Here & Now

Stein Lawyer On Presidential Election Recount Effort

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER, THE DEADLINE FOR THE 72 COUNTY RECOUNT IS MONDAY, DECEMBER 12 AT 8:00 P.M. THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION PLANS TO CERTIFY THOSE RESULTS IN SHORT ORDER. THE NEXT DAY IN FACT, TUESDAY, DECEMBER 13. THE RECOUNT WAS CALLED FOR AND IS BEING PAID FOR BY THE JILL STEIN CAMPAIGN. MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF IS LEAD COUNSEL FOR THE JILL STEIN CAMPAIGN RECOUNT EFFORT. HE JOINS US BY PHONE FROM NEW YORK CITY AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

MY PLEASURE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

FIRST, WHAT’S YOUR REACTION TO THE LAWSUIT FILED ON THE PART OF PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP SUPPORTERS TO STOP THIS RECOUNT?

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

I DON’T THINK IT REALLY HAS ANY MERIT AND IT WON’T BE SUCCESSFUL AND I CAN’T SAY I’M COMPLETELY SURPRISED ALTHOUGH I AM DISAPPOINTED. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK ALL PEOPLE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT PARTY THEY MIGHT SUPPORT OR WHAT CANDIDATE THEY MIGHT SUPPORT, WOULD SUPPORT A PROCESS WHERE WE CAN VERIFY AND ENSURE THE INTEGRITY OF THE VOTE AND MAKE SURE THAT THERE HASN’T BEEN ANY KIND OF OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE OR MANIPULATION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR LEGAL RESPONSE TO THIS?

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

WELL, WE ARE PREPARING PAPERS AND WILL BE INTERVENING BECAUSE WE ARE NOT A PARTY TO THE LAWSUIT. BASICALLY, IT’S A COUPLE OF PACS OR SUPER PACS, PERHAPS, I’M NOT EVEN SURE, WHO HAVE FILED THE CASE TO SEEK AN INJUNCTION TO STOP THE RECOUNTING OF THE VOTE, WHICH IS RATHER ANTIDEMOCRATIC, I MIGHT ADD. BUT, IN ANY EVENT, WE WILL INTERVENE AND CERTAINLY DEFEND ALONGSIDE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE, WHO WILL BE DEFENDING THE WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSION, WHO’S JUST FOLLOWING THE STATUTES THAT ARE LAID OUT IN WISCONSIN LAW AS PASSED BY THE LEGISLATURE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, HOW IS THE RECOUNT GOING IN WISCONSIN?

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

I MEAN, CERTAINLY THE REPORTS THAT I’VE BEEN GETTING ARE — YOU KNOW, I HAVEN’T SEEN ANYTHING PARTICULARLY NOTABLE OR UNUSUAL. NO RECOUNT GOES PERFECTLY SMOOTHLY, SO I CERTAINLY AM AWARE OF VARIOUS SMALLER KINDS OF ITEMS THAT HAVE COME UP. BUT I’VE BEEN VERY IMPRESSED AS SOMEBODY WHO DOES NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN WITH JUST THE HARD WORK AND THE PROFESSIONALISM OF EVERYBODY WITHIN THE ELECTION COMMISSION AND THE WORK THAT THEY’RE DOING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WELL, THANK YOU ON THEIR BEHALF. EVERYONE, IT SEEMS, EXPERTS, CANDIDATES, ELECTION OFFICIALS SAY THAT THIS RECOUNT IS NOT LIKELY AT ALL TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. WHY THEN DID JILL STEIN EMBARK ON IT?

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

WELL, IF THERE HAS BEEN NO OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE, I THINK THE LIKELIHOOD OF THERE BEING A 11,000 VOTE SHIFT, WHICH IS WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR THERE TO BE A CHANGE IN THE OUTCOME, IS PROBABLY STATISTICALLY UNLIKELY. BUT THE BASIS FOR THIS CAMPAIGN EFFORT BY THE STEIN CAMPAIGN IN MULTIPLE JURISDICTIONS IS REALLY — STARTS FROM THE UNPRECEDENTED ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LEADING UP TO THE ELECTION OF SUCCESSFUL BREACHES BY FOREIGN IP ADDRESSES HACKING INTO THE DNC, HACKING INTO THE CAMPAIGN CHAIR PODESTA’S EMAIL, HACKING INTO THE ILLINOIS ELECTIONS OFFICIAL WEBSITE AND TAKING VOTER DATA, DOING THE SAME THING IN ARIZONA. THERE HAS BEEN A CONCERTED EFFORT BY SOPHISTICATED CYBER ATTACKERS ATTEMPTING TO INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME OF OUR ELECTION. AND THE ONLY WAY TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THAT HAS HAPPENED IN ANY WAY THAT IS RELIABLE IS TO COUNT THE HAND RECORD. THAT IS THE FAILSAFE THAT WISCONSIN FORTUNATELY FOR THE MOST PART HAS, SOME OTHER STATES LIKE MICHIGAN HAVE. UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OTHER STATES DON’T.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

DO YOU HAVE SPECIFIC EVIDENCE THAT VOTER RESULTS WERE HACKED OR ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES COMPROMISED IN WISCONSIN?

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

I GUESS THERE’S TWO ANSWERS TO THAT. ONE IS IT’S A BIT OF A CATCH-22, RIGHT? THE ONLY WAY TO GET THAT EVIDENCE IS TO EXAMINE THE RECORD TO SEE IF THERE’S SOME KIND OF DIVERGENCE. BUT THE OTHER ANSWER — AND IT’S AN IMPORTANT ONE — IS THAT THERE WAS A STUDY DONE BY A STATISTICIAN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN THAT WAS PUBLISHED JUST A FEW DAYS AGO WHERE HE DID A VERY SOPHISTICATED ANALYSIS THAT IS ACTUALLY BASED ON THE FINAL DIGIT IN THE NUMBERS AT THE WARD LEVEL IN WISCONSIN ON ALL OF THE COUNTS AND ASSUMES THAT BASED ON PROBABILITY THE MEAN OF THAT NUMBER SHOULD ALWAYS BE 4.5. I HOPE THIS ISN’T TOO TECHNICAL. BUT IN THE END, THE END RESULT WAS HE IDENTIFIED ANOMALIES THAT ARE INDICATIVE OF THERE BEING MANIPULATION OF THE VOTE IN WISCONSIN IN THE SMALLER WARDS. AND SO THERE IS, YES, ABSOLUTELY HARD, ACTUAL EVIDENCE OF A STATISTICAL SORT BASED ON THIS ANALYSIS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

GIVEN THAT NOT ALL OF THE RECOUNTING WILL BE DONE BY HAND IN WISCONSIN, CAN THE STEIN CAMPAIGN EVER BE SATISFIED OF THE VERACITY OF THE OUTCOME?

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THAT WAS OUR PREFERENCE. AS YOU KNOW, WE WENT TO COURT TO TRY TO CONVINCE A JUDGE TO ORDER THAT IT ALL BE DONE BY HAND. APPROXIMATELY 49 COUNTIES ARE DOING THE RECOUNT ENTIRELY BY HAND. ANOTHER TEN OR SO ARE MACHINE. AND THEN THE REST ARE A MIX. SO AN AWFUL LOT OF THE VOTE, WELL PAST A MAJORITY OF THE VOTE, WILL BE RECOUNTED BY HAND. AND ALTHOUGH OUR PREFERENCE WOULD BE FOR A FULL RECOUNT, AS I SAID, IT WILL CREATE — IF THERE WAS HACKING OF THE SORT THAT WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT OR INTERFERENCE OF ANY SORT, WE’RE VERY HOPEFUL THAT IT WOULD BE REVEALED BASED ON THE RECOUNT THAT WE HAVE SOUGHT AND THAT IS BEING DONE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WITH JUST ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF CALLS THIS A, QUOTE, SCAM BY THE GREEN PARTY FOR AN ELECTION THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN CONCEDED AND SAYS THAT THE RECOUNT WAS A WAY FOR STEIN TO FILL HER COFFERS WITH MONEY. WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

WELL, ALL THE MONEY THAT’S BEEN RAISED THUS FAR, $3.5 MILLION HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID TO THE STATE OF WISCONSIN TO PAY FOR THE RECOUNT WHICH THE CAMPAIGN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR. THIS IS JUST ONE OF A WHOLE SERIES OF COUNTLESS, IRRESPONSIBLE COMMENTS AND TWEETS BY PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP. YOU KNOW, HE’S ALSO SAID THAT THERE’S WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD. SO IF THERE’S WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD, THEN EVERYBODY, INCLUDING HIM, SHOULD BE SUPPORTING VERIFICATION. SO I DON’T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. I DON’T TAKE ALMOST ANYTHING HE SAYS VERY SERIOUSLY, TO BE HONEST.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF.

MATTHEW BRINCKERHOFF:

THANK YOU.