ANNOUNCER:

THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS PART OF OUR “HERE AND NOW” 2016 WISCONSIN VOTE ELECTION COVERAGE. FUNDING FOR “HERE AND NOW” IS PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

I’M FREDERICA FREYBERG. TONIGHT ON “HERE AND NOW,” THE SCOPE OF THE MASS SHOOTING AT A GAY BAR IN ORLANDO CONTINUES TO WIDEN AS CALLS FOR GUN CONTROL GET A FRESH LOOK. U.S. SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN IS HERE. ALSO TONIGHT, ELECTION ANALYSIS WITH POLITICAL SCIENTIST AND POLLSTER, CHARLES FRANKLIN WHO HAS HIS LATEST SURVEY RESULTS. AND STATE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ROBIN VOS JOINS US TO TALK THE HIGH COST OF HIGHWAYS. BUT FIRST,

AT A PBS TOWN HALL ON GUN VIOLENCE EARLIER THIS MONTH, PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA HAD PROPHETIC WORDS OF FRUSTRATION REGARDING WHO CAN LEGALLY PURCHASE FIREARMS.

BARACK OBAMA:

I’VE GOT PEOPLE WHO WE KNOW HAVE BEEN ON ISIL WEBSITES LIVING HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. U.S. CITIZENS. AND WE’RE ALLOWED TO PUT THEM ON THE NO-FLY LIST WHEN IT COMES TO AIRLINES, BUT BECAUSE OF THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION, I CANNOT PROHIBIT THOSE PEOPLE FROM BUYING A GUN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THOUGH NOT ON THE WATCH LIST, THE GUNMAN IN LAST WEEKEND’S MASS SHOOTING IN ORLANDO HAD BEEN INTERVIEWED BY THE FBI BECAUSE OF SUSPECTED TIES TO ISIS. AND HE PLEDGED HIS ALLEGIANCE TO THE TERROR GROUP EVEN IN THE MIDST OF HIS RAMPAGE AT A GAY BAR IN THAT CITY. FOLLOWING THIS LATEST CARNAGE AND THE SAN BERNADINO SHOOTING, MANY DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS ARE CALLING TO CLOSE THE SO-CALLED TERROR GAP WHEN IT COMES TO PURCHASING GUNS. AMONG THOSE, WISCONSIN U.S. SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN, WHO JOINS US NOW. AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

TAMMY BALDWIN:

THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW MORE ON THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION IN A MOMENT, BUT NOW SEVERAL DAYS AFTER THIS MASS SHOOTING IN ORLANDO, AS A MEMBER OF THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY, HOW ARE YOU PROCESSING WHAT HAPPENED?

TAMMY BALDWIN:

IT’S JUST HORRIFIC. IT’S SIMPLY HORRIFIC. I JUXTAPOSE THE OPPORTUNITY TO KICK OFF PRIDE FEST IN MILWAUKEE THE FRIDAY BEFORE THE MASSACRE AND THE CELEBRATION OF HOW FAR WE’VE COME IN THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY TO FIGHT BULLYING AND DISCRIMINATION. AND VIOLENCE TURNED ON MEMBERS OF THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY. AND THEN TO WAKE UP SUNDAY MORNING TO THIS DEVASTATING NEWS, THE WORST GUN VIOLENCE IN MODERN U.S. HISTORY. AND TO TAKE IN THE FACT THAT THIS WAS A U.S. CITIZEN, INSPIRED BY TERRORISTS, WHO LEGALLY PURCHASED A WEAPON OF WAR AND TURNED IT ON THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY. I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES AMERICA HAS TO WAKE UP TO STORIES OF KILLINGS IN SCHOOLS, ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, IN THEATERS, IN NIGHTCLUBS UNTIL WE TAKE ACTION. AND SO WHILE MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS TRULY ARE WITH THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES AND THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT, THEY ARE NOT ENOUGH, AND WE NEED TO ACT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND SO YOU WERE PART OF THE SENATE DEMOCRATS’ FILIBUSTER THIS WEEK OVER GUN CONTROL, READING ALOUD THE NAMES OF THE ORLANDO VICTIMS AND TELLING THEIR STORIES. BUT ALSO CALLING SPECIFICALLY TO BAN PEOPLE ON THE GOVERNMENT’S TERRORIST WATCH LIST FROM OBTAINING GUN LICENSES AND TO EXPAND BACKGROUND CHECKS TO GUN SHOWS AND INTERNET SALES. WHAT KIND OF TRACTION IS THIS GETTING AT WEEK’S END FROM REPUBLICANS?

TAMMY BALDWIN:

WELL, FIRST LET’S STOP AND JUST CLEARLY TALK ABOUT THIS. NO ONE IS PROPOSING TAKING AWAY ANYBODY’S GUNS. THAT’S NOT WHAT THIS DISCUSSION IS ABOUT, AND I AM A SOLID SUPPORTER OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A GUN OWNER MYSELF. THAT SAID, CLEARLY WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE WEAPONS OF WAR, WE OUGHT TO BE MAKING SURE THAT NOBODY WHO IS ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST OR, FOR THAT MATTER, SOMEBODY WHO HAS COMMITTED A HATE CRIME, IS ABLE TO PASS THAT BACKGROUND CHECK. AND THE FBI NEEDS TO BE EMPOWERED WITH THE ABILITY TO MAKE THEM INELIGIBLE FOR A GUN PURCHASE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SPECIFIC TO THE ORLANDO SHOOTER, THOUGH, WHILE HE HAD BEEN ON THE WATCH LIST, HE WAS REMOVED, SO IT WOULDN’T HAVE PREVENTED HIS PURCHASE.

TAMMY BALDWIN:

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE MASS VIOLENCE THAT HAS OCCURRED IN THE UNITED STATES, IT IS CLEAR THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE GREATER TOOLS TO GET AT THIS. AND SO THERE’S TWO THINGS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN. OBVIOUSLY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE TERROR GAP. I ADDED THAT WE SHOULD ADD PEOPLE CONVICTED OF HATE CRIMES. BUT WE ALSO NEED TO SHUT DOWN THE BACKGROUND CHECK LOOPHOLE. IN OTHER WORDS, ALMOST, I HEAR, 40% OF PURCHASES HAPPEN OUTSIDE LOCATIONS WHERE THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO A BACKGROUND CHECK. AND THAT MAY BE INTERNET PURCHASES, THAT MAY BE AT GUN SHOWS. BUT EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE SUBJECTED TO THIS TIME-TESTED BACKGROUND CHECK.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT CHECKS ARE THERE IN PLACE THAT WOULD PREVENT PEOPLE ERRONEOUSLY ON THE NO-FLY LIST, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM BEING BARRED FROM PURCHASING WEAPONS?

TAMMY BALDWIN:

RIGHT. SO THAT’S SUCH AN IMPORTANT QUESTION, GIVEN THAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, AND THEREFORE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF SOMEBODY IS ERRONEOUSLY ON ANY OF THESE LISTS, THAT THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO FIGHT BACK AND EXERCISE DUE PROCESS. SO THE NO-FLY LIST, WHICH IS A SMALLER PART OF THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST, THERE’S WAYS TO DO THAT. OBVIOUSLY, SOMEBODY TRIES TO GET A PLANE TICKET AND BOARD A PLANE, THEY FIND OUT THEY’RE ON THE NO-FLY LIST. THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO TRY TO GET THEIR NAME STRUCK FROM THAT. AND THE SAME HAS BEEN PROPOSED AS A PART OF THE AMENDMENT THAT WE HOPE TO VOTE ON NEXT MONDAY ON THE SENATE FLOOR.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW, AS THE FIRST OPENLY GAY U.S. SENATOR IN HISTORY, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS CONCERNING WHETHER THIS HORROR WILL UNITE THE COUNTRY STILL IN THE MIDST OF POLITICAL AND CULTURAL CLASHES OVER LGBT RIGHTS NOT TO MENTION GUN RIGHTS?

TAMMY BALDWIN:

RIGHT. SO LET’S TAKE THOSE IN TURN, STARTING WITH GUN RIGHTS. SO THERE’S REASON THAT THERE’S BEEN INACTION IN THE PAST, AND PEOPLE CAN EITHER CHOOSE TO ALIGN WITH THE VERY POWERFUL NRA OR TO ALIGN WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, INCLUDING GUN OWNERS, WHO THINK THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CLOSE THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE AND ALLOW THE FBI THE AUTHORITY TO TURN DOWN SALES FOR THOSE WHO ARE ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST OR NO-FLY LIST. AND I HOPE THAT WE COME TOGETHER LISTENING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE RATHER THAN THIS POWERFUL LOBBYING GROUP. ON THE FIRST QUESTION, YOU KNOW, IT’S SO STRIKING TO ME HOW MANY PEOPLE’S REACTION WAS TO SORT OF GO TO THEIR CAMPS OF COMFORT, IF YOU WILL, AND SAY THIS IS ALL ABOUT ISIL OR THIS IS ALL ABOUT ONE ISSUE OR ANOTHER. AMERICA IS BETTER THAN THIS. WE HAVE SEEN CHILDREN SLAUGHTERED. WE HAVE SEEN COLLEGE STUDENTS SLAUGHTERED. WE HAVE SEEN PEOPLE GOING ABOUT THEIR DAYS, GOING TO THEATER, GOING TO A NIGHTCLUB, WHERE LGBT PEOPLE SEEK TO BE IN A SPACE THAT IS SAFE AND FREE FROM BULLYING AND DISCRIMINATION. WHEN WILL WE COME TOGETHER AS A COUNTRY AND NOT GO INTO OUR SEPARATE CAMPS AND TAKE ACTION? BUT THE ONE THING I CAN TELL YOU IS NO ACTION IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE. SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

TAMMY BALDWIN:

THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ON THE ISSUE OF RESTRICTING GUNS, REPUBLICAN U.S. SENATOR RON JOHNSON SAYS HE IS QUOTE HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN FIND BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION TO ADDRESS A SHARED GOAL THAT WOULD-BE TERRORISTS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO OBTAIN ARMS TO CARRY OUT THEIR ATTACKS. WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL HOWEVER BEFORE USING VERY LARGE CLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT LISTS WITH UNDEFINED CRITERIA AS THE BASIS FOR REMOVING AN AMERICAN’S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

PRO-GUN GROUPS DO NOT FAVOR RESTRICTIONS ON THE PURCHASE OF FIREARMS IF THEY PREVENT AS THEY FEAR LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS FROM BUYING GUNS. AMONG THOSE GROUPS, WISCONSIN CARRY WHOSE PRESIDENT IS NIK CLARK. HE JOINS US NOW FROM MILWAUKEE. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

NIK CLARK:

IT’S A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT’S YOUR REACTION TO THE SENATE FLOOR FILIBUSTER THAT REPORTEDLY RESULTED IN REPUBLICANS TALKING ABOUT SOME KIND OF BIPARTISAN APPROACH TO PREVENTING PEOPLE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST, FOR EXAMPLE, INCLUDING THE NO-FLY LIST, FROM PURCHASING FIREARMS?

NIK CLARK:

YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK IT’S REALLY UNFORTUNATE THAT THE CONVERSATION IMMEDIATELY HAS BEEN HIJACKED TO TALK ABOUT SOLUTIONS THAT WOULDN’T ADDRESS THE SITUATION THAT OCCURRED HERE, NOR OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THAT HAVE OCCURRED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. OMAR MATEEN WAS NOT ON A TERROR WATCH LIST BUT YET NOW WE’RE HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER PEOPLE ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY GUNS OR NOT. I THINK THAT’S TOTALLY IRRELEVANT BECAUSE HE WASN’T ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST. I’D LIKE TO SEE SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS. UNFORTUNATELY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT A PROPOSED SOLUTION THAT WOULDN’T SOLVE THE PROBLEM AT ALL AND THAT’S UNFORTUNATE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT KINDS OF SOLUTIONS COULD YOU IMAGINE THAT WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THE ORLANDO MASSACRE?

NIK CLARK:

THE FIRST THING I THINK THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SHOULD BE DOING AND POLITICIANS INSTEAD OF EVERY TIME THERE’S A TERRORIST ATTACK OR ANY MASS SHOOTING REHASHING THE SAME OLD GUN CONTROL MEASURES, I THINK THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WE SHOULD BE ASKING WHY DIDN’T THE FBI — BECAUSE THE FBI DID HAVE THIS GUY ON A WATCH LIST AT ONE TIME, TWICE, IN 2013 AND 2014, JUST LIKE THEY HAD THE BOSTON BOMBERS, THE MARATHON BOMBERS IN BOSTON ON THEIR WATCH LIST AND THEY WERE OFF. THE SAN BERNADINO TERRORISTS, THEY WERE NEVER ON A WATCH LIST. SO I THINK THE FIRST QUESTION WE SHOULD ASK IS WHY HAS THE FBI TERROR WATCH LIST FAILED SO MISERABLY? ONCE WE START ASKING THAT QUESTION, THEN WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THE TERRORISM ASPECT OF THIS. BUT THE SOLUTION THAT I SEE IS TIME AND TIME AGAIN — AND THIS IS WHAT I SHARE WITH MEMBERS. AND WE HAVE CONSTITUENTS IN OUR ORGANIZATION OF EVERY WALK OF LIFE, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, THE LGBT COMMUNITY. WE HAVE A HUGE NUMBER OF MEMBERS OF THE LGBT–HUNDREDS OF MEMBERS OF OUR ORGANIZATION ARE MEMBERS OF THE LGBT COMMUNITY. THEY UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN EVERYTHING ELSE FAILS, WHEN THE FBI FAILS, WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FAILS TO KEEP US SAFE, WHEN POLICE CAN’T KEEP YOU SAFE BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT EVERYWHERE, THAT YOU’RE THE ONLY PERSON, AND SO WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT EMPOWERING PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES IF THEY CHOOSE TO AND THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ABOUT THE PROPOSALS, THOUGH, TO RESTRICT THE PURCHASE OF GUNS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST? WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THAT LEGISLATION?

NIK CLARK:

WELL, AS WE’VE SEEN AS AN EXAMPLE WITH THE IRS, EVERYTHING IN WASHINGTON D.C. BECOMES POLITICAL AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE USED FOR POLITICAL — YOU KNOW, TO MAKE LIFE DIFFICULT FOR POLITICAL ENEMIES WITH SAW WITH THE IRS. MY CONCERN IS HARRY REID, THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, HE’S A LEADERSHIP POSITION WITH THE DEMOCRATS, HE’S REFERRED TO PEOPLE IN HIS HOME STATE, RANCHERS WHO PROTESTED THE GOVERNMENT POLICY, HE’S REFERRED TO THEM AS DOMESTIC TERRORISTS. THERE’S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THOSE ARE INDIVIDUALS — WITH A PHONE CALL. BECAUSE HOW DO PEOPLE GET ON THE WATCH LIST? THE GOVERNMENT JUST DECIDES. SOMEONE MAKES A PHONE CALL AND DECIDES TO PUT THEM ON THERE. I DON’T WANT TO SEE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS STUCK ON A TERROR WATCH LIST AND HAVE THEIR RIGHTS DENIED. AND I BELIEVE NOT JUST IS THAT LIKELY TO HAPPEN, IT’S VIRTUALLY ASSURED TO HAPPEN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO YOU THINK PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST SHOULD BE ABLE TO PURCHASE GUNS?

NIK CLARK:

I THINK THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST HAS FAILED SO MISERABLY THAT IT SHOULDN’T BE A MEASURE OF WHO CAN AND CAN’T PURCHASE A GUN. BECAUSE THERE’S NO DUE PROCESS. WITH A PHONE CALL FROM ONE GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRAT TO ANOTHER, SOMEONE COULD BE PLACED ON A TERROR WATCH LIST. THEY DON’T KNOW THEY’RE ON THERE UNTIL THEY PERHAPS GO TO BUY A WEAPON AND THEY’RE TURNED DOWN. IF THE FBI WANTS TO INVESTIGATE PEOPLE AND THEY HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE. IF THERE’ PROBABLE CAUSE THAT SOMEONE IS, HAS OR IS ABOUT TO COMMIT A CRIME, THAT’S PROBABLE CAUSE TO ARREST. WITHOUT PROBABLY CAUSE, THERE’S NO REASON TO DENY SOMEONE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. IF I THOUGHT THERE WERE ANGELS EXISTING IN GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THAT WOULD NEVER USE THESE FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES OR STICK LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS WHO JUST DISAGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENT ON THESE LISTS, I WOULD HAVE LESS CONCERN BUT WE KNOW THAT HASN’T HAPPENED IN THE PAST. THAT IS MY CONCERN. WE DON’T KNOW WHO’S ON IT NOW. AND WE KNOW THAT IT’S A GOVERNMENT WISH THAT THEY COULD JUST WITH A PHONE CALL TAKE AWAY SOMEONE’S RIGHTS WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT THIS TERRORIST WATCH LIST WOULD DO. IF THE FBI WANTS TO INVESTIGATE PEOPLE, IF THEY WANT THIS TERRORIST WATCH LIST, I’D LIKE TO SEE SOME DEMONSTRATIONS THAT THIS HAS SUCCEEDED AND I DON’T SEE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT IT HAS. IN FACK IT’S FAILED THREE TIMES. IT FAILED IN BOSTON. IT FAILED IN SAN BERNADINO AND IT FAILED IN FLORIDA. BUT WITHOUT QUESTION I THINK WHAT WE SEE IS THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THIS BEING USED FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES AND WHO KNOWS WHO MIGHT GET STUCK ON THERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE. NIK CLARK, THANKS VERY MUCH.

NIK CLARK:

IT’S A PLEASURE. THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IN THE MIDST OF POLITICAL AND CULTURAL CLASHES OVER LGBT RIGHTS AND JUST DAYS AFTER THE ORLANDO MASS SHOOTING THAT TARGETED A GAY BAR, AN EVANGELICAL MINISTER BROUGHT HIS POLITICAL MESSAGE TO MADISON THIS WEEK AS PART OF A NATIONWIDE TOUR. THE RALLY BROUGHT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO THE CAPITOL. REPORTER TREVOR KELLER WAS THERE.

TREVOR KELLER:

REVEREND FRANKLIN GRAHAM, SON OF EVANGELIST BILLY GRAHAM, STOPPED IN MADISON WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON ON HIS “DECISION AMERICA” TOUR.

FRANKLIN GRAHAM:

I HAVE NO HOPE IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. ZERO. OKAY. AND BEFORE YOU REPUBLICANS START HIGH-FIVING EACH OTHER, I HAVE ZERO HOPE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. THE ONLY HOPE, THE ONLY HOPE, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IS ALL MIGHTY GOD.

[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]

TREVOR KELLER:

GRAHAM IS VISITING ALL 50 STATE CAPITOLS TO ENCOURAGE CHRISTIANS TO BECOME MORE INVOLVED IN POLITICS. THOUSANDS CAME TO HEAR GRAHAM’S SPEECH, INCLUDING TOM HARRISON FROM FENCE IN NORTHEAST WISCONSIN.

TOM HARRISON:

OUR HISTORY WOULD GIVE EVIDENCE TO THAT A LOT OF THE LEADERS IN THE PAST WERE CHRISTIANS OR LOOKED TO THE BIBLE FOR ANSWERS OF LIFE. THAT’S WHERE WE NEED TO LOOK.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

GRAHAM HAS DENOUNCED SAME-SEX MARRIAGE AND CALLED FOR A BAN ON MUSLIM IMMIGRATION TO THE U.S.

FRANKLIN GRAHAM:

LET US PRAY.

TREVOR KELLER:

GRAHAM BEGAN THE RALLY WITH A PRAYER FOR THE VICTIMS, BUT OTHERWISE AVOIDED THE TOPIC FOCUSING ON THE FALL ELECTION.

FRANKLIN GRAHAM:

WE CAN GO BACK TO WASHINGTON AND GET THAT BACK. AND IT CAN HAPPEN. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I’M TALKING ABOUT A REVOLUTION FOR GOD FROM ONE END OF THIS COUNTRY TO THE OTHER.

TREVOR KELLER:

AT THE EDGE OF THE RALLY, HUNDREDS PROTESTED GRAHAM’S SPEECH, SAYING HIS BELIEFS ARE DIVISIVE.

KAREN QUINLAN:

I THINK HIS MESSAGE IS EXCLUSIVE. I THINK HE HAS SOME GOOD POINTS THAT WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND PRAY FOR HEALING OF OUR NATION, BUT I THINK OUR NATION INCLUDES ALL OF US AND NOT JUST THE FOLKS THAT HE BELIEVES ARE FORGIVEN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THAT WAS TREVOR KELLER REPORTING.

THE LATEST NUMBERS FROM THE MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL POLL SHOW RUSS FEINGOLD AND HILLARY CLINTON AHEAD IN WISCONSIN, BUT ALSO INCLUDE THE FACT THAT AN UNUSUALLY HIGH NUMBER OF VOTERS IN BOTH PARTIES SAY THEY’LL VOTE FOR NEITHER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. MUCH MORE NOW ON THE RESULTS FROM POLL DIRECTOR CHARLES FRANKLIN. CHARLES, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

GOOD TO BE HERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THE OTHER THING THAT WAS SURPRISING WAS THAT BERNIE SANDERS HAS THE HIGHEST FAVORABILITY AMONG CANDIDATES. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THE HIGH NEGATIVES FOR THE PRESUMPTIVE CANDIDATES?

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

NO. THE PRESUMPTIVE CANDIDATES, CLINTON AND TRUMP, ARE BOTH HISTORICALLY LOW. IF YOU LOOK AT NATIONAL POLLING GOING BACK TO JIMMY CARTER, THERE HAS BEEN A FEW CANDIDATES THAT WERE MORE NEGATIVE THAN POSITIVE USUALLY AS WE GOT INTO THE ELECTION IN THE FALL. THESE TWO CANDIDATES ARE BOTH WELL BELOW ANY PREVIOUS CANDIDATES. AND IT’S TRUE NOW OF BOTH PARTIES, NOT JUST ONE. TRUMP’S A BIT BELOW WHERE CLINTON IS RIGHT NOW. AND SO THERE IS A LITTLE DIFFERENCE. BUT BOTH OF THEM SUFFER FROM QUITE NEGATIVE IMAGES IN THE PUBLIC AS A WHOLE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR NUMBERS IN THE PRESIDENTIAL CONTEST. HILLARY CLINTON IS AT 42% AND DONALD TRUMP HAS 35% SUPPORT AMONG REGISTERED VOTERS IN THE STATE. JUST TO THROW BERNIE SANDERS INTO THE MIX FOR COMPARISON, YOUR NUMBERS SHOW HE LEADS OVER DONALD TRUMP 56% TO 31%. SO IS THAT SURPRISING TO YOU?

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

WELL, IT’S NOT SURPRISING IN THAT IT’S THE PATTERN WE’VE SEEN ALL YEAR, BOTH THAT SANDERS IS WELL-LIKED. BETTER THAN THE OTHER TWO AND THAT HE PERFORMS BETTER IN A MATCH-UP AGAINST TRUMP. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE SANDERS’ PEOPLE HAVE POINTED TO THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN AS AN ARGUMENT FOR WHY SANDERS SHOULD BE THE NOMINEE. CLEARLY AT THIS POINT THAT SEEMS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. AND SO IT’S A HYPOTHETICAL POINT. BUT IT IS INTERESTING THAT HE DOES WELL. INTERESTINGLY HE DOES FAIRLY WELL AMONG REPUBLICANS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THAT IS WILD, BUT THAT’S THIS RACE. NOW, THESE NUMBERS AS WE SHOWED ON THE SCREEN ARE REGISTERED VOTERS, BUT YOU HAVE FOUND SOME SHIFTING IN PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY ARE CERTAIN TO VOTE IN NOVEMBER, THOSE ARE THE LIKELY VOTERS. WHAT’S HAPPENED ON BOTH SIDES IN WHO’S LIKELY TO VOTE?

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR RIGHT NOW. REPUBLICANS DROPPED OFF IN THE PERCENT THAT SAID THEY WERE CERTAIN THEY’D VOTE IN THE FALL. THEY’RE DOWN TO 78% NOW, DOWN FROM 87% IN MARCH, AND FOR COMPARISON, IN JUNE OF 2012, THEY WERE AT 90%. SO AS A RESULT MORE REPUBLICANS NOW ARE REGISTERED VOTERS BUT FAIL TO BE LIKELY VOTERS, WHEREAS WITH DEMOCRATS IT WENT UP JUST A SMIDGEN, FROM 81% TO 83%. AS A RESULT, WHAT YOU SEE IS THE MARGIN FOR BOTH PRESIDENT AND SENATE IS TIGHTER AMONG REGISTERED VOTERS, BUT THEN IT OPENS UP A BIT AMONG LIKELY AND IT’S BECAUSE DISCOURAGED REPUBLICANS CONSIDERING NOT VOTING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO LET’S GO AHEAD AND TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE SENATE NUMBERS, AND THIS IS AMONG REGISTERED VOTERS. YOUR POLLING SHOWS RUSS FEINGOLD UP ON SENATOR RON JOHNSON 45% TO 41%, BUT AGAIN WITH LIKELY VOTERS YOUR NUMBERS SHOW THAT IT IS FEINGOLD AT 51% TO JOHNSON AT 42%. SO MY QUESTION IS ALL OF THESE NUMBERS ARE ROCK SOLID, OF COURSE, BUT WHAT NUMBERS ARE MORE LIKELY TO HAPPEN AT THE ACTUAL POLLING PLACE?

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

AND THIS IS A CRITICAL POINT. YOU GO FROM A FOUR-POINT FEINGOLD LEAD TO A NINE-POINT ON THE SENATE FROM A SEVEN TO A NINE FOR THE PRESIDENT, BUT IT’S BECAUSE REPUBLICANS AREN’T SURE THEY’LL VOTE. WHAT THIS SHOWS IS THOSE REPUBLICANS LESS LIKELY TO VOTE ARE NOT REALLY TRUMP FANS AND AS A RESULT HE DOESN’T REALLY FALL OFF THAT MUCH IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE. BUT THESE MAYBE REPUBLICANS ARE PRETTY STRONG FOR RON JOHNSON. BUT WHEN YOU TAKE THEM OUT IN THE LIKELY VOTER SAMPLE, IT REALLY BENEFITS FEINGOLD. WHETHER IT LASTS IS A BIG QUESTION. WE KNOW THAT THE CERTAINTY THAT YOU REALLY WILL VOTE DOES NOT BECOME SOLID UNTIL THE FALL. SO SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER LIKELY VOTER NUMBERS ARE BETTER PREDICTORS OF THE OUTCOME. BUT AT THIS POINT IN THE RACE, REGISTERED VOTERS ARE PRETTY GOOD, AND THESE LIKELY NUMBERS CAN MOVE UP AND DOWN AS CAMPAIGNS MOBILIZE THEIR CANDIDATES OR THEIR VOTERS OR PERHAPS TURN THEM OFF A BIT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

VERY QUICKLY, TO CLOSE REALLY, OUR LAST NUMBERS, YOU HAVE GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER’S APPROVAL RATINGS AND THEY ARE DOWN AGAIN FROM YOUR LAST POLL. NOW 57% DISAPPROVE AND 39% APPROVE. BRIEFLY, IDEAS WHY?

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

WELL, HE HAD BUMPED UP A LITTLE BIT IN THE HEIGHT OF THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY WHEN HE WAS ACTIVELY CAMPAIGNING FOR THE WINNER, TED CRUZ, BUT ALSO IN THE TIME SINCE THEN WE’VE SEEN CONTROVERSY OVER ROLLING $100 MILLION DEBT PAYMENT INTO THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR AND ALSO THE ISSUE OF FUNDING FOR TRANSPORTATION. THESE THINGS HAVE PULLED HIM BACK DOWN TO REALLY WHERE HE’S BEEN FOR THE LAST YEAR OR SO.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE. CHARLES FRANKLIN, THANK YOU.

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW TO A VEXING ISSUE FOR GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS. WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE RISING COST OF HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION, ESPECIALLY AS BUDGET-MANDATED DELAYS ON SEVERAL MAJOR PROJECTS ARE CAUSING EVEN MORE COST OVERRUNS. TAX INCREASES TO ADDRESS HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SHORTFALLS APPARENTLY ARE OFF THE TABLE FOR THE GOVERNOR AND HIS SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION. THE NO NEW TAXES MANTRA FOR HIGHWAY FUNDING IS NOT UNIVERSAL, HOWEVER. WE CHECK IN WITH REPUBLICAN ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ROBIN VOS FOR HIS POSITION ON WHAT TO DO. HE JOINS US FROM BURLINGTON, AND, SPEAKER VOS, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR DOING SO.

ROBIN VOS:

THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON, FRED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT DOES THE STATEMENT DO IN THE ABSENCE OF TAX OR FEE INCREASES?

ROBIN VOS:

WELL, WE’LL DO A LOT OF WHAT WE’VE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST. AS PROBABLY MOST VIEWERS KNOW, IN THE LAST STATE BUDGET WE ORDERED A COMPLETE AUDIT OF THE WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION BECAUSE OUR FIRST PRIORITY IS MAKING SURE ALL THE MONEY WE ACTUALLY COLLECT TODAY IS SPENT EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY. THAT AUDIT WILL COME OUT SOMETIME IN THE FALL AND I ASSUME THERE WILL BE IDEAS TO HELP SAVE MONEY AND WE’LL IMPLEMENT THOSE. I ALSO ASSUME THAT IT WON’T COVER ANYWHERE NEAR THE $600 MILLION ANNUAL DEFICIT THAT WE SEE IN THE TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT WITH THE NEEDS THAT ARE THERE. WE’LL THEN AGAIN LOOK AT THE PRIORITIES. WE CAN’T ALWAYS FUND EVERY SINGLE PROJECT THAT PEOPLE WANT, BUT I’LL CONTINUE TO FOCUS ON REPAIRS AND RECONSTRUCTION OF EXISTING HIGHWAYS AND EXPANSIONS WHERE THEY MAKE SENSE BECAUSE TRAFFIC AND COMMERICE DICTATES THEM. ASSUMING WE STILL HAVE NEEDS AFTER THAT, I JUST DISAGREE FUNDAMENTALLY WITH GOVERNOR WALKER’S ASSUMPTION THAT WE CAN KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD. PUSH DECISIONS ON TO A FUTURE LEGISLATURE WHICH WILL END UP BEING MORE EXPENSIVE AND POTENTIALLY NOT IN THE INTEREST OF TAXPAYERS. MY HOPE IS WE FIND EFFICIENCIES FIRST. PRIORITIZE AFTER THAT. AND IF NEEDS ARE STILL THERE, WE’VE GOT TO LOOK AT RAISING REVENUES. AND WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE PUBLIC ENGAGED IN THAT CONVERSATION TO WORK ON CONVINCING GOVERNOR WALKER THAT IT’S NOT MORE CONSERVATIVE TO BORROW AS OPPOSED TO SPENDING IT SMARTLY NOW.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THE GOVERNOR HAS KIND OF DOUBLED DOWN ON THIS LATE THIS WEEK, SAYING THAT HE WILL NOT RAISE REVENUE TO FIX THE ROADS. HE SAYS THAT IS NOT LEADERSHIP. WHAT’S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

ROBIN VOS:

WELL, LEADERSHIP IS ACTUALLY MAKING HARD DECISIONS. WE’VE DONE THAT EVERY YEAR SINCE REPUBLICANS TOOK OVER IN 2011. WE HAVEN’T KICKED THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD. GOVERNOR WALKER IS VERY FOND OF SAYING THAT NO DECISION SHOULD BE ABOUT THE NEXT ELECTION, BUT THE NEXT GENERATION. AND I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH HIM ON THAT. THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHERE WE DON’T WANT TO KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD AND ALLOW SOME FUTURE LEGISLATURE, SOME FUTURE GOVERNOR TO HAVE TO HAVE EXPANSIONS OF TAXES THAT ARE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN NECESSARY TODAY OR CUT BACK ON SPENDING FOR WHAT WE THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ECONOMIC DRIVER AND THAT’S HAVING A GOOD, WELL-FINANCED TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM STATEWIDE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO, AGAIN, YOU COULD ENVISION A GASOLINE TAX INCREASE OR A FEE INCREASE

ROBIN VOS:

I THINK IT’S POSSIBLE. ONCE AGAIN, AFTER WE WENT THROUGH OUR FIRST TWO STEPS, WHICH IS TO MAKE SURE WE’RE AS EFFICIENT AS WE CAN BE. THAT WE PRIORITIZE OUR SPENDING. AS YOU KNOW I’VE ADVOCATED FOR YEARS TO HAVE A TOLLING SYSTEM ON OUR INTERSTATE SYSTEM SO IT’S A USER FEE BASED PROCESS. THAT’LL TAKE A LITTLE WHILE. SO I THINK ALL OPTIONS SHOULD BE ON THE TABLE. AND I CERTAINLY THINK AS I TALK TO MOST OF MY LEGISLATIVE COLLEAGUES, THEY’RE IN THE SAME PLACE. MY COLLEAGUE JIM STEINEKE WAS RIGHT. RIGID IDEOLOGY WORKS OFTEN, BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FACTS. AND YOU ASK ANY PERSON WATCHING THIS TV SHOW TONIGHT, DRIVE IN YOUR LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD, YOUR LOCAL CITY, ON A COUNTY HIGHWAY OR ANYWHERE IN THE STATE AND YOU’LL SEE THAT THE NEEDS FOR TRANSPORTATION ARE REAL AND THEY ARE UNMET. SO OUR JOB AS LEGISLATORS IS TO LEAD WHICH SOMETIMES MEANS EXPLAINING TO THE PUBLIC WHY MORE REVENUE IS NECESSARY AND THAT’S WHAT I THINK A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL DO FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT FOR BORROWING, INTEREST RATES ARE EXTREMELY LOW RIGHT NOW AND THAT MIGHT MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE?

ROBIN VOS:

WELL ONCE AGAIN WE BORROWED IN THE LAST BUDGET LESS THAN GOVERNOR WALKER REQUESTED. AND I’M CERTAINLY NOT OPPOSED TO SOME BORROWING. BUT BORROWING WITHOUT A METHOD TO PAY FOR IT OVER TIME CERTAINLY ISN’T PRUDENT. IT DOESN’T MATTER IF INTEREST RATES ARE FREE. IF YOU CAN’T PAY BACK THE MONEY YOU’RE ACTUALLY BORROWING. WE’RE GETTING RAPIDLY TO THAT POINT. OUR INTEREST PAYMENTS AND PRINCIPAL EATS UP A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE REVENUE THAT WE ALREADY GENERATE. SO WE’RE KIND OF AT THE POINT WHERE WE REALLY SHOULDN’T DO MUCH MORE OF THAT TO BE SUSTAINABLE. THAT’S WHY WE’RE AT THAT CRUCIAL POINT TO SAY EITHER WE HAVE TO DRAMATICALLY SCALE BACK ROADS AND ALLOW POTHOLES TO FORM WHICH ULTIMATELY COSTS CONSUMERS MORE WITH DAMAGE TO THEIR CAR AND DELAYS OR WE HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT REVENUE INCREASES TO PAY FOR WHAT WE NEED AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ACTUALLY GET IT DONE IN AN EFFICIENT WAY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT HAPPENS IF THE LEGISLATURE REACHES AN ACCORD ON INCREASING GAS TAXES OR FEES AND THE GOVERNOR VETOES IT? CAN YOU WORK WITH DEMOCRATS TO GET A VETO APPROVED MAJORITY ON THIS?

ROBIN VOS:

WELL WE’RE NOT EVEN TO THAT POINT YET. I GUESS I’M AN OPTIMIST THAT I THINK GOVERNOR WALKER WILL BEGIN TO LOOK AT THE OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT STATEWIDE FOR A SIMPLE IDEA, WHICH IS TO FIX THE ROADS, AND BECOME AN ADVOCATE WHERE WE CAN WORK WITH HIM TO FIND A SOLUTION. I ALSO KNOW THAT THIS IS A BIPARTISAN SOLUTION AND I ALSO AM VERY CONFIDENT THAT AS WE GO FORWARD, GOVERNOR WALKER IS OPEN TO CHANGING HIS MIND IF THE FACTS ARE THERE. I THINK WE HAVE PLENTY OF STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT WHERE WE ARE IS THE RIGHT PLACE AND I DON’T INTEND TO PASS A STATE BUDGET THAT DOESN’T ACTUALLY FIX THIS PROBLEM.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. WE LEAVE IT THERE. SPEAKER ROBIN VOS, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

ROBIN VOS:

THANKS, FREDERICA.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IN AN EDITORIAL LATE THIS WEEK GOVERNOR WALKER SAID QUOTE MAINTENANCE OF EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE WILL BE THE PRIORITY, NOT SPENDING BILLIONS ON NEW HIGHWAY PROJECTS. THAT’S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT. NEXT WEEK, THE LONG-AWAITED VOTE ON THE PART OF EIGHT GREAT LAKES GOVERNORS TO DECIDE WHETHER TO ALLOW THE CITY OF WAUKESHA TO DIVERT LAKE MICHIGAN WATER. UNTIL THEN, THANKS FOR JOINING US. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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