Here & Now

Racine Mayor Voices Opposition To Waukesha Water Plan

RACINE’S MAYOR HAS LONG OPPOSED THE PLAN AND HAS SIGNED ON TO THIS CHALLENGE. JOHN DICKERT JOINS US NOW FROM RACINE. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

JOHN DICKERT:

NOT A PROBLEM. HAPPY TO BE HERE.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

SO YOU’RE PART OF THE GREAT LAKES AND ST. LAWRENCE CITIES INITIATIVE. DOES THAT INITIATIVE HAVE ANY AUTHORITY UNDER THE GREAT LAKES COMPACT OR IS IT COMPLETELY SEPARATE?

JOHN DICKERT:

NO. THE GREAT LAKES COMPACT IS MADE UP OF THE EIGHT GOVERNORS THAT’S REPRESENT THE GREAT LAKES. NOW THE TWO PROVIDENCES OF ONTARIO AND QUEBEC ALSO HAVE A SAY, BUT IT’S NOT A VOTE PER SE. SO THE GREAT LAKES ST. LAWRENCE CITIES INITIATIVE IS AN ORGANIZATION STARTED BY MAYOR DALEY AND THE MAYOR OF TORONTO TEN YEARS AGO TO REPRESENT THE GREAT LAKES. SO IT’S MAYORS ALONG THE GREAT LAKES IN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA. BUT WE DON’T HAVE ANY DIRECT SAY ON THE COMPACT.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

SO HOW DOES THIS CHALLENGE WORK? WHO ARE YOU APPEALING TO AT THIS POINT?

JOHN DICKERT:

WELL, WE’RE LOOKING TO APPEAL TO THE COMPACT ITSELF AND HOPEFULLY FURTHER ON, IF WE HAVE TO, THE COURTS, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT FUTURE GENERATIONS. THIS ISN’T ABOUT WAUKESHA. THIS IS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF OUR GREAT LAKES. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK OVER AT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE AREAS OF RUSSIA AND THE ARAL SEA AND HOW THAT HAS LITERALLY DISAPPEARED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES TO UNDERSTAND THE COMPREHENSIVE IMPACT OF NOT JUST THIS STRAW, BUT THE 100 PLUS COMMUNITIES THAT ARE LOOKING AT PUTTING THEIR STRAW INTO THE GREAT LAKES. ALL OF THOSE WILL END UP IN COURT. SO WE’LL LOSE CONTROL OUT OF ALL OF THOSE. BUT WHAT WE LOOK AT IS THIS IS NOT ANY SINGULAR ISSUE. WE THINK, PERSONALLY I THINK, THAT WAUKESHA HAS SOME OTHER OPPORTUNITIES THAT THEY CAN UTILIZE THAT ARE ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER FOR THEIR TAXPAYERS AND STILL PROVIDE CLEAN, FRESH WATER. BUT FOR US, WE LOOK AT THIS AS A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH FOR THE HISTORY OF OUR GREAT LAKES, WHICH IS A LIMITED RESOURCE, NUMBER ONE, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU START THIS TRACK AND YOU CRACK THE EGG OF THE COMPACT, SOMEBODY LIKE MYSELF WHO SITS ON THREE WATER BOARDS – A STATE, A NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL BOARD THAT DEALS WITH WATER ISSUES, I’M TELLING YOU THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A DISASTER FOR OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE GREAT LAKES COMPACT WAS THAT GETTING EIGHT STATES, EIGHT GOVERNORS FROM DIFFERENT PARTIES TO UNANIMOUSLY APPROVE ANYTHING WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFICULT. SO IF THEY ACTUALLY DID APPROVE THIS, DOESN’T THAT MEAN IT MET THE STANDARD? AND WHY TRY AND BREAK THE DECISION ON THE VERY FIRST TRY?

JOHN DICKERT:

WELL, THE FIRST THING IS THAT ONCE YOU CRACK THE EGG, THE EGG’S CRACKED. THERE’S NO PUTTING IT BACK TOGETHER. THE SECOND THING IS THAT THE ONE COMPONENT THAT WAS COMPLETELY LEFT OUT OF THE CONVERSATION WAS THE RETURN FLOW, WHICH IS US. WE’RE GETTING THE WASTE OF THE WAUKESHA PLANT, AND NO ONE DISCUSSED THAT. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, THIS WAS REALLY NOT GIVEN THE LIGHT OF DAY. THIS WAS NOT BROUGHT OUT TO PUBLIC HEARINGS IN ALL EIGHT STATES LIKE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO AND REALLY SHONE THE LIGHT ON THIS ENTIRE ISSUE. THIS WAS RAMRODDED THROUGH. IT WAS DONE IN ONE MEETING. THERE WERE A LOT OF STATES THAT WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. BUT WE DON’T THINK THIS ISSUE HAS REALLY SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY. THE OTHER THING IS THAT, ONCE AGAIN, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW THIS IS GOING TO IMPACT ALL OF THE GREAT LAKES FOR THE FUTURE. THIS IS NOT ABOUT WAUKESHA. IT’S ABOUT CRACKING THE EGG OF THE COMPACT. NOW, I WILL STATE THIS. THE GOVERNORS HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW ALL OF THEIR STATES ARE GOING TO BE IMPACTED AND THEIR WATER NEEDS GOING FORWARD AND I UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLETELY. LISTEN, LIKE I SAID, I SIT ON A NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL WATER BOARD, AND IF THERE’S ONE ISSUE THAT IS OBVIOUS FOR THE FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY AND THIS WORLD, WATER AND DRINKING WATER, CLEAN SAFE DRINKING WATER, IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR THE NEXT DECADES AND FOR OUR CHILDREN’S FUTURE. SO EVERYONE IS CONCERNED ABOUT THIS.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

LET ME JUST ASK, YOU TALKED ABOUT CRACKING THE EGG. AND WE’VE GOT A LITTLE UNDER A MINUTE LEFT, BUT DOES THAT MEAN YOU DON’T WANT THE EGG CRACKED AT ALL? IS THERE NO TEST CASE THAT YOU COULD IMAGINE THAT WOULD WARRANT BRINGING IN GREAT LAKES WATER TO SOMEPLACE OUTSIDE THE WATERSHED?

JOHN DICKERT:

WELL, I THINK THE KEY BEHIND THE GREAT LAKES COMPACT WAS TO PROTECT THE COASTAL CITIES AND THE CITIES THAT ARE ON THE GREAT LAKES. WHAT I’M SAYING ABOUT CRACKING THE EGG IS ONCE YOU DO THAT — AND WE DON’T THINK IT WAS DONE PROPERLY FOR WAUKESHA BECAUSE WE DON’T THINK THAT THEY MEET THE TEST — YOU REALLY OPEN IT UP TO EVERYBODY AND ANYBODY. THIS ISN’T GOING TO BE DECIDED BY GOVERNORS IN THE FUTURE. IT SIMPLY BE DECIDED BY COURTS.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

JOHN DICKERT:

THANK YOU. GREAT TALKING TO YOU.