Here & Now

Mordecai Lee Explains Partisan Stalemates In Budget Process

. FORMAL COMMITTEE WORK FOR LEGISLATIVE BUDGET WRITERS WAS CALLED OFF FOR ANOTHER WEEK THIS WEEK AS REPUBLICANS GRAPPLE WITH HOW TO GET THE VOTES FOR PARTS OF THE BIENNIAL PLAN THAT DEAL WITH TRANSPORTATION FUNDING AND THE NEW MILWAUKEE BUCKS ARENA. IN FACT, INFIGHTING HAS BROKEN OUT AMONGST MAJORITY JOINT FINANCE MEMBERS. CO-CHAIR JOHN NYGREN AND ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ROBIN VOS ARE PUBLICLY ASKING CO-CHAIR ALBERTA DARLING TO “WALK BACK” OR RETRACT STATEMENTS SHE’S MADE AND THEY CALL HER DISINGENUOUS. THE PAIR SAY DARLING FALSELY STATED THAT ASSEMBLY REPUBLICANS WANT TO DELAY THE ZOO INTERCHANGE TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE SENATE TO RAISE THE GAS TAX OR REGISTRATION FEES. SENATOR DARLING SAYS SHE STANDS BY HER STATEMENTS. KIND OF RARE FOR THIS KIND OF CONTENTION ON THE SAME SIDE. FORMER STATE SENATOR AND U. W. MILWAUKEE PROFESSOR, MORDECAI LEE, JOINS US NOW FOR HIS TAKE. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

MORDECAI LEE:
THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WELL, SO I MEAN, EVEN AS DIFFICULT AS THE LAST STAGES OF THIS BUDGET HAVE BEEN FOR THE MAJORITY BETWEEN, AGAIN, DELAYING HIGHWAY PROJECTS AND THE BUCKS ARENA, FIGHTING AMONGST THE USUAL LOCK STEP MAJORITY DOES SEEM RARE. HOW SURPRISING IS IT TO YOU?

MORDECAI LEE:
IT’S RARE IF WE LOOK AT THE FIRST TERM OF GOVERNOR WALKER WHEN THERE WAS ENORMOUS SOLIDARITY AND THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE FOLLOWED HIS LEADERSHIP. I THINK WHAT WE’RE SEEING AS OF THIS WEEK IS — I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT THE OLD NORMAL. WE’RE SEEING POLITICS THE WAY WE WERE TAUGHT IN HIGH SCHOOL CIVICS IN THE SENSE OF SEPARATION OF POWERS AND RIVALRIES. SO THIS WEEK, WHAT WE’RE SEEING IS WE’RE SEEING CONFLICT BETWEEN THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND WE’RE SEEING CONFLICT BETWEEN THE STATE ASSEMBLY AND STATE SENATE. AND IN A SENSE, THAT’S THE WAY IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
THAT’S TRUE AND YET YOU TALK ABOUT SEPARATION OF POWERS. IT’S ALL PRETTY CONCENTRATED THERE RIGHT NOW IN THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

MORDECAI LEE:
IT’S CONCENTRATED IN THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY BECAUSE THEY’RE IN CHARGE. TO A CERTAIN EXTENT WHAT WE’RE SEEING IS MAYBE YOU WOULD CALL IT MINUS ONE POLITICS. IN OTHER WORDS, IF THEY NEED TO HAVE 17 VOTES FOR THE BUDGET IN THE SENATE OR 50 IN THE STATE ASSEMBLY, IF THEY’VE ONLY GOT 16 OR 49 IN THE ASSEMBLY, THEY’RE MINUS ONE. THEY NEED ONE MORE AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, EVERY INDIVIDUAL MEMBER OF THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS IS A VALUABLE VOTE AND SO THAT’S THE KIND OF JOCKEYING WE’RE SEEING. I THINK THE BEST EXAMPLE IS THE BONDING ON HIGHWAYS. LEGISLATORS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ARE CONSERVATIVE. THEY’RE AGAINST BIG GOVERNMENT. THEY’RE AGAINST LARGE INDEBTEDNESS. BUT WAIT A MINUTE, NOT FOR THAT PROJECT IN MY DISTRICT. SO YOU MIGHT SAY THIS IS WHERE THE RUBBER HITS THE ROAD OR IN THIS CASE, WHERE THE RUBBER MIGHT NOT BE HITTING THE ROAD.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO YOU SERVED IN THE STATE SENATE AS WE MENTIONED. WHAT DOES THIS DELAY, WHEN BUDGET WRITERS ARE TRYING SO HARD TO GET THIS DONE QUICKLY, SAY ABOUT JUST HOW FRACTIOUS THIS IS?

MORDECAI LEE:
WELL, I THINK THIS IS HEALTHY. IT’S SHOWING US THAT REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE SENATE VERSUS THE ASSEMBLY HAVE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND THAT THE LEGISLATURE ITSELF HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAN THE GOVERNOR. SO I THINK THIS IS POLITICS AS USUAL. WHAT’S REALLY INTERESTING IS THAT THIS IS CONSERVATIVE IDEOLOGY CARRIED TO ITS LOGICAL CONCLUSION. YOU’RE NOT GOING TO INCREASE GAS TAXES. YOU’RE NOT GOING TO INCREASE THE REGISTRATION FEE. YOU DON’T WANT TO DO BONDING. THEN HOW ARE YOU GOING TO FINANCE THE TRANSPORTATION PROGRAM? WELL, YOU CAN’T. SO ARE THEY CONSERVATIVE? ARE THEY ANTI-BIG GOVERNMENT? OR ARE THEY IN FAVOR OF SOME ASPECTS OF GOVERNMENT AND THEY’RE WILLING TO DO, LET’S SAY, BONDING OR HIGHER REGISTRATION FEES?

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
IT DOES STRIKE ME THOUGH THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE COME TOGETHER AND BEEN TOGETHER ON OTHER DIFFICULT BUDGET ITEMS, MAINLY I THINK OF ACT 10 AND MANAGED EVEN WHEN SOME IN THAT PARTY WERE WANT TO SPLIT OFF, THEY DID GET THAT DONE. IS THERE SOMETHING HERE ABOUT THE URBAN-RURAL SPLIT THAT MIGHT BE DRIVING THIS CONFLICT EVEN MORE?

MORDECAI LEE:
IT’S POSSIBLE THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE BUCKS ARENA BUT I’D LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT INSTEAD THE FOCUS IS ON THE WAY THEY’RE VIEWING GOVERNOR WALKER IN HIS SECOND TERM VERSUS HIS FIRST TERM. IN HIS FIRST TERM, IT WAS SOLIDARITY. LET’S HANG TOGETHER. LET’S HELP HIM GET RE-ELECTED. NOW OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS IT’S ALMOST LIKE THEY’RE TREATING HIM LIKE A LAME DUCK. LIKE HE HAS VERY LITTLE INFLUENCE. VERY LITTLE CLOUT. HE’S NOT ABLE TO DELIVER VOTES AND THEY’RE SORT OF ACTING MORE IN A REGULAR FASHION. AND I THINK THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF POLITICS WE’RE GOING TO BE SEEING IN HIS SECOND TERM THAN THE FIRST

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
HOW SURPRISING IS THAT, TO YOU, THAT THEY ARE, “TREATING HIM LIKE A LAME DUCK?”

MORDECAI LEE:
WELL, I THINK IT’S A REFLECTION OF POLITICAL REALITY. IT’S NOT JUST THE NUMBER OF DAYS, LET’S SAY, THAT HE’S IN WISCONSIN OR OUT OF WISCONSIN. IT’S THE FACT THAT HE’D LIKE TO BE ELECTED PRESIDENT. AND SO THE ELEMENT OF FEAR, WHICH IS REALLY UNDERLYING A LOT OF THE CONCEPT OF POLITICAL POWER, THAT ELEMENT OF FEAR IS SORT OF DISSIPATING. AND I THINK THEY’RE ASSERTING THEMSELVES IN THE WAY THAT A LEGISLATIVE CAUCUS WOULD ASSERT THEMSELVES. THEY’RE IN CHARGE. THEY’VE GOTTA GET THE VOTES.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
YOU’VE BEEN THERE BEFORE. WHAT IS GOING ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS UP THERE AT THE CAPITOL?

MORDECAI LEE:
WHAT IT’S CALLED IS BOTTOM LINE TIME. IN OTHER WORDS, THAT THE SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY OR THE MAJORITY LEADER OF THE SENATE MEETS ONE-ON-ONE WITH SOMEBODY WHO’S NOT COMMITTED TO VOTE FOR THE BUDGET AND SAYS, COME ON, TELL ME. WHAT’S YOUR BOTTOM LINE? WHAT HAS TO BE IN THE BUDGET FOR YOU TO VOTE FOR IT. OR CONVERSELY WHAT HAS TO BE OUT OF THE BUDGET FOR YOU TO VOTE FOR IT? AND SO EVERYBODY IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS WANTS TO BE THAT LAST VOTE BECAUSE THEY’VE GOT THE MAXIMUM LEVERAGE. AND THEY DON’T WANT TO BE THE AFTER THE LAST VOTE WHEN THEY LOSE ALLTHEIR LEVERAGE. SO IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE DEBATE IS COMING DOWN TO BOND OR NOT TO BOND. THAT IS THE QUESTION BECAUSE THEY LIKE HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION. THEY JUST DON’T WANT TO INCREASE THE FEES.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
ALL RIGHT. MORDECAI LEE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHT.

MORDECAI LEE:
THANK YOU.