Here & Now

Internal Reorganization Of DNR Could Ease Permit Review

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

MORE WORK AND FEWER PEOPLE TO DO IT. THAT’S WHAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES FACES DOWN EVERY DAY. SO AFTER A YEAR OF TAKING A LOOK AT HOW TO PRIORITIZE RESOURCES, THE DNR THIS WEEK CAME OUT WITH A REORGANIZATION PLAN FOR THE AGENCY. DNR SECRETARY CATHY STEPP JOINS US FROM UW-PARKSIDE TO EXPLAIN IT. SECRETARY IS, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

CATHY STEPP:

OH, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WELL, SO PEOPLE ARE LIKELY CONCERNED THAT THIS REORGANIZATION, AS YOU CALL IT, STRATEGIC ALIGNMENT, WILL WEAKEN ENVIRONMENTAL OR CONSERVATION STANDARDS, BUT YOU ASSURE IT WILL NOT. DESCRIBE WHY IT WON’T.

CATHY STEPP:

WELL REALLY WHAT THIS IS JUST ABOUT IS ABOUT A PRIORITIZATION OF OUR RESOURCES, BOTH HUMAN RESOURCES AND FISCAL RESOURCES. IT’S NOT A SECRET THAT WE’VE SEEN DWINDLING SUPPLY OF BOTH. OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS, WE’VE SEEN JUST ABOUT A 20% DECREASE ESPECIALLY IN THE HUMAN RESOURCES SIDE. SO WE REALLY HAVE TO FIND A WAY, JUST LIKE THE PRIVATE SECTOR DOES, TO DO THINGS BETTER, MORE EFFICIENTLY AND TAKE OPPORTUNITIES WHERE WE CAN TO LEAN MORE ON EXPERTISE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WHILE STILL RETAINING OUR IMPORTANT REGULATORY FUNCTIONS. I DO WANT TO ASSURE EVERYBODY THERE’S NOTHING IN THIS PLAN THAT ROLLS BACK OR WEAKENS OR LOOSENS ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS OR STANDARDS. IT’S NOT ABOUT THAT. IT’S ABOUT HOW WE DO THE BUSINESS WE DO, NOT THE ACTUAL WHAT IT IS THAT’S GETTING DONE ON THE GROUND.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HOW DO THESE CHANGES ADDRESS CONCERNS RAISED IN A RECENT AUDIT CRITICAL OF THE DNR FOR ITS BACKLOG IN WASTEWATER PROGRAM AND FOR THINGS INCLUDING LARGE FARMS AS WELL AS A SMALL NUMBER OF VIOLATION NOTICES GIVEN?

CATHY STEPP:

THIS WAS REALLY ONE OF THE FRONT BURNER CONCERNS THAT WE HAD, WAS THAT THAT PARTICULAR PROGRAM WAS UNDER-FUNDED, UNDERSTAFFED. THIS ALIGNMENT EFFORT THAT WE’VE JUT GONE THROUGH HAS ALLOWED US TO REALLOCATE SOME OF THE RESOURCES WE HAD IN OTHER AREAS SO WE COULD PUT THEM TO MORE HIGH-PRIORITY URGENT NEEDS THAT WE HAD ON THE GROUND. SO WE CAN GET ACTUAL FEET IN THE BOOTS ON THE GROUND. SO THAT’S HELPED US DO THAT. BY AGAIN JUST LIKE YOU LOOK AT WHAT’S THE POT OF MONEY THAT YOU’VE GOT AVAILABLE TO YOU, WHAT LIMITATIONS ARE THERE TO THOSE POTS OF MONEY BECAUSE WE HAVE LOTS OF STRINGS ATTACHED TO THOSE. AND LUCKILY THROUGH THIS EFFORT, THROUGH EVERY LEVEL OF STAFF THAT WAS INVOLVED AS WELL AS EXTERNAL INPUT THAT WE TOOK FROM PEOPLE WHO WE SERVE, WHICH IS EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD WHO LIVES HERE, WORKS HERE, PLAYS HERE OR MAKES ANYTHING HERE IS OUR CUSTOMER. SO WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO ANSWER TO. BUT THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO GIVE US MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO GET OUT FROM UNDER FLUORESCENT LIGHTS, OUT OF THE CUBICLES, ONTO THE FIELD AND MAKING SURE THAT OUR FOLKS ARE DOING THE WORK TO MAKE SURE THERE’S COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT THE PERMITS ARE WRITTEN TO SAY. THAT’S THE BEST SERVICE WE CAN PROVIDE TO THE PUBLIC IS MAKE SURE WE’RE OUT THERE, THINGS ARE GETTING DONE RIGHT ON THE GROUND AND THIS PLAN IS GOING TO GET US THERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

STILL, ALL OF THAT SAID, DO YOU WISH YOU HAD A BIGGER POT OF MONEY TO WORK WITH?

CATHY STEPP:

I DON’T KNOW ANY AGENT SECRETARY THAT WOULDN’T WISH FOR MORE MONEY. BUT WE JUST DON’T HAVE THAT LUXURY. AND FRANKLY THE PRIVATE SECTOR GOES THROUGH THIS ALL THE TIME. ALL HEALTHY, DYNAMIC ORGANIZATIONS GO THROUGH REGULAR REVIEWING OF WHAT IT IS THAT THEY’VE GOT AVAILABLE TO THEM. WHAT ARE THE EXPECTATIONS OF THEIR CUSTOMERS? WHAT ARE THEIR PRICE POINTS AND THEN THEY ADJUST THEIR OPERATIONS ACCORDINGLY. WE HAVE A REAL RESPONSIBILITY TO DO THAT FOR TAXPAYERS IN WISCONSIN, TO MAKE SURE THE INVESTMENT THAT TAXPAYERS, LICENSE PAYERS, PERMIT APPLICANTS ARE PAYING ARE RETURNING THE BEST POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, BENEFIT TO ALL OF THOSE USERS. AND THAT MEANS THAT INSTEAD OF SHUFFLING PAPERS AND CHECKING BOXES, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THE RIGHT THINGS ARE BEING DONE OUT ON THE GROUND. AND THAT’S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT IT’S ABOUT PRIORITIZING THAT, BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS WITH PRODUCERS OF ALL KINDS, ACROSS ALL INDUSTRIES AND MAKING SURE WE’RE GETTING THE JOB DONE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

PART OF YOUR REORGANIZATION CALLS FOR A NEW WAY OF PERMITTING LARGE ANIMAL FARMS THAT GENERATE WATER-POLLUTING MANURE. YOU CALL FOR ALLOWING PRIVATE CONSULTANTS TO WRITE PERMIT APPLICATIONS FOR FARMERS. WHAT ROLE DOES THE DNR THEN PLAY IN PERMITTING THESE LARGE ANIMAL OPERATIONS AND IN APPROVING THEIR SO-CALLED NUTRIENT MANAGEMENT PLANS?

CATHY STEPP:

SO WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT DOING IS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE’VE BEEN DOING IN WISCONSIN FOR OVER TEN YEARS NOW. WE’VE GOT A PROGRAM CALLED THE WETLAND DELINEATOR ASSURANCE PROGRAM. TO WHERE WE’VE GOT CREDENTIALED PROFESSIONALS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WHO HAVE LOTS OF TECHNICAL TRAINING FOR THIS TYPE OF WORK WHO ACTUALLY GO OUT AND MAP OUT WETLANDS FOR EXAMPLE. THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH A RIGOROUS PROCESS OF APPROVAL AT WISCONSIN DNR BEFORE THEY CAN GET ON THAT LIST. WHEN WE GET THOSE APPLICATIONS IN, IT DOESN’T TAKE AS MUCH TIME TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE THOUSANDS OF PAGES, WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT NUTRIENT MANAGEMENT PLANS, FOR EXAMPLE, TO BE ABLE TO BE ASSURED THAT THE WORK THEY’RE DOING WE CAN RELY UPON WHEN WE WRITE THE PERMITS. SO THIS ISN’T ABOUT PRODUCERS WRITING THEIR OWN PERMITS. IT’S NOT ABOUT THEM WRITING THEIR OWN REGULATIONS OR STANDARDS. THIS IS ABOUT SOME OF THE MORE HEAVY-DUTY, TECHNICAL PAPERWORK SIDE OF THINGS GETTING DONE BY PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE VERY WELL EDUCATED AND CREDENTIALED TO DO THAT. WE’VE DONE THAT WITH WETLANDS IN THE PAST IN 10 YEARS. WE’RE LOOKING TO KIND OF MIRROR THAT PROGRAM. WE’LL BE DOING SPOT AUDITS AND REGULAR CHECK-INS TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE CALCULATIONS ARE BEING DONE CORRECTLY. BUT THE REGULATORY FUNCTION DOES NOT LEAVE WISCONSIN DNR. SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT CAN APPROVE OR DENY A PERMIT APPLICATION. IT’S JUST ONE CHUNK OF THAT APPLICATION CAN BE DONE BETTER IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, FREEING UP MY STAFF TO GET OUTSIDE, ON THE GROUND TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE RULES ARE BEING FOLLOWED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THERE WAS AN OUTCRY WHEN THE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STAFFING WAS CUT BY MORE THAN 30%. WHAT DOES YOUR STRATEGIC REALIGNMENT DO WITH DNR SCIENTISTS GOING FORWARD?

CATHY STEPP:

ONE THING I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY, OUR AGENCY IS FULL OF SCIENTISTS. WE’VE GOT BIOLOGISTS, GEOLOGISTS, HYDRO-GEOLOGISTS ALL THROUGHOUT THE DEPARTMENT. THE PORTION THAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT IS OUR RESEARCH DIVISION, TO WHERE WE’RE ACTUALLY DOING RESEARCH IN DIFFERENT AREAS. AND THE LEGISLATURE IN THE LAST BUDGET GO-AROUND DECIDED WE HAD MORE RESEARCHERS THAN WHAT THEY FELT WE NEEDED. AND SO WHAT WE HAD TO DO AGAIN IS TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT’S THE ACTUAL WORK THAT’S BEING DONE AND HOW CAN WE BETTER STREAMLINE THE WORK THAT OUR MANAGERS AND OUR SCIENTISTS OUT ON THE GROUND NEED TO HAVE DONE, THOSE QUESTIONS THAT THEY NEED ANSWERED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF MANAGEMENT. SO THAT’S WHAT WE’VE DONE NOW. WE’VE ALIGNED SOME OF THOSE RESEARCH PROFESSIONALS INTO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE DEPARTMENT SO THEY CAN BETTER WORK IN SYNC WITH THE MANAGERS THAT ARE OUT ON THE GROUND WITH THEIR PARTNERS. SO THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR BETTER COMMUNICATION, BETTER ANSWERS COMING TO US QUICKER ON SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE’RE FACING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. SECRETARY CATHY STEPP, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

CATHY STEPP:

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.