Here & Now

Former Sen. Tim Cullen Discusses New Book On WI Politics

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

FORMER DEMOCRATIC STATE SENATOR TIM CULLEN IS OUT WITH A NEW BOOK TITLED “RINGSIDE SEAT: WISCONSIN POLITICS, 1970S TO SCOTT WALKER”. CULLEN WAS AMONG THE WISCONSIN 14 – SENATE DEMOCRATS WHO LEFT FOR ILLINOIS IN THE MIDST OF THE ACT 10 ACTION IN 2011. GOING BACK HE WAS ALSO IN REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR TOMMY THOMPSON’S CABINET. IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AS AN INSURANCE EXECUTIVE AND BEFORE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY LEADER IN THE SENATE. BOTTOM LINE, HE HAS SEEN IT ALL. CULLEN RETURNED TO THE SENATE THE SAME YEAR GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER WAS ELECTED. AND AS THE TITLE OF HIS NEW BOOK SUGGESTS, HAD A RINGSIDE SEAT TO WHAT HE CALLS A NEW KIND OF GOVERNING. SENATOR TIM CULLEN JOINS US NOW. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

TIM CULLEN:

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IN YOUR BOOK YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE GOVERNOR WALKER CAME OUT OF THE CHUTES WITH ACT 10 NOT AS A WAY TO FIX THE BUDGET BUT WITH AN EYE EVEN THEN ON THE WHITE HOUSE.

TIM CULLEN:

I BELIEVE THAT. I DON’T KNOW THAT. I CAN’T GET INSIDE HIS HEAD, BUT I THINK ONCE HE GOT THE NATIONAL ATTENTION THAT WENT WITH THE WHOLE ACT 10 TURMOIL, I BELIEVE THAT’S WHERE HIS SIGHTS WENT RIGHT AWAY. AND I THINK IT’S WHY HE WASN’T INTERESTED IN ANY KIND OF A COMPROMISE IN ACT 10 BECAUSE THAT WOULD HAVE NOT HELPED THE NATIONAL IMAGE OF ‘I DON’T NEGOTIATE.’

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO HAVING SEEN IT ALL, AS WE SAY, HOW DIFFERENT IS STATE GOVERNMENT PARTICULARLY IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAN IT WAS WITH PREVIOUS GOVERNORS?

TIM CULLEN:

WELL IT’S VERY DIFFERENT. I HAVE A WHOLE CHAPTER ON THE 12 PREDECESSORS TO GOVERNOR WALKER GOING BACK TO WALTER KOEHLER IN THE 50s. THEY ALL GOVERNED SORT OF ONE WAY OR THE OTHER NEAR THE CENTER. THE REPUBLICANS GOVERNED CENTER RIGHT. DEMOCRATS CENTER LEFT AND I BELIEVE THAT’S WHERE WISCONSIN IS AT. AND GOVERNOR WALKER SORT OF THREW OUT THAT JUDGMENT OF THE PREVIOUS 12 AND GOVERNED ONLY FROM THE RIGHT. THAT’S THE HUGE CHANGE BETWEEN GOVERNOR WALKER AND HIS PREDECESSORS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HOW AND WHY DID THAT HAPPEN?

TIM CULLEN:

PART OF IT WAS HE HAD THE MOST CONSERVATIVE LEGISLATURE THAN ANY PREVIOUS REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR EVER HAD. SO IT WAS EASY TO PULL THIS LEGISLATURE TO THE RIGHT WITH HIM. I THINK WISCONSIN POLITICS BETWEEN MY TWO TENURES THERE HAD BECOME FAR MORE PARTISAN AND DIVISIVE. HE CAPITALIZED ON IT. BUT A LOT OF THE GROUND WORK HAD BEEN LAID. FOR EXAMPLE, WEAC – THE TEACHER’S UNION – USED TO ENDORSE SOME REPUBLICANS BACK IN THE 70S. AND WMC, THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE USED TO STAY OUT OF CERTAIN RACES BECAUSE THEY AGREED WITH THE DEMOCRATS. THEY DIDN’T NECESSARILY ENDORSE A DEMOCRAT. WELL BY 2010, THOSE TWO GROUPS WHO WERE THE POWERHOUSES IN A LOT OF WAYS, ONE WAS WMC WAS ALL IN WITH REPUBLICANS AND WEAC WAS ALL IN WITH THE DEMOCRATS. THAT’S AN ERA THAT ALL THAT WORKED TO THE ADVANTAGE OF THE GOVERNOR GOING TO THE RIGHT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IN YOUR BOOK YOU DETAIL NOT JUST ACT 10 BUT OTHER MEASURES THAT REPUBLICAN MAJORITY HAS BEEN ABLE TO PASS. ASIDE FROM THE CURTAILMENT OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING IN ACT 10, WHAT STANDS OUT AS AN EXAMPLE OF THE NEW WAY OF DOING BUSINESS AT THE CAPITOL?

TIM CULLEN:

I WOULD SAY THE MINING BILL. I HAVE A WHOLE CHAPTER ON THE MINING BILL. IT SHOWS THAT THEY NO LONGER ARE INTERESTED IN A COMPROMISE OF ANY KIND WITH THE MINORITY PARTY. YOU CAN SEE THAT ON SOME ISSUES WHERE THEY ARE THE MAJORITY SO THEY WANT TO DO IT THEIR WAY. MINING AND THE ENVIRONMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, PARTICULARLY THE ENVIRONMENT, HAD ALWAYS BEEN A BIPARTISON ISSUE IN WISCONSIN OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. GOVERNOR KNOWLES BACK IN THE 60S WAS A BIG ENVIRONMENTALIST. HE WAS A HUNTER AND A FISHERMAN. AND SO THAT ISSUE SHOWED THAT THERE WAS NO INTEREST IN COMPROMISE. IT ALSO BROUGHT INTO PLAY THE BIG MONEY, THE SECRET MONEY THAT THE MINING COMPANY BROUGHT INTO WISCONSIN POLITICS, WHICH IS A WHOLE OTHER PROBLEM ACROSS THE BOARD BUT SHOWED UP SPECIFICALLY IN THE MINING BILL. AND WE HAVE A VERY BAD ENVIRONMENTAL BILL ON THE BOOKS NOW BECAUSE OF THAT. AND NO MINING. WHICH I’M HAPPY ABOUT, FRANKLY. I DON’T THINK WE SHOULD EVER MINE THE PENOKEE HILLS. I’M NOT JUST AGAINST ALL MINING BUT I CERTAINLY DON’T THINK WE SHOULD MINE IN THE PENOKEE HILLS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOU CALL SCOTT WALKER QUOTE THE MOST PRIVATE, SECRETIVE GOVERNORSHIP IN AT LEAST 65 YEARS. BUT MAYBE THAT’S THE SENSE OF DEMOCRATS LIKE BY YOURSELF WHO AREN’T IN HIS INNER CIRCLE?

TIM CULLEN:

WELL, I’M CERTAINLY NOT — I PLEAD GUILTY TO ALL THAT. BUT OTHER GOVERNORS, ALL THE OTHER GOVERNORS WOULD PARK OUT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE CAPITOL AND WALK IN THE DOOR OF THE CAPITOL ON THE GROUND FLOOR AND WALK UP TO THEIR OFFICE OR TAKE THE ELEVATOR AND CITIZENS COULD SEE HIM AND SAY HELLO. THIS GOVERNOR NEVER DOES THAT. HE NEVER COMES IN THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR OF THE CAPITOL. IT MAY BE A LITTLE THING BUT IT TELLS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIM. HE DOESN’T HAVE TOWN HALL MEETINGS WHERE THE GENERAL PUBLIC, GENERAL CITIZENS COULD COME TO A COMMUNITY AND TALK WITH HIM AND EXPRESS POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE VIEWS ABOUT HIM. HE GOES TO CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS ALL THE TIME. THAT’S WHY IT’S SO PRIVATE AND SECRETIVE. HE GOES TO USUALLY A BUSINESS WHERE THEY CONTROL WHO CAN COME IN INCLUDING WHAT MEDIA CAN COME IN. AND THE AUDIENCE IS A BUNCH OF WORKERS AT THAT COMPANY WHO HAVE THEIR BOSS STANDING THERE. WHICH ONE OF THOSE WORKERS IS GOING TO SAY GOVERNOR — THEY KNOW THEIR BOSS LIKES THE GOVERNOR OR HE WOULDN’T BE AT THAT BUSINESS.

WHICH WORKER’S GONNA SAY IN FRONT OF HIS BOSS “GOVERNOR I THINK YOU’RE ABSOLUTELEY WRONG ON A, B, C, D.” SO THAT’S WHAT I MEAN. NO TOWN HALL MEETINGS. CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS ALWAYS WHEN HE MEETS WITH. IF YOU’RE JUST WATCHING TV YOU SEE THE GOVERNOR TALKING TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE AND IT LOOKS OKAY. BUT IT’S VERY, VERY STRUCTURED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

VERY BRIEFLY WITH ONLY ABOUT A HALF MINUTE LEFT, YOU SAY YOU HAVE OPTIMISM FOR THE FUTURE. WHY?

TIM CULLEN:

BASICALLY FOR TWO REASONS. THE YOUNGER GENERATION, THOSE PARTICULARLY UNDER 40 I THINK IS THE MOST TOLERANT GENERATION IN OUR NATION’S HISTORY. AND I THINK THEY’RE GOING TO BE GREAT LEADERS AS THEY MOVE ON UP THE LADDER IN BUSINESS AND GOVERNMENT. AND SECONDLY BESIDES THEM THE INTERNET. THE INTERNET I THINK IS THE GREAT EQUALIZER IN TERMS OF RAISING MONEY. YOU CAN RAISE LOTS OF MONEY IN SMALL CONTRIBUTIONS TO TRY TO BALANCE OFF AGAINST THE BIG PRIVATE MONEY. I THINK THOSE TWO THINGS GIVE ME HOPE. ALSO, WE WISCONSINITES HAVE A LOT IN COMMON FROM THE PACKERS, LIKE LAST NIGHT, TO HUNTING, TO FISH FRYS, ETC. AND I DON’T THINK WE AS A STATE WANT TO STAY ANGRILY DIVIDED. I THINK WE’RE TIRED OF IT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THANKS VERY MUCH.

TIM CULLEN:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.