Here & Now

Congresswoman Gwen Moore Speaks to Government Shutdown

Frederica Freyberg:
At week’s end, a southern border wall continues to be the barrier between Congress and the White House to end the partial shutdown. A shutdown that went prime time this week. President Trump continued his appeal for a border wall from the Oval Office on national TV Tuesday night. We hear now from Fourth District Representative Democrat Gwen Moore. She calls the president’s repeated request for a border wall “tantrums” that have forced the nation into political and economic chaos. Congresswoman Moore joins us now from Washington.

Gwen Moore:
Thanks for having me, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:
You’re welcome. Thanks for being here. Now the House has been the midst of passing bills to fund agencies. How are those bills being received by the Senate?

Gwen Moore:
Well, that’s the problem. They’re not being received by the Senate. I mean, we’re — the Congress, including the Senate and the House, are coequal branches of government with the Supreme Court and with the president. And the only power vested in us is to actually pass these bills, send them to the president’s desk and then he can dispose of them in the way that he sees fit. He can either sign them or veto them. But we’re exercising our power of the purse to fund the government and get the government open.

Frederica Freyberg:
Meanwhile, what’s your reaction to diverting disaster aid to fund the wall?

Gwen Moore:
It just really speaks to the dysfunction of this decision. You know, to determine that building a wall, which is supported by none of the nine Congressional members whose districts border Mexico, including Will Hurd, a Republican, former CIA operative. It’s just bizarre. That’s the only adjective I can think of.

Frederica Freyberg:
Has this just not become a political game of chicken, with livelihoods caught in the middle now?

Gwen Moore:
No. It’s not a political game. This is the legislative process. This bill was negotiated when I was in the minority in the House of Representatives. It was negotiated in the House of Representatives. It was passed in the United States Senate. Republicans were in charge. And from my recollection, it was passed by voice vote, which meant that 100 United States Senators agreed on this bill. Paul Ryan, then Speaker of the House, was about to put it on the floor. And Rush Limbaugh — and if they’re any games, it’s from those outsiders. He was about to put it on the bill. It had been agreed upon as this is the way we operate. Paul Ryan was seen sprinting to the White House and then wouldn’t put it on the floor without the border wall language in Appropriations.

Frederica Freyberg:
Yeah. At this point, why won’t Dems relent on the wall in order to reopen the government?

Gwen Moore:
Well, Frederica, just let me say it wouldn’t necessarily reopen the government. First of all, this $5.7 billion bill is only a down payment on a wall. I’ve heard estimates. The lowest estimate I’ve heard for such a wall, is about $30 billion and probably closer to a $60 billion wall. Who is to say that once we relent, to use your terms, and provide the $5.7 billion, that next month he won’t blackmail us into giving him something else that he wants? This is not — we had a revolution over this, Frederica. We don’t have a king. We have a guy over there in the White House, maybe someday a woman, but right now we have some guy over in the White House who’s supposed to receive bills from Congress and either sign them or veto them. And he short-circuited the process. I’m coming in here every single day voting to open the federal government up. And Mitch McConnell, who had 100 votes, 100 out of 100, do the math, votes for this very same bill, won’t put it on the floor. He is the one who’s abdicating his responsibilities to citizens and to workers, to small businesses, to large swaths of people who are being affected by this shutdown. He’s the one, yes.

Frederica Freyberg:
You were asking constituents for their shutdown stories. What have you heard?

Gwen Moore:
Oh, my god. I have heard so many shutdown stories. Things that I hadn’t even thought about. I mean, number one, these employees are not making federal contributions toward their retirement when they don’t receive a paycheck. And so therefore, they are not getting the federal share of those retirement funds. And the way that they could be treated if they are withdrawing, taking early — getting penalties for early withdrawals. Right in Wisconsin, we hear about Sheila. Sheila, unfortunately the end of last year, was in a car accident. Thank god she was okay. She took the sick time that she was — to which she was entitled, took a little extra time for healing, thinking that, you know, I could get back to work with the IRS. And now is furloughed. And so even if she is called back, she’ll be called back with no reserve savings, because she used them up for her own personal needs, medical needs, and now is going to have to figure out how to get gas to get to work for her car, to pay her car note, without any savings.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Congresswoman Moore, we need to leave it there. Thanks very much for joining us.

Gwen Moore:
Nice to have you. Happy New Year.