Here & Now

Wisconsin Issues Part Of Democratic Debate In Milwaukee

WISCONSIN’S PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY ISN’T UNTIL APRIL, BUT THE BADGER STATE IS ALREADY PART OF THE CONVERSATION. ONE WISCONSIN-SPECIFIC QUESTION IN LAST NIGHT’S DEBATE CAME FROM A MADISON VOTER, WHO WANTED THE CANDIDATES TO ADDRESS WISCONSIN’S BLACK INCARCERATION RATE, WHICH IS THE HIGHEST IN THE COUNTRY.

BERNIE SANDERS:

WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS END OVER-POLICING IN AFRICAN-AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOODS. THE REALITY IS THAT BOTH AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND THE WHITE COMMUNITY DO MARIJUANA AT ABOUT EQUAL RATES. THE REALITY IS FOUR TIMES AS MANY BLACKS GET ARRESTED FOR MARIJUANA. TRUTH IS THAT FAR MORE BLACKS GET STOPPED FOR TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS. THE TRUTH IS THAT SENTENCING FOR BLACKS IS HIGHER THAN FOR WHITES. WE NEED FUNDAMENTAL POLICE REFORM, CLEARLY, CLEARLY. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, I WOULD HOPE THAT WE COULD ALL AGREE THAT WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF SEEING VIDEOS ON TELEVISION OF UNARMED PEOPLE, OFTEN AFRICAN-AMERICANS, SHOT BY POLICE OFFICERS. WHAT WE HAVE GOT TO DO IS MAKE IT CLEAR THAT ANY POLICE OFFICER WHO BREAKS THE LAW WILL IN FACT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]

HILLARY CLINTON:

THE STATISTICS FROM WISCONSIN ARE PARTICULARLY TROUBLING BECAUSE IT IS THE HIGHEST RATE OF INCARCERATION FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN OUR NATION, TWICE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. AND WE KNOW OF THE TRAGIC, TERRIBLE EVENT THAT LED TO THE DEATH OF DONTREA HAMILTON RIGHT HERE IN MILWAUKEE. A YOUNG MAN, UNARMED, WHO SHOULD STILL BE WITH US. HIS FAMILY CERTAINLY BELIEVES THAT AND SO DO I. SO WE HAVE WORK TO DO. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME GOOD RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. PRESIDENT OBAMA’S POLICING COMMISSION CAME OUT WITH SOME. I HAVE FULLY ENDORSED THOSE. BUT WE HAVE TO RESTORE POLICING THAT WILL ACTUALLY PROTECT THE COMMUNITIES THAT POLICE OFFICERS ARE SWORN TO PROTECT. AND THEN WE HAVE TO GO AFTER SENTENCING. AND THAT’S ONE OF THE PROBLEMS HERE IN WISCONSIN, BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM DOESN’T HAPPEN AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. IT HAPPENS AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

UW-MILWAUKEE STUDENTS FLOODED DEBATE WATCH PARTIES ACROSS CAMPUS, INCLUDING THIS ONE IN THE STUDENT UNION. SANDERS AND CLINTON SPENT MOST OF THE DEBATE AGREEING WITH EACH OTHER ON THE ISSUES, BUT OFTEN ARGUING ABOUT WHO COULD BETTER PUT NEW POLICIES IN PLACE. THAT CONVERSATION WAS CARRIED ON BY CAMPAIGN SURROGATES AFTER THE DEBATE IN THE SPIN ROOM.

GWEN MOORE:

THERE’S NOT THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THE IDEALS THAT THEY SEE, BUT THERE’S A VAST DIFFERENCE IN ACTUALLY PRAGMATICALLY HOW TO MAKE THESE THINGS HAPPEN. HER PROPOSALS WERE VERY, VERY SPECIFIC, VERY ON TARGET AND VERY REALISTIC. SHE WASN’T GIVING US A LECTURE ABOUT ALL THE PROBLEMS OF THE WORLD WITHOUT SAYING HERE IS A VERY PRESCRIPTIVE WAY THAT WE NEED TO GET THERE.

NINA TURNER:

HE TALKS ABOUT INSTITUTIONAL RACISM, NOT JUST IN FRONT OF BLACK AUDIENCES. NO. HE TALKS ABOUT INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN FRONT OF WHITE AUDIENCES BECAUSE RACISM IS IN THE DNA OF THIS COUNTRY AND WE NEED FOLKS TO STAND UP TO SAY THAT WE’RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. AND HE IS — FREDERICA, I KNOW YOU CAN FEEL THAT I’M SAYING THAT HE IS THE MAN. HE’S GOING TO DO THIS.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A DEMOCRATIC DEBATE, WISCONSIN’S LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR REBECCA KLEEFISCH WAS ON HAND TO EXPLAIN WHY SHE THINKS REPUBLICANS CAN WIN THE STATE THIS FALL.

REBECCA KLEEFISCH:

WHAT WE BUILT IN 2012 WITH THE RECALL ELECTION WAS SOMETHING QUITE EXTRAORDINARY. OUR TURNOUT OPERATION THROUGH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF WISCONSIN HAS WORKED WONDERS, NOT ONLY FOR THE RECALL VICTORY, BUT ALSO OUR VICTORY IN 2014. WE THINK WE CAN PUT ALL OF THAT BACK TOGETHER BECAUSE WE NEVER SHUT IT DOWN.

DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ:

IT’S HER JOB TO SAY THAT. WE BEAT THEM EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS AND WE EXPECT WISCONSIN VOTERS WILL YET AGAIN CHOOSE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE BECAUSE OF OUR PRIORITIES. WE OUT-ORGANIZED AND OUT-MOBILIZED THEM IN THE 2008 AND 2012 ELECTION AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO AGAIN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THOSE WERE KIND OF FIGHTING WORDS.

DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ:

KINDA, SORTA.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

FREQUENT “HERE AND NOW” CONTRIBUTER UW-MILWAUKEE PROFESSOR MORDECAI LEE WAS THERE AS WELL, WATCHING FROM THE PRESS ROOM. AFTER THE DEBATE, HE JOINED FREDERICA FOR SOME ANALYSIS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

MORDECAI, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR DOING THIS.

MORDECAI LEE:

GLAD TO.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHO DO YOU THINK MAKE THEIR CASE BETTER?

MORDECAI LEE:

YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK WE SHOULD BE HIGH SCHOOL DEBATE COACHES. I DON’T THINK IT’S ABOUT SCORING POINTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT’S A QUESTION OF WHETHER THE DEBATE SERVED WISCONSINITES WELL. IN OTHER WORDS, DID EACH OF THEM GET A CHANCE TO TALK TO WISCONSIN AND EXPLAIN WHAT THEY STOOD FOR.? AND THERE’S NO DOUBT THAT HE’S STRONGER ON DOMESTIC POLICY AND SHE’S STRONGER ON FOREIGN POLICY. SO I SUSPECT THAT MOST WISCONSINITES FELT THAT HE SHOWED HIS STRENGTH IN THE FIRST HOUR AND SHE SHOWED HER STRENGTH IN THE SECOND.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW, THERE WAS A QUESTION FROM THE MODERATORS ABOUT THE BLACK INCARCERATION RATE IN WISCONSIN SPECIFICALLY. DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WERE RESPONSIVE TO THAT? OR WHICH WAS MORE RESPONSIVE, PERHAPS, TO THAT SPECIFIC ISSUE THAT IS SO RESONANT HERE IN THIS CITY OF MILWAUKEE?

MORDECAI LEE:

THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHY IT REALLY MATTERS WHERE THE DEBATES ARE. BECAUSE IF THE DEBATE HAD BEEN IN TIMBUKTU, THEY WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN ASKING ABOUT WISCONSIN INCARCERATION RATES. AND I THINK BOTH OF THEM GAVE STRONG ANSWERS. HILLARY CLINTON MENTIONED WISCONSIN LATER IN THE DEBATE MORE THAN BERNIE SANDERS DID. SHE TALKED ABOUT SCOTT WALKER. SHE TALKED ABOUT ACT 10. SO IF THERE WAS SOMEBODY WHO SHOWED MORE POLISH IN TERMS OF TALKING TO WISCONSINITES AS OPPOSED TO GENERICALLY, IT DEFINITELY WAS SECRETARY OF STATE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

OF COURSE, THIS DEBATE WAS COMING DIRECTLY OFF THE NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY, WHERE HE SO HANDILY BEAT HER. DID YOU GET THE SENSE THAT SHE WAS PRESSING BECAUSE OF THAT OR THAT HE WAS PERHAPS, AS YOU SAY, HE WAS NOT REALLY TALKING ABOUT WISCONSIN SPECIFICALLY, MAYBE TO A BROADER AUDIENCE, TO THE NEXT PRIMARY STATES.

MORDECAI LEE:

WELL, THERE’S NO DOUBT THAT SHE WAS A LITTLE MORE AGGRESSIVE BECAUSE YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT. BUT SHE DIDN’T COME ACROSS AS SORT OF DESPERATE TO MAKE POINTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SHE’S A VERY DISCIPLINED POLITICIAN, AS HE IS. BUT I THINK WHAT HER STRATEGY WAS IS THAT SHE TRIED TO HUG HIM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ON DOMESTIC ISSUES. SO THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF COLLEGE STUDENTS ARE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT DOMESTIC POLICY. SHE WAS SAYING – HEY, I’VE GOT THE SAME THING. AND THEN HE WANTED TO SORT OF HUG HER ON FOREIGN POLICY SO THAT HE DIDN’T SHOW THAT HE HAD WEAKNESSES ON FOREIGN POLICY. I THINK IN PARTICULAR WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO TODAY WAS TO TALK TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN AUDIENCE AND VOTERS WHO MOST PEOPLE THINK ARE GOING TO SUPPORT HER MORE THAN HIM. AND HE TRIED TO SHOW THAT HE UNDERSTANDS THOSE ISSUES. BUT THEN THE CONVERSATION CHANGED TO, WELL, WHAT ABOUT WHITE VOTERS? SO I THOUGHT THERE WAS SOME REAL BALANCE THERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOU SAY SHE TRIED TO HUG HIM ON DOMESTIC ISSUES AND HE LIKEWISE TRIED TO HUG HER ON FOREIGN POLICY. HOW SUCCESSFUL WERE EITHER OF THEM AT DOING THAT?

MORDECAI LEE:

I THINK THAT BOTH OF THEM WERE SUCCESSFUL IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WANTED TO ACCOMPLISH. HE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN TERMS OF COMING ACROSS AS THE IDEALIST, WHERE HE KEPT SAYING “I BELIEVE IN THIS,”” I BELIEVE IN THAT.” HE TALKED ABOUT WE NEED A POLITICAL REVOLUTION IN AMERICA. THAT WE NEED RADICAL CHANGE. SHE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN SHOWING HER PRAGMATISM. THAT IF HE WAS THE IDEALIST, SHE WAS THE ONE THAT KNEW HOW TO GET THINGS DONE. IT’S LIKE PROSE VERSUS POETRY. I SUSPECT THAT WISCONSIN VOTERS REALLY WERE TORN BECAUSE IT’S ATTRACTIVE TO GO FOR THE IDEALISM, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND WE AS WISCONSINITES ARE PRAGMATIC. I THINK THIS MADE IT HARDER FOR WISCONSINITES TO DECIDE WHO THEY LIKE VERSUS EASIER.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR IN EACH OF THESE CANDIDATES MOVING FORWARD AS THIS CONTEST PROGRESSES?

MORDECAI LEE:

WELL, I SUPPOSE IF WE THOUGHT OF POLITICIANS A LITTLE BIT LIKE BRAND NAMES, THIS IS SORT OF SKIPPY PEANUT BUTTER VERSUS JIFF PEANUT BUTTER. HOW DIFFERENT ARE THEY? AND SO POLITICIANS ARE TRYING TO POSITION THEMSELVES. I’M LIKE THIS. SHE’S LIKE THAT. BUT I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT THAT WE TRY TO STRIP AWAY THE CYNICISM OF POLITICAL MANIPULATION AND POLITICAL RHETORIC. I THINK IT’S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WISCONSINITES HAD A CHANCE TO HERE THEM TALK ABOUT ISSUES THAT WISCONSINITES CARE ABOUT, WHETHER WISCONSIN WAS MENTIONED OR NOT, AND WISCONSINITES GOT TO HEAR THE DIFFERENCES. POLITICS IS REALLY SIMPLE. DEMOCRACY IS REALLY SIMPLE. FOR THOSE WISCONSINITES WATCHING, THEY COULD SAY, WELL, ON THE WHOLE I LIKED, YOU KNOW, FILL IN THE BLANK. YOU DON’T HAVE TO HAVE A PH.D. IN GOVERNMENT TO BE ABLE TO REALLY MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. SO IN MY SENSE THIS WAS A VERY SUCCESSFUL DEBATE BECAUSE IT WAS VERY DETAILED. THEY EACH GOT TO SAY WHAT THEY WANTED TO SAY AND THEY EACH GOT TO RESPOND TO EACH OTHER DIRECTLY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

MORDECAI LEE, PH.D. IN GOVERNMENT, THANKS VERY MUCH.

MORDECAI LEE:

THANKS.