Here & Now

UW Diversity Provost, Student Leader Talk Racism On Campus

BUT FIRST, UW-MADISON IS IN THE MIDST OF SELF-REFLECTION, SELF-EVALUATION AND WHAT MANY HOPE IS AN ACTION PLAN TO ADDRESS RACISM ON CAMPUS. NOT JUST OVERT ACTS LIKE THE FIVE INCIDENTS THAT HAVE GONE PUBLIC SINCE THE START OF THE YEAR, BUT THE CULTURE OF THE INSTITUTION THAT LEAVE STUDENTS OF COLOR FEELING ISOLATED, DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. VICE PROVOST AND CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER PATRICK SIMS DESCRIBES THE ENVIRONMENT AS EMBODING HATRED THAT WE HAVEN’T SEEN SINCE THE DAYS OF JIM CROW. HE TOOK TO SOCIAL MEDIA THIS MONTH TO SPEAK TO HIS OUTRAGE.

PATRICK SIMS:

SPECIAL PLEA TO MY STUDENTS. I NEED YOU ALL TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION WITH EACH OTHER, ESPECIALLY MY MAJORITY STUDENTS. I NEED YOU TO TAKE OWNERSHIP, A SENSE OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR CHANGING THE CLIMATE THAT WE’RE IN RIGHT NOW. IT CANNOT HAPPEN ON THE BACKS OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY WHAT WE’VE SEEN HAPPENING ON OUR CAMPUS OF LATE. YOU’VE GOT TO STEP UP. YOU GOT TO HELP US OUT. YOU HAVE TO ENGAGE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

PATRICK SIMS SPEAKING TO THE STUDENT BODY. ALSO IN HIS VIDEO POST, HE READ ALOUD A RECENT RACIST MESSAGE GIVEN TO A STUDENT OF COLOR ON THIS CAMPUS.

PATRICK SIMS:

YOU [BLEEP] WITH BUCKY, YOU [BLEEP] WITH US. [BLEEP] YOU, [BLEEP] BITCH.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

PATRICK SIMS. THAT HAD TO BE BLEEPED OUT BECAUSE OF THE LANGUAGE. BUT WHEN YOU SAW THAT, WHEN YOU READ IT ALOUD, WHAT GOES THROUGH YOU?

PATRICK SIMS:

WELL, MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS JUST, JUST FLOORED THAT THAT WAS A RESPONSE AND THE WAY THAT IT HAD BEEN COMMUNICATED, SLID UNDER THE DOOR OF A STUDENT. I JUST RESPONDED AS A PARENT. I HAVE A YOUNG SON WHO JUST TURNED SEVEN A COUPLE WEEKS AGO. AND I CAN ONLY IMAGINE GETTING A PHONE CALL LIKE THAT OR HEARING SOMETHING FROM HIM, MY ONLY CHILD, THAT THAT’S THE CONTEXT OF HIS ENVIRONMENT. AND HIM WANTING TO EXPRESS HIMSELF AND THAT WAS THE RESPONSE TO HIS FORM OF EXPRESSION. SO I WAS NOT HAPPY, TO SAY THE LEAST. SO I FELT I NEEDED TO SAY SOMETHING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

DID YOU KNOW, REALLY KNOW THE DEPTH OF RACISM ON THIS CAMPUS BEFORE THESE INCIDENTS?

PATRICK SIMS:

WELL, I THINK WHAT’S INTERESTING IS THAT THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. THEY’VE BEEN HAPPENING. I TEACH A COURSE HERE. I’VE BEEN HERE FOR 12 YEARS AS A FACULTY MEMBER WHERE WE DEAL WITH THESE THORNY ISSUES ON RACE RELATIONS AND ORIENTATIONS AND SO FORTH. I CAN TELL YOU I’VE HEARD PLENTY OF HORROR STORIES THAT WOULD MAKE YOUR JAW DROP. THAT BEING SAID, IT’S NOW THE FACT WE HAVE PROTOCOLS IN PLACE WHERE WE CAN TRACK AND RESPOND TO THESE THINGS. AND I THINK THERE ARE THINGS HAPPENING NATIONALLY. WE’RE STILL REELING FROM 2013, FERGUSON, ERIC GARNER, NEW YORK. A PERFECT STORM IS FORMING AND WE’RE IN THE MIDST OF IT RIGHT NOW. WE’RE DOING OUR BEST TO FIND OUR WAY THROUGH IT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

KENNETH COLE, WE WELCOME YOU. YOU’RE A STUDENT GOVERNMENT LEADER AND FOUNDER OF AN ORGANIZATION CALLED UW BLACKOUT MOVEMENT. AS FAR AS THE CULTURE ON THIS CAMPUS, DESCRIBE WHAT IT’S LIKE FOR STUDENTS LIKE YOURSELF.

KENNETH COLE:

WELL, I THINK THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS THAT STUDENTS COME HERE FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES TO A VERY HOMOGENEOUS CULTURE WHERE STUDENTS DON’T UNDERSTAND OFTEN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES TO ENGAGE WITH A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF STUDENTS. ANY GIVEN DAY YOU MIGHT BE WALKING TO CLASS OR AT A FOOTBALL GAME AND BE ASKED SOMETHING THAT’S EITHER INHERENTLY RACIST, PURPOSELY OR A MICROAGRESSION WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT IS SAID THAT IS IGNORANT AND NOT WELL THOUGHT-OUT THAT MAKES YOU FEELS ISOLATED AND MAKE YOU FEEL OTHERED BECAUSE OF YOUR RACE. ONE EXAMPLE I CAN RECALL, OR A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES. MY FRESHMAN YEAR, TWO OF MY FLOOR MATES IN MY DORM USED THE “N” WORD WHEN REFERRING TO A BLACK ENTERTAINER ON TELEVISION. OR AT A FOOTBALL GAME WHERE I WAS WALKING THROUGH THE CROWD, SOMEBODY ASKED ME WHY WASN’T I OUT ON THE FIELD. AS IF MY ONLY PLACE AT THIS UNIVERSITY WOULD BE BECAUSE OF MY ATHLETIC ABILITY AND NOT BECAUSE OF MY INTELLECT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHEN YOU SAW THE VICE PROVOST POST THAT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THAT REALLY VERY EMOTIONAL AND POWERFUL MESSAGE, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

KENNETH COLE:

WELL, MY REACTION WAS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, LONG DUE. WE NEED THIS TYPE OF RESPONSE FROM OUR ADMINISTRATION. BUT I ALSO CARRY A VERY CRITICAL LENS BECAUSE AS THE PROVOST SAID, THESE AREN’T INCIDENTS THAT ARE JUST OCCURRING NOW. THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE’RE JUST NOW LOOKING AT AND DECIDING TO RESPOND TO. BUT THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVEN’T HAD PROACTIVE MEASURES TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS. THE WAY I SEE IT IS THIS IS A GREAT START, BUT WHAT WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO START DOING IS HAVING A BETTER WAY TO HAVE CULTURAL COMPETENCY AND POLITICAL AND SOCIAL AND CULTURAL EDUCATION ON THIS CAMPUS IN A PROACTIVE MANNER TO WHERE WE’RE ADDRESSING THE ISSUES WITH FIRST-YEAR STUDENTS AND WITH STUDENTS WHO ARE ALREADY HERE. WHILE I AGREE WITH THE SENTIMENTS OF THE VIDEO, I THINK A LOT OF STUDENTS FELT THAT IT WAS MUCH TOO LATE OF AN EFFORT. AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT IT’S PROBABLY DIFFICULT BEING IN THE POSITION OF PATRICK SIMS HERE, BUT I THINK STUDENTS, EVEN THOUGH WE AGREE WITH THE MESSAGE, WE’RE CALLING FOR MORE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ABOUT THAT, PATRICK SIMS, THE FEELING ON THE PART OF STUDENTS THAT THAT WAS GOOD, BUT A LITTLE LATE?

PATRICK SIMS:

A LITTLE TOO LATE? WELL, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE’S ENTITLED TO THEIR PERSPECTIVE. I THINK CONTEXT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT. FOR ME ONE OF THE THINGS I’VE BEEN MESSAGING, AND TRYING TO TALK TO NOT ONLY OUR STUDENTS, BUT EVEN MY STAFF, THAT THERE ARE LIMITATIONS AND THERE ARE CHALLENGES IN HOW WE MOVE FORWARD. SO ALTHOUGH WE’RE IN AGREEMENT, WE’RE ALL CLEAR WHERE WE WANT TO GO, HOW WE GET THERE, THE WAY I MAY CHOOSE TO DO IT MAY DIFFER FROM THE WAY OTHERS MAY CHOOSE TO ENGAGE THAT. SO FROM MY VANTAGE POINT, I WOULD AGREE IT FELT A LITTLE LONG OVERDUE BECAUSE IT’S SOMETHING I WANTED TO DO A LONG TIME AGO. BUT RECOGNIZING THAT OUR ADMINISTRATION IS COMMITTED AND WE’RE HAVING CONVERSATIONS THAT I WOULD BE WILLING TO BET WEREN’T HAPPENING FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO BEFORE I STEPPED IN THIS ROLE, THAT TO ME IS A SIGN OF ENCOURAGEMENT AND IMPROVEMENT. WE’RE TRYING TO MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION SO A NUDGE FROM STUDENTS IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO YOU WANTED TO DO THIS A WHILE AGO? HOW WERE YOU PREVENTED OR WHY?

PATRICK SIMS:

WELL, NO ONE ACTIVELY STOPPED ME, BUT I THINK WE WANTED TO USE PROCESSES THAT DEMONSTRATED WE’RE IN SUPPORT. SO THE DEAN BERQUAM AND I, OUR WORKING RELATIONSHIP I THINK HAS SOLIDIFIED DURING THESE CRISES, THESE INCIDENTS. SO WE’RE TRYING TO FIND THE BEST POINT OF ENTRY. AND I DID NOT WANT TO BE THE SPOKESPERSON, IF YOU WILL, FOR ANY AND ALL THINGS RELATED TO DIVERSITY. SO I WALK A FINE LINE OF TRYING TO ENCOURAGE, TRYING TO CHALLENGE OTHERS TO GROW IN THEIR TRAJECTORY AND UNDERSTANDING OF THESE ISSUES. WHILE ALSO RECOGNIZING THAT AT SOME POINT I MAY HAVE TO SORT OF TAKE THE REINS AND LEAD IN THIS REGARD. SO I TRIED AN APPROACH. AND I THINK IT’S STILL THE RIGHT APPROACH, WHERE EVERYONE RECOGNIZES THEY HAVE TO HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME, SO TO SPEAK. AND WE WERE DOING THAT. AND THE THINGS JUST KEPT COMING. THEY KEPT COMING. AND I REACHED THE POINT WHERE IT KIND OF FELT LIKE I NEED TO SPEAK TO THIS. AND I TOLD FOLKS I’M GOING TO DO SOMETHING, YOU ALL. JUST GIVING YOU A HEADS-UP. AND I DID IT WITHOUT SEEKING APPROVAL. I JUST DID WHAT I FELT NEEDED TO BE DONE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOUR ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN PUSHING FOR UNIVERSITY ADMINISTRATORS TO TAKE STEPS, INCLUDING CULTURAL COMPETENCY TRAINING. WHAT IS THAT?

KENNETH COLE:

CULTURAL COMPETENCY TRAINING ESSENTIALLY IS A PROGRAM THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR NOT ONLY ADMINISTRATION, BUT STUDENTS TO BE ABLE TO GAUGE FULLY THE EXTENT TO WHICH STUDENTS OF COLOR ARE MARGINALIZED ON THIS CAMPUS. AND THE EXTENT TO WHICH THEIR POWER AND WHAT THEY CAN DO CAN HELP MITIGATE THAT MARGINALIZATION. I THINK IN ADDITION TO CULTURAL COMPETENCY WE NEED POLITICAL, EDUCATIONAL — POLITICAL, CULTURAL AND SOCIAL EDUCATION. I DON’T SEE WHY THE UNIVERSITY HASN’T JUMP-STARTED SOME TYPE OF SOCIAL MEDIA OR NEWS MEDIA BY WHICH WE EDUCATE OUR STUDENTS AND OUR GENERAL POPULATION ON THE SIMPLE DOS AND DON’TS WHEN IT COMES TO RACE RELATIONS. YOU SHOULDN’T BE ASKING A BLACK GIRL CAN I FEEL YOUR HAIR. YOU SHOULDN’T BE SPITTING ON BLACK GIRLS IN THEIR FACE AND CALLING THEM THE “N” WORD. YOU SHOULDN’T BE DRAWING SWASTIKAS ON JEWISH STUDENTS’ DOORS. THOSE ARE JUST THINGS THAT ARE UNACCEPTABLE. SO I THINK THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS WE WANT TO LOOK AT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CULTURAL COMPETENCY. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IT AT AN ADMINISTRATION LEVEL, WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT A LOT OF THE TOP-DOWN POLICY WORK THAT WE DO HERE LEAVES OUT LARGE GROUPS OF STUDENTS. YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN ISSUE AS FAR AS WOMEN AND RACE RELATIONS. THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, HERE AT OUR UNIVERSITY 47% OF OUR NATIVE AMERICAN WOMEN ARE VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT. THAT’S A VERY SERIOUS THING THAT WE’RE LEAVING OUT, THAT WE’RE NOT ADDRESSING WHEN IT COMES TO RACE AND OTHER ISSUES ON CAMPUS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

PATRICK SIMS, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WILL BE CULTURAL COMPETENCY TRAINING FOR HIGH-UP ADMINISTRATORS THIS SUMMER. HOW IS THAT EXPECTED TO HELP?

PATRICK SIMS:

WELL, I THINK PART OF IT IS THE CHANCELLOR IS COMMITTED TO HER SENIOR STAFF, HER CABINET TO ENGAGE IN THIS EXPERIENCE. IT’S SOMETHING I’VE CALLED FOR. IT’S SOMETHING THAT OUR STRATEGIC DIVERSITY FRAMEWORK HAS ACTUALLY CALLED FOR. SO IT’S IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE THINGS WE’VE BEEN TRYING TO DO SINCE I STEPPED IN THE ROLE IN 2013. SO WE HAVE SOME MOMENTUM AND I THINK THE STUDENTS ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT TO SORT OF SEIZE THE OPPORTUNITY. THAT BEING SAID, THE NEXT STEP, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IS REALLY AT A VERY PERSONAL LEVEL. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU ASKED THE QUESTION, MADE THE STATEMENT, WE SHOULDN’T — OR WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE DOS AND DON’TS OF SOCIAL MEDIA AND YOU SHOULDN’T BE SPITTING IN PEOPLE’S FACE. I’LL SPEAK FOR MYSELF. IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME THAT I WOULD HAVE TO DO A FACEBOOK POST THAT WOULD SAY THIS IS NOT HOW WE BEHAVE. THIS IS NOT HOW WE COMPORT OURSELVES AS STUDENTS. SO WE’RE KIND OF STYMIED OR I’M RATHER, I’M KIND OF STYMIED THAT THAT’S NOW THE CONTEXT IN WHICH WE’RE ENGAGING EACH OTHER. AND SO THOSE KINDS OF THINGS YOU’RE ASKING FOR ABSOLUTELY ARE FORTHCOMING, AND I THINK WE’RE ALWAYS MINDFUL THAT THERE IS A BACKLASH. THERE IS ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE OR THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN THAT IF WE’RE HONEST ABOUT DIVERSITY, INCLUSION, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT AS WELL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WE JUST HAVE ABOUT A HALF MINUTE LEFT. KENNETH, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO STUDENTS OF COLOR WHO MIGHT BE CONSIDERING COMING TO UW-MADISON?

KENNETH COLE:

I WOULD TELL STUDENTS OF COLOR WHO ARE CONSIDERING COMING TO UW-MADISON, PLEASE DO. WE NEED MORE STUDENTS OF COLOR HERE. WE NEED TO FOCUS ON BRINGING STUDENTS IN AND RETAINING THE STUDENTS WE GET. I WOULD TELL THEM WHEN THEY DO COME HERE, DO AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO BETTER YOUR STUDENT OF COLOR EXPERIENCE AND BETTER THAT FOR AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN HERE AS WELL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WE LEAVE IT THERE. KENNETH COLE, PATRICK SIMS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

KENNETH COLE, PATRICK SIMS:

THANK YOU.