Here & Now

Ron Johnson on ISIS Violence in Iraq and Syria

Zac Schultz:

Now to Washington, DC and the troubles in the Middle East. President Obama is sending US Secretary of State John Kerry to the region to work on building a coalition needed to face the growing threat of Islamic state militants. He says air strikes in Iraq are working to slow terrorist activity, however military action in Syria is yet to be decided.

Barack Obama:

We don’t have a strategy yet. I think what I’ve seen in some of the news reports suggests that folks are getting a little further ahead of where we’re at than we currently are. But there’s no point in me asking for action on the part of congress before I know exactly what it is that is going to be required for us to get the job done.

Zac Schultz:

US senator Ron Johnson joins us now from Milwaukee for more on the troubles in the Middle East. Senator Johnson, thanks for your time today.

Ron Johnson:

Hello Zac, how are you doing?

Zac Schultz:

Very good. What kind of strategy do you want to see from President Obama on this issue.

Ron Johnson:

Well, let's face it, there’s only one leader of the free world, there's only one Commander-in-Chief. The only person that really can assemble the coalition of the willing, the only person that really can help develop a strategy, or lead the development if a strategy, is President Obama. So I want to see him on the phone, I want to see him talking to our European partners, I want to see him talking to the leaders of the Arab states around the region. And just recognizing reality. The fact of the matter is, I know America's war weary, but ISIS is not. ISIS is evil, they are barbarians. Their diplomacy consists of beheadings, crucifixions, mass executions. When they're not conducting those, there are reports that they're burying people alive, and of course we know what they do to women. They subjugate them, they kidnap them, they force them to convert to Islam and then they marry 7-year-old brides. These people are barbarians, they're evil. They can’t be contained. They need to be defeated.

Zac Schultz:

On the issue of containment versus defeated, what does that look like for you? What is containment versus what is a defeated ISIL.

Ron Johnson:

Unfortunately, it's going to be more different than last time. Basically, what ISIS is is they're the success organization to al-Qaeda and Iraq. They numbered basically about six to eight thousand people back in 2007 when we had 168,000 American troops, and that was a tough battle. Now ISIS is 15 to 17,000 people. They spread from Syria into Iraq. They made their aims, their objectives very clear. They want to establish this Islamic state, this Califate, and they want to utilize that state as a base operation against America. So defeating them is going to be very difficult. But it’s going to take every bit of will power, it's going to take every bit of a presidential persuasion to let the American people understand what's really at stake here.

Zac Schultz:

The US has starred recon flights over Syria. Do you support bombings ISIL militants in Syria?

Ron Johnson:

I need to understand what the strategy is, but I am certainly going to be supportive of a decisive president taking action to defeat ISIS, whatever that takes. But let's face it, we do need to press our NATO partners, our European partners, the Arab states in the region that are also threatened by ISIS. Everybody's got to be involved in this. We've got to assemble that coalition of the willing, and we've got to lead from the front rather than from behind.

Zac Schultz:

You've used the phrase coalition of the willing, and the last time that the American populace heard that was in the run up to the Iraq war in 2003, and that's kind of got a negative connotation for a lot of people. Because they didn’t see a whole lot of other people in that coalition that were willing to do what the US did. How do we change that this time?

Ron Johnson:

Well, again, the United States is the world’s super power, we are the world’s leader. And we've seen over the last few years what happens when America doesn’t assume that leadership role. The historic tragic strategic blunder was President Obama not doing what we've always done after we've won a war, leave a stabilizing force behind. Had we done that, we would not have seen the disintegration of Iraq, we would not have seen ISIS rise out of the ashes of the defeated al-Qaeda in Iraq. And so now we've got to deal with that broken Iraq, but it has to be dealt with. It’s not pleasant, I wish it didn’t have to be done. I wish President Obama would have left behind a stabilizing force. But now we have to deal with that reality and it's going to be a long, tough battle.

Zac Schultz:

There are some military leaders saying there's no way to defeat ISIL without going into Syria. Can we use the Syrian President Assad as an ally against perhaps a more immediate threat in ISIL? Or are we still trying to take him out first?

Ron Johnson:

It's one of the complicating factors here. I do not envy President Obama his task. This is extremely difficult, incredibly complex. I hope he's learned from his past mistakes. And so I was just on a radio interview and I told America, pray for President Obama. He needs the strength, he needs the resolve, he needs the support of the American public to do what’s going to be necessary.

Zac Schultz:

Now, we've already got some boots on the ground and I've heard you say that we are already at war with ISIS. Do you want more boots on the ground in Iraq? When we talk about the historic blunder of pulling troops out of Iraq, should we send more troops back right now?

Ron Johnson:

Well, it may be necessary. Again, we're going to have to do what is necessary. But let’s start by stabilizing the situation in Kurdistan, in Jordan, in Bagdad. Let's take an accurate and very clear-eyed assessment of the Iraqi security forces. There are a number of those divisions in Iraq that have proven themselves to be pretty capable in battle, so let’s stream in the advisers. Like I say, we almost got 1,000 American troops and advisers in there right now. Let’s make sure we utilize every asset at our disposal in terms of Iraq security forces, the Peshmerga in Kurdistan. Let’s make sure that Saudi Arabia steps up to the plate. Again, I’m all for having a real coalition effort here, but the only way that’s going to work, the only country that can lead that effort is America.

Zac Schultz:

All right. Senator Johnson, thank you very much for your time today. We appreciate it.

Ron Johnson:

Have a great day.

Zac Schultz:

We asked Democratic senator Tammy Baldwin for a statement on the developments in Syria and Iraq. She told us, I look forward to hearing more details from the administration about the comprehensive and strategic plan they are developing to address the situation.