FREDERICA FREYBERG:
AS WE JUST DISCUSSED, THE STATE BUDGET DEBATE IS SWIRLING AROUND THE CAPITOL EVEN AS THE BUDGET’S AUTHOR, GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER, TRAVELS THE COUNTRY ON HIS APPROACH TO A PRESIDENTIAL RUN. EARLIER I SAT DOWN WITH U. W. MADISON JOURNALISM PROFESSOR MICHAEL WAGNER AND STARTED BY ASKING HIM WHETHER THE DIFFICULTY FINISHING UP THIS BUDGET SPLASHES BACK ON THE GOVERNOR AND HIS MOST PROBABLE RUN FOR THE WHITE HOUSE.

MICHAEL WAGNER:
WELL IT COULD DELAY WHEN HE ANNOUNCES. THAT’S THE FIRST WAY IT COULD SPLASH BACK. HE HAS SAID I WON’T ANNOUNCE FOR PRESIDENT UNTIL AFTER THE BUDGET’S ALL SEWN UP. AND HE’S TOLD AT LEAST SOME NATIONAL REPORTERS AT LEAST IF YOU BELIEVE THEM, AROUND JULY 13 IS WHEN HE WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE. AND SOME PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE AREN’T SURE THAT’S ENOUGH TIME TO GET THIS THING LOCKED DOWN. SO IT COULD DELAY THE TIMING OF HIS NATIONAL ROLLOUT IF THE BUDGET ISN’T WORKED OUT, YOU KNOW, BY THE TIME THAT HE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE WORKED OUT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT IN HIS OWN PARTY THAT THERE ARE THESE CONFLICTS AND CONFLICT WITH HIS OWN BUDGET PROPOSAL?

MICHAEL WAGNER:
THAT’S SOMETHING, TOO, ESPECIALLY FOR A CANDIDATE LIKE JEB BUSH WHO’S RUNNING AS A BIG TENT REPUBLICAN, RIGHT? GOVERNOR BUSH WANTS TO SAY, I CAN UNITE THE DIFFERENT FACTIONS OF THE PARTY. AND HE CAN SAY ABOUT GOVERNOR WALKER, IF THIS BUDGET THING STRETCHES ON AND THERE’S MORE AND MORE ACRIMONY ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WITH GOVERNOR WALKER. THEN GOVERNOR BUSH CAN SAY, IS THIS REALLY THE PERSON THAT CAN UNITE THE PARTY? HE'S HAVING TROUBLE LEADING HIS OWN LEGISLATURE. THAT’S A PROBLEM FOR GOVERNOR WALKER IF THIS STRETCHES OUT AND IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM. SO FAR THOUGH IT’S BEEN KINF OF CONVENTIONAL LEGISLATIVE NEGOTIATING. I WOULDN’T SAY THAT IT’S PUT HIM IN A POSITION TO GIVE AN OPPONENT ON THE PRESIDENTIAL SIDE A BIG ADVANTAGE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
AND STILL, HOW SURPRISING IS IT KIND OF THAT THE REPUBLICANS AREN’T IN LOCK STEP AS USUAL?

MICHAEL WAGNER:
WELL, FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT GOVERNOR WALKER, IT’S VERY SURPRISING GIVEN HOW UNITED REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN WITH HIM OVER THE COURSE OF HIS TERM. BUT IT’S ALSO KIND OF TEXTBOOK POLITICAL SCIENCE. THE LARGER YOUR MAJORITY IS, THE LARGER IT IS TO MANAGE. BECAUSE YOU HAVE MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE AND MORE WHO ARE MORE MODERATE. IT’S DIFFICULT IN A LARGE MAJORITY TO GET BOTH OF THESE GROUPS TO COME TO AGREEMENT. AND I THINK GOVERNOR WALKER’S EXPERIENCING THAT WITH SOME REPUBLICANS WHO DISAGREE WITH HIM ABOUT THE UNIVERSITY CUT. SOME REPUBLICANS WILL DISAGREE ABOUT K-12. OTHERS ON TRANSPORTATION. OTHERS ON THE BUCKS ARENA. AND ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE KIND OF HAPPENING AND THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A BIG MAJORITY IS YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, GREAT DIVERSITY IN THE PARTY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
IN TERMS OF HIS PROBABLE RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY, ALREADY HAVING ANNOUNCED KIND OF THE DATE THAT HE WOULD DO THAT, HOW BIG OF A PROBLEM IS THAT, IF ANY? YOU KNOW, KIND OF NATIONALLY FOR HIM TO HAVE THIS KIND OF UNWIELDLY GROUP?

MICHAEL WAGNER:
I THINK IT’S ONLY A PROBLEM FOR HIM IF IT PREVENTS A BUDGET FROM GETTING DONE OR IF A NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS IN THE WISCONSIN LEGISLATURE WOULD PUBLICLY TAKE HIM ON OR CRITICIZE HIM FOR BEING AN ABSENTEE GOVERNOR, IF THEY SAID SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OR SAYING IF YOU’D BEEN AROUND MORE, THE NEGOTIATIONS WOULD HAVE GONE DIFFERENTLY. OR IF THEY SAID THIS IS A BUDGET FOR SOMEONE WHO’S RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. SO FAR, REPUBLICANS HAVE SAID IN THE LEGISLATURE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST ANOTHER CONSERVATIVE BUDGET THAT GOVERNOR WALKER HAS GIVEN US AND WE HAVE TWEEKS, BUT YOU KNOW WE’RE GOING TO BE WORKING TOGETHER. BUT IF THEY START HAMMERING HIM, THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM FOR HIM ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
MEANWHILE, DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL THOSE THINGS ALL ALONG.

MICHAEL WAGNER:
OH YES, THEY’RE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SAY THOSE THINGS ABOUT GOVERNOR WALKER.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
ARE THERE ANY SPECIFIC KIND OF MEASURES IN THIS BUDGET THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SIGNED OFF ON BY THE JOINT FINANCE COMMITTEE THAT COULD BE EITHER ESPECIALLY GOOD OR ESPECIALLY BAD FOR THE GOVERNOR?

MICHAEL WAGNER:
I THINK THE JOINT — THE PROPERTY TAX WILL BE SOMETHING THAT HE TOUTS, RIGHT? IT’S NOT A BIG PROPERTY TAX CUT ON AVERAGE. IT’S A FEW DOLLARS FOR EVERY WISCONSIN HOMEOWNER. BUT HE WILL BE ABLE TO SAY HE’S HELD THE LINE AND CUT PROPERTY TAXES. AND THAT’S SOMETHING HE’S GOING TO SAY AND THAT’S SOMETHING THAT’S LIKELY TO RESONATE WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKELY TO VOTE IN REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES. A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES, D. N. R. CUTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, HE MIGHT NOT TOUT SPECIFICALLY BUT HE WOULD SAY I’VE MADE TOUGH CHOICES TO BALANCE THE BUDGET. AND WE’LL SEE HIM TALKING ABOUT THAT AND HE’LL ALSO TALK ABOUT TAKING ON WHAT HE SEES AS WASTEFUL SPENDING AT THE UNIVERSITY AND WHAT HE SEES AS WASTEFUL SPENDING IN OTHER AREAS OF GOVERNMENT. HE MIGHT TALK ABOUT TRYING TO CONSOLIDATE AREAS OF GOVERNMENT OR TRYING TO FORCE BIG CUTS UPON THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM AS A WAY TO HOLD THE FISCAL LINE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SPEAKING OF THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM, YOU SPOKE TO THE CUTS BUT IN DISCLOSURE HERE, YOU ARE A TENURED PROFESSOR.

MICHAEL WAGNER:
FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS NOW.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
CONGRATULATIONS ON THAT.

MICHAEL WAGNER:
THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
HOW DO YOU THINK ANY OF THIS POTENTIAL TENURE TROUBLE MIGHT AFFECT SCOTT WALKER’S RUN?

MICHAEL WAGNER:
IT’S GIVEN HIM A LOT OF BAD NATIONAL MEDIA BUT A LOT HAS BEEN CONCENTRATED IN CIRCLES THAT LIBERALS TEND TO FAVOR. SO IN HIGHER EDUCATION PUBLICATIONS AND THE “NEW YORK TIMES,” FOR EXAMPLE, THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER OUTLETS AS WELL AND THEY’VE — YOU KNOW, TO AN ARTICLE ALMOST, CALLED OUT THE GOVERNOR AND SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS PUTS THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN – KIND OF THE CROWN JEWEL OF THE STATE IN SOME WAYS, A JEWEL THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE HAVE INVESTED IN FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY – AT GREAT RISK. AND THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM FOR GOVERNOR WALKER. HE WILL SAY THIS IS AN ACT 10 FOR THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM AND IT WILL GIVE THE UNIVERSITY FLEXIBILITY TO DO THINGS THAT THE GOVERNOR MIGHT LIKE TO SEE THE UNIVERSITY DO. FACULTY, MYSELF INCLUDED, THINK THAT THE CHANGES TO TENURE MAKE IT LIKELY THAT MANY PROFESSORS WILL LEAVE THE UNIVERSITY WHICH WILL MAKE IT HARDER TO BRING IN RESEARCH DOLLARS WHICH FUNDS A GREAT DEAL OF BUSINESS IN DANE COUNTY, THE STATE, AND THE COUNTRY. THE UNIVERSITY HAS BEEN AN ECONOMIC ENGINE FOR A LONG TIME. AND ANYTHING THAT PUTS THAT AT RISK COULD BE A PROBLEM FOR HIM ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL DOWN THE ROAD.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
MICHAEL WAGNER, THANKS VERY MUCH.

MICHAEL WAGNER:
MY PLEASURE.