% of your income is going to rent, and you have a large shock, so your car breaks down or you are — your kid has some sort of emergency, maybe they break their arm. You have this decision, right, because you’re already overextended financially, do I pay my landlord or do I pay to fix my car so I can get to work, or this medical bill because my kid broke their arm. Oftentimes what the serial eviction practice is doing is it’s trying to re-prioritize who gets paid first.

Marisa Wojcik:

And hedging what bills to pay first is happening to more and more people.

Cheryl Detrick:

The income disparity has just gotten worse and worse. Look at the home buying market. It has just skyrocketed in value. Which is great for property tax values, it’s great for communities, it’s great for homeowners who are suddenly able to have this equity in their home that maybe they didn’t have before, but it’s not good for people who are either looking to buy or looking to rent, because as those values go up, rents go up too.

Marisa Wojcik:

A recent census survey estimated nearly 78,000 households in Wisconsin are behind in rent.

Cheryl Detrick:

Most people are paying more than 50% of their income in housing. We’re talking about people who are paying fair market rent, $600 to $800 a month, depending on their family size. Something happens. It takes one tiny slip, and they go off the edge and they can’t make their rent. Then they get evicted.

Marisa Wojcik:

Green Bay resident Norma Tucker lived this when she was forced out of her home.

Norma Tucker:

I couldn’t afford it anymore. And my payments started out at $600-plus, and then when I moved out, it was $849 for the payment, and that was more than half of what I made.

Marisa Wojcik:

The moratorium was put in place to address an immediate health crisis but evictions have been impacting health long before the pandemic.

Branden Dupont:

To be in good health, you need stable, reliable shelter, right? First and foremost. But you know, there is a lot of established research showing an association between evictions and a whole host of social determinants of health in the worst health outcomes. For children especially, it’s an incredibly destabilizing experience.

Marisa Wojcik:

A glimmer of short-term stability came with billions of federal dollars in emergency rental assistance. In Wisconsin, the state has partnered with local community action agencies to get that money out. The renter applies for assistance, and the check goes straight to the landlord.

Brad Paul:

In order to make this successful, it really does require buy-in and participation from landlords, communities, tenants, state government, federal dollars. There’s a lot of pieces to making this work. Right now the need is to meet people’s emergency needs and get them stabilized while we figure out longer term solutions for our housing crisis.

Marisa Wojcik:

Norma now lives in subsidized housing, where her rent is guaranteed to be a third of her income, and she’s enjoying her retirement there.

Norma Tucker:

We work puzzles, we have dinners, and it’s just nice.

Marisa Wojcik:

For “Here & Now,” I’m Marisa Wojcik reporting from Green Bay.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin officials are urging residents who are behind on rent because of COVID-related hardships to apply for the millions of dollars in rental assistance that is still available in the state. The U.S. Census Bureau released population data this week that will be used to draw up potentially new U.S. congressional and legislative district lines. Next week Zac Schultz reports on the status of redistricting in Wisconsin. That’s all for tonight’s program. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.