Here & Now

PolitiFact Editor On Fact Checks In State's Eighth District

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IT’S A COMPETITIVE RACE FOR CONGRESS IN NORTHEAST WISCONSIN. THE 8th CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT SEAT IS UP FOR GRABS FOLLOWING REID RIDDLE’S DECISION TO NOT RUN FOR REELECTION. TOM NELSON, THE OUTAGAMIE COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND FORMER STATE LEGISLATOR IS THE DEMOCRAT IN THE RACE. MIKE GALLAGHER, A FORMER U.S. MARINE AND CONGRESSIONAL AID WANTS TO THE SEAT AS A REPUBLICAN. THE ISSUE OF SOCIAL SECURITY IS FIGURING PROMINENTLY IN THE 8th CONGRESSIONAL RACE. A CHECK OF SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION’S STATISTICS SHOWS NEARLY 151,000 PEOPLE IN THE DISTRICT RECEIVE THE BENEFIT. SO THE POLITIFACT WISCONSIN JOURNALISTS DUG INTO SOME RECENT BACK AND FORTH CANDIDATE CLAIMS RELATING TO SOCIAL SECURITY AND PUT THEM TO THE TEST. TONIGHT POLITIFACT WISCONSIN EDITOR GREG BOROWSKI TAKES US THROUGH THEM. GREG, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

GREG BOROWSKI:

HAPPY TO DO IT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO YOUR FACT CHECKS LOOK AT TV ADS THE CANDIDATES ARE RUNNING ON THIS ISSUE. LET’S FIRST LOOK AT THE TOM NELSON AD THAT WENT UP EARLIER THIS MONTH.

ANNOUNCER:

SOCIAL SECURITY IS A PROMISE BUT MIKE GALLAGHER WOULD BREAK THAT PROMISE. MIKE GALLAGHER SUPPORTS A PLAN TO REDUCE ALL SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS TO THE POVERTY LINE.

MIKE GALLAGHER:

IT’S A FLAT UNIVERSAL PAYMENT TO EVERYONE AT THE POVERTY LINE.

ANNOUNCER:

MIKE GALLAGHER’S PLAN WOULD CUT SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS FOR 2/3 OF SENIORS. TOM NELSON SAYS MIKE GALLAGHER IS WRONG. IN CONGRESS TOM NELSON WILL WORK TO STRENGTHEN SOCIAL SECURITY, NOT CUT IT.

TOM NELSON:

I’M TOM NELSON AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO CUTTING TO THE CHASE ON THIS ONE HOW DID YOUR STAFF RATE THE MESSAGE IN THIS AD?

GREG BOROWSKI:

WELL THE PART THAT WE LOOKED AT SPECIFICALLY WAS THAT THE CLAIM THAT HE SUPPORTS A 2/3 CUT FOR BENEFITS IN THE FUTURE. WE RATED THAT HALF TRUE. IT’S NOT A DIRECT CONNECTION BUT MR. GALLAGHER SUPPORTS — MR. NELSON SUPPORTS A PLAN THAT WOULD DO THAT THAT SOME OTHER PERSON HAS PROPOSED. HE DOESN’T HAVE HIS OWN PLAN TO DO THAT. HE SPOKEN VERY HIGHLY OF THIS ECONOMIST WHO PUT THE PLAN TOGETHER. SO IT’S NOT A DIRECT CONNECTION BUT WE DECIDED THERE’S SOME TRUTH THERE AND WE RATED IT HALF TRUE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND SO YOUR REPORTING SHOWS THAT MIKE GALLAGHER LIKES THE IDEA BUT IT IS NOT HIS OWN.

GREG BOROWSKI:

RIGHT. THAT’S SORT OF THE ESSENCE OF WHAT WE CAME TO IS THAT YES, HE SUPPORTS IN CONCEPT THIS PLAN THAT HAS BEEN PUT OUT THERE AND FLOATED BY AN INDEPENDENT ECONOMIST. HE HASN’T ENDORSED HIS OWN PLAN BUT HE DOES SAY THIS IS THE KIND OF THINKING I LIKE ON SOCIAL SECURITY. SO WE FELT LIKE THERE’S SOME PARTIAL TRUTH THERE WHICH IS WHY WE GAVE IT A HALF TRUE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HAD THE AD WRITER’S COPY SAID THAT MIKE GALLAGHER PRAISES A PLAN, WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN RATED TRUE?

GREG BOROWSKI:

IT MAY HAVE BEEN. HARD TO SAY UNTIL WE WOULD ANALYZE THAT. THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS ON A LOT OF THESE IS YOU GET — THE AD WRITER MAYBE GOES A LITTLE TOO FAR TO MAKE A POINT WITH THE VOTERS AND THAT’S WHERE WE TRY TO STEP IN AND CLARIFY IT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. WELL WE’VE GOT ANOTHER AD TO LOOK AT. THAT IS A MIKE GALLAGHER AD THAT HIT THE AIRWAVES TWO WEEKS LATER.

MIKE GALLAGHER:

I’M MIKE GALLAGHER AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE BECAUSE I’LL ALWAYS PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY FOR OUR SENIORS.

ANNOUNCER:

CAREER POLITICIAN TOM NELSON IS DESPERATE. CALLED OUT BY INDEPENDENT FACT CHECKERS FOR FALSELY ATTACKING MARINE MIKE GALLAGHER. THE TRUTH, NELSON BACKED HIGHER TAXES ON SOCIAL SECURITY COSTING WISCONSIN SENIORS $95 MILLION BUT TOOK TAXPAYER-FUNDED PAY RAISES FOR HIMSELF. WE LOSE. NELSON WINS. AND HE WILL SAY ANYTHING TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. TOM NELSON, JUST ANOTHER CAREER POLITICIAN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

OKAY, THE CENTRAL POINT OF THIS AD IS GALLAGHER SAYING THAT NELSON BACKED HIGHER TAXES ON SOCIAL SECURITY COSTING WISCONSIN SENIORS $95 MILLION. HOW DID YOU RATE THIS?

GREG BOROWSKI:

WE RATED THAT CLAIM FALSE. THE CRUX OF IT GOES BACK TO A VOTE SEVERAL YEARS AGO IN THE STATE ASSEMBLY ON A BUDGET MEASURE AND THE VOTE WAS AGAINST THE BUDGET WHICH INCLUDED THESE REDUCTIONS IN SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES AT THE STATE LEVEL BUT TWO THINGS ARE IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND. ONE, A STATE BUDGET HAS ANY NUMBER IN THE DOZENS, HUNDREDS OF ISSUES IN THERE SO THERE BE LOTS OF REASONS TO OPPOSE IT. WHEN THIS MATTER CAME UP AS A SPECIFIC AMENDMENT, IT WAS SUPPORTED BY TOM NELSON. BEYOND THAT THERE WAS NO PLAN TO RAISE SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES, SO IT IS LIKE SAYING THAT IF I DIDN’T GIVE YOU A PAY RAISE, THEREFORE I CUT YOUR SALARY. IT DOESN’T FOLLOW THAT WAY. SO WE RATED IT FALSE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND SO AGAIN, WHAT IS KIND OF THE MESSAGE TO PEOPLE AT HOME WATCHING THESE ADS ON TELEVISION FLYING FAST AND FURIOUS, PARTICULARLY AT THIS TIME IN THE ELECTION STAGE? WHAT CAN YOU TELL PEOPLE ABOUT HOW TO WATCH THESE?

GREG BOROWSKI:

I GUESS I WOULD SAY ALWAYS TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT BECAUSE A CLAIM THAT MAY HAVE SOME ELEMENT OF TRUTH TO IT, THEY ARE LIABLE TO PUSH IT A LITTLE BIT BEYOND THAT OR STRETCH IT OR TAKE IT A LITTLE BIT OUT OF CONTEXT. THERE’S NO SURPRISE THAT SOCIAL SECURITY IS ONE OF THE TOP ISSUES THERE ‘CAUSE SENIOR CITIZENS VOTE. AND ONE SIDE WILL VIEW IT AS A WEAKNESS AND AN ADVANTAGE ON THE OTHER. AND IF ONE ATTACKS, THE OTHER WANTS TO RESPOND. SO THAT’S WHY THIS ISSUE I THINK KEEPS COMING UP IN THAT RACE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THERE WAS A CLAIM IN THAT AD TOO THAT NELSON TOOK A PAY RAISE. NELSON HAS SINCE THEN SAID THAT HE GAVE THAT RAISE TO CHARITY. WHILE SOME LAWMAKERS RETURNED THAT RAISE TO STATE COFFERS. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS THINK YOU WILL LOOK AT IN A FUTURE POLITIFACT?

GREG BOROWSKI:

WE MIGHT. WE DON’T REALLY HAVE IT ON OUR RADAR SCREEN. THAT WOULD EVOLVE ON THE NUANCES OF DID YOU TAKE THE RAISE, ACCEPT IT FOR YOURSELF, DID YOU GIVE IT TO CHARITY? IT’S SORT OF IN THE VEIN OF WHEN SCOTT WALKER WAS COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND GAVE SOME OF HIS SALARY BACK AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT WE HAVEN’T LOOKED AT THAT YET BUT WE CERTAINLY COULD IN THE WEEKS AHEAD.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND HOW IS THIS ELECTION CYCLE SHAPING UP FOR FACT CHECKERS? IS IT STANDING OUT AT ALL?

GREG BOROWSKI:

IT’S KIND OF THE FULL EMPLOYMENT ACT FOR FACT CHECKERS WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT FROM THE TOP OF THE TICKET ON DOWN IN PARTICULAR. I MEAN THAT DEBATE ON MONDAY NIGHT THERE WERE JUST DOZENS UPON DOZENS OF STATEMENTS THAT COULD BE CHECKED. EVERY TIME WE FEEL LIKE ON THE STUMP SPEECHES THEY’RE JUST SAYING THE SAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN. WE FIND NEW STATEMENTS THAT ARE COMING UP THAT DESERVE A CHECK. SO IT’S KEEPING US BUSY AT LEAST THROUGH NOVEMBER 8th.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

GREG BOROWSKI, THANKS A LOT FOR JOINING US.

GREG BOROWSKI:

THANK YOU.